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LUZITANO

Forbidden mission: "The real legend of Y-29"

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Posted (edited)

All the missions honoring Y-29 I've ever flown online have failed... The maps aren't bad, but the "way" the mission happens fails to recreate a P-51s scramble situation against a surprise Luftwaffe attack. I will tell how this happens and someone please tell me that I am wrong because this is what I see, people not starting at Y-29 base, the fighting happening at high altitudes, some times people flying at 10k and instead of the Germans attacking the US bases and for last is the Americans who attack the German bases... How this will work like Y-29 situation? Well it won't work because first I didn't see an online mission with people taking off from Y-29... 

For Y-29 to work, the mission would have to have "nasty" things and permissions, mainly because the servers have no intention of having this kind of feature

1º Y-29 would have to be an active base for players and at the same time an frontal airfield objective
2º To exist the surprise. Germans need airstart. And Aistart is not a feature appreciated by fully realistic servers, while it's the only way to create a situation like Y-29, a fight above that airfield. I always say that, "American players are paying to be shot in the back at this airfield", because you know... it's historic and fun... 
3º Exception to the "do not shoot planes on the ground" rule. Only one exception and people would be contaminated with the habit of shooting planes on the ground, repeating this in other missions ... I'm sure and that's the problem with that exception

So I did this drawing for a while now, but as it will "never pass" anywhere, I brought here for us to discuss
Y29Real.thumb.jpg.332f722f3fec50c176b7fd06a3019a16.jpg
The distance to this airstart would have to be calculated by testing. A sufficient distance for the Germans to reach Y-29 with time for some P-51 to take off.P-51 taking off from Y-29 with special gasoline because they are heros, and a "back base" in St. Trond if people want take off more safely. And finally, if the Y-29 and Y-32 aerodromes were destroyed, the Reds couldn't take off from them

I would love to see this kind of mission, even if it was to be a weekend thing... Y-29 was a cool history, but not happened at 10k alt...

Edited by LUZITANO
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I have it started - won’t be able to finish until I have a few other things completed.

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A historical version of this mission would be a lot of fun in single player.  In multiplayer it would get old really quickly, as neither side would be surprised and the rather one sided setup would lead to a rather one sided result.  The reason that it's "The Legend of Y-29" is because all things being equal, the 487th Fighter Squadron should have been massacred that morning.  Instead the opposite happened.

 

The only way I could imagine it working in multiplayer is if the map was setup as a lengthy Ardennes "Campaign" and at some point (unknown to the players) the Bodenplatte mission would trigger.  When that happened, air starts would become available for the Germans.  The catch would have to be that the Allied airfields would be randomized and some random Allied patrols would be in the air (as there were some Allied aircraft already airborne that morning).  Also the Germans would need to get engaged by their own flak (as actually happened that day).  I think that would create enough surprise and friction on both sides that you'd get an interesting scenario as opposed to a straight vulch fest.  I'm not nearly sharp enough with the mission editor to make all that happen, but I'm sure it would be possible.  The number of various triggers that would be involved makes me feel ill.

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Funnily enough I was just looking at how one might construct the attack on B-78 (Eindhoven) for SP or cinematic purposes just as a stand alone mission.

 

Just as in the OP's case this probably needs an airstart if you want to have the Germans arrive during the period when British Aircraft were taking off, or at least not letting the player lead the German formation.

 

A number of problems: there were well over 200 aircraft on the field, three RAF Regiment LAA squadrons, so up to 36 40mm Bofors (with this inexplicably missing from the BoBP vehicle mix K-61s will have to be used), hundreds of vehicles and acres of stores and tentage.  The way in which destroyed units rapidly disappear also renders it impossible to get the field of wreckage look the Germans actually achieved in this, their most successful attack of the day.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

If you read "Bodenplatte", it turns out that Y-29 wasn't really surprised at all.

 

Two flights of Jugs (390th Fs / 366TH FG) had just taken off (by chance 15 mins early!) to go bomb the Bulge. After doing a course-reversal after take-off*, they flew towards the front and saw heavy flak-activity in the distance. At that time, ze Germans were already attacking Y-32 (mistaking it for Y-29), allowing for enough time to have 12 Mustangs of the 352nd FG take off and prepare for the imminent attack.

 

*The Mustangs were forming up on the western end of the field acc. Robert Brulle - one of the Jug pilots. The Jugs took off east-west.

 

Just to take this into account, you could arrange for P-47 slots with airstarts (all bombed up) and Mustangs on the ground, engines running and on the runway.

 

Edited by Bremspropeller

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Posted (edited)

No matter what you do to try to mix things up, multiplayer in this game always becomes same stuff, different day.

 

It isn't the fault of the game, or even the maps.

Edited by J28w-Broccoli
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I've already made a "Legend of Y29" for the 352ndVFG, my group. It is multiplayer with the 47's having already formed up and coming over Y29 on their way to their bombing mission. You spawn into one of three areas, taxi your plane to the runway and warm up your engine. But you know what happens then. 

The EA are air spawned in two close groups and announced by the Jugs as incoming to Y29. 

We were to fly it near the 75th anniversary of the actual event but due to real life interfering with a number of our pilots, will fly it soon, probably this weekend. If the timing works out as I expect with guys loading and spawning in at various intervals close to me hitting the start button, I'll post it for others to enjoy. 

It isn't completely historical since our members are assigned to the three fighter squadrons, 328th, 486th and 487th and as such will spawn in at three different but close areas.   But with expert settings, you'll need to get in and start your plane quickly and taxi quickly to the runway so as not to be caught in the ground with an ice cold plane. 

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This mission cannot work in the game, as there is no way to simulate poorly trained Luftwaffe pilots that were the sad state of the LW at this point in the war, at least in multiplayer.  In single player you might have a chance of it working, if the Germans were all AI and set mostly to noob settings.

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Just now, BlitzPig_EL said:

This mission cannot work in the game, as there is no way to simulate poorly trained Luftwaffe pilots that were the sad state of the LW at this point in the war, at least in multiplayer.  In single player you might have a chance of it working, if the Germans were all AI and set mostly to noob settings.

Agree, this will be a massacre for the allies

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If you made all the P47s Mustangs instead, or maybe Tempests, you might have a chance, but fully loaded Jugs at low level???  They might as well be flying Ju52s.  The Jug is hopeless in this game.

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Oh me of little belief that the P47 can actually work in a video game environment.

Has any developer in any game ever done a P47 that in game can match the P47's actual real world combat performance?   Nope.

 

And please don't get me wrong, I like the real Thunderbolt, but as a video game pixel plane it will never be a viable choice.

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I thought the attack came from the north, and some germans mistook the airfield above for y-29, thus lowering the # of attacking planes on y-29

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