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LF_Gallahad

The Me 410 hype thread

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Messerschmitt-Me-410-Hornisse-09.jpg

 

As you may already know, the Me 410 has been announced as a Axis plane for the upcoming Normandy expansion. This has brought a lot of excitement for me as a fan of multirole planes.

 

The Me 410 was a refined version of the 210. It was fast despite of its size, capable of a huge variety of loadouts and a good heavy figther. We don't know yet what version the team will develop but we can get a glimpse of what it was capable of carrying.

 

Two versions were availible at the BoN timeframe, the A version and the B version. Both having a -1 bomber version and a -2 heavy figther variant. The main difference between the A and B was the weapons and the engine changes but I don't know if these made it to the front. (DB 603A and AA vs DB 603G)

 

The A version carried Mg 17s alongside 20mm cannons and the B version, used the 13mm, Mg 131 alongside the same cannons too.

 

The normal version had an internal bay capable of carrying bombs so I am almost sure we will be able to do that. The good thing will be the Umrüst-Bausätze for both A and B versions.

 

These small modifications added a lot of variety to the plane capabilites:

-> The U1 carried cameras for recce. This can be interesting for Marshal if it has some use

-> The U2 carried two more 20mm cannons under the nose, giving it more punching power

-> The U4 is probably the most well know as it carried a 50mm gun under the nose, similar to the Pz III 50mm gun.

 

It is not only about the changes outside the airframe but rather in the inside too. With the bombing version, a Stuvi was usually carried (iirc) wich was a great tool for dive bombing. For the U4 version, there were also different sights like the ZFR 4. This could be another great mod when carrying the U4 version as we could use the sight like we do in Tanks. 

 

zfr.jpg

ZFR 4

 

There is also more details in the web. I am sorry if I couldn't get the details or some information is wrong. There are also the rockets and I am sure that this plane will be an interesting and futhermore a tough piece for the devs to make with such variety of loadouts.

 

What do you guys think of? 

Let's get ready!

Edited by LF_Gallahad
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All I know is I am going to die a lot in this plane. 
cant wait

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I just finished installing BAT mod in 1946 just for this plane (and for the Storch, I admit)...

I remember when I flown the 410 the first time when I installed BAT some years ago before resetting my PC... what a gorgeous beast of a plane

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1 hour ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

All I know is I am going to die a lot in this plane. 
cant wait

I'll second that 😉

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Another really interesting version would be the Me 410 B6. It has 2xMg131, 2xMg151/20 and 2 Mk 103. But i highly doubt that we will get this version as it didn‘t see combat just testing.

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Hope someone makes a twin engined plane dogfight server (maybe sans the P-38 depending on how much better it is), we're getting a lot of good ones that I'd hate to see being ignored online

 

On a 410 specific note, has anyone got any good pictures of the gunner's sight and controls? Curious as to how the remote turrets work

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the "funniest" point for me about its weapons is, that it could NOT close its bombbaydoors completly when loaded with 2-SC500 bombs , they were too fat. With the smaller SD500s it worked.

German engeniering as its best :wacko:

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36 minutes ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

the "funniest" point for me about its weapons is, that it could NOT close its bombbaydoors completly when loaded with 2-SC500 bombs , they were too fat. With the smaller SD500s it worked.

German engeniering as its best :wacko:

Overweighted with love!

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1 hour ago, JuliMonkey said:

Another really interesting version would be the Me 410 B6. It has 2xMg131, 2xMg151/20 and 2 Mk 103. But i highly doubt that we will get this version as it didn‘t see combat just testing.


so no MK 103? or was there another variant that used it?

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17 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


so no MK 103? or was there another variant that used it?

The Me 410 A2 was also planned to have 2xMK103‘s, but the MK103 wasnt available in time so it was cancelled. The Me 410 A1/U2 was also planned to have the MK 103, but had the same problem as the A2 variant. 
I am not shure if some versions were able to equip the the MK 103 as a modification. So probably no MK 103.

Edited by JuliMonkey

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6 minutes ago, JuliMonkey said:

The Me 410 A2 was also planned to have 2xMK103‘s, but the MK103 wasnt ready for service at that time so it was cancelled. The Me 410 A1/U2 was also planned to have the MK 103, but had the same problem as the A2 variant. 
I am not shure if some versions were able to equip the the MK 103 as a modification. So probably no MK 103.

 

Not ready for service? 103s had been around for a while, just not commonly.

 

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1 minute ago, =RvE=Windmills said:

 

Not ready for service? 103s had been around for a while, just not commonly.

 

Sorry my mistake. I mean it wasn‘t available in time.

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There were upgrade programs... including converting all recon and bomber variants into destroyers (heavy fighters)... so I wonder if some of the Mk-103 packs may have made it to units in 1945?

 

I find making sense of the Me-410 variants a bit confusing as there were both factory (Ux) and field-kit (Rx) variants for almost all configurations... I suspect this is partly because the modular weapon's bay of the Me-410 meant that most factory modifications could be installed at the front as well (hence identical configurations would get two designations based more on where they were installed rather than actual differences between them).

 

If true this does suggest that - if any kits were made - they could have easily ended up as retrofits at the front-line.

I created this thread a while back to try to make sense of it all:

I would kindof like to see the Mk-103 on the Me-410 or the Fw-190A6... even if they are rare configurations... it is a weapon we only have on one aircraft at the moment and it is interesting to use...

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4 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

There were upgrade programs... including converting all recon and bomber variants into destroyers (heavy fighters)... so I wonder if some of the Mk-103 packs may have made it to units in 1945?

 

There weren't any Me 410 heavy fighter units in 1945, not by a long shot.

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12 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

There weren't any Me 410 heavy fighter units in 1945, not by a long shot.

 

Didn't Zerstörergeschwader 26 still have a few? Also there were a couple of Seenotstaffeln (naval) units in 1945?

 

I'd assumed that the 1944 order to convert all of them to heavy fighter (U2) standard would've been carried out... but there were still Me-410s in recon units still in operation into the beginning of 1945 - so may be the Seenotstaffeln units received those instead?

 

If you have better information and sources - I'd love to hear more how the units were equipped and re-purposed towards the end of the war ('44-'45) 

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2 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

Didn't Zerstörergeschwader 26 still have a few? Also there were a couple of Seenotstaffeln (naval) units in 1945?

 

There were some elements of ZG 26 still active with them in 1945, but seeing as they were all up in Norway, I kinda doubt they would have had such heavy armament. No idea about naval units, but again, highly doubtful.

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So... at least tell me there were test units in '44... tell me there is some hope of seeing the Mk-103 on something with a power to weight ratio of 0.12hp/lb!!

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Without any question my number one for the upcoming axis side planeset.  Can't wait to see the interior in the decent Il-2 quality. That's why i really hope that they are able to implement this beauty into the series. Also the new mechanics for the gunner would also be a benefit for other planes like the B-25 :).

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1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

So... at least tell me there were test units in '44...

 

Only test unit was Erprobungskommando 25 and only unit which flew the 410 as Zerstoerer was II./ZG 26. Both Units were focussing on using either the 3,7mm Flak-43 or 5mm BK-5 as an anti-bomber device. I have found no mention of any trials in 1944 with the MK 103. II./ZG 26 was stationed at Koenigsberg/Neumark, which is east of Berlin and now Poland. Where Erp.Kdo. 25 was situated at that time I don´t know (maybe Rechlin?).

Edited by sevenless

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Me 410 V-18 (W. Nr. 10115, TF+ED) sent to E-Stelle Tarnewitz between 1-14 October 1943 for trials with 2 MK 103.

(Source : "Me210/Me410 Hornisse An Illustrated Production History" by Petrick & Stocker, Midland 2007).

410_103.thumb.jpg.901a833b663641bd8f288f87eb824ad5.jpg

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18 hours ago, Pierre64 said:

Me 410 V-18 (W. Nr. 10115, TF+ED) sent to E-Stelle Tarnewitz between 1-14 October 1943 for trials with 2 MK 103.

(Source : "Me210/Me410 Hornisse An Illustrated Production History" by Petrick & Stocker, Midland 2007).

 

Yep that is 1943. The Question is, was there still some interest in this config in 1944?

 

BTW: Some interesting stuff here:

 

https://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me 410/Me 410 B-2 U-1 Wa.pdf

 

https://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/MK 103/MK 103 Maschinenkanone.htm

Unbenannt.jpg

Unbenannt1.jpg

Edited by sevenless
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Well the deeper question is, if I'm honest: How do I make sense of all of the variants commonly listed? How many actually existed? :) I'll admit to being a bit clueless.

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13 minutes ago, -332FG-Mheetu said:

full-1725-28102-35.jpg

 

I want my 6 shooter lol

This would be awesome, but i doubt that there are many situations in which this armament can be useful in IL2.

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10 hours ago, LF_Gallahad said:

With the bombing version, a Stuvi was usually carried (iirc) wich was a great tool for dive bombing.

 

Hope they implement this, which could (should) also go along the Stuka.

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7 minutes ago, JuliMonkey said:

This would be awesome, but i doubt that there are many situations in which this armament can be useful in IL2.

 

Yes, in order to use a weapon that breaks up formations we need formations to break up! :)

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5 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

Yes, in order to use a weapon that breaks up formations we need formations to break up! :)

However this wasn't an obstacle for implementing the 21cm WGr. for the 190 A8.

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36 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

However this wasn't an obstacle for implementing the 21cm WGr. for the 190 A8.

 

Neither for the R4Ms for Me-262s and 190-D9s. The more the merrier, regardless if there will be large bomber formations. It is all there for having fun. Would like to have that 3,7cm Flak Version of the 410 included.

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I don't think I have seen Me 410 with 37mm, it's either 50mm or smaller cannons

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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3 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I don't think I have seen Me 410 with 37mm, it's either 50mm or smaller cannons

 

Look for black 13, II/ZG26, very prominent fly-by picture shot from Victor Labruno from B-17G 42-97184 Lady Godiva of the 562nd BS/ 388th BG. Shot down 12 May 44. Crew was Leutnant Paul Kaschuba and Feldwebel Karl Bredemeier.

 

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Ah that picture I always thought it was a 50mm one, is there a very high resolution example of the photo? looking at the flash hider we could tell which one of the guns is.

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44 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Ah that picture I always thought it was a 50mm one, is there a very high resolution example of the photo? looking at the flash hider we could tell which one of the guns is.

 

Here is what is published by Forsyth, Robert. Me 210/410 Zerstörer Units (Combat Aircraft) (Kindle-Position1983). Bloomsbury Publishing. Kindle-Version. 

 

Unbenannt.jpgUnbenannt1.jpg

Unbenannt2.png

Unbenannt3.png

Edited by sevenless

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10 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Look for black 13, II/ZG26, very prominent fly-by picture shot from Victor Labruno from B-17G 42-97184 Lady Godiva of the 562nd BS/ 388th BG. Shot down 12 May 44. Crew was Leutnant Paul Kaschuba and Feldwebel Karl Bredemeier.

 

 

9 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Ah that picture I always thought it was a 50mm one, is there a very high resolution example of the photo? looking at the flash hider we could tell which one of the guns is.

it is a 50mm, according to everything i ever read about that pictures it's ab Me 410A-1/U4  U4 being the Umrüstsatz with a 50mm

Edited by Asgar

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1 hour ago, Asgar said:

 

it is a 50mm, according to everything i ever read about that pictures it's ab Me 410A-1/U4  U4 bing the Umrüstsatz with a 50mm

The cannon with the muzzlebreak which has holes big holes in it and is shaped like a cylinder is the 50mm gun. The one with the the cone like ending without holes is the 37mm cannon. 
On this picture it seems that this Me 410 is armed with a 37mm cannon.

Unbenannt3.png

This picture shows the 37mm cannon on the Stuka.
A3E5C750-899C-4D19-A064-B462D8E92FAF.jpeg.0a436dd283f294ca684548a96b2f13de.jpeg

Edited by JuliMonkey

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55 minutes ago, JuliMonkey said:

The cannon with the muzzlebreak which has holes in it is the 50mm gun. The one with the the cone like ending without holes is the 37mm cannon. 
On this picture it seems that this Me 410 is armed with a 37mm cannon.

It is clearly a 37mm on this picture, you can see how the muzzle brake gets wider to the front. And as you can see on the Stuka picture, the muzzle brake of the 37mm gun has holes, too, otherwise it wouldn't be a muzzle brake, because it is the holes that brake the recoil.

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