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Yes, I know, I didn't have idea where to post this, so I post it in the most visible part of the forum.

 

I read this today:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28108-rise-of-flight-needs-attention/

 

And just set a "QMB" in Rise of Flight (bought it last year I think but never gave it any attention at all).

 

My question is:

Is FC an "upgrade" or "continuation" of RoF?

 

Supposing I have none of them, should I buy the "newer" and "better" one (aka FC) and ignore RoF?

 

What I want to know is, did devs make FC to "replace" RoF?

Or I could ask in another way: if I have RoF, why should I buy FC? What are the reasons, if its a WWI sim made by the same company?

 

Note that Im making this questions from total ignorance, Im not even sure the dev teams are the same for both games, so I apologise if those questions are out of place.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edit:

Now that I think about it better, I guess we could assume RoF -> FC case is just as 1946 -> BoX one, one game replaces the other because its better or polished in some aspects, but I think the later are from different dev teams, so it wouldn't be the exact same case.

Edited by ME-BFMasserME262

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Yes FC is the latest for WWI and is currently seeing development, ROF is no longer being developed.

FC fits in with the IL-2 Great Battles series.

ROF was pretty popular and undoubtedly why the devs decided to do FC for Great Battles. Depending on it's success will determine if more iterations to come.

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2 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Don't you ever read the Dev diaries?

 

Bad day, Arthur?

 

10 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

Yes, I know, I didn't have idea where to post this, so I post it in the most visible part of the forum.

 

I read this today:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28108-rise-of-flight-needs-attention/

 

And just set a "QMB" in Rise of Flight (bought it last year I think but never gave it any attention at all).

 

My question is:

Is FC an "upgrade" or "continuation" of RoF?

 

Supposing I have none of them, should I buy the "newer" and "better" one (aka FC) and ignore RoF?

 

What I want to know is, did devs make FC to "replace" RoF?

Or I could ask in another way: if I have RoF, why should I buy FC? What are the reasons, if its a WWI sim made by the same company?

 

Note that Im making this questions from total ignorance, Im not even sure the dev teams are the same for both games, so I apologise if those questions are out of place.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edit:

Now that I think about it better, I guess we could assume RoF -> FC case is just as 1946 -> BoX one, one game replaces the other because its better or polished in some aspects, but I think the later are from different dev teams, so it wouldn't be the exact same case.

 Head to the official FC thread, you'll find more answers already there. You could also check this review: https://stormbirds.blog/2019/11/18/flying-circus-vol-1-full-review/

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17 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

Yes, I know, I didn't have idea where to post this, so I post it in the most visible part of the forum.

 

I read this today:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28108-rise-of-flight-needs-attention/

 

And just set a "QMB" in Rise of Flight (bought it last year I think but never gave it any attention at all).

 

My question is:

Is FC an "upgrade" or "continuation" of RoF?

 

Supposing I have none of them, should I buy the "newer" and "better" one (aka FC) and ignore RoF?

 

What I want to know is, did devs make FC to "replace" RoF?

Or I could ask in another way: if I have RoF, why should I buy FC? What are the reasons, if its a WWI sim made by the same company?

 

Note that Im making this questions from total ignorance, Im not even sure the dev teams are the same for both games, so I apologise if those questions are out of place.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edit:

Now that I think about it better, I guess we could assume RoF -> FC case is just as 1946 -> BoX one, one game replaces the other because its better or polished in some aspects, but I think the later are from different dev teams, so it wouldn't be the exact same case.

 

Hi Masser,

 

I think my recent review of Flying Circus Vol 1 might answer a lot of your questions. https://stormbirds.blog/2019/11/18/flying-circus-vol-1-full-review/

 

Rise of Flight is an incredible product and it still has quite a lot of charm to it. But it's also starting to feel it's age and Flying Circus is 1CGS' attempt at recapturing the fun that is WWI aerial flying and combat in their newer engine and series. There's a huge benefit to being able to start up a single product and go from WWI to WWII and back again without even leaving the game.

 

Flying Circus' biggest issue is single player content which it needs more of and I also think there's some question on the future. I really hope for a Vol 2 because if there is I think that will put it over the top for a lot of sim fans. As it is, Vol 1 is fun, it has great aircraft, and if you can get involved online you'll have a really great time.

 

 

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The thing with FC is you get all the benefits of BOX. Flying a BOX quality WWI plane over that gorgeous terrain with the beautiful atmospherics is really, really nice.

 

 

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I believe VR is the future in simming. FC has it, ROF will not have it. It may be not a concern now, but in the future, with some better VR gear it may become so common that nobody will play games on monitors. Who knows?

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1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

The thing with FC is you get all the benefits of BOX. Flying a BOX quality WWI plane over that gorgeous terrain with the beautiful atmospherics is really, really nice.

 

 

 

Na, not really. I just bought it, because I love WW2 and loved RoF and must say I am not really happy with the price-to-quality relation.

FM is roughly the same, including the Brisfits quirks, the quality of the cockpits and textures is, save for the gunner/copilots goggles, not significantly higher or prettier then RoF, the plane selection is very condensed.. and while that maybe even could make sense to concentrate on the 1918ish timeframe only, the selection is not optimal and means mostly meaningless combat over the front with the central side on a disadvantage, planewise. The Pfalz DXII would have been a better choice over the Pfalz DIII, imho but the main issue is the lack of "Mission planes", ie: 2 seaters which were the whole reason why scouts where over the front: to enable own ops and dissalow enemy ones. No Gothas, no H400, no seaplanes, no quirky early war planes, no Be2, all the things that made RoF alive and diverese are missing and it is the umpteens endless flow of camels vs Dr1s or boom-n-zoom allies feasting on albies, which I personally find rather sad and not really making up what the fascinating side of WW1 is..

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Rise of flight is an amazing game and got me into Box, but like others have said it's starting to show it's age. I really hope they do some campaigns for it, as I only play single player. Also Flying circus has VR support which Rof does not have and I really wanted to fly WW1 aircraft in VR.

 

Out of the two I would buy FC, but if you only play single player it will be very limited in what you can do, compared to Rof

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If you can afford FC, you can *easily* afford Rise of Flight.  Wait for a sale and pick up all the planes you want, dirt cheap.

 

Rise of Flight is a great product, and choosing it or FC is not an either-or proposition, unless you just can't afford FC.

 

Get both, try them yourself.

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RoF has a decade's worth of content, single player careers and campaigns - and while I love that FC is being made, and hope it will one day live up to its predecessor - there's very little in it right now to truly recommend it over the older game. The planeset is condensed, the FM's and models are basically identical, and there's no mission or SP content for it whatsoever. Additionally, though this is entirely subjectively my own opinion - I think FC is even a step down in some areas of graphics, clouds and damage modelling. The biggest draw of FC is populated servers and VR support. The latter alone was enough to warrant the purchase for me, but if I could own only one I'd take RoF any day. Value for Cost is clearly higher.

 

That said, why not both?

Edited by Luftschiff
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I still own RoF but I uninstalled it and haven't put it back. I do like the variety of planes in RoF, but I'm hooked on BOX eye candy.

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If you have Rise of Flight, for now I’d say stick with it. In the devs attempt to evolve Rise of Flight they have somewhat de-evolved it. As on RoF one can fly over a large Western, Eastern and Channel map, while on FC we’re limited to just a 100x100km map, 10 planes that are already in RoF, so no new planes in FC1. Not to mention the fact that on Steam FC1 costs $85 CDN ($100 CDN regular). So $85 for Rise of Flight with VR, a slight improvement of graphics, and has no Career mode and no scripted campaigns, no new planes. For $85 CDN one can probably buy several RoF DLCs that cost $17-28, perhaps all of the FC1 planes plus one or two more DLCs. During a sale one can buy almost all the RoF DLCs for $85. Also, for the people who supported RoF all they got was just a $15 CDN discount.

 

The devs stated that FC1 was just the baby step; by that we thought it would just be RoF with just 10 planes and small map and no Pilot Career, but no. Instead, they payed $85 for a smaller amount of content compared to RoF and got a game that was somewhat flawed. Also, whether a FC2 will happen soon is still unclear as Bodenplatte and FC1 were released at the same time and we’ve only heard about BON, no FC2.

 

IMO, the devs weren’t quite ready to start development of Flying Circus, and I think they should wait until scripted campaigns, bug fixes, and a Pilot Career (by them) is added. That will be when they’re ready to start FC2.

 

I’d recommend sticking with Rise of Flight and perhaps trying out these. I tried them and there great https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/45387-updatedfixed-links-panthers-favorite-mods/

 

Salute

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People here have made great single mission packs for FC too (I use those most of my FC time) !

You can also use SYN_Vander's incredible Easy Mission Generator to create as much FC missions as you want, the way YOU want in no time !

IMHO ... Don't skip FC.

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I still love RoF due to the one plane that FC doesn’t have which is particularly cool when attempting to land...

 

”...engine putter, putter...blip...blip...engine putter, putter, putter...blip...putter...blip...”

 

😁

 

Fokker III

Edited by BornToBattle
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3 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Don't you ever read the Dev diaries?

I dont read every of them, and usually stop reading at "now we gonna talk about FC" point, so I admit its my fault there.

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It's all very well saying FC isn't great for SP, but the reality in addition to that, is the MP scene is underwhelming and limited to one experience (if you want to fly with others).

Euro daytime there are consistently more in RoF MP than here, and RoF is still attracting more noobs (I know it's free !).

Edited by Zooropa_Fly
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46 minutes ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

How I miss the seaplanes in ROF

and the HO and Gotha

 

The seaplanes of RoF have been one of the most impressive highlights on a PC sim for me. Landing on the moving waves was great fun.

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Pat got a great mission generator making SP interesting. 
Personally VR is just great combined with FC so ROF became very obsolete

 

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13 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

It's all very well saying FC isn't great for SP, but the reality in addition to that, is the MP scene is underwhelming and limited to one experience (if you want to fly with others).

Euro daytime there are consistently more in RoF MP than here, and RoF is still attracting more noobs (I know it's free !).

 

And ROF is 2 times flawed and left on its behind.
The intention on that is while the biggest elephant around never even mentioned ... hush;

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15 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Euro daytime there are consistently more in RoF MP than here, and RoF is still attracting more noobs (I know it's free !).

 

Not really. J5 Flugpark is [was] getting a consistent 20 players every afternoon after the Arras release, sometimes more, plus the 50+ players during Sundays. NFF would max at 12/15 players in special days*, Wargrounds was just getting north of 20 players (sometimes a bit more) at the Thursday events, and even Cuban wasn't getting what we get on Sundays now. If the devs give us some deserved care, in a year or so we could be having 50+ players every afternoon and two full servers during weekends.

 

The WWI crowd is resilient. With all the bugs and mishaps of the FC module, ROF is on the read mirror now for multiplayer. I can only go back to fly the Nieuports, that's all. 

 

Not to mention damage model, pilot physiology and VR.

Edited by SeaW0lf
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I find some comments by seasoned RoF flyers a bit puzzling.

It seems like many have forgotten RoF in the beginning, or maybe they never experienced it.

RoF started small and buggy. 777 Studios got involved and RoF became the best WWI sim, ever. IMO anyway. This would not have been possible without the support of the fans who bought the planes, maps and campaigns. Software development cost money and if people stop buying, development stops.

Flying Circus is the future. It’s basically RoF in a future proof engine, with all the bells and whistles of the new IL-2 Great Battle series.

And while the devs can use a lot of the research and development that went into RoF, resources are still needed to upgrade everything to the new engine. A month per aircraft, I believe Jason said.

FC is better than RoF in all aspects but content.
Flight modelling is better. Damage modelling is better. Graphics is better. Sound too. Now we have VR support and let me tell you, FC is absolutely fantastic, in VR! This is what VR was made for. 

If we, the fans of WWI flightsims, continue to support the development of FC the content will follow. If we don’t support it, there won’t be any content. No developer in the world would go out on a limb like this, for a niche product like a WWI flightsim.

I you you think you can sit on the fence and wait until FC reaches the content level of RoF, you are fooling yourself. If you want this to happen, you need to support this effort.

It’s not like there’s two or three other WWI flightsim devs out there, is it..?

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I think that's preaching to the converted a little. Pretty much all of us commenting regularly here have been supporting this.

 

The FC MP scene hasn't yet reached the numbers at which RoF MP was declared dead and buried by many.

At this point I'm not sure where the numbers are going to come from ?

Yes J5 are getting half decent numbers from time to time, and any events will pull in a few. But if it's only one server with only a small dedicated crowd, that makes me think this hasn't sold enough for there to be any significant additions. I hope I'm wrong, I've invested time and money into this, but that's me trying to be realistic.

 

I've had a few RoF'ers look in on my server. They still go back to RoF.

And I'm telling them how much better fighting the bots etc. is in FC, I'd be loathed to go back to fighting RoF bots, but it's something I'm considering just because there might be half a dozen human pilots on, while FC is empty.. lost amongst all those ww2 servers.

 

There's a few things that have helped diminish ww1 sim pilot numbers, all and more been talked about often enough.

Many have now settled into ww2 and other things. I don't think many are coming back to ww1.

And lots of the old RoF'ers have aged / moved on / passed on etc..

 

The glory days of RoF (which I just missed myself), I don't think are coming back under any name. Time has changed things again, as it always does.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Yes J5 are getting half decent numbers from time to time, and any events will pull in a few.

 

Perhaps you are not there to witness. We have around 20 players every afternoon, 50+ players on the Sunday event. That's not a few by any means.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I only saw these numbers in ROF back in 2015 when multiplayer was already hurting, which was highlighted by the closing of Aces Falling in 2016. When I came back in 2017, a mission with 12 players at NFF was considered a ‘great showing’. 

 

The bugs and inconsistence takes a toll on FC, but everyone is doing their best. If the genre will survive? Will see. 
 

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52 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

I think that's preaching to the converted a little

 


Perhaps in here. 
But I see such comments on facebook, youtube and other forums.

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I can't believe I'm saying this as I was a huge skeptic only a week ago, but nevertheless: 

 

VR (I bought a Samsung Odyssey+ on Black Friday)

 

Impossible for me to go back now that I've sorted out my framerate issues.

 

 

It's still not ready for mainstream yet, unless you consider my i7 7700K and GTX 1080 a sufficiently midrange computer, which is barely enough for VR flightsimming. Especially for multiplayer where spotting planes at a distance matters, it's just no good. VR-only games run fine, though, and I've already convinced my wife that we need a Rift S for the living room. My wife, of all people, who pretty much despises all computer games as a rule.

 

 

 

I thought the change was going to be like going from hat switch to TrackIR, but it's more like going from this:

 

sopwith-4.gif

 

 

To this:

 

94636-Red_Baron_(1990)(Dynamix)-1.jpg

 

 

And just like the example above, it is terrible for your situational awareness and kills your ability to check six. But do you really want to go back to 2D?

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Maybe in the next generation or two of headsets. I would also have to order prescription lenses.

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See that why I'm not doing it. I know I'll never be able to go back. That's what happened when I experienced my first wide screen monitor lol.

Edited by US213_Talbot
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6 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

Maybe in the next generation or two of headsets. I would also have to order prescription lenses.

 

Just now, US213_Talbot said:

See that why I'm not doing it. I know you'll never be able to go back. That's what happened when I experienced my first wide screen monitor lol.


I love you both (100% homo), but it’s not for you, guys. Not yet. You both exemplify what’s best about multiplayer in this sim, and while multiplayer VR is certainly possible, it would frustrate you even more than with a clear 2D display and TIR today.

 

However the day that you feel like you’ve had enough of the drama, get it, and then you’ll probably hate me for not pushing it more.

 

I know that it sounds crazy, but in 2D you need to trick your brain into thinking the screen in front of you is real. In VR you need to constantly remind yourself that it’s not real. Yesterday I flew half an hour around my airfield and I had to lie down afterwards.

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The only disadvantage I feel I have after the last 2 years of flying VR only, is that I cant check six like you can in TIR, which I now feel is more like cheating. The immersion alone is worth the price of admission. I can spot aircraft at the same distance my TIR brethren can, and with the Rift S the clarity is there. You are all missing out if your not flying VR, and you should feel bad about it.

Edited by US213_Hall
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1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

It's still not ready for mainstream yet, unless you consider my i7 7700K and GTX 1080 a sufficiently midrange computer, which is barely enough for VR flightsimming. 

But you say it works without being a flickerfest on these specs?

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1 hour ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

, it is terrible for your situational awareness and kills your ability to check six


I think VR really enhances SA. But checking six is much harder.

I think both are due to VR being more like real life.

But sure, VR isn’t perfect. I’d like a wider field of view, for one thing. Resolution on my Rift S is good enough. Don’t need that many extra pixels for it to be perfect.

 

VR is what made me leave RoF behind. I loved that sim, but VR ruined 2D for me. The tracking of TrackIR felt awful compared to the Rift CV1 and my 34” ultra wide screen felt like peeping through a keyhole, compared to sitting in the virtual cockpit...

I’m so glad they decided to do FC and I really hope there will be more volumes of it.

 

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What is holding me from VR is having my head on a swivel stick checking my 6 and what that‘ll do to my neck vertebra on the long run ...
It having profiling like Trackir would change that.
Edited by West

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17 minutes ago, West said:

and what that‘ll do to my neck vertebra on the long run


Do you have a condition that prevents natural movement of the neck?
If so, I totally understand your reluctance. If not, it’s not a big problem. Although it will comdition your neck muscles. Better take it easy at first.

 

17 minutes ago, West said:

profiling like Trackir would change that


I would imagine that it would mess with your equilibrium as your whole view shifts as you turn your head in VR. Imagine turning your head 90° and the world turned 180°. That would take some getting used to...

I have seen VR users with neck conditions use an office chair. This makes it easy to check six as you can turn your seat a little. They even say it’s possible to keep the feet on the pedals as you don’t have to turn the seat that much.

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4 hours ago, T_oll said:

I find some comments by seasoned RoF flyers a bit puzzling.

It seems like many have forgotten RoF in the beginning, or maybe they never experienced it.

RoF started small and buggy. 777 Studios got involved and RoF became the best WWI sim, ever. IMO anyway. This would not have been possible without the support of the fans who bought the planes, maps and campaigns. Software development cost money and if people stop buying, development stops.

Flying Circus is the future. It’s basically RoF in a future proof engine, with all the bells and whistles of the new IL-2 Great Battle series.

And while the devs can use a lot of the research and development that went into RoF, resources are still needed to upgrade everything to the new engine. A month per aircraft, I believe Jason said.

FC is better than RoF in all aspects but content.
Flight modelling is better. Damage modelling is better. Graphics is better. Sound too. Now we have VR support and let me tell you, FC is absolutely fantastic, in VR! This is what VR was made for. 

If we, the fans of WWI flightsims, continue to support the development of FC the content will follow. If we don’t support it, there won’t be any content. No developer in the world would go out on a limb like this, for a niche product like a WWI flightsim.

I you you think you can sit on the fence and wait until FC reaches the content level of RoF, you are fooling yourself. If you want this to happen, you need to support this effort.

It’s not like there’s two or three other WWI flightsim devs out there, is it..?

 

Great post:salute:.

 

RoF is a great game but further development ended several years ago and 777Studios or 1CGS won't be handing over the code of their bespoke game engine to that army of  (non-existent) "talented modders" that some believe are out there.

 

Also, RoF - like IL2 1946 and presumably WoFF - is going to be killed stone dead in the not too distant future when Microsoft's next operating system does away with 32bit support.

 

RoF never really generated enough income to give the dev's much more than a hand to mouth existence.  The success of the Great Battles series means RoF has a realistic chance to live on and enjoy further development in the more modern version of the game engine with all the benefits that brings.

However,  that chance only exists if people buy the product.  If anyone wants to sit it out - fine, just don't expect further product.

 

1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

But you say it works without being a flickerfest on these specs?

 

In my squad we are approaching fifty per cent VR ownership now.  Myself and a couple of others are still running the Rift CV 1 whilst everyone else is using the S.  Several are using 1070's, whilst I use a 2070 paired with a now ancient i7 3930 running at 4Ghz.

 

None of us have performance problems.  Several of the scoreboard leaders over on the serious WW2 servers are running in VR too.  Don't let the idea that you will not be competitive in MP get in the way of going VR.   In my opinion Flying Circus offers the best VR experience in flight sims available at the present time.

 

 

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21 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

Pat got a great mission generator making SP interesting. 
Personally VR is just great combined with FC so ROF became very obsolete

 


Lol...how true, unfortunately. VR tends to really spoil a person. The only time I go into Great Battles now in 2D with the 4K graphics is to take screen shots for my desktop - and I was a diehard 2D 4K fan. Can’t imagine what’s in store with better FOV and improved resolution for the future!
 

Flying those WW1 crates in VR  you really get a feel for how tiny they were - but what great fun. I’m only hoping FC V2 comes out and then it isn’t the end of the series as FC has really picked up the ball and ran with it where RoF stopped. As stated before though, sales will determine its faltering fate - or further rise to a glory in reliving that flying era. I’m hoping for the latter. 
 

Don’t get me wrong - I’m ALL IN when it comes to flying WW2 iron, it’s just that WW1 aircraft and WW2 aircraft is like comparing apples to oranges. I think they each deserve a place on my hard drive as each is so totally unique in its own right.

Edited by BornToBattle
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3 minutes ago, BornToBattle said:

Lol...how true, unfortunately. VR tends to really spoil a person. The only time I go into Great Battles now in 2D with the 4K


I was slso a die hard 2D enthusiast. Mostly because of sids in navigation better graphics. 
I still miss some things I could do with multiple screens. But VR is amazing

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