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Ju 88 C6 in BON as nightfighter

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28 minutes ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

Mosquito is and was a target for night fighters. The JU 88 was a target for allied night fighters, both A and night fighter version. 
I see absolutely no problem in a night fighter scenario with the plane set we are getting

 

Exactly.

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4 hours ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

About the warping between stations, this problem could be eliminated by nightfighter conversions of single seat aircraft like the fw190 A8 or A6 of which there were NFs.

 

I would love to see any, no matter how simplyfied, depiction of nightfighting.

 

Jason please reconsider not bringing nightfighting to this wonderfull game.


We already have night fighting in the sim. I haven’t taken anything away. I’m just not trying to build an air intercept radar.

 

Jason

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Indeed. We won't have jazz music or the sensor modelling... but the groundwork has been laid going right back to the rise-of-flight days... we should be grateful for that.

 

Speaking of sensors though - I do wonder if the AI respond to an aircraft firing its guns at night? Probably as big an issue as modelling radar is getting the modelling of the human eyeball right for the AI... things like whether an aircraft is seen against clouds, sky, or ground (or ground fires)... whether the enemy is firing, whether night vision has been impacted by a bright light (it isn't just pupil dilation... being it the wrong way by a searchlight can actually cause some depolarisation of the receptors... and it can take a couple of minutes to regain full vision... more in some cases). In comparison the limited performance of Lichtenstein is probably fairly easy to code (at least if it is only the radar operator directing the pilot - and one doesn't have to model the displays or calibrating them).

 

But as I said - we should be grateful for what we have! It is an impressive engine with a lot of work - and we have a couple of intruders now and aircraft which are a half-stones-throw away from being the major night fighters of the day (e.g. Mosqito FB.VI with Serrat were used as night fighters, Bf-110G4 and Ju-88C6...)

 

14 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Loke said:

The Ju-88 Nightfighters main target were the British Halifax and Lancaster bomb groups.  I don't see any Halifax nor Lancaster announced. 

 

So I take it that you are arguing we should have a Lancaster (or Halifax or Wellington) as a collector's plane? Because that is one inference people could make (rather than that we shouldn't even be trying to fight at night)...

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2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Speaking of sensors though - I do wonder if the AI respond to an aircraft firing its guns at night?

 

Yes, it's a light source, so the AI will key in on areas where the sky is being illuminated. It's the same type of logic used with searchlights.

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3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, it's a light source, so the AI will key in on areas where the sky is being illuminated. It's the same type of logic used with searchlights.

Do they go after sound too? I bombed a train at night with PO 2. Gunners on train did not shoot before I passed the train and had dropped the bombs. This was a simple QMB mission

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On 1/12/2020 at 3:02 AM, BraveSirRobin said:

 

That still requires a realistic radar system.  It's just a realistic system operated by the AI.  And then they will get constant complaining from people who want to operate the radar and more complaining from people who think the AI radar operator comms is poor.

Separate from the clear rejection by Jason above: compared to the complex task of simulating several human gunners per plane it shouldn't be such a problem to establish an airborne WW2-radar-system within the sim. The gunners we have now are somewhat special, but do the job. There's constant complaining about them, too - I doubt that has been a reason to drop that feature.
Asking for air-borne radar presents a technical problem the studio has solved already. Anyhow - an airborne-radar-feature would add some serious workload. If there's no hope for a proper return of investment it's reasonable not to start it.

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I'd like to have a placeable radar station for the mission editor that gives vectors to aircraft in range of it, it could be both a useful aid for intercepts in low visibility, and an interesting target to attack in multiplayer. The RAF operated many radar types, from early warning systems, to ground controlled intercepts, and even had radar-guided anti-air guns, and seeing as we're getting the southern coast of England I think this is a good expansion for it

 

Just a unit (either a static station or trucks, the allies operated both) that, while alive, broadcasts "[callsign] has spotted enemy aircraft, heading X for Y miles, at Z altitude", give it a little dedicated icon to put on the map, and it's up to the player to figure out their position relative to the station, and then the enemy from there. I think that would be perfectly fun and to fly with?

 

Seeing as we're mostly getting dayfighters on an allied offensive it isn't critical or high priority, but it would be interesting for sure

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Do we have night intercept or patrol missions in career already? The only night missions I've flown are strike missions, but I may not be in the right areas/eras. 

 

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2 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

Do we have night intercept or patrol missions in career already? The only night missions I've flown are strike missions, but I may not be in the right areas/eras. 

 

Me-110 career in Kuban

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Oh, do they properly fly night missions now? The couple of times since the release of career I've started careers with them, they flew day missions like normal fighters. 

 

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1 hour ago, Elem said:

Me-110 career in Kuban

 

Yeah but that is not a nightfighter experience. More like, a fighter flying at night, merely.

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On 1/14/2020 at 11:44 AM, danielprates said:

 

Yeah but that is not a nightfighter experience. More like, a fighter flying at night, merely.

 

I get what you're saying - that without in game support of a radar crewman or ground based radar it's not going to fully encompass night missions.  In fairness to 1C you have Jason coming on and being very straight forward: radar intercept is not on the road map.

 

So what do we have and what can we do with it?

 

The tactical environment that is supported by the game is (I think) pretty much what they had.  Pretty sure there was not much radar used either in the east or on the front lines in the west.  And those night missions were flown in real life.  They are part of career mode and could be a part of any mission created for any reason.  In PWCG I have both night bombing and night intercept missions.  I don't ask anybody to dive bomb :) .

 

In support of tactical night missions we have spotters, search lights, and AI that emulates flying at night (i.e. does not "see" the same way that it does during daytime).  The Ju88C (topic of this thread) can be used exactly as it was used by the squadrons that flew it over Normandy for both daylight and nighttime missions.  Probably with about the same results ☠️

 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I get what you're saying - that without in game support of a radar crewman or ground based radar it's not going to fully encompass night missions.  In fairness to 1C you have Jason coming on and being very straight forward: radar intercept is not on the road map.

 

So what do we have and what can we do with it?

 

The tactical environment that is supported by the game is (I think) pretty much what they had.  Pretty sure there was not much radar used either in the east or on the front lines in the west.  And those night missions were flown in real life.  They are part of career mode and could be a part of any mission created for any reason.  In PWCG I have both night bombing and night intercept missions.  I don't ask anybody to dive bomb :) .

 

In support of tactical night missions we have spotters, search lights, and AI that emulates flying at night (i.e. does not "see" the same way that it does during daytime).  The Ju88C (topic of this thread) can be used exactly as it was used by the squadrons that flew it over Normandy for both daylight and nighttime missions.  Probably with about the same results ☠️

 

 

I agree 100% with everything you said (i would add to the radar items, a better modeling of radio nav and landing). 

 

I wished only to point out that some people are saying "we already have night flying", and that is not correct. We have flight 'at night' only, weather and moonlight permitting. 

 

I am actually glad every time the dev team comes out and say "we are not having this or that", it always comes out clear and we can't really complain about them having clear goals. The game is what it is, I think most people accept that.  

 

That being said, you and others have claimed that some sort of decent nightflying missions can be built - better in scripted missions than in randomized carrer modes, if I understood correctly. That is good to hear, from  what I read it seems those kind of missions are not ideal but they are not merely 'makeshift' also. Have you considered doing something, just so that we can fiddle around and see how they feel?

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1 hour ago, danielprates said:

 

That being said, you and others have claimed that some sort of decent nightflying missions can be built - better in scripted missions than in randomized carrer modes, if I understood correctly. That is good to hear, from  what I read it seems those kind of missions are not ideal but they are not merely 'makeshift' also. Have you considered doing something, just so that we can fiddle around and see how they feel?

Do you know the scripted campaign 'Nightfighters over the Kuban', created by Juri_JS? You can have quite some fun flying the Bf110 G2 at night.

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2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Do you know the scripted campaign 'Nightfighters over the Kuban', created by Juri_JS? You can have quite some fun flying the Bf110 G2 at night.

 

Heck, I did not! Will try it out for sure, thanks for the tip! 😀

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