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[=PzG=]-Southernbear

Two Expansions for the Price of one! (Well, Kinda)

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With the new Channel map coming with Battle of Normandy we finally have the map to stage the Battle of Britain!

Now of course this is a bit of a half truth because you can't have a Map with no planes! Which means in order to have the aircraft selection you'd need you'd have to have at least get Premium Kuban (Spitfire, A20, Bf 109E7 and another He 111)  if not that and Moscow (Bf 110E-2) plus the new Hurricane Collector planes.

 

One issue I do see with the map is idk if the front lines will be forced to take place in France and if there is a way to make it *appear*  maybe in the Channel so it looks like D-Day hasn't happened yet but Map creators would know more than me on that front.

 

We are still missing some aircraft that were a very big prominent like the Dornier line of bombers and British counterparts like the Hampton and Wellington but we at least have enough to make a Battle of Britain scenario even if its slightly bear bones. Or a late 1941 scenario if you feel using a Bf109 E7 is too unhistorical for BoB despite it still being an Emile 109 or likewise the Spitfire Mk.Vb not being a Spitfire Mk II ect.

 

The Types of Plane line ups:

 

UK:

-Hurricanes (all versions)

-Spitfire Mk.Vb

-A-20 Havocs (again this would be another exception as the British did use A20s but they were in the form of 7.5mm equipped DB-7s from france which were then given .303s and not 50cals)

 

Germans: 

Bf-109E7

He111s

Bf-110 E-2

And if you do a 1941 scenario you could also throw in the Fw-190A-3 and Ju 88

 

Regardless I hope servers like Combat Box, Wings of Liberty and MOST IMPORTANTLY, TAW take this as an opportunity to create some Western front maps and missions WITHOUT the issue of trying to balance extremely powerful machines like the Spit Mk IX, XIV, Bf 109 G-14/K-4, P-51 and 47s, Tempest, Fw190 A-8 and the 262 just to name a few planes against each other.

We are that much closer!

 

Battle of Normandy Map.png

Edited by Southernbear
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I'm just as curious! Above all, this should make a long-standing dream come true for many. The only drop of bitterness for me are the new measurements (no dunkirk :( ). But surely better than nothing.
Also the "unofficial" set sounds great. Although I wouldn't worry about things like the E7, there are not such big differences to the E4. You could even add the F2 and F4 in the 1941 range which would mix better with the Spit MK Vb. In this sense we can only hope that we can experience corresponding scenarios on Wol, Kota and CB.  The only thing that might be a bit bad is the fact that on the allied side there are almost only collector planes available and not everybody wants to fly an A-20.  
Nevertheless it should be a possibility that we should take!


 

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3 minutes ago, 6FG_Big_Al said:

The only thing that might be a bit bad is the fact that on the allied side there are almost only collector planes available and not everybody wants to fly an A-20.  
Nevertheless it should be a possibility that we should take!

 

Thats the thing I tried to work around...I mean I feel a lot more people will find it easier to fork out extra just to get the premium version of a expansion (as you'd get both the A20 and Spit for Kuban) than JUST a collector plane...however I somehow doubt many people will need much convincing about the Hurricane as you get god damn 4 different versions (really nice value) from one purchase unlike something like the Yak 9 for example

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Just my opinion, but I think that using BoN for the Battle of Britain is like using CloD for D-Day.

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I just ask you to take into account that we'll make only the airfields that we need for a career in 1944. There will be about 100 of them and most likely we'll not be able to make the earlier ones that were used in 1940-1943 but we don’t need it now. This question is being investigated right now.

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2 hours ago, BlackSix said:

I just ask you to take into account that we'll make only the airfields that we need for a career in 1944. There will be about 100 of them and most likely we'll not be able to make the earlier ones that were used in 1940-1943 but we don’t need it now. This question is being investigated right now.

I mean should be fine, I'd assume out of a 100 airfields at least a FEW would have been built early on and still used in 1944

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I was going to do 1942 on in PWCG.  Definitely do not want to do BoB as neither the plane set or the map are made for that.  However, 1942 on should be fine,

 

1942:

British nuisance attacks.

German nuisance attacks.

Some night operations.

Some anti shipping stuff.

 

1943:

US escorted medium bomber attacks added to the mix. 

All of the 1942 missions continue,

 

1944:

Attacks intensify with emphasis on transport.

D-Day and back to the full blown tactical situation ... with Germans probably represented as unrealistically present because it's not much fun otherwise.

 

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Looking at the Normandy map, it doesn't extend to the East Anglia area of England where many pre-D Day and D Day airfields were located, especially Bodney. 

Is it possible for the developers to make a flattened area in the NorthEast portion of the map of England for us to make our own base?  I have a copy of the actual blueprints of the base at Bodney used by the 352ndFG and would duplicate it using whatever blocks are available. I just need a flattened rectangular area about one mile by one mile. Additionally it could be used by other groups to make their home bases also in whatever design they wish. Sort of customizing the map to a group's particular need. 

Thanks for the consideration. 

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3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Some anti shipping stuff.

 

One of the least explored areas of the game, insofar.

 

As for the OP; this BoB issue has been discussed to death already.

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37 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

As for the OP; this BoB issue has been discussed to death already.

 

This ^

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We definitely have the aircraft to do mid 1941 - mid 1942.  Spit Vb/Hurri II plus the A20 (RAF Boston) flying offensive missions over the continent, opposed by 109E/F early and 109F/G and FW190A later.  The problem appears in late 42 and 43 where we have the wrong Spit IX (our Merlin 66/70 equipped version wasn't in service until spring 43 - ignoring the late war armament - and is significantly better than the early Merlin 61 Spit IXs that showed up in mid 42) and the wrong Typhoon (the earlier models had more drag and were running lower boost then the '44 era one we will get for Normandy).  Likewise the P-47 and P-38s we are going to have are 1944 and later models.

 

But we'll still be able to do mid 41 through mid 42 and then late 43 to the end of the war.

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31 minutes ago, KW_1979 said:

We definitely have the aircraft to do mid 1941 - mid 1942.  Spit Vb/Hurri II plus the A20 (RAF Boston) flying offensive missions over the continent, opposed by 109E/F early and 109F/G and FW190A later.  The problem appears in late 42 and 43 where we have the wrong Spit IX (our Merlin 66/70 equipped version wasn't in service until spring 43 - ignoring the late war armament - and is significantly better than the early Merlin 61 Spit IXs that showed up in mid 42) and the wrong Typhoon (the earlier models had more drag and were running lower boost then the '44 era one we will get for Normandy).  Likewise the P-47 and P-38s we are going to have are 1944 and later models.

 

But we'll still be able to do mid 41 through mid 42 and then late 43 to the end of the war.

 

Honestly I'm not that particular.  I'll use Spit Vs a little longer than I should and introduce the IXs a little earlier than I should.  I'll take whatever P47 we get and push the envelope a bit.  I do that with the Ju87: I use the D at Moscow.  IMHO better to use the D than to not have Stukas in the German lineup.  Maybe one day the gaps get filled.

 

There are limits as to how far I will push it.  Given the plane set and the map, BoB is, to me, a bridge too far.  Still have to admit that I was toying with the idea of "what if BoB happened in 1941" :) 

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11 hours ago, Southernbear said:

With the new Channel map coming with Battle of Normandy we finally have the map to stage the Battle of Britain!

Now of course this is a bit of a half truth because you can't have a Map with no planes! Which means in order to have the aircraft selection you'd need you'd have to have at least get Premium Kuban (Spitfire, A20, Bf 109E7 and another He 111)  if not that and Moscow (Bf 110E-2) plus the new Hurricane Collector planes.

 

One issue I do see with the map is idk if the front lines will be forced to take place in France and if there is a way to make it *appear*  maybe in the Channel so it looks like D-Day hasn't happened yet but Map creators would know more than me on that front.

 

We are still missing some aircraft that were a very big prominent like the Dornier line of bombers and British counterparts like the Hampton and Wellington but we at least have enough to make a Battle of Britain scenario even if its slightly bear bones. Or a late 1941 scenario if you feel using a Bf109 E7 is too unhistorical for BoB despite it still being an Emile 109 or likewise the Spitfire Mk.Vb not being a Spitfire Mk II ect.

 

The Types of Plane line ups:

 

UK:

-Hurricanes (all versions)

-Spitfire Mk.Vb

-A-20 Havocs (again this would be another exception as the British did use A20s but they were in the form of 7.5mm equipped DB-7s from france which were then given .303s and not 50cals)

 

Germans: 

Bf-109E7

He111s

Bf-110 E-2

And if you do a 1941 scenario you could also throw in the Fw-190A-3 and Ju 88

 

Regardless I hope servers like Combat Box, Wings of Liberty and MOST IMPORTANTLY, TAW take this as an opportunity to create some Western front maps and missions WITHOUT the issue of trying to balance extremely powerful machines like the Spit Mk IX, XIV, Bf 109 G-14/K-4, P-51 and 47s, Tempest, Fw190 A-8 and the 262 just to name a few planes against each other.

We are that much closer!

 

Battle of Normandy Map.png

It is very strange seeing my hometown on an IL-2 map... If the developers want any help in finding historical documents about it, I'd be happy to help.

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Quote

Battle of Normandy Map.png

 

Well, cutting 10% from the bottom of that map and add it top the top would be great :) But then they will have to model London that will take a year or so...

 

What we need as a collectors plane is really a Spitfire Mk I or II... The Ju-88 A4 is BoB correct (by a few days), The 109 E7 without a drop tank is really an E4, the 110 E2 is a bit late but not that different from a C4/B if the 601P is nerfed? The He 111 H6 is really not that far from a H4. The Hurricane Mk IIA flew in the Battle...

 

But a Spitfire Mk V is rather far from a Mk II... And a Do-17 to spice things up and complete the german bomber line of the era would be a nice bonus :) My wallet is wide open...

 

Edited by mazex

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17 minutes ago, mazex said:

:) My wallet is wide open

 

Check out CloD's progress then, help them out buying the game if you don't own it already. It it really is coming along nicely. Just a week ago they released a full list of flyables, it is great.

 

Moving away from this BoB talk, which we already know to be exhausted .... I would indeed buy a 42/43 expansion pack, with the same Normandy map. Even if it meant only one or two really new planes bundled with refits of the usual suspects. All I would really insist on is it having it's own career mode, and proper period airfields. 

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9 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I was going to do 1942 on in PWCG.  Definitely do not want to do BoB as neither the plane set or the map are made for that.  However, 1942 on should be fine,

 

1942:

British nuisance attacks.

German nuisance attacks.

Some night operations.

Some anti shipping stuff.

 

1943:

US escorted medium bomber attacks added to the mix. 

All of the 1942 missions continue,

 

1944:

Attacks intensify with emphasis on transport.

D-Day and back to the full blown tactical situation ... with Germans probably represented as unrealistically present because it's not much fun otherwise.

 

 

I actually find 1942 quite interesting... there is more uncertainty about the course of the war and when (or whether) the liberation of France will take place. The Allies also are much further from air-superiority. The encounters with early Fw-190s show that there will be plenty of surprises...  and the fact that encounters involve crossing the channel to conduct raids gives it a more of a sense of dynamic skirmishes against a background of static warfare.

 

Whereas by 1944 the Luftwaffe is outnumbers - what 48 to 1 in France (if one looks at the effective sortie rates)?

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15 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

No Dunkirk? 😨

 

5-10 km from the edge of the map.

 

The greater depth into France is great for modelling the full Normandy campaign (Falaise etc.)

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1 hour ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

No Dunkirk? 😨

 

no

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Well as the Spitfire Mk.V was a response to the Ju 86P she first produced in January of 1941, the battle of Britain officially ended on the 31st of October, 1940.

So all in all I don't see too much issues in it.

 

As for bases I did some reading and we should be in luck 

http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-battle-of-britain-map.html This website has a map (click on the map will load a new page) using the  Battle of Britain Campaign Diaries as a resource to collect a "comprehensive map of RAF and Luftwaffe bases in the summer of 1940. The map also includes the locations of radar stations and the maximum flight range of the German Messerschmitt 109 and the ranges of the RAF's radar coverage"

 

It is in an odd mix of french and Spanish but it gets the point across

 

http://doblea.info/Batalla_de_Inglaterra/index.html <Another link directly to the map as well

Key:

Blue with a White circle: "RAF Air Base"

White with a Blue circle: "Fighter Command Station (RAF)"

The Circle with arrows point to RAF High(Blue arrow) and Low(White arrow) Radar stations

 

This means we at very least have RAF Fighter Command Station, Tangmere on our map And a few other miscellaneous RAF bases

 

The Germans follow a similar trend:

Red with white circle: Air base (Hunting bases...I assume this means fighter bases)

White with Red Circle: Air bases for long range bombers

Red with White Cross: "Bases of flight bombers plummeting" I Assume this means Dive bomber bases for Ju 87s and the like. 

 

With our map the Germans have a He 111 base in Cherbourg-Maupertus, one near Cean several "Hunting Bases" near Cean and between Boulonge-sur-Mer and Calais and a single Ju 87 airbase near Cean. 

 

The *Disclaimer* of course is I am not a Dev and they could have and probably have found better infomation than I but I just wanted to show that there are RAF Bases that south of London. 

Bellow is a Snap shot of the rough same size of the map from the "Batalla de Inglaterra" Map

 

 

RAF and Luft Bases Summer 1940.PNG

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9 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

Check out CloD's progress then, help them out buying the game if you don't own it already. It it really is coming along nicely. Just a week ago they released a full list of flyables, it is great.

 

Well, I own everything that has been released from both the IL2 series and the RoF series, been around supporting the team since the early Neoqb days...  As I do not visit this forum every day (or week) I have not seen the topic before. Therefore I feel perfectly entitled to have some fun discussing the OP:s topic here. If you feel that the topic is exhausted, I am sure there are many other interesting threads for you to participate in?

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@mazex you will find with a little research that it has been publicly and officially stated many, many times (really really many) that BoB ain't happening, for valid reasons. That being said, sorry for interrupting with mere facts - by all means feel free to discuss fantasy scenarios as much as you like.

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53 minutes ago, danielprates said:

by all means feel free to discuss fantasy scenarios as much as you like.

 

I mean the OP was literally this tho. I wasn't asking for them to add BoB content specifically (although just for historical significance a Early spitfire or Do17/217 would be neat) but rather stating that with the new DLC, inadvertently they have allowed us and more importantly Server owner/mission makers to reach very convincing level of realism and gives us the opportunities to play out battles of that time period and region (late 1940 to 42). Which given the relatively low power and familiarity of the aircraft involved and simple mission objectives would be common place rather than Servers needing to balance these high performance props and jets just in order to get any Western front action at all. 

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