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Need HELP!!! P-51 not possible to Trim for level flight


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Hallo, this my third post about trimming...no answer until now. PLEASE HELP. Almost all planes are impossible to trim for level flight (exeptions Bf-109s) Fw-190, P-47, P-51 are impossible to trim for level flight at high speeds (up from 300 km/h) and specially the p-51 is impossible to trim at all - the trim weel is moving but doesn't matter if NH or TH the p-51 goes nose up. I need help to solve this problem cause it makes a flight with the p-51 very unpleasend. I don't understand why it is like this. At least I want to know if this is just a problem on my configuration (i have special issues with my joystick as well, i have to disconnect before i can leave the game cause a process is waiting for something and only after disconnecting i can leave the mission) or does anyone have the same trimming problem? PLEASE HELP. I put all trimming controls on the keyport: shift-up/shift-down and strg-up/strg-down depending on aircraft type. Here also a picture of the fw-190 and at maximum down trim position. But as u can see on the trim-display the pointer is only in the middle of the upper part and it should be at the end of the scale. FW190_Trim01.jpg.2e5f3dde50ba41f3a3c1405757784c6b.jpg

 

In the p-51 the the pointer goes down to the end of the scale but no difference at all. I hope someone can give me a adivicw or explanation. THANX.

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Without more I’m not sure. I trim the 51 level or for constant climb all the time.

 

I guess the first question is if you have the hud on, does the pop up on the side of the screen show you actually trimming the aircraft?

 

Next if it is showing you trim are you giving the plane time to settle? I usually hold the plane at my desired attitude trim release, hold and retrim until it doesn’t move.

 

Are you accelerating while trimming?

 

finally did you check your key binds and make sure there is no conflict with the trim from other devices?

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When you trimm your plane, she will not settle right away. I.E. I want to climb, I have some speed on start, then trimm, and plane starts to go up. Then plane settle in some optimal position. But then my speed drops, and I have to adopt trim. Then again, until plane have constant speed, angle and climb speed. 

But that is not over, plane performance changes with altitude, and you have to adopt your trim again and again.

 

In short, do not expect trimm to be autopilot.

 

PS: P51 is unstable with more than 75% fuel, it is recommended not to use more if you want to do dogfights (got that on youtube, & forgot source..)

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On 1/7/2020 at 1:34 AM, Brzi_Joe said:

 

 

PS: P51 is unstable with more than 75% fuel, it is recommended not to use more if you want to do dogfights (got that on youtube, & forgot source..)

It's mentioned in the tech specs in the game as well. Its because the rear tank throws off the centre of gravity, and when it has more than 4 gallons or something in it the plane is unstable. The game makes this tank drain first automatically and at 75% fuel in-game the tank is nearly empty. Its fully empty at 68%.

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Thanks for your answer. Yes, I see the change of trim in % on the right side of the screen.Yes i give time for the trim to work and i dont accelerate while trimming. My keybindings should be ok. Cause the trimming is quite fine on other airplanes like the Me262, or Bf 109s and all the older planes. Trimming does not show any effect on this planes: p51, p38. Shows a little effect on p47, fw190. Dont know how is it possible that it doesnt work on my system but for others it seeme to work. The p38 is almost not flyable cause this plane has a strong tendency to go nose up. Trimming shows no effect in up and down direction. maybe something on my installation is wrong but actually everythingelse is working fine. Anyway thanks for trying to help. I will try with less fuel on the specific aircrafts, maybe this will help.

Edited by Berimbau
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Do you have a FFB2 or other force feedback stick ? Because if you don´t have one, the trim cannot work as it should, as it cannot bring the stick into the aerodynamic neutral position.

See it like that: the trim takes the force from a deflected elevator, but it stays deflected. If you have to fight the spring at that deflection, it feels as if the trim wouldn´t work.

The sense of a FFB stick is, that this neutral position is set. The shaking on the ground is nice, but irrelevant.

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18 hours ago, Quax said:

Do you have a FFB2 or other force feedback stick ? Because if you don´t have one, the trim cannot work as it should, as it cannot bring the stick into the aerodynamic neutral position.

See it like that: the trim takes the force from a deflected elevator, but it stays deflected. If you have to fight the spring at that deflection, it feels as if the trim wouldn´t work.

The sense of a FFB stick is, that this neutral position is set. The shaking on the ground is nice, but irrelevant.

Thats the best explanation to the problem and i use just a gamepad. This must be the solution. When i get a different joystick i will try again. Thanx to all...

Edited by Berimbau
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Fun with trimming the plane.... 

 

Can’t fully trim unless your power is set, throttle, rpm and not changing

Can’t fully trim unless your speed has settled in and the speed is not changing.

Achieve these 2 things maintaining level flight will require back pressure or forward pressure on the stick to maintain level flight.

 

Now keeping speed and power the same, trim nose up/down until your stick is neutral and your still maintaining same power and speed. Your now trimmed.

 

After you trimmed for that power/speed/altitude. If you allow the nose to pitch up or down changing your speed will making you think you need to trim more, level out and wait for the speed to settle back in before making trim adjustments.

 

If you change the power, that will change your speed, you will need to trim again…

 

You don’t need force feedback to know if your stick is neutral and the nose of your plane is not going up or down. (I’ll assume you know if pulling back or pushing forward on your stick base on spring resistance.) Fingertip flying, hands free will tell you what’s going on with the trim.

 

The longer it takes a plane to settle into a speed for level flight based on a specific power setting at any specific altitude, the longer it will take you to trim out the plane. Can’t fully trim until the speed stops changing, and no power adjustments are being made.

 

If I’m in the P51, 2700 rpm, 44-46” mp/throttle, level flight…

When I climb at 180 mph then transition into level flight, it takes a while to reach full speed for level flight, might be at 250-275 mph, then slowly reaches around 300-ish mph.(varies based on weight) I recommend trying 50% fuel, no bombs, then test out the plane. Trim for best climb, level out, trim for level flight, etc.

 

I will be trimming the plane throughout the climb to level flight transitions as needed until I’m in level flight and the speed stops changing.

 

When the plane finally settles into its speed for that altitude and that power setting. I no longer must keep trimming the plane and just use my fingertips on the stick to fly the plane. Very relaxing.

 

Note: P51 has elevator, aileron, and rudder trim for a reason…

 

Tendencies …

More power nose goes up, less power nose goes down – so set the power and leave it

More speed the nose goes up, less speed the nose goes down – so you must settle into your speed.

More weight – (less responsive to trimming) more likely to need to trim nose up (depending on the plane and fuel tank placement)

Less weight – (more responsive to trimming) less nose up trim, more sensitive to trimming in general.

Etc.  

 

Hope that helps.

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  • 2 weeks later...

For fun and practice,

 

Take off and trim for best climb speed and do 1-2 circuits climbing hands free, rudders only. Some planes like the Mk.VB I can trim it out and take my hand off the stick, then continue to climb circling the airfield using only my rudder pedals only to steer the plane. I usually shoot for 180 mph, though its best climb speed is 160 mph. I take off/ turn cross/ downwind leg / by the end of the downwind maybe turning base in the circuit as I continue to climb, I have my nose trimmed up almost full and it settles in and I can take my hand off the stick. 

 

As you steer with your feet you can control the speed using your bank. If you straighten out on upwind leg and actually have wind you will notice more climb and drop in speed, so rudder to turn a bit and decrease your climb, turn to much increase speed and climb rate, etc. But you get a great feel for trimming the plane. 

 

Also this flying straight, trim the best you can for a best climb, then just use your pedals, let the plane climb and speed drop until it gets closer to stall or the nose starts to drop, speed increases, nose rises, etc. You will want to grab the stick, don't do it (unless that's where your trim is) See how close you can trim for hands free with the least amount of speed difference as the nose rises and fall during hands free flight. 

 

Blackouts - you will be surprise how much having your nose trimmed up can increase blackout. 

 

Put any plane in a steady hard turn to hold yourself on the edge of the blackout, grey going black, just where you can hold it for several seconds. 

Once your there, keep the stick steady and trim the nose up and down..... you will see the blackout softly increase/decrease.  

 

I still get surprised when I hear pilots say they never use trim... you can fly without trimming, but why. 😉 

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