Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone, 

 

I'm not sure if anyone discussed this before, so I think it's worth a try.  I used to fly using trackir 5 for few years until got a chance to buy myself a Samsung Odyssey + VR headset.  Really enjoying my time playing favorite sim but still cant really enjoy it totally. Thought that changing 1080ti for 2080ti would make a big difference but it haven't done much.  Using 8700k (4900), 32 GB (3600) and 2080 ti the game still looks so much uglier than when you watching some videos on YouTube.  

 

It's been a while and I understand all the politics around the game but I would pay full game price for VR optimization package. This is why I want to see what the community thinks about this. I believe that every vr user would dream about clearly seeing a plane next to him and enjoy the beauty of it.

 

I also understand that there are some limitations about vr as well but I believe there is still a chance that something could be done.

 

I'm not a forum guy, maybe there is a discussion like this somewhere, if not, maybe it would be great to make a poll of it and see how many people would prefer to pay for an optimization like this rather than another set of planes. 

 

I hope everyone can understand that this discussion is not something that suppose to offend anyone but to give an idea for developers, that there are people who are willing to pay for this, to give them extra support in case like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not going to happen. Developing a separate game engine for the small subset of players that use VR would be prohibitively expensive. You'd end up with the costs of developing two games in parallel. Locking full performance behind a paywall would seem like extortion if the products were sold side by side.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need for separate version of Il2 for optimised VR.  Il2 Great Battles series is already well optimised for VR and the Devs have done a great job of it.

 

Comparing though, what you see in your headset to 4K YouTube videos - well, at this point in time VR will not be able to look like that.  A few factors come into play here

 

Headset Native Panel Resolution - of which non yet do native 4K per eye

Computer Hardware - you need more grunt for VR than 2D monitors

Software settings - not sure but I would assume you are using SteamVR with the Samsung

 

Next year you will be able to purchase a 4K per eye native res VR headset.  Even then, due to the nature of VR (VR Lens Distortion Profiles, Screen utilisation, lense being right up on the screen and your eye) - it will not look quite as good as a 4K monitor at half a meters distance but it will be close.

 

The developers will continue to optimise for VR down the track and in a year or so we might see an engine update to DirectX12 or Vulcan which will help some more.  Hopefully at the same time there will be better support for Variable Shader Render Tech that will again help push pixels where needed i.e. the VR headset sweet spot.  At the moment the tech is developing quite rapidly but again, Il2 is well supported.  HAve a look at the VR thread for ideas to help you with your current setup.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, blitze said:

 

I agree with all that you guys saying but I don't need a 4k resolution,  simple thing like understanding what kind of plane is that. People keep friendly firing because of that and not everyone is having the same rig as mine, so I feel sorry for what they are seeing in there. I'm using lefuneste's mode, and it does help a little but still, FullHd quality would be more than enough. 

 

I was suggesting not to pay for a mod or separate game but just as a donation, so they can hire another person or whatever, specially for improving this part of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Improve in what sense? Resolution?

 

If that is the case, the O+ might be the problem. I am more than happy with my Reverb which to me looks as good as my 1440p screen. I owned the O+ before and yes, the picture looked blurry (in comparison to Reverb).

 

At which resolution are you running the O+?

 

Milan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't remember exactly  but know for sure that it is more than full hd. But I still struggle to identify the plane sometimes.  I got 2k monitor and can tell you that there is a huge difference between vr and monitor. The other thing is fps. You still won't be able to turn on max settings and get 90 fps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Simple_Bless said:

I don't remember exactly  but know for sure that it is more than full hd. But I still struggle to identify the plane sometimes.  I got 2k monitor and can tell you that there is a huge difference between vr and monitor. The other thing is fps. You still won't be able to turn on max settings and get 90 fps.

 

You just have to get used to it. 

 

There's a good YouTube video about plane identification out there, just can't remember who made it right now. 

Edited by Soilworker
Bumped the post button.
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure about others but the New SteamVR Beta is interesting.  Using Auto Render Resolution and my test flight in Il2 seemed very nice.

 

PiTool Render 1.25, Normal FOV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I'm just saying that it would be great to fly favorite sim in better optimized VR. I'm pretty happy to pay extra money to support devs, so they can find solutions much faster.

 

If you are happy with what you have now compared to the original, that's fine. I just wish that there is an option where they could improve all of this faster. And we can make this happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't seem to understand what people are telling you.

 

Someone else hit the nail on the head... you cannot compare what you are seeing in your headset to what you are seeing on someone's YouTube video. The technology of current VR headsets just isn't at the point right now where it can display high-resolution images of the same quality as a monitor. It doesn't matter if you're using a GTX 1060 like mine or a 2080 like yours, it doesn't change the optical hardware between the game and your eyes. There is also nothing an "extra guy" or ten extra guys on the dev team can do about it since software cannot overcome hardware limitations. That's just the way it is at this moment in time.

 

BoX remains one of the best looking games in VR at the moment, in my opinion. Once the VR hardware catches up and the PCs to run it are actually affordable to the majority, we'll see improvement. Until then, it's about as good as it gets.

Edited by Goffik
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Simple_Bless said:

Guys, I'm just saying that it would be great to fly favorite sim in better optimized VR. I'm pretty happy to pay extra money to support devs, so they can find solutions much faster.

 

If you are happy with what you have now compared to the original, that's fine. I just wish that there is an option where they could improve all of this faster. And we can make this happen. 

 

Did you read the answers of others here????

There are so many competent and true answers alreday posted. I am a "VR ONLY Guy"...….no VR support of a sim, I don´t buy it. I play on PC exclusively in VR and I can tell you honestly, IL-2 Great Battles is the BEST sim for VR enthusiasts.The major thing which needs to be improved is PC Hardware and VR HMD´s.

Your Samsung Odyssey plus is really not the best HMD on the market ( I owned the Vive Pro, Rift and Odyssey plus ), now I use the HP Reverb, which is for me the best HMD Right NOW ( next year maybe not anymore ).

I am happy that I sold the O+. because it is blurry and not so well, that is because of the anti screen door effect filter, so don´t blame the Devs of IL-2.

My Reverb can be really clear with a wonderful image, BUT I can not run it maxed out in terms of highest Super Sampling Settings, because my PC Hardware does not provide that.

I have to limit the SS Setting in SteamVR.

I am using an i7-8700k 32Gb DDR4 and a 1080Ti, a 2080Ti would not handle maximum SS either, so I wait for the RTX-3080Ti and the next gen i9 or whatever will come next.

 

PC Hardware must improve and it will, the next years will be wonderful for VR enthusiasts and IL-2 will be even more a blast in VR.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Simple_Bless said:

Guys, I'm just saying that it would be great to fly favorite sim in better optimized VR.

 

Please state what you mean by that. Devs make performances as good as they can, VR or not. If they could make the sim look better and smoother they would do it, VR or not.

 

"Optimizing for MR" in my opinion might mean two things:

- Improving interface to make it more convenient in MR. That might be discussed but it does not seem like this is what you are talking about.

- Make it smoother (90 FPS no matter what on a reasonnable machine) at the price of simplified graphics. It is the choice of the only "pure" VR simulator I know, VTOL VR. It does not seems that it is what you are looking for either, as you said you found IL2 "ugly" in VR.

 

So I am confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, haltux said:

Please state what you mean by that. Devs make performances as good as they can, VR or not. If they could make the sim look better and smoother they would do it, VR or not.

 

"Optimizing for MR" in my opinion might mean two things:

 

I think he's using the term "optimise" to describe improving graphical quality, not improving performance. Wrong terminology, that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, blitze said:

No need for separate version of Il2 for optimised VR.  Il2 Great Battles series is already well optimised for VR and the Devs have done a great job of it.

[...]

The developers will continue to optimise for VR down the track and in a year or so we might see an engine update to DirectX12 or Vulcan which will help some more.  Hopefully at the same time there will be better support for Variable Shader Render Tech that will again help push pixels where needed i.e. the VR headset sweet spot.  At the moment the tech is developing quite rapidly but again, Il2 is well supported.  HAve a look at the VR thread for ideas to help you with your current setup.

 

7 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

IL-2 Great Battles is the BEST sim for VR enthusiasts.The major thing which needs to be improved is PC Hardware and VR HMD´s.

 

Much as I support the developers and love the game, IL2 is not fully optimized for VR. It has a hot thread on the CPU which limits overall framerates, and you need a highly clocked Intel CPU to hit a solid 80 or 90 FPS. Users with 5.2ghz 9900K and a 2080Ti are not able to achieve full framerates all the time. This is objectively not fully optimized. The game plays well in VR, yes, and it's probably the best VR flight sim, absolutely, but the engine could be improved. CPUs are not going to get much faster from a single threaded perspective, it's all about adding cores.

 

This is a fairly common problem in most games, though, it's not like the IL2 developers have done anything wrong. There are only a handful of games that can demonstrate FPS scaling above about 6 or 8 processor threads.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Alonzo I agree with that statement 100%.  Like it's modern FS counterpart, Il2 will have its engine updated to take advantage of multicore CPU's.   I would like to hope that this will be with the Normandy expansion and with the cross platform API.  We do though have to remember that it wasn't long ago they migrated across to DX11.

 

One Day.  That being - it is still a pretty great experience as my Il2 gets shredded in a front on pass by a 109 as I am trying to engage artillery on the deck and then I am hounded as I try to retreat loosing my wing and my life in the process - again 🤣

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2019 at 2:28 AM, Simple_Bless said:

Really enjoying my time playing favorite sim but still cant really enjoy it totally.

 

We understand you well, but let´s review the complaints:

 

1.- Identification: That´s limited by the VR headset resolution and the GPU power. Nothing that IL-2 devs can change. Along the years we will get better headsets and GPUs and id will get better and better. Today the Reverb offers a good resolution and future Pimax8KX will be also nice.

 

2.- Blurriness: That´s determined by the settings you apply in the game/SS, which is limited also by the GPU power and headset resolution. So as above, nothing that IL-2 devs can do about it.

 

3.- Framerates: That´s limited mainly by the CPU/RAM since it is very single-thread dependent. IL-2 for a 1080p monitor is quite OK for most of CPU/RAM. But in VR we reach some limitations which obliged us to decrease the game settings to have 80-90fps (if we don´t want to use ASW and the like techniques). Here I think IL-2 devs could do something to distribute the load of the calculations in more threads. But I think this is a really complicated thing. But this will not only benefit VR, it will be for VR and monitor users.

 

But overall, IL-2 VR is for me the best experience you can have today in VR. In fact it is the only game I play when I have some spare time.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing on "Blurriness", be sure not to use AA ingame or otherwise with VR.  Instead use VR Super Sampling and bump it till you get a reasonable combination of fps and image quality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, some of the guys just crazy... All I am saying, is that I am HAPPY with the game, but as an individual who lived a little bit I can also understand that there are always something that you can improve. When you using Lefuneste's mod, why everything is more clear and acceptable??? Because a person or a team took some time to adjust some things. This is what I am happy to do here, pay extra money to give them a little motivation to improve, that's all. No need to be a smartass and try to explain me what is going on now in the technologies nowadays )))

Simply think about what are they focusing on now, or before, or later, is VR optimization (adjustment) in there? They always do little things, for sure, but most of the time they spend to make the game bigger. My opinion is, this game is big enough to enjoy it, but they won't change their plan of STILL making money, so here I am wondering who else would consider pay extra for some different stuff to try to change their plan?

All of this is just a wondering, no need to be offended or too serious about it? Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think with VR still being such a niche, and within the flight sim community very much a niche in a niche, we are very fortunate that 1CGS has given the attention and work to VR support that we currently have, which is pretty darned good.  And without a doubt will continue to do going forward as is evident by some of the changes/additions continuing to be provided, like a manual IPD adjustment in game that was recently added.

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2019 at 8:56 PM, haltux said:

 

Please state what you mean by that. Devs make performances as good as they can, VR or not. If they could make the sim look better and smoother they would do it, VR or not.

 

"Optimizing for MR" in my opinion might mean two things:

- Improving interface to make it more convenient in MR. That might be discussed but it does not seem like this is what you are talking about.

- Make it smoother (90 FPS no matter what on a reasonnable machine) at the price of simplified graphics. It is the choice of the only "pure" VR simulator I know, VTOL VR. It does not seems that it is what you are looking for either, as you said you found IL2 "ugly" in VR.

 

So I am confused.



By optimizing, I meant all together, graphics and performance. You are saying that they are doing what they can and here is where I doubt it. Always something you can do, the only thing is, it is suppose to be reasonable. 

Never said il2 is ugly, only compare to the original monitor picture, that's why I created this topic. Love the game but want to make it better for VR users.

1 minute ago, dburne said:

Personally I think with VR still being such a niche, and within the flight sim community very much a niche in a niche, we are very fortunate that 1CGS has given the attention and work to VR support that we currently have, which is pretty darned good.  And without a doubt will continue to do going forward as is evident by some of the changes/additions continuing to be provided, like a manual IPD adjustment in game that was recently added.

 

 


I agree, just saying that I'm ready to encourage them with a simple donation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I'm using a Rift S with 8700k/1080ti and I think all of the IL2 VR games I have (Flying Circus, BOS, BOM, BOB) look fantastic in VR.  No..they aren't in 4k..but they definitely don't look blurry with my eyes and the thrill of being "in" the game in VR completely dwarfs any decrease in resolution regardless.

 

As for the other portion of the original post...for the money...going from a 1080ti to a 2080ti isn't worth it at the moment.  If you are running with at least an 8700k CPU and a 1080ti GPU...the $$$ cost in going to a 9700k, etc. and a 2080ti is so much higher than the actual performance gains that it doesn't make sense IMO unless you have money to burn.

 

Regardless....I think the current iteration of IL2 in VR...performance, graphics, etc.....is pretty fantastic and has come quite a long way from the initial offering.

 

Just my .02.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Simple_Bless said:

When you using Lefuneste's mod, why everything is more clear and acceptable???

 

I am not using mods in general but I think they are great for many people who want extra functions, and I admire the work done my the modders.

 

But what is exactly more "clear" and "acceptable" in the Lefuneste mod?

 

I have been visiting all the extras of the mod (which are impressive BTW) but I could not find any to improve identification (with no zoom), blurriness or framerates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, dburne said:

Personally I think with VR still being such a niche, and within the flight sim community very much a niche in a niche, we are very fortunate that 1CGS has given the attention and work to VR support that we currently have, which is pretty darned good.  And without a doubt will continue to do going forward as is evident by some of the changes/additions continuing to be provided, like a manual IPD adjustment in game that was recently added.

 

 

Where is the adjustment for IPD ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Stolle said:

Where is the adjustment for IPD ?

 

In the controls menu under the Service tab, bottom two selections.

 

LSHFT+Numpad +

LSHFT+Numpad Enter

 

Mainly adjusts the scale. You can do it while in cockpit to see the results.

 

 

Edited by dburne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2019 at 7:10 PM, Alonzo said:

 

 

Much as I support the developers and love the game, IL2 is not fully optimized for VR. It has a hot thread on the CPU which limits overall framerates, and you need a highly clocked Intel CPU to hit a solid 80 or 90 FPS. Users with 5.2ghz 9900K and a 2080Ti are not able to achieve full framerates all the time. This is objectively not fully optimized. The game plays well in VR, yes, and it's probably the best VR flight sim, absolutely, but the engine could be improved. CPUs are not going to get much faster from a single threaded perspective, it's all about adding cores.

 

This is a fairly common problem in most games, though, it's not like the IL2 developers have done anything wrong. There are only a handful of games that can demonstrate FPS scaling above about 6 or 8 processor threads.

 

This article on CPU limitations was written in 2005 and is still relevant today... http://www.gotw.ca/publications/concurrency-ddj.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still trying to figure out how could I make my reverb run 90fps smooth...just noticed I can maintain 90 fps in quick mission builder, but immediately when first ground AI appears in sight my fps dips down to 60-80. Only one train can cause this fps hit. My rig is 7600k 5 GHz ,single treath mark 2940, 1080ti. 

 

Really hope SteamVr could present ability to turn reprojection ON/OFF while playing . Motion reprojection Auto is bad at the moment . It will half frame rates even in situations where 90 fps is possible. 

 

Opencomposite was great with Rift S.... Even 60-70 fps is much smoother compared to 60-70 fps with SteamVr only

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Hartigan said:

I'm still trying to figure out how could I make my reverb run 90fps smooth...just noticed I can maintain 90 fps in quick mission builder, but immediately when first ground AI appears in sight my fps dips down to 60-80. Only one train can cause this fps hit. My rig is 7600k 5 GHz ,single treath mark 2940, 1080ti. 

 

Really hope SteamVr could present ability to turn reprojection ON/OFF while playing . Motion reprojection Auto is bad at the moment . It will half frame rates even in situations where 90 fps is possible. 

 

Opencomposite was great with Rift S.... Even 60-70 fps is much smoother compared to 60-70 fps with SteamVr only

Try 60Hz , runs much smoother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Hartigan said:

60hz works randomly ...fisheye effect ruins it. 😐

Have you tried lefuneste mod?

 

Also what Windows version are you running?

The very latest one, some said they fixed the fish eye effect. 

 

I cant tell because I reverted to an older Windows version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...