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Spotting compared to the game

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2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

^ The easier solution to this problem is a higher resolution display. 

 

I will graciously accept donations sent me in the form of 4k-res 42" screens and the hardware to back it up.

 

Unless someone's handing them out with shipping included,  I would still point back towards the LOD mesh solution I suggested earlier (not that I'm discouraging anyone from going all philanthropic, mind you)

Edited by 19//Moach
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I've made a picture comparison to highlight the issue:

 

image.thumb.png.cd4371586ce50bd6033b2f5df39ef3a1.png

 

 

See the attachment for the image in its full resolution - I have cropped the shots, but have not rescaled graphics except where noted.

 

Take particular notice of the images blown up in the far right -- Those are the exact same aircraft you see in the image just to the left of them. Pay attention to the amount of pixels that are completely omitted from rendering. This is not an artifact of the MS Paint enlargement process. The zoomed in image (third pic from the left) exhibits the exact same amount of invisible wings 

 

Notice also, on the first and second shots, the third (bottom) aircraft is completely invisible. It can be seen only after zooming into the area, as shown on the right. Even so, only parts of the plane are actually displayed.

 

In a practical setting, it ends up that aircraft in dogfighting range are (from more than half up to completely) invisible around 50% of the time. 

 

It is basically impossible to maintain continuous tracking of a target farther than 500m without at resorting to predicting by guesswork or "zoom-jockeying" at various times while that airplane moves around your point of view.

 

 

There is little that can be done by tweaking AA settings, even for an expert user (I am a game programmer myself, mind you, I tweak everything) that will have any significant impact on these results. The problem is inherent of the nature of pixels and cannot be effectively resolved in software without non-trivial efforts.

 

 

The "LoD Model Push"  workaround I mentioned in the previous page however, should provide an effective workaround with very much trivial alterations. 

 

It would require nothing done by the engineering team, it is purely an artwork related task, though it does not even require a skilled 3D artist to perform.

 

It is a very simple (even if moderately time consuming) process of applying Push modifiers of increasing strength to each farther LoD mesh, then adjusting their push values to balloon out meshes enough to ensure that pixels are not "missed" on the resulting image in the game. 

 

 

Results can be easily verified with a screenshot of the game pasted onto MS Paint. Then enlarge (ctrl+mousewheel) and see how much of the plane is actually visible at any given distance.    Adjust until the entire airplane is satisfactorily free of missing bits at any distance and zoom combinations.

 

 

Edited by 19//Moach
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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

^ The easier solution to this problem is a higher resolution display. 

 

Then this should be mentioned as a hardware requirement on the store/steam page. Higher res monitor, means a better CPU/GPU combo as well, increasing the overall price of the game for the user....

 

Basically what you're saying is that for a buyer to enjoy this game, they need to shell out more money, than the already large price tag.

Edited by Raven109
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5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

^ The easier solution to this problem is a higher resolution display. 

 

PicardFacepalm.thumb.jpg.c2e48699cbb159a90ecebc79021f9cb8.jpg

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7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

^ The easier solution to this problem is a higher resolution display. 

 

It's even easier to hire a PA or butler help you spotting planes by looking at your moniter over your shoulder. 

Two sets of eyes make a big difference. 

Edited by [DBS]Browning
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Spotting issues are not just about resolution, as this IL-2 GB in-game issue shows:

 

Problem is, the metallic finish is currently wrongly applied to Allied aircraft that don't have metallic finish.  

 

Allied aircraft that have camouflage paint finish are being unfairly highlighted as metallic (shine, shimmer, bright white from very long distances) when they are not; for example, Spitfire, Tempest and P51 Mustang with British camouflage. 

 

Consequently, Allied fighters stand out and are easier to follow and German fighters are harder to detect and harder to follow and maintain in visual contact.

 

It is very uncomfortable to fly Allied aircraft, even though camouflaged, in the knowledge that one is highlighted in this way and the opposition are not; this is a clear unfair advantage to the Axis side.  It is one of the reasons I have not been flying much lately and have gone off IL-2 somewhat.  I hope the developers fix this soon; I would hope it is easy to fix by correcting aircraft LOD codes.

 

This and other issues surrounding the new IL-2 GB graphics and visibility systems are not helping customer confidence at the moment.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12255-graphics-models-and-maps/page/12/

 

 3df4a8b29c688e43cbd623592b12b7c9.png

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/56416-aircraft-visibility-bug-bopb/?tab=comments#comment-866877

 

Happy landings,

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5 hours ago, 19//Moach said:

I've made a picture comparison to highlight the issue:

 

 

This is definitely an issue but it’s just the inherent limitation of displays / graphics. The worst I experienced this effect was in Cliffs of Dover (original) which didn’t have any antialiasing and this is the effect you’d get. Whole pieces of an aircraft vanishing. I trust the examples above have AA on?

Maybe it would be better if IL-2 had a higher AA setting available than 4x. RoF has 8x and DCS had 16x at one point. 4x AA is pretty weak for this type of game. Changing the shape of an LOD model won’t get rid of the reality of pixels on a screen. At some size any small piece will alias out of view. 

7 hours ago, 19//Moach said:

 

I will graciously accept donations sent me in the form of 4k-res 42" screens and the hardware to back it up.

I realize that might not be a feasible solution for many but that’s the only way to get rid of seeing larger pixels on your screen. 1440p is an option as well and easier on the GPU

6 hours ago, L3Pl4K said:

You can try downsampling, maybe the plane will have some pixel more.

https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/dsr/technology

 

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/vsr

The trouble with DSR or supersampling is that it adds the performance cost of a higher resolution screen without much of the benefit. It won’t really improve the situation above. And Nividia’s claim that it’s “giving you 4K, 3840x2160-quality graphics on any screen.” is hilariously false. Does anyone believe that a graphics card can add pixels to your screen?

You’re better off running the native resolution of your display. 

Edited by SharpeXB

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

The trouble with DSR or supersampling is that it adds the performance cost of a higher resolution screen without much of the benefit. It won’t really improve the situation above. And Nividia’s claim that it’s “giving you 4K, 3840x2160-quality graphics on any screen.” is hilariously false. Does anyone believe that a graphics card can add pixels to your screen?

You’re better off running the native resolution of your display. 

Maybe a misunderstanding. I do not know Nvidia`s claim. A test should not be  complicated. In best case, the shape of the aircrafts, are more noticeable in some situations and GPU can render enough FPS.

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2 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

Spotting issues are not just about resolution, as this IL-2 GB in-game issue shows:

 

Problem is, the metallic finish is currently wrongly applied to Allied aircraft that don't have metallic finish.  

 

Allied aircraft that have camouflage paint finish are being unfairly highlighted as metallic (shine, shimmer, bright white from very long distances) when they are not; for example, Spitfire, Tempest and P51 Mustang with British camouflage. 

 

Consequently, Allied fighters stand out and are easier to follow and German fighters are harder to detect and harder to follow and maintain in visual contact.

 

It is very uncomfortable to fly Allied aircraft, even though camouflaged, in the knowledge that one is highlighted in this way and the opposition are not; this is a clear unfair advantage to the Axis side.  It is one of the reasons I have not been flying much lately and have gone off IL-2 somewhat.  I hope the developers fix this soon; I would hope it is easy to fix by correcting aircraft LOD codes.

 

This and other issues surrounding the new IL-2 GB graphics and visibility systems are not helping customer confidence at the moment.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12255-graphics-models-and-maps/page/12/

 

 3df4a8b29c688e43cbd623592b12b7c9.png

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/56416-aircraft-visibility-bug-bopb/?tab=comments#comment-866877

 

 

I don't know how the liveries behave in game or if one side is more pronounced than the other, but camouflage gets lit up by the sun in all sorts of surfaces in real life. I have been looking for it since 2017 and I have seen several footage of WWII aircraft, including a Spitfire with olive green camouflage being lit up by the sun. That Tempest looks right to me (not sure where the sun is). I'm not sure about the Bf 109 because he's in a different angle, banked left. The same with WWI. Depending on sun position, it gets pretty bright, almost as if using a bloom effect. I imagine not so much as plain metal aircraft, but bright nonetheless.

 

That was one of the gripes I had with FC, since ROF has this effect pretty much dialed down. Depending on the sun position, wings and fuselage (most are camouflaged) would lit up pretty nicely and we could spot contacts ten times better. It gave those butterflies in the stomach, a rapport with reality.

 

Over here, everything is opaque, blend. We barely see flak if it is to low on the deck and we are above 7000ft. the other day I was at 7/8000ft and the airfield was being attacked a few miles away. I could see nothing. I dove to the deck and there was MG fire all over like a Christmas tree. Flares also have a very limited range, especially if they are shot down below. Things blend with the terrain like a quicksand.

 

These contrast bugs / flaws need to be worked on. I imagine it would prevent us from losing foes in a tight dogfight, something very common in Flying Circus.

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24 minutes ago, L3Pl4K said:

Maybe a misunderstanding. I do not know Nvidia`s claim. A test should not be  complicated. In best case, the shape of the aircrafts, are more noticeable in some situations and GPU can render enough FPS.

Super sapling is really the ideal form of antialiasing. But It’s just too expensive performance wise. For that cost you could just run a higher native res on a screen and it would look better. 
look at it this way, in order to run 4x DSR you’d need a 2080Ti in order to keep a decent FPS. If you can afford a 2080Ti then get a 4K monitor. Why connect a $1,300 graphics card to a 1080p monitor?

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3 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

I don't know how the liveries behave in game or if one side is more pronounced than the other, but camouflage gets lit up by the sun in all sorts of surfaces in real life. I have been looking for it since 2017 and I have seen several footage of WWII aircraft, including a Spitfire with olive green camouflage being lit up by the sun. That Tempest looks right to me (not sure where the sun is). I'm not sure about the Bf 109 because he's in a different angle, banked left. The same with WWI. Depending on sun position, it gets pretty bright, almost as if using a bloom effect. I imagine not so much as plain metal aircraft, but bright nonetheless.

 

That was one of the gripes I had with FC, since ROF has this effect pretty much dialed down. Depending on the sun position, wings and fuselage (most are camouflaged) would lit up pretty nicely and we could spot contacts ten times better. It gave those butterflies in the stomach, a rapport with reality.

 

Over here, everything is opaque, blend. We barely see flak if it is to low on the deck and we are above 7000ft. the other day I was at 7/8000ft and the airfield was being attacked a few miles away. I could see nothing. I dove to the deck and there was MG fire all over like a Christmas tree. Flares also have a very limited range, especially if they are shot down below. Things blend with the terrain like a quicksand.

 

These contrast bugs / flaws need to be worked on. I imagine it would prevent us from losing foes in a tight dogfight, something very common in Flying Circus.

 

It's ridiculous ,just observerd the same plane 

zoom out, plane is white, 

 

image.png.4d237dd8d98f62aa7ec41c17f1a8a421.png

 

zoom in  -  my position relative the same  - height

 

Now it has camouflage /skin, zoom out and again white dots , sun postion do not change - if did it's because of my zoom level 😉

 

image.png.c46b483f591ff0394ef564887716a4b5.png

 

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

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3 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

I don't know how the liveries behave in game or if one side is more pronounced than the other, but camouflage gets lit up by the sun in all sorts of surfaces in real life. I have been looking for it since 2017 and I have seen several footage of WWII aircraft, including a Spitfire with olive green camouflage being lit up by the sun. That Tempest looks right to me (not sure where the sun is). I'm not sure about the Bf 109 because he's in a different angle, banked left. The same with WWI. Depending on sun position, it gets pretty bright, almost as if using a bloom effect. I imagine not so much as plain metal aircraft, but bright nonetheless.

 

That was one of the gripes I had with FC, since ROF has this effect pretty much dialed down. Depending on the sun position, wings and fuselage (most are camouflaged) would lit up pretty nicely and we could spot contacts ten times better. It gave those butterflies in the stomach, a rapport with reality.

 

Over here, everything is opaque, blend. We barely see flak if it is to low on the deck and we are above 7000ft. the other day I was at 7/8000ft and the airfield was being attacked a few miles away. I could see nothing. I dove to the deck and there was MG fire all over like a Christmas tree. Flares also have a very limited range, especially if they are shot down below. Things blend with the terrain like a quicksand.

 

These contrast bugs / flaws need to be worked on. I imagine it would prevent us from losing foes in a tight dogfight, something very common in Flying Circus.

 

This particular issue that I have raised does not apply to Flying Circus.  In FC all aircraft seem to be treated the same in this respect, with no metallic effect because no metallic aircraft are in play.  It is clear and obvious which aircraft have been wrongly given shiny metallic LOD's for WW2 and which ones have not.  For example, set up 8 Tempest vs 8 FW 190-D at about 5,000 ft at 1200 hrs on a sunny day over a densely wooded area and it is very noticeable.  No one is saying that aircraft should not be lit up by the sun, but camouflaged aircraft for the Allied side are not being treated the same as camouflaged aircraft on the Axis side for WW2, so something is wrong.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

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In game zoom is also broken/doing some strange shit, take a look: first screen ingame zoom max zoom in: second screen lefuenste mod (3d migoto) zoom 5x, also worth noting that when you use lefeunste mod the planes move really slow in 5x zoom

 

 

 

 

Il-2 2019-12-21 23-34-36.jpg

Il-2 2019-12-21 23-34-40.jpg

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1 hour ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

 

It's ridiculous ,just observerd the same plane 

zoom out, plane is white, 

 

Now it has camouflage /skin, zoom out and again white dots , sun postion do not change - if did it's because of my zoom level 😉

 

Is this what you are seeing? I made a report of this already

 

 

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12 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Super sapling is really the ideal form of antialiasing. But It’s just too expensive performance wise. For that cost you could just run a higher native res on a screen and it would look better. 
look at it this way, in order to run 4x DSR you’d need a 2080Ti in order to keep a decent FPS. If you can afford a 2080Ti then get a 4K monitor. Why connect a $1,300 graphics card to a 1080p monitor?

Some people use 1080p screens with high refresh rates for e sports.

https://www.asus.com/Monitors/ROG-Strix-XG248Q/

To maintain 240  FPS a 2080Ti could make sense.

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I have recently discovered that the in-game AntiAliasing setting box is critical to one's ability to track a middle-distance aircraft.

 

As long as that setting is kept at 4x, (maximum)  the intermittent vanishing problem is significantly reduced.  This doesn't completely solve the issue, but it does lower the likelihood of a nearby plane going invisible to less than 50% of the time. 

 

I have had good results with the settings that follow:

 

Anti-Aliasing: 4x

HDR: off

SSAO: off

Shapen Filter: off

Vsync: off

Dynamic res:  .9

FPS target: 30 (or whatever your GPU is capable of confidently holding up)

Alternate visibility: off

 

 

With general quality preset on LOW, (budget pc here) there are still ugly telltale blobs around airplanes seen against clouds.  At pixel-dot distances, these blobs are often several pixels wide, presenting a wide dark halo giving away anyone coming out of a cloud. This makes it impossible for me to tell how easy/hard it should actually be to find an enemy in front of a cloud. (IRL, clouds can either camouflage or highlight a plane, depending on lighting conditions)

 

Either way - The AA:4x setting does help a lot and I found that with these settings, I could actually hold my own in dogfights against the same AI that would reliably get the better of me most of the time when I had AA set to 2X or Off.

 

It is therefore advisable for everyone to do have the Ingame AA box set at maximum, even if other settings must yield and be lowered to maintain performance for it. (not too bad a hit, I found, even on rather low-end hardware)

 

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3 hours ago, 19//Moach said:

there are still ugly telltale blobs around airplanes seen against clouds.  At pixel-dot distances, these blobs are often several pixels wide, presenting a wide dark halo giving away anyone coming out of a cloud.

This has been a problem from the very beginning. It’s because AA doesn’t function in front of clouds. It’s supposed to be corrected soon I understand. 

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