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SCG_Wulfe

Blackouts due to shock need to be re-worked.

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I had originally posted this in the thread about pilot physiology. However, that thread seems more focused on people's concerns about the G-force modeling which I don't really share.   (I think a few more cues before the limit would be nice but not a deal breaker) I would like discussion about the current modeling of shock due to trauma and it causing blackouts. I also would like the devs to see this and maybe consider re-working it.

 

I have a good deal of firearm experience both inside of the military and outside of it. I am familiar with the effects of shock due to severe trauma. 

 

I'm not suggesting people don't die or pass out from massive trauma due to " getting shot by 30mm and 20mm or .50cals "

 

Let me put it this way. The odds that you are going to experience a shock from severe trauma and black out for a little while and then come-to again to recover your aircraft are very slim. If the injury you have a received is so severe that you instantly pass out, you are gonna stay passed out until you crash or die from blood loss without treatment. For example, a direct hit with a cannon round to the torso. In this case, the game should just treat it as a pilot kill and move on.  

 

The exception to this would be if something strikes the pilot's head hard enough to knock them unconscious which correlates closely to the "blacked out" effect we see in game depicting shock. This would be a fairly rare occurrence as something with significant kinetic energy would need to specifically strike the head hard enough to concuss the brain but not hard enough to kill. This could stay in the game as a potential outcome.

 

What we see currently in game is this "blacked out" effect being attributed to many pilot injuries which are simply shrapnel injury due to close proximity fragmentation or appendage trauma. In this case, a more realistic depiction of the shock effect which is actually experienced would be a narrowing and blurring of vision (other appropriate vision effects could cause motion sickness), loss of precise motor control, and hearing loss/tinnitus. I think it would add far more depth and realism if we portrayed shock as such. 

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In a QMB, I once shot down the opponent and proceeded to land....in an enemy field. As soon as I stopped, I got hit by light flak. I then did an experiment: how long can I sit here and take it?

 

Turns out, quite a lot. I took dozens of hits, with the peculiar black out and buzzer sound... only to wake up again in a few seconds, alive, again and again! The only indication of injury was a persistent red filter, probably sluggish controls too (didn't check). If the pilot sufferred dozens of flesh wounds, there is no way the injuries could be considered non-incapacitating.

 

 

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Just now, danielprates said:

In a QMB, I once shot down the opponent and proceeded to land....in an enemy field. As soon as I stopped, I got hit by light flak. I then did an experiment: how long can I sit here and take it?

 

Turns out, quite a lot. I took dozens of hits, with the peculiar black out and buzzer sound... only to wake up again in a few seconds, alive, again and again! The only indication of injury was a persistent red filter, probably sluggish controls too (didn't check). If the pilot sufferred dozens of flesh wounds, there is no way the injuries could be considered non-incapacitating.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I am saying though. This is not how it works in real life. You don't take injury, instantly black out, come-to again, take more injury, instantly black out, come-to once again and rinse and repeat. If you black out instantly due to extreme trauma, odds are you are not waking up again without medical treatment asap. The game should treat those types of injury as instant death. However, in most cases where the game is issuing shock caused black-out, I'd argue realism and game play would be better served by an animation where you can still control your plane albeit under the influence of a shock effect. 

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1 hour ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

The odds that you are going to experience a shock from severe trauma and black out for a little while and then come-to again to recover your aircraft are very slim.

 

I think the last bit there is the key part. I have seen a few accounts of people going uncon and then recovering but for the most part these are situations where the recovery takes too long relative to this game for it to be relevant vs immediate pilot death, or where the person might be conscious, but so badly wounded they arent going to be able to move, let alone pilot a plane before they see a hospital and several months of recovery. 

 

Generally, (from what i've been told by Registered nurses) any blacking out outside of G-loc or something like a seizure or stroke (specific types) is a massive thing to have happen.

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Posted (edited)

The newish black out effect is way over done its like my pilot is an average joe with no G training. I've flown aerobatics for years, until I recently sold my Yak-52. I could pull 6+ -3 during aerobatics and not really have any effect other than the feeling of G forces.(Im 30 BTW average weight and don't work out) Where as the pilot in IL2 starts to see the effects around 3 to 4G (my best guess) If your a fighter pilot and blacking out at that, or even seeing the first signs then you need to go to bombers or transports. My 75 year old father could pull 5+ with no issue. Its all about muscle control and the pilots in WW2 knew that but the pilots in IL2 seem to not.

Edited by II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33
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6 minutes ago, Kataphrakt said:

 

I think the last bit there is the key part. I have seen a few accounts of people going uncon and then recovering but for the most part these are situations where the recovery takes too long relative to this game for it to be relevant vs immediate pilot death, or where the person might be conscious, but so badly wounded they arent going to be able to move, let alone pilot a plane before they see a hospital and several months of recovery. 

 

Generally, (from what i've been told by Registered nurses) any blacking out outside of G-loc or something like a seizure or stroke (specific types) is a massive thing to have happen.

 

Exactly, I'm not saying that people can't come back from massive trauma caused unconsciousness. But it's almost always not a quick pass-out and come-to experience. (This differs from unconsciousness due to prolonged steady blood loss which can result in intermittent consciousness, if they wanted to model that occurring later as you begin to bleed-out, that would be a welcome and realistic addition.)

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"my best guess"

 

I'm  not here to bash

but guesstimation is not optimal...

there is a lot of talk on other threads you might want to check.

But assuming there is something wrong and need to be fixed without having all the info is not the best point to start a thread.

 

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Some of us think it's excellent the way it is. . . . . just sayn

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I thought from one of the more recent patch notes that they had tweaked this somewhat, so that shells landing near you didn't knock you out as frequently? I haven't played much in the last few months unfortunately so I haven't got a feel for it firsthand.

I have noticed that I have a higher tendency to get wounded and especially pilot killed since the new pilot physiology came into effect, so I believe the pilot is a little less resilient than before, at least to HE and shrapnel. That being said, if you are not outright killed it does not seem to be possible for the pilot to actually 'bleed out' over time.

I like the idea of close explosions and shock inducing blurred/tunnel vision and hearing loss in-game, rather than the total black outs. As you said, if a shell goes off close enough for you to black out, its probably because you're already dead, or at least no longer capable of piloting the airplane.

Obviously there are limits to how realistic wounding mechanics can be in-game because we have to simulate physical impacts on the pilot that you can't really feel, so the only avenues available to the game are sight, sounds, and having impacts on controllability of the airplane. And we have to do this without inducing motion sickness in people who use head tracking and VR.

11 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Exactly, I'm not saying that people can't come back from massive trauma caused unconsciousness. But it's almost always not a quick pass-out and come-to experience. (This differs from unconsciousness due to prolonged steady blood loss which can result in intermittent consciousness, if they wanted to model that occurring later as you begin to bleed-out, that would be a welcome and realistic addition.)

Agreed. As you mentioned earlier, a sharp kinetic impact might provoke a short term loss of consciousness, but that kind of impact in a combat situation would be more likely from striking your head on the canopy or something than from any impact by enemy fire. If you get knocked out from being shot while flying a plane you are probably not going to be waking up...

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I thought from one of the more recent patch notes that they had tweaked this somewhat, so that shells landing near you didn't knock you out as frequently? I haven't played much in the last few months unfortunately so I haven't got a feel for it firsthand.

 

 

I don't recall seeing this in any recent patch. Anecdotally, I am still experiencing many cases of injury resulting in instant blackout.... wait... and regain consciousness. 

 

Otherwise, I definitely agree with everything you said.

 

*Edit* you were right, found it. Though I don't think it did enough to address the problem. 

 

Update 4.002

Quote

Other changes
63. The excessive effect of concussion and possible loss of consciousness after HE hits at a tank or aircraft has been removed if the player or AI weren't wounded by these hits.

 

The problem with this is that pilots are still losing consciousness from "concussion" if they are wounded by it. This is not realistic as we've discussed and I'd like to see it go to a shock effect. Otherwise the effect should be a 'pilot kill'.

 

Pilot kills should be caused by the following: direct head shots or direct torso hits with cannons. Other torso hits with MG should quickly bleed-out depending on damage percentage done but not be instant(ideally even a torso hit with a low damage percentage would be a slow bleed-out). All other wounding should result in blood loss at a rate determined by damage done and the potential for a 'shock effect' as mentioned. 

Edited by SCG_Wulfe
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I also fly real airplanes  3 to 4 times per week, military trainer CJ 6 , pull Gs and think what is modeled is ts great.

Best addition to the game, no more UFO unrealistic and  incredible moves.

Air combat is more interesting and realistic.

 

When we do aerobatics we anticipate and prepare for the maneuver, in combat you are not planning a routine of maneuvers, at attacking or defending you are improvising on the go, and that does make a big difference.

Also the speeds most of the time are almost double of a Yak 52 or CJ 6 doing aerobatics.

 

Hope developers dont change this, most people seem to like it.

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10 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

I don't recall seeing this in any recent patch. Anecdotally, I am still experiencing many cases of injury resulting in instant blackout.... wait... and regain consciousness. 

 

Otherwise, I definitely agree with everything you said.

I just went back and looked through the patch notes and did not find any mention of it, so you're not crazy. 

I somehow feel certain that I saw it in patch notes or a developer diary or something but I can't find any evidence of it! So, things point to ME being crazy. Which is not altogether unexpected.

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1 minute ago, RedKestrel said:

I just went back and looked through the patch notes and did not find any mention of it, so you're not crazy. 

I somehow feel certain that I saw it in patch notes or a developer diary or something but I can't find any evidence of it! So, things point to ME being crazy. Which is not altogether unexpected.

 

Haha whoops you threw in the towel and posted too soon. See my edit I just made above. 

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1 hour ago, II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33 said:

Where as the pilot in IL2 starts to see the effects around 3 to 4G (my best guess)

 

Actually it's around 6 g in game. 

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1 hour ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

This is exactly what I am saying though

 

Yes, I was agreeing with you. Injury modeling feels off. A lot of what should kill you outright, is resulting a mere temporary or partial incapacitation.

 

I think most ww2 aerial ammo would kill the pilot it it hit him directly in the body. If not instantly, pretty soon due to blood loss. Those smaller, surviveable injuries we read about every now and then in the history books are more likelly result of small shrapnel, small fragments of a bullet or small bits of the airplane itself.  I am not saying it was impossible to survive a direct gunshot, but I am sure it was a freak result and not the norm. The good old 20mm to the chest, I'm not even discussing....! 

 

I imagine damage modeling does not compute what is a gunshot that hits the body, and what is a hit that hits the plane and fragments are what actually got to hit the body. I think it is too much to change the whole system, but perhaps the percentage of surviveability odds could be tweaked to a lower end of the spectrum. A lot lower.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

outright killed it does not seem to be possible for the pilot to actually 'bleed out' over time.

It could have been lag, but in about the middle of December I was doing a jabo 190 attack on combat box and was severely injured causing my pilot to pass out. Somehow I woke up in somewhat level flight despite missing most of my control surfaces and slowly due to the injury turned the plane towards friendly lines, but just died randomly in mid air while making my way back. Stats indicated I was not jumped on my way back. I’m not sure but it seemed like I bleed out mid flight. 

 

I think this was the sortie, guess it was lag or something

http://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/255453/?tour=16

Edited by Hajo_Garlic

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Please fix the blackout effect due to shell impact, it's very exaggerated right now.

 

 

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No offenses, but a Yak-52 flies at a fraction of the speed we do in-game.

 

Judging how many Gs you're pulling in a given situation based on the movement of the plane can be quite deceiving. If you are used to a certain pitch movement producing a certain G-force in the Yak-52 at 250kph, the effect of the same movrment is gonna be drastically different in the Tempest at 500kph.

 

I honestly think you think that you're pulling far fewer Gs than you actually are when flying in the game.

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16 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

I honestly think you think that you're pulling far fewer Gs than you actually are when flying in the game.

 

Almost certainly

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1 hour ago, danielprates said:

I imagine damage modeling does not compute what is a gunshot that hits the body, and what is a hit that hits the plane and fragments are what actually got to hit the body. I think it is too much to change the whole system, but perhaps the percentage of surviveability odds could be tweaked to a lower end of the spectrum. A lot lower.

 

Yeah... Maybe there could be a middle ground..you're impaired, you see blurry, I don't know....

 

I do think a lot of pilot's deaths are due to "indirect hits" that shouldn't cause instant death..

 

I'll often bail out as soon as I'm hit because I know that I'm lucky enough already to have survived the first bullet... I so often get killed on first shot from very far away sometime, from angles that just shouldn't be lethal..

 

I've read enough real accounts from real WWI pilots to know that, while pilot's death was a thing,  it wasn't to that point. 

 

And ..may I dare say that I feel like german aircrafts might be more prone to this ? Again the FW comes to mind.. WWII pilots clearly say that the pilot had good protection... yet it's probably the aircraft in which you'll feel like you're the least protected... I didn't fear death as much when flying red.. maybe the vodka though ?

 

Anyway... just my 2 cents..

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3 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

I also fly real airplanes  3 to 4 times per week, military trainer CJ 6 , pull Gs and think what is modeled is ts great.

Best addition to the game, no more UFO unrealistic and  incredible moves.

Air combat is more interesting and realistic.

 

When we do aerobatics we anticipate and prepare for the maneuver, in combat you are not planning a routine of maneuvers, at attacking or defending you are improvising on the go, and that does make a big difference.

Also the speeds most of the time are almost double of a Yak 52 or CJ 6 doing aerobatics.

 

Hope developers dont change this, most people seem to like it.

amen to that.

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I have no personal experience with G forces beyond whatever my Corolla can give me on the highway on-ramp :) ... However, the way that they modeled this new effect was based on three independent studies done on human physiology and the effects of G forces. I'd say that's about as good as it gets. Now if you had another study to throw into the mix with different results I think that'd be interesting too.

 

IMHO, I think it's one of the best core updates as it forces you not only to work with the physics of the aircraft in the dogfight but also the pilot's health and physiology. Yes your aircraft can make that corner but you'll black out doing it so a different tactic and technique is required. The enemy pilot has to contend with this too.

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1 hour ago, Turban said:

 

 

And ..may I dare say that I feel like german aircrafts might be more prone to this ? Again the FW comes to mind.. WWII pilots clearly say that the pilot had good protection... yet it's probably the aircraft in which you'll feel like you're the least protected... I didn't fear death as much when flying red.. maybe the vodka though ?

 

The German fighters - 109 and 190 - are small compared to most of their opponents. How much smaller depends on the angle etc, but an Fw190 is considerably smaller (~10%) than a Spitfire or P-51 and much smaller (>30%)  than a Tempest,P-47 or P-38, while a 109 is smaller still.

 

Your pilot, on the other hand, is the same size in each case.  So German fighters get hit less often, but a larger proportion of hits on the German planes are going to be directly on, or close to, the pilot.  

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59 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

IMHO, I think it's one of the best core updates as it forces you not only to work with the physics of the aircraft in the dogfight but also the pilot's health and physiology. Yes your aircraft can make that corner but you'll black out doing it so a different tactic and technique is required. The enemy pilot has to contend with this too.

 

Agreed, leave it exactly as it is.

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What is unrealistic in this game is not the G limits, its how they are implemented. 

 

I can pull a 7G for two second "jerk" and the black out effect lags by 2-3 seconds. After what the blacks out lasts for 10+ second even when i am pulling 0 G

 

This is not how it works, no matter what "secrit" documents one digs up. 

 

 

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The damage blackout is most stupid thing they added here. Trauma induced LOC is most of the time due to shock to main circulatory system responsible supplying blood to brain (most of the time fatal if results in bleeding) and brain circulatory system induced shock, that is also usually fatal if it is due to explosion. 

 

This cumulative effect that causes you to black out form 10 shrapnel's in your ass is even more unreasonable. Human psychology is designed not to black out, even the shock is there not to make you lose consciousness, but to prevent catastrophic loss of blood that will make you black out (before you can kill the saber tooth tiger, and then die, but saving your progeny).

Its only when the parts of the circulatory system that feeds brain its blood get shocked, does one lose consciousness. 

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14 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

What is unrealistic in this game is not the G limits, its how they are implemented. 

 

I can pull a 7G for two second "jerk" and the black out effect lags by 2-3 seconds. After what the blacks out lasts for 10+ second even when i am pulling 0 G

 

This is not how it works, no matter what "secrit" documents one digs up. 

 

 

Why is that unrealistic?

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22 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

What is unrealistic in this game is not the G limits, its how they are implemented. 

 

I can pull a 7G for two second "jerk" and the black out effect lags by 2-3 seconds. After what the blacks out lasts for 10+ second even when i am pulling 0 G

 

This is not how it works, no matter what "secrit" documents one digs up. 

 

[Citation Needed]

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I had to go through the centrifuge 3 times in my short USAF/ANG gig and NOT because i liked it 😉

 

...F-16 profile

 

Flunked royally twice (got the videos, great party material, btw), and finally passed after got in better shape..

 

I am not saying i am the world expert on simulating GLOC, but I really think BOX has it pretty darn close..

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm also an aerobatic pilot ... well, 10 years ago  😪 and have flown Extra, Pitts, L39 and Super Decathalons. I have experienced grey out (no GLOC) at about 6-7 Gs. I have pulled momentary 9-10 Gs without ill effect.

In my opinion the most glaring mistake in the current modeling is the accumulation. After just one or two events the grey out becomes MUCH more prevalent and doesn't get any better. I was not the most athletically in shape but I don't recall ever having difficulty in shaking it off after just a few moments (30 sec?). Nausea was a bigger problem. Once that sets in, it's best to head home.

 

EDIT:

 

I guess people experience differently. 

Edited by II./JG1_Vonrd
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

Yes, I was agreeing with you. Injury modeling feels off. A lot of what should kill you outright, is resulting a mere temporary or partial incapacitation.

 

I think most ww2 aerial ammo would kill the pilot it it hit him directly in the body. If not instantly, pretty soon due to blood loss. Those smaller, surviveable injuries we read about every now and then in the history books are more likelly result of small shrapnel, small fragments of a bullet or small bits of the airplane itself.  I am not saying it was impossible to survive a direct gunshot, but I am sure it was a freak result and not the norm. The good old 20mm to the chest, I'm not even discussing....! 

 

I imagine damage modeling does not compute what is a gunshot that hits the body, and what is a hit that hits the plane and fragments are what actually got to hit the body. I think it is too much to change the whole system, but perhaps the percentage of surviveability odds could be tweaked to a lower end of the spectrum. A lot lower.


I gotta say I disagree. Instant pilot death should only occur when head is hit, or extreme trauma to Center mass of torso (heart, lungs, spine) in these cases instant blackout or instant death are applicable. I think instant death makes more sense than instant blackout since you won’t wake up anyhow. 
 

What is happening right now, is that far too often, non fatal hits are causing instant blackout. This pretty much never happens in real life. Any bullet or shrapnel injury to any part of the body other than what I mentioned is not going to result in instant death but rather conscious and variable rates of blood loss leading to eventual death if not treated. 
 

Ideally, the game would be far more interesting and realistic if pilots could remain conscious and in control of their aircraft with a shock effect that lasts similarly to the current blackout effect. After this, the rate of blood loss would determine their ability to make it home before death with the potential for intermittent losses of consciousness or maybe just vision from blood loss as your situation becomes more dire. (Just think of the stress of landing the plane while you can’t see properly and are fading in and out of conciousness)

Edited by SCG_Wulfe

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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

[Citation Needed]

 

How soon the person regain consciousness when then G loads drop to 1 G in the centrifuge? 

 

Now please tell me what is the difference of 6G in plane versus the centrifuge. 

 

Even more so when you do the high G jerk, and then you black out when you are still well in your "reserves" according the documents devs presented us. And you black out for long even if it you let off the G's... 

1 hour ago, SCG_Tzigy said:

I had to go through the centrifuge 3 times in my short USAF/ANG gig and NOT because i liked it 😉

 

...F-16 profile

 

Flunked royally twice (got the videos, great party material, btw), and finally passed after got in better shape..

 

I am not saying i am the world expert on simulating GLOC, but I really think BOX has it pretty darn close..

 

 

How soon you regain your consciousness after the G loads drop?

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Why is that unrealistic?

 

Because you have a short energy reserves brains and eyes can use even when circulation is compromised. If citations you are after, i believe devs posted some that have it explained. 

 

What is wrong in here is how the "jerks" and momentary high loads and the length of the blackout that follows after you totally ease off the G loads. Sustained G loading is handled well.

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34 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

What is happening right now, is that far too often, non fatal hits are causing instant blackout. This pretty much never happens in real life. Any bullet or shrapnel injury to any part of the body other than what I mentioned is not going to result in instant death but rather conscious and variable rates of blood loss leading to eventual death if not treated. 
 

Ideally, the game would be far more interesting and realistic if pilots could remain conscious and in control of their aircraft with a shock effect that lasts similarly to the current blackout effect. After this, the rate of blood loss would determine their ability to make it home before death with the potential for intermittent losses of consciousness or maybe just vision from blood loss as your situation becomes more dire. (Just think of the stress of landing the plane while you can’t see properly and are fading in and out of conciousness)

 

I think what is being modeled here is not loss of consciousness from splinter wounds, but concussion from blast from close HE hits, which is an entirely real effect quite independent of whether you get hit by a projectile.  Not saying it is modeled right, but there are two separate effects to consider. 

 

The mechanism you suggest for hits is all pretty much how RoF managed wound effects IIRC, plus heartbeat sounds. (Or was that RB3D?)  Which is fine for those cases where you are hit by a bullet or shell splinter. 

 

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Posted (edited)

This is difficult, I am not able to say wether it is realistic or off. 
My feelings is when you combine PK and this effect I feel it happens a lot. 
I do not think that feeling is enough in order to change it. Feelings have not yet made any changes in this game

Edited by No.322_LuseKofte

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Is hypoxia modelled in game ?  At high altitude with damaged oxygen or supply runs out... does the pilot black out?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

What is unrealistic in this game is not the G limits, its how they are implemented. 

 

I can pull a 7G for two second "jerk" and the black out effect lags by 2-3 seconds. After what the blacks out lasts for 10+ second even when i am pulling 0 G

 

This is not how it works, no matter what "secrit" documents one digs up. 

 

The delay between the pull and G effects on the body is normal. 

Also, in my game, the pilot won't have a G lock just after 2sec at 7G. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Finkeren said:

I honestly think you think that you're pulling far fewer Gs than you actually are when flying in the game.

 

For sure.

 

 

11 hours ago, II./JG53Lutzow_z06z33 said:

Where as the pilot in IL2 starts to see the effects around 3 to 4G (my best guess)

 

It's more than that. From my tests I found the grey out start to appear at 4,5G.

 

 

And remember that whatever your aerobatic experience (even when you are world champion): 

 

6 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

However, the way that they modeled this new effect was based on three independent studies done on human physiology and the effects of G forces.

 

Edited by F/JG300_Faucon
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54 minutes ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

 

The delay between the pull and G effects on the body is normal. 

Also, in my game, the pilot won't have a G lock just after 2sec at 7G. 

 

 

 

The "jerk", or a momentary high G pull can cause quite long gLOC even if you stop pulling G's in this game. And the delayed effect is normal as in you eat your anaerobic energy reserves, but only if you go over the reserves, not every time i do a jerk lasting 2 seconds. Letting off the G's to let the blood flow should regain consciousness a bit more reliably. 

 

I'd much rather they model the high G recovery from short strains as a short LOC and then groggy state of pilot as the blood flow is restoring the oxygen instead of long LOC. 

My experience in LOC situation is that the after effect of LOC are disorientation and gradual recovery of facilities of reasoning, but not total loss of control. 

 

I guess my main gripe is that this system still lacks the nuance of the way a humans deals with g's, its not bad, its just not refined. 

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I agree with all this, frankly I feel there needs to be a bleed out mechanic in general but every time I've blacked out due to shell hits (admittedly in the 262 it doesn't happen often but it has at least twice) the stick is locked into the last position I did...so rather than going to neutral or slightly forward neutral quite often I'll be in a turn get it and find my plane once I come-to in a 80 degree climb at like 2-3km at which point I just nose over and there is no more threat...I have never died to this mechanic yet 

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Posted (edited)

@SCG_Wulfe I get it now. What you are suggesting, which I agree, is that the injury model should factor in more variables and inputs, and also, more types of resulting effects, and tweaking duration of said effects. It would be great indeed. Would require quite an improvement though. IIRC, now what we have is a collider or hit box, and when the bullet passes through it, a random injury will happen, maybe the type of ammo hitting provokes different odds (i.e., death being more likelly with a larger round). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it works like that. Well, for that system to be more accurate, two simple things could be easily done: a) death should be more likelly, I altogether think I am surviving too often!; b) blackouts and redouts should more oftenly lead to death quicker.

 

Simpler than what the OP is suggesting, I agree, and a half-measure. 

 

Edit: maybe also some deadly stacking effect? Being hit once is not fatal enough as I see it, but being hit 10 times only to have yet another redout is unnaceptable.

Edited by danielprates

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