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Why is the flak so small in this game. For the immersion it would be so nice to se the flak pounding all around the plane. 
Maybe the flak guys don’t have to be so freakin good and multiply them by x10. What do you guys think?

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Only if I get to aim the guns. Otherwise, they are an annoying reality that has to be modeled but will never be loved.

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7 minutes ago, TheWhiteMoose said:

Why is the flak so small in this game. For the immersion it would be so nice to se the flak pounding all around the plane. 
Maybe the flak guys don’t have to be so freakin good and multiply them by x10. What do you guys think?

It would be nice for sure, but the question is would the game engine handle it well, and indications point to no. Not without a revamp, anyway.

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In Netscape's He 111 mission there was quite some more Heavy Flak around Stalingrad.

What I find especially annoying with heavy Flak is, they are shooting all around, but rarely in the area in which the aircrafts, they should be shooting at, are flying. Something like, the enemies are east of the Flak and the Flak is shooting to the north.

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5 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

In Netscape's He 111 mission there was quite some more Heavy Flak around Stalingrad.

What I find especially annoying with heavy Flak is, they are shooting all around, but rarely in the area in which the aircrafts, they should be shooting at, are flying. Something like, the enemies are east of the Flak and the Flak is shooting to the north.

 

You see that in period movies though. More or less anyway. Not when you see big formations of heavy bombers, which were more predictable I think, but often when there are smaller, sassier airplanes closer to the ground. Just dozens of flak explosions all over the place but too far to cause damage, and the aircraft just flying inbetween them in a straight line.

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I´m fine with the settings servers such as Combat Box use for the AAA. It gives me a tiny window to get out before the gunners awake and I get shot up from all directions.

If AAA will be set back to "Super-Duper-Ace-Deathstar-on-speed-mode" then I demand my A-20 to be equipped with AGM-86 Cruise Missiles, two at least... 🤣

 

Relax, moaning about AAA is sort of a running gag in IL2GB and I´m exaggerating... Not by much though... 😂

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2 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

You see that in period movies though. More or less anyway. Not when you see big formations of heavy bombers, which were more predictable I think, but often when there are smaller, sassier airplanes closer to the ground. Just dozens of flak explosions all over the place but too far to cause damage, and the aircraft just flying inbetween them in a straight line.

This is not what I am talking about. Like I wrote above, the aircrafts are in a completely different direction, than the direction the Flak is shooting at. Heavy Flak guns were not shooting on their own, their fire was led by the battery staff, which gave the direction, together with the other important informations to the guns. So all guns should at least shoot roughly in the direction, where the aircraft is.

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In Rise of Flight there were two mechanisms... one generated a box of flak around an aircraft formation (largely cosmetic I think... blasts far from the aircraft in a cube)... and then there were the actual ballistic calculations for the guns themselves... because of the high traverse speed and lack of ranging errors the latter could be exceptionally accurate at some altitudes (which was a problem). Looking at the files BoX now seems to have fuzing ranging errors which might be an improvement...

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Another thing about heavy Flak, that is quite odd is, when you fly an escort mission for bombers, the enemy Flak will, when the bombers approach the target, shoot at the escort fighters, instead of the bombers, which doesn't make sense, as the Flak would want to make the duty for the bombers as hard as possible. Plus the chance of hitting the slow bombers, flying straight in tight formation, is much higher, than hitting the small fast turning fighters above the bombers.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Another thing about heavy Flak, that is quite odd is, when you fly an escort mission for bombers, the enemy Flak will, when the bombers approach the target, shoot at the escort fighters, instead of the bombers, which doesn't make sense, as the Flak would want to make the duty for the bombers as hard as possible. Plus the chance of hitting the slow bombers, flying straight in tight formation, is much higher, than hitting the small fast turning fighters above the bombers.

Or do as they normally did and create area flak for the bombers to run into.  Perhaps 1C could code that in as an option.  would work well for those missions giving a more realistic feel.  I have seen some good flak out there.  There have been some good flak experiences, but currently they just aren't right. 

 

some good flak

 

But right now it isn't nearly that dense or accurate.  Don't know why.  There was a time where the flak seemed to have sniper accuracy that would pick planes out of the sky with crazy precision.  I cannot seem to find the video showing this, but I'm sure a lot of us remember it  Hopefully they will fix this.  

 

edit: found it

 

Also not sure how realistic this is, but i would like to hear the flak when it goes off around me.  its just not as fun when the flak is a silent poof of smoke even when it blows up just a few yards from your head.  It just seems a little quiet.  

Edited by zdog0331

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10 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

This is not what I am talking about. Like I wrote above, the aircrafts are in a completely different direction, than the direction the Flak is shooting at. Heavy Flak guns were not shooting on their own, their fire was led by the battery staff, which gave the direction, together with the other important informations to the guns. So all guns should at least shoot roughly in the direction, where the aircraft is.

 

Maybe there was a plane there which you did not see.

 

Hey wait. In BoS will the AI flak target parachutes? 

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15 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Another thing about heavy Flak, that is quite odd is, when you fly an escort mission for bombers, the enemy Flak will, when the bombers approach the target, shoot at the escort fighters, instead of the bombers, which doesn't make sense, as the Flak would want to make the duty for the bombers as hard as possible. Plus the chance of hitting the slow bombers, flying straight in tight formation, is much higher, than hitting the small fast turning fighters above the bombers.

 

I fairly sure the flak will target a particular plane, starting with the first one that comes into it's "Attack Area - Air" command, which is a cylinder,  so fighters could enter it first even if they are actually further away in a straight line from the guns.   It will then stick to firing at that plane until it is out of range or shot down, then look for the next target.  If the escorts were at some point ahead of the bombers, as they often are in career flying their racetrack pattern, then they could trigger the flak first which could still be firing at the escorts when the bombers are overhead.  I could be wrong about that mechanism,  but I have seen flak target the bombers, scoring hits, while on escort missions in career.

 

It would be better if the flak could give priority to bombers, I agree.  

13 hours ago, zdog0331 said:

Or do as they normally did and create area flak for the bombers to run into.  Perhaps 1C could code that in as an option.  would work well for those missions giving a more realistic feel.  I have seen some good flak out there.  There have been some good flak experiences, but currently they just aren't right. 

 

 

What was not right was the old style laser guided flak, even on low AI settings.  You may find it immersive to have lots of flak bursting very near, but if it is you are likely to be hit.  Careers are unplayable if probability of death or capture per sortie gets ridiculously high.   If you want more close bursts set your SP mission flak to "High" and lobby your favourite server to do the same.  

 

I do agree that a box barrage option would be good: instead of the guns tracking individual targets they would fire as fast as possible into a defined area as long as any enemy was in it. LAA guns currently stay facing in the direction of their last target after it has moved out of range: I would rather they reverted to their original heading: think of it as a priority arc.

 

Flak has improved greatly in plausibility over the last year or two but there is still more that could be done.

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21 hours ago, zdog0331 said:

 

This should explain everything

 

Really good video, thanks for sharing it!

 

23 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

It would be nice for sure, but the question is would the game engine handle it well, and indications point to no. Not without a revamp, anyway.

 

I dont know about you guys, but i'd personally be in favor of the game throwing up a bunch of cosmetic effects for the flak and then having occasional shots which are actually simulated right. So maybe you throw 10 guns worth of flak into the air around an aircraft, but then 1 gun is reasonably accurate to score near-hits and hits.

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8 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

 

Really good video, thanks for sharing it!

 

 

I dont know about you guys, but i'd personally be in favor of the game throwing up a bunch of cosmetic effects for the flak and then having occasional shots which are actually simulated right. So maybe you throw 10 guns worth of flak into the air around an aircraft, but then 1 gun is reasonably accurate to score near-hits and hits.

I wouldn't be against it, as long as the rendering wasn't too brutal on system performance.

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49 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

 

Really good video, thanks for sharing it!

 

 

I dont know about you guys, but i'd personally be in favor of the game throwing up a bunch of cosmetic effects for the flak and then having occasional shots which are actually simulated right. So maybe you throw 10 guns worth of flak into the air around an aircraft, but then 1 gun is reasonably accurate to score near-hits and hits.


You mean like making war ambience in a same manner I'd like to see artillery round hit flashes and ground weapons fire on the ground near battlefield. Not necessary inflicting any damage but giving suspension of disbelief (as they say in movie business).

 

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On 1/7/2020 at 5:09 PM, Yogiflight said:

In Netscape's He 111 mission there was quite some more Heavy Flak around Stalingrad.

What I find especially annoying with heavy Flak is, they are shooting all around, but rarely in the area in which the aircrafts, they should be shooting at, are flying. Something like, the enemies are east of the Flak and the Flak is shooting to the north.

Imagine all that flak set on ACE lvl!

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On 1/7/2020 at 9:08 AM, TheWhiteMoose said:

Why is the flak so small in this game. For the immersion it would be so nice to se the flak pounding all around the plane. 
Maybe the flak guys don’t have to be so freakin good and multiply them by x10. What do you guys think?

There is a script mission editors can add to flak which can increase their firing rate by 10x. I used to use it Rise of Flight to create huge flak bursts around airplanes using Low AI setting to compensate. It looked awesome as you could make 4 entities act like 40 were shooting.

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13 minutes ago, SYN_Requiem said:

There is a script mission editors can add to flak which can increase their firing rate by 10x. I used to use it Rise of Flight to create huge flak bursts around airplanes using Low AI setting to compensate. It looked awesome as you could make 4 entities act like 40 were shooting.

And how about performance?

It sure would be quite immersive to have that, flak like in Catch 22!

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4 hours ago, LLv44_Damixu said:


You mean like making war ambience in a same manner I'd like to see artillery round hit flashes and ground weapons fire on the ground near battlefield. Not necessary inflicting any damage but giving suspension of disbelief (as they say in movie business).

 

 

Easy to do - I’ve done this in a few of the Jug missions. I made an explosion generator basically.

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