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Game version 4.003 discussion: Improvements and Fixes.

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6 hours ago, unreasonable said:

You can see the problem: most of the AI complaints are that they are too easy to shoot down, and many of the others are about behaviours that make the AI harder to shoot down!

Yes you are right. For me it doesn't matter if it gets harder or easier, as long as it gets more realistic. But there were/are/will be enough threads in which players argue it is too hard or too easy.

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7 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Yes you are right. For me it doesn't matter if it gets harder or easier, as long as it gets more realistic.

 

This was my whole long-winded point earlier. Improving AI is always a good thing if it makes it more realistic. Non-player characters like AI pilots, gunners, AA, or others in this game's case should have believable AI, and they do for the most part but can use some improvements.

 

7 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

But there were/are/will be enough threads in which players argue it is too hard or too easy.

 

Hopefully AI can be dumbed down when people set lower difficulties. AI can be programmed to make stupid decisions or to avoid certain good decisions rather, if difficulty was set lower. I kind of assume that's how it already works, but just assuming.. They want it to be challenging without being Bloodborne.

Edited by blah

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On 12/28/2019 at 10:19 AM, BlitzPig_EL said:

Expecting our small dev team, that is constricted by a shoe string budget, to conquer this problem in a fortnight or so, is dreaming on the part of the player base, much less to expect it to run on any of our home PCs.

 

I wanted to clarify that I get where you're coming from here. I just don't think anyone is expecting that this all be done quickly. It's really just people making suggestions in how they hope the AI can be improved to make things more realistic, for better or worse. Of course AI for NPCs in a flight sim is probably harder than AI in most other games, but the dev team does make AI changes that make things realistic. For example, the AI pilots use real line of sight from what I understand (using ray casts maybe?). If I'm flying behind a mountain or cloud then the AI pilot cannot "see me". I know that's not quite related to AI about air combat, but the point is they can make AI more realistic in certain ways. This fix about the turn lock was a huge one to make dog fights more realistic, and I see the enemy AI doing a lot more maneuvering. It's great, but there can always be more.

 

Anyway, just wanted to clarify that I get what you're saying -- that AI improvements in flight sims are hard and that the team's small -- but suggestions are always a good thing IMO. Many end up getting implemented in the game, and even if a suggestion sucks, it still allows people to feel like a part of the community.

 

AI has been a major area that many will say has needed improvement in this sim for awhile now. We definitely see fixes and this dev team accomplishes a huge amount of work when i look at their dev diaries (honestly one of my favorite dev teams to watch), but AI just needs some love and has for awhile now. So I'm not surprised that everyone is bringing out their suggestions.

-----------

As an aside, my only point was that there are still high-energy fighters who seem to waste their energy and turn fight against better turners. It just doesn't make sense to do that. And although AI in flight sims is likely very difficult in general like you said, it doesn't seem like it would be difficult for an AI fighter to learn what I'm flying once I'm within some boundary where a real pilot could identify my plane. The AI could then use that knowledge in its decisions. It doesn't seem far-fetched for the AI to make different decisions based on what it's flying in and against. If I'm in a plane closing in on the AIs six and the AI knows its flying something with more energy, it could use that knowledge to decide to dive away and gain distance rather than just turn or split S and try to engage. Trust me, I'm trying to be humble here and I know I'm probably over-simplifying things or there's more to consider behind-the-scenes (performance, etc). I've been on the other side of a user over-simplifying my software, but from my side, this seems approachable to some extent.. Just an assumption obviously. I don't know the performance impact of all AI planes using data about its plane and enemy planes in their decision making. I also don't know how simple or complex the AI decisions are, or how complex they can be in an already resource intensive sim. But if it's possible for the AI to be "context aware" about its plane and enemy planes in any way, it would make fights more realistic than they already are.

Edited by blah
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I really appreciate all the hard work that is now going into the AI.  It is transforming the game.

I hope the AI can be more difficult to throw off your tail eventually too.  At the moment a prompt turn is all that is needed as soon as you see some tracer, and the AI will wobble off and go into search mode well before it has followed you through 180 degrees.

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19 hours ago, unreasonable said:

You can see the problem: most of the AI complaints are that they are too easy to shoot down, and many of the others are about behaviours that make the AI harder to shoot down!   

I totally agree with you that for many people around this forum, this seems to be the essence of the AI related "issue".

 

Personally I don't think this is the root problem when it comes to AI behavior. I believe that dogfighting should be a hard thing to do under most, if not any, circumstances. And in this respect the recent AI related improvements are pretty decent imho. It's now much more difficult( e.g. more fun) to engage the AI. But to me, as has pointed out by some other members as well, the root problem to me is that the AI always seems to know where you are and break away from you if you close in to a certain distance. This can be very frustrating. At least this is my own experience when flying career based missions. It would be fantastic if this could be fixed some day, though I have no idea of how feasible, e.g. technically possible this could be. 

 

Though not directly related to the AI, for career based missions I also wish we could have some more diversitiy in enely flights to be encountered during a mission. There should be more enemy planes flying around either alone or only in pairs. This should be especially so for free hunting missions.

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one thing AI related I wouldn't mind see improved is the AI logic during ground attack missions. As it stands, you'll have a mission to attack a railway junction and your AI teammates will only attack the AA units and call it good enough. I wouldn't mind them focusing a bit more on the objective. Right now, only I am doing the actual mission of bombing the train xD

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7 hours ago, Sybreed said:

one thing AI related I wouldn't mind see improved is the AI logic during ground attack missions. As it stands, you'll have a mission to attack a railway junction and your AI teammates will only attack the AA units and call it good enough. I wouldn't mind them focusing a bit more on the objective. Right now, only I am doing the actual mission of bombing the train xD

This has changed over the time. There was a time, after we mentioned exactly this, that AI did indeed attack the real ground targets like tanks, trucks, artillery and AT guns. But it unfortunately changed again some time ago, for what reason ever

EDIT: On a second thought, I have to say, I was flying a few escort missions in the game's career lately, and the ground attack aircrafts did destroy the artillery guns, too.

A second thing, that should be improved for ground attacks is, the circling over the target. You fly there, and instead of trying to surprise the enemy with your attack, you fly over your target (who cares about AAA), turn round and then attack, and after the target is done, it happens quite often, that you fly circles over it, waiting for enemy fighters to arrive.

Edited by Yogiflight
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On 12/22/2019 at 2:34 PM, beneG said:

Frost*

Yogiflight

Oyster_KAI

 

We will fix those issues ASAP. Please be patient and thanks for supporting our game.

 

Thanks, your efforts are much appreciated! 🙂

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On 12/18/2019 at 4:43 PM, Sneaksie said:

7. Halberstadt CL.II gunner animation corrected;

 

The bug is still present and there is also an Halberstadt CL.II explosion bug as can be seen both in this video footage.

 

 

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I just found another serious career bug, in the JU 52 Career for bodenplatte: on the first day of the battle of the bulge the in air spawn spawns you 50 ft above the ground in the middle of the forest/ trees and you  immediately crash

 

Snapchat-1091504961.jpg

 

 

Snapchat-1579308130.jpg

Snapchat-851340060.jpg

Snapchat-922560855.jpg

Edited by Stummyhurt
added photos

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You can make AI seem smarter without actually making them more skilled by letting the player know what they're thinking. F.E.A.R is a shooter that is known for its AI, but the behaviours of the enemies in it aren't actually that complex. They just shout out loud "HE'S BEHIND THE CHAIR" or "I'M GOING AROUND". It's just a trick, though. Their decision making is pretty basic, but by making it more clear that they're actually making decisions, the player is more inclined to regard them as a thinking entity

 

Obviously you can't have the player tune in to German radio and hear "awww scheisse ich bin getting owned" but you can give them some basic behaviours to let them communicate their feelings. If they're on the defensive for X seconds or have taken damage they could fire a red flare, and nearby allies could have their targets shifted to the attacker. Their "recently lost enemy" behaviour could be a kind of zig-zag weaving instead of defaulting to a circle. It doesn't have to actually make them better at combat, they just have to look like the gears are turning

 

More radio lines for allied flights would also help but you'd have to summon all the voice actors back etc

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18 hours ago, Stummyhurt said:

I just found another serious career bug, in the JU 52 Career for bodenplatte: on the first day of the battle of the bulge the in air spawn spawns you 50 ft above the ground in the middle of the forest/ trees and you  immediately crash

 

You might want to post this in the Technical Issues and Bug Reports if it hasn't been posted there already.

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On 12/31/2019 at 7:42 AM, =621=Samikatz said:

You can make AI seem smarter without actually making them more skilled by letting the player know what they're thinking. F.E.A.R is a shooter that is known for its AI, but the behaviours of the enemies in it aren't actually that complex. They just shout out loud "HE'S BEHIND THE CHAIR" or "I'M GOING AROUND". It's just a trick, though. Their decision making is pretty basic, but by making it more clear that they're actually making decisions, the player is more inclined to regard them as a thinking entity

 

Obviously you can't have the player tune in to German radio and hear "awww scheisse ich bin getting owned" but you can give them some basic behaviours to let them communicate their feelings. If they're on the defensive for X seconds or have taken damage they could fire a red flare, and nearby allies could have their targets shifted to the attacker. Their "recently lost enemy" behaviour could be a kind of zig-zag weaving instead of defaulting to a circle. It doesn't have to actually make them better at combat, they just have to look like the gears are turning

 

More radio lines for allied flights would also help but you'd have to summon all the voice actors back etc

 

Agree so much... especially about the radio comms. There's more than just combat AI that could be done to make things more realistic. Honestly, the radio comms could be vastly improved and it would make things a lot more realistic. The friendlies telling me "Attacking fighter to the East" doesn't help me very much especially if I don't know where they are. Sometimes I'm like, "where the hell is my flight?!" lol. I wish I could request my flight's coordinates or ask them the enemy's coordinates, for example. That would make me feel as-if they're "real" too. And I wish they gave more information when they're attacking. I'd even settle for just the text on the screen until voice actors filled things in. I know I know, small team and what not, but radio comms in SP could use sooo much improvement and would improve things a lot.

 

Your flare idea could be good too. I'm sure there are other ideas that don't involve combat related AI too... which I assume is the difficult part. Good point about "tricks" or other things besides combat AI though.

 

If this team had millions to drop and hundreds of devs, I wish they could use machine learning to learn from decisions that humans make in the sim. I know this is far-fetched but let a man dream, damnit!

 

Does someone know if people's ideas in this thread should go to Suggestions btw? [Edit] - I know that suggestions can go there but was just wondering if things in this thread haven't already been suggested. I'm sure everyone who plays this game knows the SP radio comms can be improved lol. I suppose all the other suggestions have already been suggested in some way or another, or they're just too generic for a suggestion. "Improve combat AI" won't really go that far lol.:)

Edited by spamRoast
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I hope they're planning to remove the tree soon.

 

It's very nice and all that, but a bit of a fire hazard IMO.

 

 

tree hazard.jpg

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29 minutes ago, Vortice said:

I hope they're planning to remove the tree soon.

 

It's very nice and all that, but a bit of a fire hazard IMO.

 

 

tree hazard.jpg

 

Hehe, well I guess it'll stay past Ortodox Christmas which is January 7th.  Where I'm from we throw the tree out at the 13th day of Christmas. No idea why, but then again we put a damn tree indoors...🤣

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On 12/30/2019 at 5:13 AM, Yogiflight said:

This has changed over the time. There was a time, after we mentioned exactly this, that AI did indeed attack the real ground targets like tanks, trucks, artillery and AT guns. But it unfortunately changed again some time ago, for what reason ever

EDIT: On a second thought, I have to say, I was flying a few escort missions in the game's career lately, and the ground attack aircrafts did destroy the artillery guns, too.

A second thing, that should be improved for ground attacks is, the circling over the target. You fly there, and instead of trying to surprise the enemy with your attack, you fly over your target (who cares about AAA), turn round and then attack, and after the target is done, it happens quite often, that you fly circles over it, waiting for enemy fighters to arrive.

 

Indeed, I remember a time when my teammates would attack the objective.

 

As it stands, I'll have 4-7 targets destroyed and all my AI teammates will have a single AA battery dead and we'll get the Return to your base prompt.

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14 hours ago, Vortice said:

I hope they're planning to remove the tree soon.

 

It's very nice and all that, but a bit of a fire hazard IMO.

 

 

tree hazard.jpg

It makes the hangar smell nice, but my crew chief is constantly bitching about having to sweep up the needles.

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33 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

It makes the hangar smell nice, but my crew chief is constantly bitching about having to sweep up the needles.

Just open the rear hangar door and start that Tempest's engine for a second.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Sybreed said:

 

Indeed, I remember a time when my teammates would attack the objective.

 

As it stands, I'll have 4-7 targets destroyed and all my AI teammates will have a single AA battery dead and we'll get the Return to your base prompt.

Same for me

Well not really: "I miss 4-7 targets and all my AI teammates will have a single AA battery dead and we'll get the Return to your base prompt  " would be more accurate

Edited by jeanba

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On 1/3/2020 at 3:26 PM, unlikely_spider said:

Just open the rear hangar door and start that Tempest's engine for a second.

 

 

😀

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I flew with a Y1-b 127 over Kuban yesterday, should an reconnaissance aircraft intercept at a height of over 6000 meters (JU88): two problems
1) Pilot without an oxygen mask
2) The sun is not correct in the mirror

2020_1_7__1_50_20.png

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Not really fixes but improvements:

 

An Arras summer map with no soggy ground.

The soggy ground prevents mission builders from adding airfields on level ground. It also prevents missions that require planes to land in open country behind enemy lines. An Arras summer map with no soggy ground gives mission designers the option to use it or not.

wheelscamel.jpg

 

Airfields missing from the Arras map:

Bailleul  0105.3
Lomme Lille 0207.1
La Gorgue 0305.8
Hesdigneul 0404.5
Faucaucourt en Santerre  1206.4

Warfusee       1204.9

 

Airfield under attack feature: This may work for WW II and arcade style missions but does not work for WW I  Expert missions.  The graphic destroys the fog of war and because the airfields are closer it does not give useful information.  The diameter or range of this feature needs to be added to the airfield properties box so it can be used, not used or adjusted by the mission creator.

attack feature.jpg

 

Balloons: Adjust properties so that Balloons can flare.

 

Influence area:   Should show on in game UI map as a colored area as in RoF. Would be nice to see nationality symbol as well.

 

Color Coalition objects in ME for Entente and Central  just like Allied and Axis objects are.  Blue for Entente and Red for Central.

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