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FAE_Cazador

"Iron Pe-2" Damage Model, video enclosed.

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I would kindly ask Devs to check Damage Model of Pe-2. One can collide wing to wing against a Pe-2 and you lose yours, but hers shows not a single scratch and keeps flying happily. Please see this video, enclosed. 

 

This is not a lag or connection problem IMHO.

 

.NTRK file is available for further investigation, please let me know if you need it.

WOL collision_with_Pe-2.zip

Edited by FAE_Cazador
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Hi mate. If it is MP. It perfectly can be lag/connection/etc

 

I have seen perfectly normal and expected beaviour from crashes or "touching" of planes on MP, and I have seen plenty of crazy things. Most if not all on MP

 

Of the top of my head. I have seen a 110 (me) head on/ram a yak

The yak kept flying perfectly, the 110 exploded mid air.

I have seen a ju87 (me)clip with the wing a a20 engine, head on. The a20 exploded.

 

I have been hit/ramed and exploded mid air AFTHER I passed the enemy on a head on.

 

As far as I know. Damage calculation is done client side. So you might se a crash, and die, and the other guy might see a clean pass and nothing happens.

It's not always. It's not just the pe2, but it does happen.

 

Dont get too worked up by it

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You hit the back of his wing with the front of yours.

Your smaller wing spar took the full force of the impact.

His larger dual wing spars here protected from the impact by the trailing edge of the wing.

 

It's not a surprise your wing came off and not his.

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1 hour ago, FAE_Cazador said:

I would kindly ask Devs to check Damage Model of Pe-2. One can collide wing to wing against a Pe-2 and you lose yours, but hers shows not a single scratch and keeps flying happily. Please see this video, enclosed. 

 

This is not a lag or connection problem IMHO.

 

.NTRK file is available for further investigation, please let me know if you need it.

WOL collision_with_Pe-2.zip 2.69 MB · 4 downloads

Both planes should have gone down, both missing main part of one wing.

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30 minutes ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

As far as I know. Damage calculation is done client side. So you might se a crash, and die, and the other guy might see a clean pass and nothing happens.

It's not always. It's not just the pe2, but it does happen.

 

Dont get too worked up by it

 

^ This. It is a direct consequence of requiring aircraft to respond 'instantaneously' in a multiplayer where the information you have available about the position of other aircraft is subject to a time delay. It simply isn't possible to have both immediate response and to have both players see exactly the same events. This is a limitation imposed by real-world physics rather than by game code.

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43 minutes ago, 4thFG_Cpt_D_S_Gentile said:

Both planes should have gone down, both missing main part of one wing.

 

Agreed. I've had a lot of collisions in the past year of playing. Every single time I've collided with a Russian plane at low to moderate speed (around 350kph or lower) my aircraft explodes and turns to nothing while the Russian plane goes along as if nothing happened. This is not the same against USA or British planes. When I've collided with them, they are damaged and I do not suffer instant explosion. Instead, both of our planes are damaged and we both crash somewhat realistically. Nobody explodes into dust in mid air. The exception to this is when I've collided while in 262 at very high speed.

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How bout they just swap the pe2 and jug damage model 😎

my experiences are like marks, but I must add that in my experience being rammed in an il2 = death while you would think the strong il2 would fair far better. Late war aircraft and the mig and i16 seem right but the vvs Stalingrad and kuban fighters seem like the best choice for the kamikazes out there.

 

 

Edited by Hajo_Garlic
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12 minutes ago, Monostripezebra said:

You gotta show the PE2 some love..

 

Was anyone not expecting a wing to break?

 

Technically it's the A20 receiving the love, isn't it?

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1 hour ago, Raven109 said:

 

Was anyone not expecting a wing to break?

 

Technically it's the A20 receiving the love, isn't it?

 

kind of. But it is a mutual love affair..

 

The wing breaks depend on many things, and I can safely say the Pe2s are in that regards not significantly harder then other bombers.

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In SP, I took one down the other day in a 109G-2 on my first pass, igniting one of his engines. Not trying to be argumentative, just adding my own experience to the discussion. They usually take more work from me and can be tough, but I've never experienced an invincible one. IL2s a year or two ago, though...

Edited by GreenSound

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Seeing several videos from Mr. Monostripezebra's channel in Youtube, it is clear to me that the "collision between planes" Damage Model is not well resolved in IL-2 GB.

 

IMHO, there was not a lag or bad connection issue in the Pe-2/109 incident. There was a clear collision between both planes. My plane's  right wing "crosses" neatly through the left wing of the Pe-2. The program detected well such collision.

 

My point is that the part of the program calculating the damage for each plane involved, resulted in assigning 100% damage to my plane (seeing the log of the mission) and 0% to the Pe-2. That is not fair. 

 

Curiously, my kill was not awarded to the Pe-2 in the WOL mission report, I just appear as "crashed". 

 

Edited by FAE_Cazador
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Without seeing a track from the Pe-2s perspective, there is  no way to know whether lag etc was an issue or not. It is entirely possible for one player to see a collision while the other doesn't, due to fundamental limitations imposed by the way real-time multiplayer games have to work.  If there is a real problem with multiplayer collision-detection code, it needs better evidence than a track from one player's perspective and a simple unverifiable assertion that lag wasn't an issue.

 

As for how well IL-2 GB collision modelling works in general, yes, you can sometimes see odd things happening in single player too. I don't think I've seen another air combat simulator that doesn't also have issues though, and I think people may have unrealistic expectations of what is practical to achieve. If you collide with another aircraft, what exactly happens is going to involve an element of luck, regardless of what sort of code you use. Which is a good reason to avoid putting yourself in a situation where a collision is likely.

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6 hours ago, Monostripezebra said:

 

kind of. But it is a mutual love affair..

 

The wing breaks depend on many things, and I can safely say the Pe2s are in that regards not significantly harder then other bombers.

 

Well, there was no apparent reason for that wing to break in the video. There is the A-20 canopy that hits the wing, but other than that nothing else. IMHO, wing shedding is one of the defining characteristics of the sim.

 

The only other reason I see why the wing failed, is the A-20 left prop continuously hitting the Pe-2 left engine.

 

I find it hard to believe that the canopy hitting the wing and/or the prop strike could lead to 2 longitudinal spars completely breaking.

Edited by Raven109

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If a smart 109 driver comes along and fire a couple of burst on my engines and then dis engage. He have effectively wasted half a hour climbing and ensured that I spend at least half a hour to return. Efficient way to keep a bomber out of action for a hour. If he insist on get a kill. I am in the air again within half a minute. 
Since I get very reluctant giving a free kill to those annoying swarms of bees, I will do my best returning. 
And some clever bastards do this. 

Edited by No.322_LuseKofte
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S! 

 

Pe-2 durability combined with the idiotic AI is what makes it so hated. Gunners near impwrvious to damage, switching firing position in a blink of an eye etc. comes to mind.

 

This while every single account I have read says Pe-2 burned like a torch if hitting it on engines and inner wing tanks. Self sealing tanks or inert gas just do not work against multiple 20mm hits. And planes lost to gunners of Pe-2 were just about None. Go figure. The only problem with the plane was it's speed, hard to catch unless surprised. Even for a 109. This for Finnish AF of course. Luftwaffe and others differ maybe. 

 

Finns had a few Pe-2 in use, bought from Germans. Mainly used for recon as it was fast and early on did bamboozle russkies just enough so it got away.

 

Fighter pilots did study the plane to determine best hit points and those were: inner wing tanks. Caught fire easily. Engines, did not fly too well on one engine and caught fire too. Cockpit, gunner disabled, usually pilot too and hitting fuel distribution valves caused fires now and then. 

 

But again..what would they know, right? 

Edited by LLv34_Flanker
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1 hour ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

. Caught fire easily. Engines, did not fly too well on one engine

Well we whom have flown PE 2 since the beginning. Can only say that this part is correct modeled. It fly shit with one engine. Very demanding to land with two. And surprisingly easy to get shot down in. 
I have tested PE 2 , HE 111 and JU 88 in qmb. With same fighter. 
The only difference is ai gunners calibre. 
ai gunners should not be that ready when a plane come into their field of fire. It is like ai already have the aim when you enter their area. 
Make the engine stream liquid and abort. It is disabeled

Edited by No.322_LuseKofte

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