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Pacific may come yet. Does anyone speak japanese

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Posted (edited)

This may seem like a wierd post so here is the context. The Japanese government recently declassified a lot of the files which include a lot of the data necessary for a pacific theater.  A lot of the information needed is on https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/ Which has the original documents and various aspects such as modifications, performance and other relavent and important specs for the aircraft that the developers need.  However the problem is it is all in Japanese and cannot be translated via google.  The issue is that most of the documents are photo coppies of the originals not just text.  So in order to get the information off of them, you need to speak the language.  Here is an example of some information on the ki-20 https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/aj/meta/imageen_C01003983200?IS_KEY_S1=C01003983200&IS_KIND=SimpleSummary&IS_STYLE=eng&IS_TAG_S1=InfoSDU&

Edited by zdog0331
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1 hour ago, zdog0331 said:

The Japanese government recently declassified a lot of the files which include a lot of the data necessary for a pacific theater. 

 

I thought the USA declassified everything the Japanese had classified in August of 1945 :)

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Would be nice if there's the Hien Tony...

Its actually the reason why I still fly 1946, lol.

 

Wish I speak Japanese...

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, zdog0331 said:

This may seem like a wierd post so here is the context. The Japanese government recently declassified a lot of the files which include a lot of the data necessary for a pacific theater.  A lot of the information needed is on https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/ Which has the original documents and various aspects such as modifications, performance and other relavent and important specs for the aircraft that the developers need.  However the problem is it is all in Japanese and cannot be translated via google.  The issue is that most of the documents are photo coppies of the originals not just text.  So in order to get the information off of them, you need to speak the language.  Here is an example of some information on the ki-20 https://www.jacar.archives.go.jp/aj/meta/imageen_C01003983200?IS_KEY_S1=C01003983200&IS_KIND=SimpleSummary&IS_STYLE=eng&IS_TAG_S1=InfoSDU&

 

Thanks for posting this. My wife would definitely be good help for translating that. However, as far as I'm aware there's no sure word from the devs if they still wish to commit in that direction?

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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28 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Thanks for posting this. My wife would definitely be good help for translating that. However, as far as I'm aware there's no sure word from the devs if they still wish to commit in that direction?

God bless your wife😄

Offer your help in Pacific assistance subforum, even if they don't have plans or intention for Pacific but preparation and having translated materials if they decide to go with it would save a lot of work and resources.

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2 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Thanks for posting this. My wife would definitely be good help for translating that. However, as far as I'm aware there's no sure word from the devs if they still wish to commit in that direction?

I'm sure the Pacific will be after BoN so tell your wife that the community is hoping for her😁

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I know Jason is or was keen on going there. 
But ambitions has a tendency to change in time. 
Maybe 1C is stopping any development there. 
Thing is we do not know what budget they got. 
I do not think the only obstacle was plane blueprints 

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8 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

My wife would definitely be good help for translating that

 

Even if we never get a PTO module, there may be interest in the translated documents. If you and your wife can translate documents that are in the public domain you can create ebooks and sell them on Amazon. Probably not a lot of money to be made, but once enough documents are translated you may find a worthwhile revenue stream.

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5 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

I know Jason is or was keen on going there. 
But ambitions has a tendency to change in time. 
Maybe 1C is stopping any development there. 
Thing is we do not know what budget they got. 
I do not think the only obstacle was plane blueprints 

True.  Though i have to say going through the archives without speaking Japanese is not a good experience.  The issue is that without speaking Japanese you cannot properly search for what you need.  The aircraft specifications, blueprints, bomb loads, and all the other necessary information is out there, but it seems like a major hindrance for 1c.  To properly develop this module you need to hire someone to go through all of this stuff and translate it for them.  Translating is only half of the battle.  Actually finding stuff on the archives can be a pain.  Oddly enough they have a lot of people on the war thunder forums that are pulling up these documents, but they are actually Japanese and can simply search through these archives like i would search through the US archives.  But either way If we can get enough information an a battle specific plane-set, that could help a lot and potentially mean that we get a pacific module in 5 or so years.

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Any chance of a link to wherever this discussion on the material is taking place? I'd be interested to know what is available, and how complete it is, even if it isn't of immediate use to 1C-777.

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27 minutes ago, zdog0331 said:

True.  Though i have to say going through the archives without speaking Japanese is not a good experience.  The issue is that without speaking Japanese you cannot properly search for what you need.  The aircraft specifications, blueprints, bomb loads, and all the other necessary information is out there, but it seems like a major hindrance for 1c.  To properly develop this module you need to hire someone to go through all of this stuff and translate it for them.  Translating is only half of the battle.  Actually finding stuff on the archives can be a pain.  Oddly enough they have a lot of people on the war thunder forums that are pulling up these documents, but they are actually Japanese and can simply search through these archives like i would search through the US archives.  But either way If we can get enough information an a battle specific plane-set, that could help a lot and potentially mean that we get a pacific module in 5 or so years.

There must be some Japanese in il2 community too, to split work with Bilbo and his wife.

 

Good preparation is a job half way done ;)

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The Japan National Archive website is not new, nor has anything been "recently declassified". It is material that has been publicly available for over a decade now.

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On 1/5/2020 at 8:20 AM, No.322_LuseKofte said:

I know Jason is or was keen on going there. 
But ambitions has a tendency to change in time. 
Maybe 1C is stopping any development there. 
Thing is we do not know what budget they got. 
I do not think the only obstacle was plane blueprints 

 

Only posting this as a reminder to keep things in perspective lest any newcomers be mislead about the potential for the PTO (as I was by reading many speculative/hopeful threads here about it).   We  *have* heard a response about the potential of the Pacific theater coming and it's essentially not happening.  To paraphrase, albeit selectively,  it's not possible, the universe has stepped in against it, and "Not making the Pacific is small potatoes."

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"You are surprised I speak your language....you see I was educated in your country at UCLA...."

Tokyo_Joe.png

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Personally I am very divided. I love to get Pacific. But at what cost?  
I was mad when Bobp came instead of it, flying bobp planes I am very disappointed about the P 47 durability and strength. 
It is on the verge of disrespect on behalf of the most durable plane known to man in that period. With a very powerful and durable engine. 
I hold my breath hoping for improvement on its durability and DM until razorback is coming. 
If DM complexity and US craft continue to be treated as glass I am not sure I would cope with a Dauntless looses its wing when someone spit on it. 
 

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51 minutes ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

It is on the verge of disrespect on behalf of the most durable plane known to man in that period. With a very powerful and durable engine. 

 

**cough** Il-2

 

...your argument would be slightly more credible if you acknowledge the aircraft the series is named after (and maybe the Hs-129 for that matter).

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We know what he means for crying out loud - he doesn’t need to type the IL2 disclaimer. 

 

Plus I’m pretty sure IL2’s never attacked in formation with P-47’s for a direct comparison anyway. 

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2 hours ago, Blitzen said:

"You are surprised I speak your language....you see I was educated in your country at UCLA...."

Tokyo_Joe.png

Richard Loo as Tokyo Joe in God Is My Co-pilot. Horrible stereo types but I still enjoy the film.

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2 hours ago, Blitzen said:

"You are surprised I speak your language....you see I was educated in your country at UCLA...."

 

 

And you are a Kingston Trio fan!

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4 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

**cough** Il-2

 

...your argument would be slightly more credible if you acknowledge the aircraft the series is named after (and maybe the Hs-129 for that matter).

Any Il-2 dropped a 500lb bomb on itself and had the pilot walk away? 

 

Have any Il-2 that flew through a flak 88, the gun, not the round, and landed back at base? 

 

The Il-2 had heavy armpit and took a lot of chewing to bring down, but the things that P-47's collided with and got home again after is pretty ridiculous. 

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7 hours ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

 

Only posting this as a reminder to keep things in perspective lest any newcomers be mislead about the potential for the PTO (as I was by reading many speculative/hopeful threads here about it).   We  *have* heard a response about the potential of the Pacific theater coming and it's essentially not happening.  To paraphrase, albeit selectively,  it's not possible, the universe has stepped in against it, and "Not making the Pacific is small potatoes."

 

It makes sense that they don't have it in the works.  Unlike the German, Italian, French, British, and American planes, a lot less has been translated and made avaliable as far as information and specifications leading to a lot of guessing in other games.  Stuff regarding the Japanese planes is tough to find and that was what this post was about.  I personally hope to see a lot more  western front content.  Maybe even some Africa content.  From what I had heard in several posts regarding the topic is that there is no current work going into the pacific right now or any planned for a while at least.  There is a desire to do that theater however which means that it is something that we will have to wait for.  I expect at least 5-10 years before it comes as there is a lot of stuff that they have a lot more accessible information on such as the western front battles.  This was more or less indicating that it may require community support for the pacific to come out due to a lot of that information being buried and very hard to get.  If you really want something sometimes you need to be the one to make that happen and since we as a community seem to want this, perhaps we could get a lot more of the necessary information while they work on some of the other battles that we want.  Can't wait for Normandy.

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Normandy is going to have one of the same problems that the Pacific has...

Ship AI.  As in, LOTS of it.   It will grind this old game engine to a halt in short order if anything resembling reasonable numbers of ships is present off the beaches on D Day.

Just how will the invasion be implemented without ships?

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Posted (edited)

Simply don't depict the landings? It has been done before.

Alternatively, one could have a bunch of static objects...

  

14 hours ago, Voyager said:

Any Il-2 dropped a 500lb bomb on itself and had the pilot walk away? 

 

Have any Il-2 that flew through a flak 88, the gun, not the round, and landed back at base? 

 

The Il-2 had heavy armpit and took a lot of chewing to bring down, but the things that P-47's collided with and got home again after is pretty ridiculous. 

 

I suppose you could make an argument about durability and armour being two separate things... but an Hs-129 made it back with an AP round from a tank stuck *in* it... not through it... but actually trapped in the armour.

 

This is a case where admitting you forgot about those two aircraft or that you exaggerated slightly might be appropriate. However, as I mentioned... durability and armour are not the same thing... so you could try that argument if you want?

 

*edit: I wasn't paying attention and didn't realise I was talking to two people... No.322_LuseKofte neglected the armoured attackers, Voyager suggested that the P-47 was more durable than the Il-2...*

Edited by Avimimus

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Posted (edited)

This could mean that some sort of expansion for instance, early war  or maybe Sino-Japanese stuff with American help could be possible but last I heard Aircraft carriers are not possible within the game engine...best I could come up with was this map, its cap from Operation Toenails and theoretically mean planes such as the SBD, TBF, F4F, F6F OS2U PBY and F4U could take off from Henderson Airbase and strike targets north but its one of the only few options we have if we want the classic aircraft we all know but get around the lack of any Aircraft carriers to put them on 

 

The Dimensions roughly correlate to the Battle of Normandy Map size. Henderson AB is right next to Honiara and you'd be attacking places on New Georgian island, the island with the towns of Peava, Hallsi and Seghe on it

IL-2 Map.PNG

OTN.jpeg

Edited by Southernbear
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On 1/5/2020 at 2:41 PM, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

Wish I speak Japanese...

I do...

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

**cough** Il-2

 

...your argument would be slightly more credible if you acknowledge the aircraft the series is named after (and maybe the Hs-129 for that matter).

I have flown the IL 2 online more than most. I can live with it. You are basicly screwed if attacked by an average pilot anyway. 
I find it very hard to do so with the P 47. It should be able to stand its ground up high. But a spray and pray bullet kills the engine in a second. And that was in a plane the pilot more than happy met opponents head on. 
Legendary planes like the P 47, wildcat Corsair , hellcat, Dauntless. If they gonna have the same treatment. I rather be without. 

Edited by No.322_LuseKofte

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Southernbear said:

its one of the only few options we have if we want the classic aircraft we all know but get around the lack of any Aircraft carriers to put them on 

 

Except, there aren't any Japanese airbases on that map. An expansion with AI only Japanese a/c maybe?

 

 

2 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

But a spray and pray bullet kills the engine in a second.

 

I think those radials by P&W were crazy reliable. I've not flown the P-47 yet in IL-2, mostly because of what I hear about it's survivability. I would like radial engined planes of all kinds to stand up to damage better than inlines. They don't have to be tanks, but should be noticeably better at taking damage. The US tactical airforces traded out P-38s for P-47s because the two inline engines weren't as reliable when damaged as the one radial.

 

They don't need to be toyota truck reliable, but close.

 

 

Edited by cardboard_killer

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8 hours ago, Southernbear said:

This could mean that some sort of expansion for instance, early war  or maybe Sino-Japanese stuff with American help could be possible but last I heard Aircraft carriers are not possible within the game engine...best I could come up with was this map, its cap from Operation Toenails and theoretically mean planes such as the SBD, TBF, F4F, F6F OS2U PBY and F4U could take off from Henderson Airbase and strike targets north but its one of the only few options we have if we want the classic aircraft we all know but get around the lack of any Aircraft carriers to put them on 

 

The Dimensions roughly correlate to the Battle of Normandy Map size. Henderson AB is right next to Honiara and you'd be attacking places on New Georgian island, the island with the towns of Peava, Hallsi and Seghe on it

 

That is actually not a bad idea... one module could develop the basic Pacific/South-Pacific assets, and another module could then add the code for carriers once everything else was finished.... that way the cost would be split over two modules!

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I suppose you could make an argument about durability and armour being two separate things... but an Hs-129 made it back with an AP round from a tank stuck *in* it... not through it... but actually trapped in the armour.

 

What projectile? What caliber? What impact angle? From what gun? From what distance? A M5 stuart is a tank, sure a light tank, but it fires a 37mm gun which cant penetrate 30mm of sloped armor at 2km with its best rounds, and at worst can penetrate a flat 30mm plate at 500m. 

 

Likewise the 75mm gun from the M4 sherman might punch through a flat-on 20mm plate at 3000m, but has about 50-50 odds

 

Just like how .30-06 ball from an M1 Garand will penetrate 1/4" steel within 75 yards, but at 150 it has no chance. 

Edited by Kataphrakt
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Good point... it does seem incredible (literally - lacking credibility)...and it has been ten years since I read it so I both lack the reference and my memory could be off. I'm fallible too, and this may well be a case of that.

 

Hypothetically a dud shell from an infantry gun (76.2mm M1927) could have very low muzzle velocity and might be able to crumple armoured plates in a way that it gets lodged into the airframe with the airframe handling the longitudinal forces? But an AP round seems beyond belief.

 

All in all, it is probably just a garbled retelling of one of the times a Hs-129 was hit by an AP round from an anti-tank gun (at least two cases on record).

 

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I'll believe in the Pacific coming to the BoX series when I see bailed out pilots (in-game) not die the moment they touch the water.  

 

Still, it's nice to know that more detailed documents have been released and it could be easier to piece together a more accurate simulation if it was made. 

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My wife is Japanese but it's not as much assistance as one might assume. She's tried this before and the technical terms are obtuse as all hell (words she'd never seen before and didn't understand in her own language, never mind be able to translate). Between us we were able to guess some of them but it took a long time.

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I know lots of people that speak Japanese but not well enough to ask them about translating WWII stuff!

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Keep in mind that the Japanese language has evolved a lot in the last 75 years, especially on the technical side of things, much moreso than English has.  Consequently, many current speakers have great difficulty with it.  It's even worse for historians trying to read the Japanese Buddhist texts from the pre Shinto era.

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I mean...the reason I said what I said is because at the end of the day...we just need a reason for the planes because that is what we want and probably a map for said planes but other than that we'd be set...so we don't necessarily need a thing like the 'Battle of Midway' and we don't need Carriers so if we can find some sort of campaign that gives us interesting aircraft on both sides and 2 or more land bases, one for each, we'd be set

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8 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Keep in mind that the Japanese language has evolved a lot in the last 75 years, especially on the technical side of things, much moreso than English has.  Consequently, many current speakers have great difficulty with it.  It's even worse for historians trying to read the Japanese Buddhist texts from the pre Shinto era.


Even in Hiragana and Katakana it's difficult; in Kanji each glyph can have multiple meanings, which turns translation into frikkin' tarot.

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Thanks to a few years of Japanese in middle school "to prepare me for a job at nintendo making video games when i grow up", If you hand me a document i can probably read the numbers and then scream "Hadouken" and "Shoryouken" for the all the talky bits.

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