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CB77Don246

Help with Spitfire

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I have purchased the Achtung Spitfire. Please can any one give me any tips as to how I can taxi the plane I have tried for several hours with no luck. I have a no problems with most of the other planes and all WW1 aircraft that are my favorites.

I have a Thrustmaster T160000M FCS with CH PRO PEDALS my settings ticked for IL2 are Pilot assistance, Eng auto control, Radiator assistance, throttle auto assistance, warmed up eng, I know what you may say this is not real but I like to have fun and can not be bothered unticking the boxs after all why are they there for me flight sims are to be enjoyed  and at 75 I do not have the will to learn I am ok with the WW1 aircraft with full realisum but not the WW2 stuff.

So is it possible to taxi with the boxs above ticked at the moment the Spit sways to left or right.

Thanks for any help.

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Spit is sensitive for taxing, go slower and with gentle rudder/throttle/brake inputs!

Also higher prop pitch will produce more airflow over rudder giving it more authority and stability!

Did you check your brakes?

Edited by EAF_Ribbon

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Dance on the rudder constantly, left, right, left, right, left right, so as you are ahead of the aircraft, not the other way around, with the stick pulled fully back to keep the tail down. Standard tail-dragger practice.

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1 minute ago, Elem said:

Dance on the rudder constantly, left, right, left, right, left right, so as you are ahead of the aircraft, not the other way around, with the stick pulled fully back to keep the tail down. Standard tail-dragger practice.

this. I do it after touch down when landing too. My entire family will complain for the noise of the rudder pedals but well.. they have to understand the spitfire is just like that😆

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If I'm not mistaken the spit mk5 has only five radiator position. 

The mk9 is fully automatic.

You could go easily full real, and use 85 %throttle, 85%RPM, and 40% water radiator for take off, fly arround and land.

 

For taxiing I would recomend, SLOW speed, joystick pulled all the way to keep the Tail down, lower RPM, maybe arround 40%,  and constant correction, dont wait for the plane to drift a lot off course, adjust at the slightliest sign, maybe even slightly taping the brake button... 

 

As someone said, left, right, tap brake button, left,tap, right, left, tap.... 

Edited by =FEW=fernando11
Correction

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Nothing meaningful to add that hasn't been covered already by others - but yeah, as graceful as Spit is once it's airborne, as clumsy and unstable on the ground. Narrow, outwards retracting gear doesn't help either.

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Weirdly, much more difficult to manage on the ground than the 109.

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As other's have suggested, you need to constantly work the rudder and break lever to get the best effect while taxiing. With almost no speed it's the break lever + rudders that you need to worry about. Once you're doing about 90-100mph on takeoff you should have full rudder authority and be able to control the aircraft that way. Landing is similarly challenging.

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3 hours ago, CB77Don246 said:

I have purchased the Achtung Spitfire. Please can any one give me any tips as to how I can taxi the plane I have tried for several hours with no luck. I have a no problems with most of the other planes and all WW1 aircraft that are my favorites.

I have a Thrustmaster T160000M FCS with CH PRO PEDALS my settings ticked for IL2 are Pilot assistance, Eng auto control, Radiator assistance, throttle auto assistance, warmed up eng, I know what you may say this is not real but I like to have fun and can not be bothered unticking the boxs after all why are they there for me flight sims are to be enjoyed  and at 75 I do not have the will to learn I am ok with the WW1 aircraft with full realisum but not the WW2 stuff.

So is it possible to taxi with the boxs above ticked at the moment the Spit sways to left or right.

Thanks for any help.

I find that with the CH Pro Pedals, the 'hard centre' detente makes it difficult to make precise, small rudder movements. Planes with twitchy rudders or a tendency to ground-loop (looking at you, Spitfire) are harder to control, since the tendency will be to over-press the rudder in one direction or another. Basically, because you have to overcome the hard stop in the centre, you will always be pushing the rudder pedals slightly too hard to get them to move near the centre of travel. When I use them, I find that the smallest movement of the pedals I can make uses about 10% of movement, and for precise controls you sometimes need less than that.

I would set up a small deadzone in the centre of your rudder in the keybindings section, so that the smallest possible controlled movement you can make with the rudder pedals just starts to move the needle. You can also add a response curve in the controls in case you want to have an 'exponential' response on your pedals, which makes your controls near the centre of travel more precise and the ones near the edges stronger.

I think this video by IFlyCentral explains deadzones and curves well. He used to have a video where he still used CH Pedals, now he uses MFG crosswinds which don't have the same strong centre issue.



Some people don't like this because the response isn't linear and find it harder to control their inputs, but its worth a try if you're struggling with rudder controls. You can always reset to default if you don't like it. 

Another thing to consider is that the Spitfire has differential wheel brakes tied to the rudder, and no toe brakes, so your toe brakes on your pedals won't work. The brake for the Spitfire is a button in the game (and a lever in real life). So, when you press the 'brake', the brakes engage fully. When you push the rudder one way while at the same time holding down the brake button, the brake will be applied more strongly on the side that you pushed the rudder, and the more you push your rudder pedal, the more strength goes to one side. 

So if you brake and push the rudder hard, and your plane has any momentum, you're going to start to turn hard. And that turn is hard to stop in a taildragging airplane. So the solution is to go relatively slow, be gentle on the rudder and brakes, and as said above, 'dance on the rudder' to try and stay ahead of the airplane. Short, sharp stabs of the rudder are often what is needed.
 

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Thank you all for your replys will act on them see what happens I do think the rudder pedals maybe to blame as Redkestral explains. thanks.

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

I find that with the CH Pro Pedals, the 'hard centre' detente makes it difficult to make precise, small rudder movements.

 

Same thing with the Saitek. I don't have too many issue on the ground because I don't try to make precise movement but small, strong corrections, but in flight using rudder for anything precise, like aiming, is not possible.

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35 minutes ago, CB77Don246 said:

Thank you all for your replys will act on them see what happens I do think the rudder pedals maybe to blame as Redkestral explains. thanks.

They are decent pedals to be sure. The trick is to find the sweet spot in the settings. Good luck!

I use about a 8% dead zone on the pedals and about 50% sensitivity curve. Start there and see if you like the response.

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Well I have had no luck, it's not a problem I will not fly the Spit my only grip is any new person buying into IL2  may find the learning curve just a little to steep and move on to something else and we don't want that to happen.

There seems to be a lack of explanation for a lot of the settings (no manuals or have I missed them. Like what is the Simplified controls, Simplified physics, Simplified Physiology.

Well will keep flying.

Edited by CB77Don246

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When taxiing, keep this in mind:

 

"When you start a turn, start to stop it."

 

So, once the turn has started, apply some opposite braking before you have completed the turn.

 

Also:

  • Go easy on the throttle, applying it smoothly.
  • Make any corrections to your direction right away; don't wait for an unwanted turn to go too far before correcting it.
  • At higher taxi speeds, make only small turns.
  • Slow down a lot before making large turns.
Edited by JimTM

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40 minutes ago, CB77Don246 said:

Well I have had no luck, it's not a problem I will not fly the Spit my only grip is any new person buying into IL2  may find the learning curve just a little to steep and move on to something else and we don't want that to happen.

There seems to be a lack of explanation for a lot of the settings (no manuals or have I missed them. Like what is the Simplified controls, Simplified physics, Simplified Physiology.

Well will keep flying.


This is the manual. It is, unfortunately, very out of date since the game has been massively updated since it was published. The difficulty settings explanations are probably still current but lots of other things are not.

As for your questions:

'simplified physiology' basically means your pilot won't experience as many issues with G-forces. so if you pull hard on the stick in simplified physiology you won't black out as early and your pilot won't get 'tired' from repeated high-g maneuvers. Probably not relevant to the problem you're having.

Simplified physics - physical forces like torque, g-forces, p-factor, adverse yaw, etc. are all reduced and simplified.

Simplified controls - there is an automatic assistance system that makes controlling the plane easier.

Personally, I think that the simplified physics and simplified controls may actually be hurting you here and making things harder. Our advice given in this thread is coming from the point of view of people flying without these settings activated. If the physics and controls are simplified, then the methods of counteracting ground loops may not work. If the game is 'assisting' you, then it may be augmenting your rudder inputs or reducing your braking or things like that, so even if you are doing things 'right' the game may not be letting you do so. If the physics are simplified then the way the ground looping works may be different, since the reason a ground loop happens is rooted in the physics of momentum, torque, turning moments, etc.

So, for example, if we are telling you to dance on the rudder, and the game is deciding that your rudder inputs are wrong and 'helping' with them, it may be preventing you from making the right inputs at the right time, or softening them.

I would advise you to start a QMB on the ground with the Spit VB, turn physics and control simplification off, and make an attempt at taxiing around an open field for a while. Don't worry if you ground loop, just take your time and get around. once you can take off and land with a spitfire everything else will be easy.

EDIT: and of course there is nothing wrong with practicing with a lot of other planes for a while and just having fun, and coming back to it later when you feel more ready. The game has a very steep learning curve as a fairly realistic sim, so you have to be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to get used to it.

Edited by RedKestrel
  • Upvote 1

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2 hours ago, CB77Don246 said:

I will not fly the Spit

Don't be downhearted! If the learning curve seems steep, well, it is. And it's a complicated bit of software, which will require lots of tweaking before you find the settings, key mapping, and setup that work best for you. But the rewards are more than worth the persevere imho. 

 

I bet you a collector plane of your choice that (if you keep flying other planes and occasionally practice in the spit) in 6 months you are able to taxi it in comfort, take off with ease, be at least somewhat effective in combat, and land with a graceful pirouette at the end. 

 

If the spit still isn't working for you by June 2020, let me know what plane you'd like. And let's hop on comms and I'll see if I can't make her work for you. 

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Thank you all so much you are all very kind to take the time to reply, I have completed mission 1 and 2 in Achtung Spitfire so I am getting there.

 

With regarding the Simplified controls, Physics, Physiology, I have never ever had them ticked in my view now that is cheating (only joking if you have them ticked).

 

In all my years of combat sims and you name it I have flown it, the Spit in here is one of the hardest to tame. but I am getting there. Thank you all again.

  • Upvote 2

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The trick for me in keeping the Spitfire V under control on the ground was when I realized you have to keep the rpm up high enough to keep airflow over the rudder to maintain directional control. I had been chopping the throttle when I started to do a ground loop and counterintuitively, if I kept the throttle up, I could stop the spin with opposite rudder and a tap on the brake lever/button. On takeoff, I quickly learned how much rudder to hold in while easing in the throttle to get her going straight. Trim is not the answer, you have to get a feel for anticipating the swing and holding against it, and then letting off the pressure as the speed increases down the runway.

 

Like in a real plane, you have to look fairly far ahead to anticipate the corrections. Don’t focus close (as if you could with the that merlin in your face)

 

On landing, keep the stick full back and don’t touch anything until you have rolled to an almost complete stop. Then bump up the throttle just like when you are taxiing for takeoff.

 

It is a twitchy plane but that’s what makes it so responsive. You have to stay ahead of it and handle it like you mean it to go where you point it. It’s not a Cadillac like the bigger fighters. I don’t understand the comments about not being able to aim with it. That may have to do with setting a 2-3% dead zone as mentioned above. I have found it very easy to aim, just doesn’t have much ammo so you have to be frugal. I always fired the MGs and when I started getting hits, fired a few cannon rounds for effect. Works like a charm if you are under 200 meters range. 3 to 5 fighter kills in a sortie was normal. I probably flew at least 200 missions in it while working on “Greek Fire” 

 

 

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On 12/20/2019 at 9:54 AM, CB77Don246 said:

I have purchased the Achtung Spitfire. Please can any one give me any tips as to how I can taxi the plane I have tried for several hours with no luck. I have a no problems with most of the other planes and all WW1 aircraft that are my favorites.

I have a Thrustmaster T160000M FCS with CH PRO PEDALS my settings ticked for IL2 are Pilot assistance, Eng auto control, Radiator assistance, throttle auto assistance, warmed up eng, I know what you may say this is not real but I like to have fun and can not be bothered unticking the boxs after all why are they there for me flight sims are to be enjoyed  and at 75 I do not have the will to learn I am ok with the WW1 aircraft with full realisum but not the WW2 stuff.

So is it possible to taxi with the boxs above ticked at the moment the Spit sways to left or right.

Thanks for any help.

 

I've mostly been flying the 109 with differential brakes and can happily take off and land no problem. But, I too purchased the Achtung Spitfire campaign and struggled to handle the plane on the ground. Drifted to the left no matter how much I applied hard right rudder with brakes. 

 

The one thing that helped as others have mentioned is to put the prop. pitch to high so the lever in the cockpit is forwards. With the increased airflow over the rudder I easily managed to control the left swing and took to the air with no problems. You still need small and regular rudder inputs with the odd bit of brake but it's pretty straightforward once you have the rudder working as it should. I always fly with full realism minus the outside views and map. 

 

Didn't stop me redding out on the second mission and crashing into a lake though :)

Edited by AtomicP
Realism settings

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Ive gone back to letting the game manage the engine and rads too, as I found focusing on managing too many controls was getting in the way of me learning how the aircraft should actually handle in combat and making me too conservative.

Definitely turn off the auto throttle management though! It will mess with your flying since it’s very conservative and throttle you back rather than leaving it up to you when you want to rest your engine. Instead learn how long you can run on combat power, wep, etc. the game will warn you anyway when you’ve pushed too far.

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I have RPM at minimum and throttle low when taxiing the Spit.

Edited by Jabo_68*
felt like it

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On 12/20/2019 at 11:36 AM, CB77Don246 said:

Thank you all so much you are all very kind to take the time to reply, I have completed mission 1 and 2 in Achtung Spitfire so I am getting there.

 

With regarding the Simplified controls, Physics, Physiology, I have never ever had them ticked in my view now that is cheating (only joking if you have them ticked).

 

In all my years of combat sims and you name it I have flown it, the Spit in here is one of the hardest to tame. but I am getting there. Thank you all again.

I've been into flight sims since the Apple II. Of course many users likely have high end control setups and are thus in a position to enjoy detailed physics complexity. One issue I haven't noticed in this thread thus far is any reference to wind effects. If wind and/or turbulence effects have been included in a mission they might affect ground handling. If you intend to use full real settings, wind effects need to be taken into account. If there is a windsock at the airfield I always check for wind direction for takeoff and landing. If wind direction is not taken into account the Spitfire is extremely prone to ground loops. No amount of rudder pedal dancing will help you if you are unaware of this issue. You must be prepared to counter crosswind with appropriate aileron input. Forewarned is forearmed.

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I guess I am just used to it now after having many many hours in the Spit, it just does not seem that bad to me at ground handling.

I have thoroughly enjoyed doing cold starts and taxi to runway with it in PWCG.

Just have to stay ahead of it with some judicial braking.

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On 12/20/2019 at 2:36 PM, CB77Don246 said:

Thank you all so much you are all very kind to take the time to reply, I have completed mission 1 and 2 in Achtung Spitfire so I am getting there.

 

With regarding the Simplified controls, Physics, Physiology, I have never ever had them ticked in my view now that is cheating (only joking if you have them ticked).

 

In all my years of combat sims and you name it I have flown it, the Spit in here is one of the hardest to tame. but I am getting there. Thank you all again.

 

Keep at it! With a little technique it becomes manageable although I still ground loop it from time to time.

 

Simulations are tough because most of us want realism and if you want realism too (by checking or unchecking realism/difficulty features) then you do have to face the "consequences" of that. The Spitfire was a bit of a handful on the ground.

 

One of my favourite quotes on the subject is in this trailer for a documentary that came out in 2018, with one of the pilots saying "She was a lady in the air but a bitch on the ground." Feels like an accurate statement in IL-2 to be sure!

 

 

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I have found that to prevent ground looping on the roll out after landing, I throttle up to around 1300 to 1400 RPM once below 50MPH and leave it there. Brakes and rudder to keep her straight untill taxi speed. Maintain these RPM with brake/rudder and I can taxi with ease.

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