Jump to content
666GIAP_Necathor

New spotting and view of planes

Recommended Posts

After the last 2 patch´s(big one and the hotfix) the spotting and view of planes in the air or against the ground is a shame, almost impossible to do it with. I buy a 144Mhz monitor and a 2070 video card to play with great video parameters, but now the only way to see something in the air is if you decrease all your parameter, that give you the sight from 20-80km spot,  but weak at short distances.

Now you loose a plane that is only at 200 m away but you can see planes like big bright dots at 60km away.

Normally everybody ask for probs, well here are your probe.

I ask a many of my friends pilots of commercial planes(Airbus 320 most of them) and they said, at 25Km or more few times you can see a big plane and looks like a dot of 1mm or at night whit lights or contrailing, at 18km with great effort, less than 12Km you can see normally a commercial airplane.

I really don´t understand what is your objective now, the entire sims lost performance and quality. You can´t even hold a descend dogfight  

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

After the last 2 patch´s(big one and the hotfix) the spotting and view of planes in the air or against the ground is a shame, almost impossible to do it with. I buy a 144Mhz monitor and a 2070 video card to play with great video parameters, but now the only way to see something in the air is if you decrease all your parameter, that give you the sight from 20-80km spot,  but weak at short distances.

Now you loose a plane that is only at 200 m away but you can see planes like big bright dots at 60km away.

Normally everybody ask for probs, well here are your probe.

I ask a many of my friends pilots of commercial planes(Airbus 320 most of them) and they said, at 25Km or more few times you can see a big plane and looks like a dot of 1mm or at night whit lights or contrailing, at 18km with great effort, less than 12Km you can see normally a commercial airplane.

I really don´t understand what is your objective now, the entire sims lost performance and quality. You can´t even hold a descend dogfight  

Pura Vida!

To me currently this is something that needs urgent fix.

It is ruining gameplay.

You spot a plane dive into him, then disappears, when you are getting closer, in MP you can hear and read  how unhappy everyone is, this cannot be ignored.

Some people are not playing anymore because of this.

 

I assume its not an easy fix , or it would have been fixed, and developers are working on it.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree, why so many visual candies when in order to achive some "competent" spotting you have to lower the settings to minimum levels?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a big thread over in the Russian forum by Petrovich - since locked since he apparently got tired of 'tilting at windmills' in terms of moderation.

It does look like things are going to get looked at in the new year, as he says (via Google Translate, my apologies if it is garbled):
 

"The topic has rolled into a flood ... Sorry. But it is quite predictable, apparently in a different way we do not know how.

 

There will be no quick fixes, I warned at the very beginning that this “investigation” is for a long time. Evidence has already been collected a lot. I perfectly understand your desire for a miracle for the New Year, but I'm not Santa Claus either. There is a lot to deal with in detail. And after a few days I’m going on vacation (in which I’ll have almost no time to sit at the computer), and before that I still need to do a lot of things to do about my current planned tasks. And after vacation - again into battle for (as usual) an unpredictable period.

 

So, as Jason said, you have to be patient. I will deal with visibility, but I won’t promise results, let alone quick ones. We'll see. From the good news - it seems that in the foreseeable future we will expect improvements in the visibility of contacts against the background of clouds. At least we ourselves hope so."


And later, this:

"This topic was just created to collect "reports". I got the necessary information to understand where to dig and what to explore, thanks again to everyone for the constructive! I'll be back from vacation, I will begin to slowly test hypotheses."


https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12833-видимость-контактов-проблемы-идеи-предложения/page/4/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

too bad they cant roll it back to just before expert visibility...sure...spotting might be "too easy" but at least everybody could see in that patch 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

too bad they cant roll it back to just before expert visibility...sure...spotting might be "too easy" but at least everybody could see in that patch 

You can just enable Alternate Visibility if that’s what you want. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You can just enable Alternate Visibility if that’s what you want. 

we've been over this

 

im talking about online 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could not tell after some trials of both "normal" and "alternate" visibility modes whether or not there is any advantage to either that makes middle-distance spotting any less unreasonably difficult. Seems it affects mainly contacts that are further away from the trouble zone, such as from 8km and further.  

 

Closer in than that, where lie our present woes, this setting doesn't appear to have any distinctively noticeable effect.

 

Jason has also specifically mentioned that no changes have been made to spotting closer than the "10km bubble" with the introduction of the new system.

 

Could it be that we're just now seeing a difficulty that was always there, yet now has been highlighted by the fact that an "invisible" contact had been visible before it came near enough to fall back on "how it was before".

This would imply that near-distance spotting has ALWAYS been just this bad. Except that before, one would not be at all aware of this unseen contact at all before it popped right up.  Thus this apparently "new" problem was really present all along, Only it was hidden behind a larger issue which made its detection too illusive to provide any meaningful practical insight, -- This is just a theory...

 

 

What does have a large effect however, is the in-game Anti-Aliasing setting.  With this at anything other than 4x, I have confirmed (by enlarging screenshots) that planes at 1~6km can have over 50% of their surface lost "in between" pixels.

 

With 4X AA settings, this happens quite less severely. And that makes dogfighting somewhat manageable, if one deliberately target-fixates on a single enemy target and works the zoom carefully to avoid the contact becoming too small on the screen.  Without head-tracking, this is only possible against easy AIs in single player. I haven't tried it in VR for lack of needed hardware.

 

 

 

I've pointed out before that a software/rendering solution to this is perhaps not a practical approach. It could be more effective (and far easier) to work around the problem by having aircraft LOD meshes made progressively more bloated (3dsMax Push Modifier) as they become less detailed.

 

That would not alter the actual proportions of the aircraft themselves much, but it would ensure that far-out LODs have enough cross-section area to avoid having their surface pixels ignored. This should be particularly effective in cases of wings viewed edge-on.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

I just read that it seems we'll have Deferred Rendering coming up sometime soon.  Being aware of what this is and what it can do for us, I would not be surprised if it proved to have a very large effect on this issue, since it basically changes all the rules for how graphics get from sim to screen.

 

Thus, my advice right now would be to wait and see how this turns out.  It could make the problem go away. Or it could make it so much worse that its nature and cause become self-evident. Or not. Who can tell?   Wait and see.

Edited by 19//Moach
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 19//Moach said:

Jason has also specifically mentioned that no changes have been made to spotting closer than the "10km bubble" with the introduction of the new system.

 

That's not completely true, since now we have a layer of sun reflection (there is a contrast bug report out there, look for it). If the plane is facing the sun and above you, especially after dawn or dusk, they disappear at very close distances. Since the sun is always there, every time you have the sun on your back you might not see things in front or above you.

 

There was a fix on the contrast bug (can't say for sure what has changed), but the new visibility was partially questioned much in function of the contrast bug, and the fix was recent, in the last patch I think. So in a way, it is not the same as it was before.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, gimpy117 said:

we've been over this

 

im talking about online 

If enough other players like that system they can set up a server running it. That’s the only solution. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/28/2020 at 11:44 PM, gimpy117 said:

too bad they cant roll it back to just before expert visibility...sure...spotting might be "too easy" but at least everybody could see in that patch 

Spotting wasn't easy back then Hundreds of threads over spotting . but its better than what we have today . There is a bug with the zoom and colour .backgrounds . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put another situation that now I saw it every day, I really need and explanation of how I can see a perfect shadow in the ground of a plane that have 10 meters win spawn that is flying at 500m over the ground but is impossible to find the plane, worst I am flying at 1000 m from the ground.

Something is really broke now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it amusing that I can spot the shadow of the airplane pretty much very easily and right away..

 

but spotting the actual aircraft after that becomes the game of "where the heck can he be?" where I need to figure out the sun position and follows the invisible line connecting the shadow to the sun and hopefully finally seeing something in the middle.. 😄

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Count_de_Money said:

I find it amusing that I can spot the shadow of the airplane pretty much very easily and right away..

 

but spotting the actual aircraft after that becomes the game of "where the heck can he be?" where I need to figure out the sun position and follows the invisible line connecting the shadow to the sun and hopefully finally seeing something in the middle.. 😄

Well the shadow can sometimes produce a lot more contrast than the aircraft itself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just can't figure out why they don't  just copy the sistem used in Clod which is the best spotting sistem any sim ever had.

 

Just don't play around with Realism Topics or real life or real bla bla..

 

Players wanna play, I understand the realism but if applying it ruin the experience well no thanks, maybe merge the realism with playable things.
We have just a couple of hours before going to bed and not 12 hours a day, we can't spend like 1 hour running around seeing nothing XD

I'll fly He111 since they fix the spotting, very nice simulator indeed, just need a couple of fix ;)

 

I fly since il246, flown like for 15 years online. Never had this problems

Edited by VII.Racetrack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, VII.Racetrack said:

I just can't figure out why they don't  just copy the sistem used in Clod which is the best spotting sistem any sim ever had.

 

Just don't play around with Realism Topics or real life or real bla bla..

 

Players wanna play, I understand the realism but if applying it ruin the experience well no thanks, maybe merge the realism with playable things.
We have just a couple of hours before going to bed and not 12 hours a day, we can't spend like 1 hour running around seeing nothing XD

I'll fly He111 since they fix the spotting, very nice simulator indeed, just need a couple of fix ;)

 

I fly since il246, flown like for 15 years online. Never had this problems

 

Because CLOD and IL2 have completely different game engines. It's like swapping a Chevrolet V8 big block engine into a Fiat C500 - you can't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, -=-THERION said:

 

Because CLOD and IL2 have completely different game engines. It's like swapping a Chevrolet V8 big block engine into a Fiat C500 - you can't.


I understand this, but the solution can't be this unplayable spottings system:/

 

Hope they will tix this soon 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, VII.Racetrack said:

Players wanna play, I understand the realism but if applying it ruin the experience well no thanks

 

This is not true either (the 'realism' thing). I've been going for walks in Rio de Janeiro and the city has lots of small choppers like Robinsons 44 doing tours. Paragliders as well. I can spot the choppers at 6km (can't check further, unless I have a boat), something impossible here with 0% zoom. *There were no paragliders on this day, since it depends on wind direction. So we are having serious problems to spot planes inside a radius of 3km against the sky, which is something very easy to do from my observations in real life. Inside a radius of 2/3km, you need to be blind to miss a paraglider or a chopper against the sky, and I have been doing it at sunset as well, spotting contacts on the opposite side of the Sun.

 

So if I would bet on it, I would say that our spatial perception should have at least a 3/4km radius with 0% zoom, perhaps even more, something that we barely have at 1.5km, when I can see choppers and paragliders so big that they seem to be 'right there', with shapes and colors visibly apparent.

 

Then what we have in my opinion is not the real life expert realism that is so touted. The system is wrong, extremely unrealistic.

 

There was a chopper in this image, going around the back of the mountain of the Christ the Redeemer about 6km away. I could see it. Saw more than three of them doing tours during the few minutes I was sat there. On these walks on this particular location I tested the distances of 3km, 5km and 6km, and there is no instance when I could imagine that a chopper was there and I wasn't seeing them. Beyond 5.5km I can say it is more challenging depending on the angle, but it only takes a couple seconds to spot them if you look on your six for example and look back. At 3km it is plain easy to spot choppers and paragliders.

 

zvp8jBJ.jpg

 

Yesterday I was on a sortie and I started a merge with two Albatroses. Little did I know that there was an incoming D7F from below the 2km radius, and just a speck even at 1km. I entered the dogfight thinking it was two Albatroses to be surprised when a third plane came out of nowhere. It happens all the time. When you engage someone, you never know if it is just one player, two, three, four, five... It is always a tossup. To miss a D7F at routhly 1km I would be so blind that even in 1918 they would not allow me to conduct a horse chariot.

Edited by SeaW0lf
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/6/2020 at 11:54 AM, SeaW0lf said:

I've been going for walks in Rio de Janeiro and the city has lots of small choppers like Robinsons 44 doing tours.

 

It’s funny that you’re telling us this as if nobody else here or the Devs has ever seen an airplane in the sky... 😶

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...