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Editor crashed every session for me this week, exept 2 times where I called it quits for the day.

It usually seemed to happen when I scrolled the map, while in birds eye view. Maybe I can record a video of it, recording the ME is difficult because my recording programs dont catch the view port properly, but I´ll see what I can do.

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Surely the solution would be to analyse the error details, but I'm not sure they'd get much attention.

Could of course be related to O/S, CPU, GPU, Motherboard, RAM, Drivers..... combinations of all of the above.

F'n 'puters :)

 

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I barely encounter crashes, only got a few, mainly related to specific objects, when I tried to edit or link them. going back to a backup almost everytime solved the problem for me

Edited by ironk79

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On 12/10/2019 at 11:10 AM, HBB*Hunger said:

Honestly, I had about two crashes in over one year now. Reading this thread is the complete opposite of my experience. 

Question is: why is there such a huge difference here

 

I had some crashes, win 10 pro 64bit, NVDIA GPU now,  but not for a while anymore. I think Windows could be a cause. I don't know what the resources are the FMB uses, but you could try a few things:

 

Remove VC basics, and reinstall them freshly downloaded in sequential order as much as is possible. If you're on a 64bit system: BOTH 32bit and 64bit versions should be installed. Also get the latest DotNET, but some programs still need the older versions like 2 or 3.5.

 

See if running as administrator makes a difference.

 

PS as the FMB crashes usually happen after or at a save it could very well be a permissions thing. Run the registry tweak 'take ownership' on the game folder, the user folders, and My Documents etc. I usually do that too on the whole windows - and program data folders. 

 

Also you could reinstall windows, but i am really a fan of Tweaking.com 's AIO windows repair for fixes. Download the portable (free) version if you want it.

PS There's all sorts of handy selectable sub program tools there, like resetting all permissions, you'll need to run 'takeownership' after that again probably..Boot into safe mode via this program when you seriously want to use it. Running SFC exe administrator is a must do. It's also embedded, but you could do that also via CMD.exe but then as administrator.

 

And do get rid of windows update definitively with Windows 10 update switch. Windows turns it on otherwise again and again by itself.; most windows updates are bloatware no one needs, and you can always manually install the imported ones, if they prove to be bug-free.

 

BEFORE YOU DO ALL THAT: make a restore point first, or make a boot partition backup with Acronis TrueImage, and i would suggest an older version installed on an USB drive or CD; procedures are a lot simpler and clearer that way.

Edited by jollyjack
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I can replicate and record various CTDs. If no one wants to do anything about it, I will just spend my time In other ways and try to avoid the things I have isolated that cause it. Some of them can’t be predicted though. I personally think it is not hardware related or windows related, because I don’t have this issue running any other graphics related programs. I’m not a programmer, just a consumer, so if it’s not a priority, we will just have to deal with it.

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On 12/15/2019 at 12:36 PM, HBB*Hunger said:

 

Sorry, but my maps are definately heavily loaded. I never had a crash zooming in or out, nor did it crashed when using a lot of cams. 

The only reason the ME crashes for me so far is, if I group link an active entety to a static block. 

 

Dont get me wrong, I do not say that the ME is flawless or that you are wrong, but the ME is absolutely fine for me and crashes are more than rare for me. 

 

v3P7YA2.jpg

 

That is one hell of a map. Congratulations. I thought mine was complex, but yours is another level. It is a kind of quantum physics experiment image. It remembers me many many years ago images I saw at the Cern (yes I had some business there) in Geneva pictures from the Gargamelle experiment. 

 

705928981_GaegamelleImage.thumb.jpeg.7b56d2e7f302a7c1a4adf7651da48830.jpeg

 

Sure this Cern image is primitive. We can all see that yours is just extremely refined detailed and more precise, kind of Higgs Boson experiment.

Probably you are running IL2 on a Cray type supercomputer. This is why you never crash. 🙂 

 

Anyway I have EXCELLENT news, I SOLVED my CRASH and some other problems. Reading this thread I tested a different way of working.

I used to open the ME with the setting to open automatically with the last opened file. Then I switch files etc. I now open the ME in its standard "factory" mode. Then I download the mission. If I want to change mission I exit the ME, and start it again and load the other mission.

By doing this even my most complex mission with all the links all the icons and icon text say everything displayed, I worked for today three hours intensively and no more crash. It is an immense progress.

 

The advantage of opening missions without exiting the editor is that you can copy something in a mission and then switch to another mission and paste what was copied. You can do this by saving groups and picking them in the Groups list. To do that you need anyway to close the ME and reopen it again so that it will refresh the group list.

 

So conclusion the problem is not with Windows or the hardware setup but probably how the ME manages the data in memory and so there is probably some issue in cleanup to avoid conflicts when multiple missions are managed in one unique session. I even have the feeling that there is a difference between a factory launching of the ME and the launch in the opening of the last mission mode. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

 

I used to open the ME with the setting to open automatically with the last opened file. Then I switch files etc. I now open the ME in its standard "factory" mode. Then I download the mission. If I want to change mission I exit the ME, and start it again and load the other mission.

By doing this even my most complex mission with all the links all the icons and icon text say everything displayed, I worked for today three hours intensively and no more crash. It is an immense progress.

 

The advantage of opening missions without exiting the editor is that you can copy something in a mission and then switch to another mission and paste what was copied. You can do this by saving groups and picking them in the Groups list. To do that you need anyway to close the ME and reopen it again so that it will refresh the group list.

 

So conclusion the problem is not with Windows or the hardware setup but probably how the ME manages the data in memory and so there is probably some issue in cleanup to avoid conflicts when multiple missions are managed in one unique session. I even have the feeling that there is a difference between a factory launching of the ME and the launch in the opening of the last mission mode. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never used the "open last mission" option, and I get crashes all the time.

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I cross fingers and will keep you informed if it is a random event for once to my advantage or not.

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A known bug is that the editor will crash if you open a new mission while you have a (sub) group set as active. Always set highest level as active before opening a new mission. Sticking to this, I do not get any crashes anymore ( unless I’m importing some huge group or something).

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Just now, SYN_Vander said:

A known bug is that the editor will crash if you open a new mission while you have a (sub) group set as active. Always set highest level as active before opening a new mission. Sticking to this, I do not get any crashes anymore ( unless I’m importing some huge group or something).

 

If only it were that simple for all of us.

I get crashes while zooming, while object linking, while panning on the map, while pasting, sometimes while saving.

Oh and sometimes, a really special thing happens where the mission I was trying to save gets corrupted and will never open again.

 

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Gambit,

It sounds like you have some unique issues that the rest of us may not. How long since you reinstalled all your hard drive software, updated drivers and ran on a relatively fresh hard drive? The only crashes I get working for hours at a time are related to the open groups and issues listed by others above. I know you are well versed in computer maintenance but you seem to have a severe case of the ME Flu.

 

 

15 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

A known bug is that the editor will crash if you open a new mission while you have a (sub) group set as active. Always set highest level as active before opening a new mission. Sticking to this, I do not get any crashes anymore ( unless I’m importing some huge group or something).

 

If this is a known issue, is it being addressed or is that what prompted the comment about we got it cause we asked for it? I'm a little late to this party.

 

 

 

Edited by Jaegermeister

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4 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

Gambit,

It sounds like you have some unique issues that the rest of us may not.

 

 

Nope - others have them as well, not unique to me.

These are long standing problems.

 

I have a 4K monitor, which might cause some of the crashes that 'some' others do not experience however.

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That sounds like a huge PITA. Maybe a dedicated computer with a more stable graphics display to edit missions on?

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Nah, not sure that's the cause A, and B I don't want to use a lower res-monitor in any case.

 

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7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

 

Oh and sometimes, a really special thing happens where the mission I was trying to save gets corrupted and will never open again.

 

I never had this corruption issue. 

 

Still going well does not seem to be a random positive vent. No more crashes yet.

I also often was in a configuration like SYN_Vander mentioned. Not any more as I exit systematically.

 

I will come back on this topic in a few days from now.

 

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:27 PM, Gambit21 said:

It’s not Windows.

 

On 12/17/2019 at 12:05 AM, IckyATLAS said:

 

 

Anyway I have EXCELLENT news, I SOLVED my CRASH and some other problems. Reading this thread I tested a different way of working.

I used to open the ME with the setting to open automatically with the last opened file. Then I switch files etc. I now open the ME in its standard "factory" mode. Then I download the mission. If I want to change mission I exit the ME, and start it again and load the other mission.

By doing this even my most complex mission with all the links all the icons and icon text say everything displayed, I worked for today three hours intensively and no more crash. It is an immense progress.

 

 

Well, i have been experimenting for about a week now, sometimes 3 hours in a run, with 3 different bombing missions with the cycling as cause for that. But relatively simple missions compared to some without too much grouping. (still need to figure out how to work with groups, especially the plane and target related ones).

 

Always opening with the last mission set to load, and a lot of exits and restarts for loading  the lot in the game. I had NO CRASHES.  I am not running as administrator, but my users account is the hidden UAC administrator account activated in windows.

 

 

Here's how to activate or de activate it:

 

 

Step 1. Type “cmd” in your search box, and right-click on it and select “Run as administrator” to run it with all the admin privileges.

 

 NOTE: You can press “Ctrl + Shift + Enter” after you type “cmd” on the search box to directly launch it with admin privileges.

 

Step 2. When the elevated command prompt box appears, type the following command and press Enter:

 

Net user administrator /active:yes

 

activate admin using command prompt

 

Step 3. If you want to set up a password for the Super-Administrator account type the following command in below the previously mentioned command:

 

Net user administrator password

Net user administrator /active:yes

 

Step 4. If you wish to disable the super-admin account after your job is done with the account type in the following command:

 

Net user administrator /active:no

 

 

Edited by jollyjack
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After some practice with the new method here is how it stands. Very little number of crashes, but still some. So it does make a difference to systematically close the ME when changing mission.

It is also good practice if after a few hours (yesss I can work now for two hours without a crash) of work where you have created and modified a lot (saving often) you close the ME and reopen it again to save or import groups.

The crashes I had was when trying to save or manipulate a group that has been a lot modified. But if after all the modifications, I save and close the ME, and then reopen again the mission and then save the groups I have less problems.

I have a lot of links that are across groups or between objects of different groups.

My groups can be 5 level deep for some. The crashes happen "often" when after having worked and modified a lot links and objects and sometimes added subgroups in a group and then I want to manipulate the whole group to save it or whatever else. 

 

Working in multiple steps helps:

Step 1 : Open your ME in the factory or standard default mode, then load your mission, do the work, always save often. Then close the ME after a last save.

Step 2: If you have to do a lot of work for a long time then as you do "saves" often, repeat Step 1from time to time.

Step 3: Reopen the ME and load your mission. Now you can work on groups like saving them so that they will appear in group list.

 

For Jollyjack: I run as an administrator. I have to check about your configuration.

 

For Gambit21: One very useful application of the "Search and Select" tool is when you want to save a subgroup in a deep level you can the just use search and select and you can select directly that particular subgroup and save it. The advantage of "Search and Select" is that it gives you direct access as if the hierarchical structure of the groups did not exist. And as it acts as a ctr/select function you can do multiple combined selection anywhere is your structure. It avoids the need to open the group tree use of Set as Working and then having to reset. Just faster and simpler.

 

Here is what I think may happen: The ME editor has to manage all the database structure the groups, the numbering, the links etc. When one does a lot of modifications like changing blocks into linked entities, adding links, creating new groups deleting objects here and there etc. then closing the ME and reopening the mission probably cleans up or sets the database straight. I have seen numbers change for example.

 

P.S.

This evening 4 hours of work no crash at all.

 

Edited by IckyATLAS

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Jack you are using relatively simple missions, not fleshed out campaign missions - it makes a huge difference.

I can work for hours as well on smaller missions. Sometimes I can work for hours on more complex missions...just depends.

 

It often goes like this for me when working on a campaign mission - maybe in this case I've copied a group to paste into another mission, and just had a crash.

re-open editor, select group, move camera to object - CRASH

re-open editor, select group, move camera to object - mouse wheel zoom - CRASH

re-open editor, select group, move camera to object - past group - CRASH

re-open editor, pan camera - CRASH.

 

The group stored in memory is not the issue, I just used that for this example.

I think the combo of the unstable editor to begin with, and perhaps a 4K monitor causing further issues.

 

The editor seeming doesn't 'cue' tasks properly under the hood either,  which again causes further problems and crashes.

Then there are times when the editor seems to "settle down" and I don't get another crash until I exit the editor for a test, then re-open it to continue work.

 

 

Edited by Gambit21

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Just to mention, it's probably worst for me when I'm manipulating map objects, before I've put anything in the mission myself.

Typical effect : Open mission / Double click AF (or other object) to get to your map location / Right click and drag... Crash.

If I repeat this sequence this can happen 3-4 in a row, before I eventually do something different.

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It is just incredible how this crash issues and behaviors are different for each of us. Maybe there is something more fundamental that we all miss here. 

But I would like to have at least a comment from Jason or the Devs.

Do they have the same issues, and if NO then WHY? What do they do that is different from the way we use it.

 

And frankly I do not understand Jason's strategy on this point here. The better he helps people create missions and campaigns the better it is for him, if he can sell right ?

It's a win-win. At the moment he is more in a loose-loose strategy.

 

 

Edited by IckyATLAS

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On the Flying Circus store page, 'Mission Editor support' is listed as one of the product's features, in which case it is not unreasonable to expect the referenced application to be a supported and stable product. I wonder if that page will stay the same.

 

il2_me_feature.thumb.jpg.3c3719f81a1eb1d132ae08cad43c2cae.jpg

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13 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

It is just incredible how this crash issues and behaviors are different for each of us. Maybe there is something more fundamental that we all miss here. 

But I would like to have at least a comment from Jason or the Devs.

Do they have the same issues, and if NO then WHY? What do they do that is different from the way we use it.

I can tell about my personal situation. Most of the time I use the editor from the user version, the same as you and I've no any problems with ME.

For example, in October-November of this year I had to completely redo 4 campaigns. These are 55 missions on the Moscow, Stalingrad and Prokhorovka maps. Sometimes I had to consistently open 10-15 missions. If you played my campaigns, you know that the missions are very heavy and full of objects.  There was not any crash during this stretch of work... I know only one way to cause the editor to crash on my computer - I must open the group and then, without closing it, try to open a new mission.

My specs: i7 6700, Z170, 32 GB DDR4, GTX 1070, Win7x64.

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26 minutes ago, BlackSix said:

I can tell about my personal situation. Most of the time I use the editor from the user version, the same as you and I've no any problems with ME.

For example, in October-November of this year I had to completely redo 4 campaigns. These are 55 missions on the Moscow, Stalingrad and Prokhorovka maps. Sometimes I had to consistently open 10-15 missions. If you played my campaigns, you know that the missions are very heavy and full of objects.  There was not any crash during this stretch of work... I know only one way to cause the editor to crash on my computer - I must open the group and then, without closing it, try to open a new mission.

My specs: i7 6700, Z170, 32 GB DDR4, GTX 1070, Win7x64.

Thank you very much for sharing this info. This may show that the behavior of the ME may be individual computer system dependent means hardware/software and could be interaction with whatever other applications are running at the same time or in the background like security and protection software. I feel there is no clear solution here except managing carefully the handling of groups and opening of missions. When I work with the ME my memory RAM usage is around 7GB (with no other opened applications, just Windows and all the background stuff and I have some). For those with small amounts of RAM 8-12 GB when dealing with heavy missions memory it could be a problem.

Now that I apply a very strict procedure to manage groups and opening missions, I must admit I can work for hours and have practically no crash. 

My specs i9 9900K, Asus ROG Maximus XI Extreme, 64GB DDR4, GTX 2080 Ti, Win10 x64.

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1 hour ago, BlackSix said:

I can tell about my personal situation. Most of the time I use the editor from the user version, the same as you and I've no any problems with ME.

For example, in October-November of this year I had to completely redo 4 campaigns. These are 55 missions on the Moscow, Stalingrad and Prokhorovka maps. Sometimes I had to consistently open 10-15 missions. If you played my campaigns, you know that the missions are very heavy and full of objects.  There was not any crash during this stretch of work... I know only one way to cause the editor to crash on my computer - I must open the group and then, without closing it, try to open a new mission.

My specs: i7 6700, Z170, 32 GB DDR4, GTX 1070, Win7x64.

I can only agree with this statement. I have no crash at all working on my campaigns and latest FC mini campaign. The only way I can crash the ME is the same as Blacksix, changing missions without closing a subgroup that its open. Also asked Vander and he has the same experience.

My specs i5 6600K, Z170 , 32GB DDR4, GTX 960 Ti, Win10 x64

 

Haash

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I had a lot of crashes with those PC specs:
 

CPU: i5-4460 @ 3.2 GHz
Grafikkarte: GTX 960
RAM: 8 Gb DDR3
Win7

Now I just upgraded to Win10 and 16 Gb DDR3 RAM.
I´ll test over the weekend if something changed.

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No amount of opening / saving / making sure groups and sub-groups are closed, is stopping crashes here.

FWIW - I'm on Win7 Pro, operating at 4k. i5-7600k, 16gb RAM.

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Well any application that frequently crashes for whatever % of users, be it 30% or 60% clearly indicates a problem.

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My editor crashes a lot. I never open two missions, I always shut down in-between. I get crashes changing group, linking stuff, all sorts.

 

If the developers wanted to provide a debug build that creates crash dumps, I would happily submit crash reports and include detail of what I was doing at the time of the crash. That's the only real way to figure out what's causing crashes -- get the computer to tell you what the problem is. (Same as performance problems -- don't guess, get the machine to give you a frame time breakdown).

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Hi there

 

From my experiances I can say that there is absolutely NO general thing that kills the editor.
I've been working on small missions with and without crashes.

I've been switching and moving between groups in my missions with and without crashes.

 

Actually my current mission size is 61.097 kB (no type mismatch, the mission is very large and that is actually about 10% size of what it will have when I've finished it) uncompresses mission file
and sometimes I can make a lot of changes, sometimes it crashes after the second change.

 

But what I can confirm is, that after closing the editor and trying to start IL2 the game is telling me,

that another instance is already running.  Afterwards I had a look at the task manager, and the editor was still running...

 

So I really think the devs should implement some debugging to locate the reason for these crashes...

 

Deci

 

 

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When switching between the game and editor, I have to wait 5-6 seconds, if not the  ..still running thing comes up.

I've never seen it if I've waited long enough.

S!

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Is it only 4K users who have many crashes?  I use a 4K TV.    90% of mine are when dragging the map.  Never open two missions - just work on one then exit to check in game. 

 

W7 Enterprise 64-bit, GTX 1080, 953GB SSD etc - can run game on Ultra: I doubt that my PC is short of what should be needed.

 

  

 

 

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On 12/27/2019 at 9:38 AM, Alonzo said:

My editor crashes a lot. I never open two missions, I always shut down in-between. I get crashes changing group, linking stuff, all sorts.

 

If the developers wanted to provide a debug build that creates crash dumps, I would happily submit crash reports 

 

No need - the current editor produces dump files - I have submitted MANY over a long period of time now.

 

10 more just yesterday.

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curious...i do not have a lot of issues on Moscow, or Stalingrad Maps.  Kuban and Bodenplatte crash on me constantly if I zoom in too fast, or try to move around on the map too much.  I gave up on trying to build a mission on Prokhorovka.

 

And does not seem to be connected to size.  I use PWCG for the base of my MP missions, and the mission file is over 15mb when I start.

 

Is this pretty much the same as others, or are others having problems in Moscow and Stalingrad maps.

Edited by WWSitttingDuck

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On 12/19/2019 at 12:41 PM, Zooropa_Fly said:

Just to mention, it's probably worst for me when I'm manipulating map objects, before I've put anything in the mission myself.

Typical effect : Open mission / Double click AF (or other object) to get to your map location / Right click and drag... Crash.

If I repeat this sequence this can happen 3-4 in a row, before I eventually do something different.

 

About the same here, but I'd add that when I first add a new group to a brand new mission I'm almost ensured a crash.   It's as if the initial XML or database writing or initializing is the problem.  Strangest thing is, it then just gets more and more stable over time.  After a 4-day drunken weekend I can have tons of objects and triggers and all kinds of spaghetti links all over the place but it's solid as a rock, go figure. 

 

System specs are i7-4790K, Nvida GTX970+replaced w/1660ti, 16Gb RAM, Win10, Steam version of BoX if that matters.

 

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I just isolated the cause of a consistent ME crash.

 

If there are 2 objects placed directly on top of each other in the same group, such as 2 buildings that were accidentally placed twice, trying to connect an MCU to them will cause a crash. I have found a couple of examples of duplicate buildings placed in certain cities on the Rheinland map while applying damage and deleting the duplicate object fixes the problem. It's unfortunate that it takes a crash to locate them, but I can't avoid that. I just save a lot now.    

 

Also I am getting no crashes now other than this if I close out all groups before saving and switching to another mission.

 

 

Edited by Jaegermeister

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On 12/31/2019 at 3:02 PM, Jaegermeister said:

I just isolated the cause of a consistent ME crash.

 

If there are 2 objects placed directly on top of each other in the same group, such as 2 buildings that were accidentally placed twice, trying to connect an MCU to them will cause a crash. I have found a couple of examples of duplicate buildings placed in certain cities on the Rheinland map while applying damage and deleting the duplicate object fixes the problem. It's unfortunate that it takes a crash to locate them, but I can't avoid that. I just save a lot now.    

 

Also I am getting no crashes now other than this if I close out all groups before saving and switching to another mission.

 

 

That will be hard to check for any duplicate building. There are so many. This work of checking and cleaning the database of duplicates should be done by the devs during the design and test phase.

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I know what sometimes works for some will not work for others, but I have never been able to open up the  Prokhorovka map in ME. It would sit forever, then just kick me to the desktop.

 

I change my resolution down from 2560 x 1600 to 1920 x 1200, and was able to open the  Prokhorovka map for the first time.

 

Opened up a Rheinland map in ME that usually I have to edit with very soft hands, and  moved around and zoomed in and out like crazy and I could not make it crash.  It was also a ton more responsive....at the higher resolution I would move the mouse, and the map would not respond for a sec or two (then usually crash)

 

So might be worth someones time to try ME at lower resolutions.

 

 

 

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Ok, now my editor is constantly freezing whenever I try to zoom in to the maximum level.
Reason: unknown, maybe size (115.641 kB)

 

Deci

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