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New information regarding PTO in GB Series

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How about this for carrier ops:

 

 

 

Korea! Go, go, go Jason :)

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited by 56RAF_Talisman
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19 hours ago, pfrances said:

 

Seen the teaser videos. Game engine is showing its age.

I am reinstalling trackir and park my vr when 5.0 come myself. 

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54 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

How about this for carrier ops:

 

 

 

Korea! Go, go, go Jason :)

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

Korea DLC would be nice also, i hoped they gona try it together with main ww2 DLC (like they did with FC and TC) but it seams that 3 DLC at same time was hard task. I dont see them just doing Korea DLC and not WW2 DLC at same time, so maybe Korea on end of all ww2 options.

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15 hours ago, Southernbear said:

But I would say there is a good chunk that is probably just looking more for the Allied planes

 

Personally, I'm more interested in Japanese aircraft.

  

13 hours ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

tbh PTO planes are ugliest

 

This is very subjective. For example some people here find Hurricane ugly, but for me it's quite beautiful plane. Regarding the PTO planes, to me most Allied PTO aircraft are ugly, but Japanese planes are beautiful.

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On 1/28/2020 at 2:13 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Does this really need to be explained? Because it would have absolutely no use for single-player gameplay, outside of quick-mission shoot-em-ups. 

yet people will buy it, at least I feel that...

I refuse to believe most of customers aka players of IL2 care THAT much about historical accuracy.

I wish the "I play IL2 1946 because it has more planes available" mentality ends, but that's not possible with the current content (high quality but low quantity).

 

Edit: anyway, as Dakpilot said, it's better for devs and even for us, if they just focus on creating things that expands/complements what we already have.. He is totally right there I guess.

Edited by ME-BFMasserME262
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By this point, I really don’t care what Battle in the Pacific the devs decide to do first, just as long as it’s in the PTO.

 

Wish the devs luck on this.🙂

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Since I have been waiting for a new Pacific simulation for like...ages...I am keen to wait a few more years for it since my lifetime isn't bound to run out all too soon.

 

Although I would also be very happy if things that could be done would be done in the meantime like the A6M. But in the end this is up to the developers and I think this decision to hold to their standards is fully right. Just because it is unlikely that a product already off the shelves is completely redone when a new technology comes across the way that allows for things not possible today.

 

Even if people say they would be ok with "educated guesses" regarding flight model. One would say "oh this is too fast imo" the other would say "oh this is too slow imo" so in the end it would only lead to discussions and complaints about bias and inaccuratenesses.

 

When I was a child I read books of Soviet pilots that served in the Chinese war against Japan as volunteers. So if a decision would be made to include a Japanese plane one could "easily"  (I know it is a lot of work) recreate the classic Stalingrad or Kuban style maps and battles without immediately developing an entire Pacific scenario around it.

 

But still this would leave the problems we have now. No sufficient info (or translation) on planes like the A5M, G3M or B5N to fill the skies over China with. But at least one could repurpose the I-16, U-2 and P-40 for a far east scenario. And...well...the I-16 against the Type 96 would be a new quality of gameplay since even in early war scenarios the I-16 against the Bf109 is just mobbing.

 

But I keep my hopes high that some time I open the IL2 store and see red circles and blue painted planes.

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Well, the research needed is one thing, and a tremendous task, i gather. Another challenge, I think, would be creating a somewhat balanced game that is fun to play. I do realise war is never balanced, as this is obviously not intended.

 

To my knowledge, the Japanese planes would be vastly superior from '41 to '43 where things suddenly turned 180 degrees when the Hellcats, the Corsairs and the P-51s arrived.

 

Ki-84 vs P-51D sounds like fun though.

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Don't forget the "George" N1K2.  It was also a quite modern design, and it's automatic combat flaps were one of the earliest, if not the first, implementations of "fly by wire" technology.

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A spectre is haunting 1C. The spectre of PTO. The history of flight simulation is the history of the blue ocean. Simmers of the world unite. We have nothing to lose but our chains.

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Funny, waaaaay back in the good ole original IL-2 days (before Forgotten Battles), I was slightly downhearted that such a game of hitherto unmatched quality wasn't about the Battle of Britain and the Western Front. I grew up with Guy Hamilton's 1969 BoB, Piece of Cake and Aces High, not to mention Hollywood, you know.

 

However, the original IL-2 series inspired me to read up on that theater of operations, and now I really appreciate BoS, BoM and BoK. I guess, for a Westerner, the Eastern Front is an acquired taste.

 

🙂

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14 hours ago, Guster said:

Funny, waaaaay back in the good ole original IL-2 days (before Forgotten Battles), I was slightly downhearted that such a game of hitherto unmatched quality wasn't about the Battle of Britain and the Western Front. I grew up with Guy Hamilton's 1969 BoB, Piece of Cake and Aces High, not to mention Hollywood, you know.

 

However, the original IL-2 series inspired me to read up on that theater of operations, and now I really appreciate BoS, BoM and BoK. I guess, for a Westerner, the Eastern Front is an acquired taste.

 

🙂

 

I know that feeling. I (as a European Westerner) read the books my father had about Soviet pilot memoirs. But at the same time I grew up with the game "Aces of the Pacific" which really got me into flight simulation and the history of the Pacific theatre. So the Pacific came to be my main interest with the Eastern front and BoB having a significantly lower priority.

 

Then there came the old IL2 with Pacific fighters as the part I played mostly. And then there came the "new" IL2 which in its Early access state made me lose my interest in combat flight simulations for a few years.

 

Only after the U-2 as collector plane did my interest rise again as I observed a significant change in variety of my interests regarding the different theatres. 20 years ago all that counted for me were the famous planes like the SBD, F6F, F4U and so on. Now I really came to appreciate the theatres and planes that are not featured everywhere in popular culture. For example I would be overly happy with a Spanish Civil War scenario or a pre-WW2 Asian setting with pre-Zero fighters like the Claude fighting against I-16 and early Kate models or Ki-30 roaming the skies above rivers attacking river boats.

 

A thing a few years ago I did not care about at all and knew nothing about. The U-2 made me buy a book of one of the "Night Witches" and read it and now I am even more eager to engage on the side of the Soviets in IL2 whereas before I almost always played on the German side. 

 

This game really is a relevant factor in the cognitive evolution when one is really interested in the matter.

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I was a Great Patriotic War junkie from my youth. My two greatest surprises were finding a board game that featured Soviets (Squad Leader), and then when the first IL-2 came out. I've also always love the PTO, but there's always been so much of it compared, at least here in the US.

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19 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Don't forget the "George" N1K2.  It was also a quite modern design, and it's automatic combat flaps were one of the earliest, if not the first, implementations of "fly by wire" technology.

 

Absolute favorite, would take it over any other Japanese fighter. 

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I was thinking that as much as I would like PTO and the Japanese plane set, I would love the US planeset just as much. Give me an SBD, an F4F, an F6F, and a F4U (especially) in the ETO as a fantasy and I would be very very happy and not care it was a fantasy, unlike a Meteor campaign or a Ho229.

Edited by cardboard_killer

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6 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

Give me an SBD, an F4F, an F6F, and a F4U (especially) in the ETO as a fantasy and I would be very very happy and not care it was a fantasy

 

It is not really fantasy, though.

 

Wildcats (Martlets), Hellcats and Corsairs were used over Norway and in the MTO, and they did fight with the classic German fighters like the Bf 109. Norway in particular could be a quite interesting scenario.

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On 1/28/2020 at 3:29 AM, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

An A6M2 Modell 21 and perhaps an A6M3 Modell 32 together with a generic south east pacific island map as a bundle - i would buy it!

 

A Grumman fighter would be nice , but we have already enough enemies wich fought these early Zeros:

Hurricane over Singapore

P-40E everywhere

Spitfire V over Darwin

P-39L everywhere

dont forget the p-38

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i dont forgott it, but for a Model 21 our P-38 is a little bit late, for that a Model 52 would be better.

But that are only dreams - will not become true

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Quite sad too hear it is postponed again. For me there is nothing I am waiting for more than PTO in Il2.

 

Some are wondering why are people mostly writing about Japanese aircraft and hardly anyone mentions US machines, I think it is linked to current in game roster of allied planes being much more interesting than numerous variations of BF109 and FW + few other planes. Maybe it is my personal thing but I do not get hyped anymore hearing there will be next BF/FW version, as we already have tons of them. I understand that modification require much less work than completely new plane but most importantly it is also much less entertaining than the new plane. Regarding fidelity, I want the planes to behave as close as it is possible to real ones but I think it is worth to mention that most likely I would not be able to tell the difference (except for the exterior visuals/armament) if the would be entirely fake.

 

PTO for me is not only the planes but (maybe mainly) the setting, the ocean, the Sun, the islands, the ships, I would not even need to start off the carriers, starting from the airport surrounded by the jungle/sand/water would be as nice. Different setting should also make it possible to create some new ops, or at least use them more often like missions against ships, escorting some of friendly boats, combination of water + land targets etc. It does not have to be Coral Sea or Midway, I would also be very happy with already mentioned The Papua and New Guinea Campaign.

 

Maybe I am just bit bored with European theater (however Kuban was really refreshing), as would welcome African DLC as well. I know it is getting to CloD but again might be just me but I do not play that much to split over multiple sims set in WWII (meaning that most likely I will never buy CloD), to be honest would be really nice to have both teams working on GB and CloD to work on one product (although it is probably not possible) rather than 'compete' with each other or doing redundant work (like making same planes separately for two games).

 

Often we hear that it is down to limited resources (Jason spending his own time/money on finding information regarding Japanese planes), team working on Great Battles being small, etc. I wonder if  kickstarter or similar ways of finding additional resources were ever considered. Niche products (and I believe flight sims count as such) strongly benefit from crowdfundings.

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4 hours ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

i dont forgott it, but for a Model 21 our P-38 is a little bit late, for that a Model 52 would be better.

But that are only dreams - will not become true

 

Actually, I think the 52 is the late comer, being deployed in 1943 after the first P-38s were introduced at Port Morseby (sp?)

Edited by cardboard_killer

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i talked about the allied planes we already have in game. And our P-38 version we already have is another kind of breed than the early P-38s flown out of Port Moresby in 1942.

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One must remember that the reason the P 38s were deployed to New Guinea in the first place was because of the appearance of the Kawasaki Ki61, which, when it was running properly, out performed every single seater that was in the Allied inventory in the theater at that time.

 

Hence my old sig photo from the old days...

 

elskiubikb4.jpg

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 3:00 PM, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

yet people will buy it, at least I feel that...

 

 

Yeah, they probably would. If a Corsair or a Zero was released tomorrow, I'd bet a day's pay it would sell like mad. Most people would love to have those planes at a BOX level of quality.

 

But some less-fun types might be upset. It wouldn't conform with their version of the game.

Edited by CanadaOne
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I am a pedant when it comes to how one should fly. I refuse doing maneuvers I believe should not be done but possible in this game, after dying thousand times and then discover that the maneuvers in fact was possible and even had a name. 
I would buy anything from PTO and happily fly themon Kuban map. 

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Hell, just release the Zeke by itself, with some palm tree objects, and  I'll have those, and P39s and P40s over a faux New Guinea (Kuban) with my BlitzPig mates most ricky tick.

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52 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

One must remember that the reason the P 38s were deployed to New Guinea in the first place was because of the appearance of the Kawasaki Ki61, which, when it was running properly, out performed every single seater that was in the Allied inventory in the theater at that time.

 

Hence my old sig photo from the old days...

 

elskiubikb4.jpg

didnt the 5th Airforce got its first unit with P-38 before any Ki-61 was active over NewGuinea?

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1 hour ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

didnt the 5th Airforce got its first unit with P-38 before any Ki-61 was active over NewGuinea?

 

Yes, late 1942. I don't think the IJA was committed to the SW Pacific campaign by then, still focusing on CBI?

2 hours ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

i talked about the allied planes we already have in game. And our P-38 version we already have is another kind of breed than the early P-38s flown out of Port Moresby in 1942.

 

Ahh, misunderstood. When was the J deployed to the SWP? I would assum a F/G model would be released with any PTO module that involved USAAF planes, though, as it fills an important place.

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On 2/25/2020 at 11:30 AM, Majakowski said:

This game really is a relevant factor in the cognitive evolution when one is really interested in the matter.

 

Indeed! 👍

 

A PTO pack would be lovely. Personally I guess I'm more into the CBI theater but I perfectly understand why people would like to see carrier ops in this series.

 

We'll see what happens.

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Until earlier this year I was flying a heavily modded IL2 1946 for PTO. I migrated to BoX and FC when I got a newer computer. PTO is a pretty vast undertaking, as a general thing. You have quite a variation in that you have the full array of mode, ranging from fully land-based missions to fully sea-based missions involving carriers. And then you have everything in between. There's a lot to add and to research and to nail down. You'd have to get granular to have any kind of starting point - pick a battle that isn't going to be too big a bite to chew. 

 

I could see a more land-based PTO battle as a starting point because it could reuse a number of assets already in the game, and would involve more that could be done through modification rather than a fully new creation. But it's still time-consuming and not an easy undertaking.

 

For me, I'd love to see the F4F/FM2 and the P40 variants in action (from the early C models right through the E and the N). The Japanese planes would need to be newly made, but I think this all  would sell pretty strongly given the hole in the market for a truly modern Pacific sim (I like heavily-modded IL2 1946, but BoX is the more modern and quality offering today).

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First they need to release flyable b25 this year which can be used in PTO! 

Take her off from carrier if you dare 😉

 

PTO planes, Zero, Val, Kate, Danutless, Devastator...means nothing to me without scenery they belong to...but i'd buy them whatsoever :)

 

I hope after BoN Jason will find enough data on Val and Kate so Midway can be possible...or any other pto battle regardless guesstimation on those planes.

 

Edited by EAF_Ribbon

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I thought the Ki61 was more of a response to the American planes when they would enter dives to escape.

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1 hour ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

First they need to release flyable b25 this year which can be used in PTO! 

Take her off from carrier if you dare 😉

 

PTO planes, Zero, Val, Kate, Danutless, Devastator...means nothing to me without scenery they belong to...but i'd buy them whatsoever :)

 

I hope after BoN Jason will find enough data on Val and Kate so Midway can be possible...or any other pto battle regardless guesstimation on those planes.

 

In old IL 2 I made do with modded planes with borrowed pits and had a helluva lot of fun. 
I am more accustomed to proper things now. 
But when it comes to some airplanes, I am not picky. This is why I fly I 16 in DCS , and will fly Corsair there too if need be over caucasus. Beggars cant be picky. 
If I can do that I sure as hell can fly pto planes over Kuban. And it would be more realistic

Edited by LuseKofte

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30 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

In old IL 2 I made do with modded planes with borrowed pits and had a helluva lot of fun. 
I am more accustomed to proper things now. 
But when it comes to some airplanes, I am not picky. This is why I fly I 16 in DCS , and will fly Corsair there too if need be over caucasus. Beggars cant be picky. 
If I can do that I sure as hell can fly pto planes over Kuban. And it would be more realistic

 

Yep.

 

Just having access to the planes would be great. We're all here because planes are cool and flying them on the computer can be a lot of fun. And when the planes are done to the level of detail BOX offers, well who wouldn't want more planes?

 

It's all about the fun of flying. And a Zero and a Corsair would be damn good fun. And I'll bet people would be happy to buy them.

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12 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

It's all about the fun of flying. And a Zero and a Corsair would be damn good fun. And I'll bet people would be happy to buy them.

Actually I wonder how Wildcat and Zero would do. Would all go for the Zero? Or would we be able to replicate a historical outcome. 
Would Wildcat pilots be cunning enough to outsmart Zero pilots. Will there be enough cooperation to pull that scenario off

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15 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Actually I wonder how Wildcat and Zero would do. Would all go for the Zero? Or would we be able to replicate a historical outcome. 
Would Wildcat pilots be cunning enough to outsmart Zero pilots. Will there be enough cooperation to pull that scenario off

I imagine people will become quite good at the Wildcat (assuming we ever get the Pacific) and seriously humble overconfident Zero players and the newer players who will likely gravitate toward it. Still, there probably won't be much anyone could do against an expert flying a Zero they are comfortable in.

 

The Wildcat should at least have some great durability working for it which can't be said about the Zero. Hopefully we'd see the Zero's tendency to light up when hit well modeled here. 

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3 minutes ago, GarandM1 said:

The Wildcat should at least have some great durability working for it which can't be said about the Zero. Hopefully we'd see the Zero's tendency to light up when hit well modeled here. 

When they tested the Aleutian Zero they found it to be very inferior in dive against the Wildcat. 
That is it, what I understand this made a whole lot of difference. If high enough you should be able to escape. The table as I understand was not turned before the Hellcat came. 
At least that is what I understand. So some things would be very important to get right. 
A dogfight episode took a incident with a SBD 3 and Zero dogfight. The outcome was 0-0 but the fogfight lasted for over 10 minutes, docu voice over said if the Zero should turn as sharp as the Dauntless it would rip the wings off. 
I am sceptic to use Dogfight episodes in History channel as source. But that is all I got

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Honestly, I'd rather see PTO in CloD. Especially after seeing this video:


I think this engine is more capable to reproduce massive battles with large number of aircraft and ships. And I like FM and especially DM better.

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