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ITAF_Airone1989

Graphics setting for spot airplane

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Hi guys,

I know there are billions of treads like this on the forum, but I read all of them and I still have some questions...

So, guess what?!

I have a lot of difficult to spot others aircraft...

It's pretty frustrating fly in a desert sky for more than 1h and then when I look the replay I can see a big party next to me.. 😕

 

I did some try and this is the point:

I can spot something just if he's at maximum 1.5km from me and I'm looking in that direction fully zoomed.

 

I have a:

PC GAMING LITE 5 RGB INTEL i7-9700/16GB/SSD 250/1TB/RTX 2070 SUPER 8GB/WIN10PRO 

 

Graphics set on:

1080 

Ultra

Grass-> normal

Distance-> 4x

Landscape-> blurred 

Shadows and mirrors-> normal

Sharpen, 4k on

Gamma correction: 0.8

 

What else should I do?

I read something about monitor's contrast...

I have to set it darker or lighter?

 

 

Thanks for the help 😊

 

Edited by ITAF_Airone1989

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I Play the game 9 months online, every day.
Buy all airplane and maps.
Then I bought a 43 inch screen to see the planes better. I was very happy

But few mothns ago, the developers  put a new  patch on the game, and spot an airplane , It's very difficult, I get my eyes tired and hurt.

 

I don't play anymore .

 

PD: My recommendation is to buy an 80 inch

 

The people , friends who played the BoX online 3 years.
They are repeatedly complaining in the whatsapp group about how difficult it is to spot  planes.

 

At the end I don't play anymore .

 

 

Edited by [LAS]URU-Panzer
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You can spot British camouflage aircraft easier than German, so flying German makes spotting easier:

 

 

Aircraft LOD values appear different comparing, for example, British camouflage on Mustang, Spitfire and Tempest when compared to the Bf 109 and the FW 190.  This makes the British camouflage shine bright (white) in a different way to the Bf 109 and FW 190 camouflage. 

As a result, the British camouflage stands out highly visible from distance at certain angles from the sun in a way that the German aircraft don't.  German aircraft are much darker and harder to see.   Surely this makes no sense and provides one side with an advantage over the other. 

 

I hope the developers can fix this.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

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1 hour ago, [LAS]URU-Panzer said:

Eu jogo 9 meses online, todos os dias.
Compre todos os aviões e mapas.
Então comprei uma tela de 43 polegadas para ver melhor os aviões. eu estava muito feliz

Mas há algumas horas atrás, os desenvolvedores colocaram um novo patch no jogo e avistaram um avião. É muito difícil, fico com os olhos cansados e magoados.

 

Eu não jogo mais.

 

PD: Minha recomendação é comprar uma de 80 polegadas

 

As pessoas, amigos que jogaram o BoX online por 3 anos.
Eles estão reclamando repetidamente no grupo do whatsapp sobre o quão difícil é localizar aviões.

 

No final  , não jogo mais.

 

 

 

 

I gave up online. I work as an illustrator and I need to keep my eyes very healthy.

 

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11 hours ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

Hi guys,

I know there are billions of treads like this on the forum, but I read all of them and I still have some questions...

So, guess what?!

I have a lot of difficult to spot others aircraft...

It's pretty frustrating fly in a desert sky for more than 1h and then when I look the replay I can see a big party next to me.. 😕

 

I did some try and this is the point:

I can spot something just if he's at maximum 1.5km from me and I'm looking in that direction fully zoomed.

 

I have a:

PC GAMING LITE 5 RGB INTEL i7-9700/16GB/SSD 250/1TB/RTX 2070 SUPER 8GB/WIN10PRO 

 

Graphics set on:

1080 

Ultra

Grass-> normal

Distance-> 4x

Landscape-> blurred 

Shadows and mirrors-> normal

Sharpen, 4k on

Gamma correction: 0.8

 

What else should I do?

I read something about monitor's contrast...

I have to set it darker or lighter?

 

 

Thanks for the help 😊

 

 

Rest you can leve as you have but i would try turn off Sharpen, and set gamma at 0.6 or 0.7 in startup.cfg (do this last so other options dont return it back to 0.8)

With lower gamma it would be better if you set up monitor for more contrast and also brightnes.

and in nvidia control panel you can try set image sharpening in manage 3d... program settings for game.

And youll still lose airplanes when they are over forest close to you or at some mid range distances sometimes they are almost like invisable (but they are not).

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Disable HDR and SSAO. Gamma correction off in Nvidia settings IIRC.

 

I once posted my settings which should still be valid - let me check if I can find them again!

 

EDIT: Here it is, please give it a shot!

PS: I never turn down gamma more than 0.8, a properly calibrated monitor isn't too bright to begin with and increased gamma reduction just makes your cockpit look like a cave and makes evening/ low light spotting nearly impossible.

 

 

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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The simulator is actually quite frustrating, 1 year waiting for the Bodenplatte configure the spoting to leave it more Real supposedly, before although it only looked 10km at least it looked, now you can see from afar, but closely only with a magnifying glass. I hope the simulator will fix the developers soon. A lot of money came out all the DLCs to have to stop using them. 😥😥😥😥

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The most important thing to do before adjusting game settings is to calibrate your monitor. You’ll need test patterned to do this

I have used this for home theater and it works well on the PC if you’ve got a BD drive. 

http://www.videoessentials.com

If you have an Xbox One you could probably plug it in as it also has a good set of test screens

Color calibration is complicated but what we are most interested in, and is the most important really, is setting the Brightness and Contrast levels

You probably need to do that through your graphics card control panel as most monitors I’ve ever used don’t handle this correctly

Brightness sets the black level. Contrast sets the while level. You need to use actual test pattens and not game footage or something. 

Only after doing this could you reliably adjust anything in the game

It seems gamma adjustments are a popular solution but there is no gamma setting screen in IL-2 so it’s not possible to adjust this accurately. The above brightness and contrast are probably more important and can actually be set using patterns. Setting the gamma way out of range is almost certainly the wrong choice here. And again there’s no way to know if this is accurate. 

 

Your display should be able to achieve a 1,000:1 contrast ratio at least and be capable of 16.7 million colors. Anything below that would be substandard. It’s something to consider. A good monitor today can do much better. 

 

As for game settings I prefer Ultra, AA on (only 2x for 2160p, lower res should use 4x) Alternate Vis Off. Everything else Maxed

Turning AA off makes everything on your screen a pixeled mess and I don’t see how that helps spotting or IDing. Also bits of other aircraft can completely vanish or flicker. The landscape will flicker and hide targets. Honestly AA Off makes the game look terrible and doesn’t help. I don’t know why people do this. 

 

Landscape Filter. To me this seems to be anisotropic filtering. I prefer this on Sharp because it’s just higher AF and makes the landscape terrain smoother and less flicker. Again it’s easier to spot against a solid background than one which flickers. 

 

HDR. High Dynamic Range. Set On. The definition speaks for itself, I prefer more dynamic range in order to see contacts. 

Edited by SharpeXB
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17 hours ago, [LAS]Wochi said:

The simulator is actually quite frustrating, 1 year waiting for the Bodenplatte configure the spoting to leave it more Real supposedly, before although it only looked 10km at least it looked, now you can see from afar, but closely only with a magnifying glass. I hope the simulator will fix the developers soon. A lot of money came out all the DLCs to have to stop using them. 😥😥😥😥

I agree with you and all the other poster on the visibilityissues.

I have spent 680 dollars since aug  of 2014  on this sim and I cant ever remember anytime in my life where I have kept spending money on a product that is so frustrating.

There's comes a point where you have to decide if it's worth it to keep spending money or if it's time to get off the pot!

I truly like many aspects of the sim, but the visibility issue really takes away a lot of the fun and ability to work as a team with your friends.

 

I do wish the developers would realize this really is there BIGGEST draw back in there product and acknowledge  the 100 s of treads in all the forums about visibility and contact spotting.

There inability or reluctance to fix this will eventually drive people off like Furias and myself.

 

(this last note is for the real life comments that I'm sure will come after this post)

This isn't real life !

It's a sim played on a computer with the limitation of 2d screens and hardware, it is no where like spotting contacts in the real world environment. 

 

Panp

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It’s important to realize that seeing other aircraft in combat is not an easy task. It’s possible that many people just think this should be too easy. 
Many games have hidden or difficult to see enemies. Why should flight sims be different?

IMO the practice of having icons in these games (flight sims are the only genre that puts these on your opponents) has somehow convinced people that enemy aircraft are supported to be easy to see. 
1CGS does have pilots on staff who think this sim does a realistic job at visibility. 
I think many player’s  trouble starts with their hardware or setting rather than the game. 

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Your opinion is respectable, but not sustainable, if you come from other simulators such as Il2 Cliff de Dover or Rise of Flight, spoting always takes practice, it is not so impossible. And I can tell you that those of us who think in this thread are not noobs, so as not to distinguish what is right and what is wrong. If you want to turn a deaf ear and advocate that the sim be all right I respect it. But in my humble opinion other sims of the same company are better achieved in this regard.

This recording is interesting to see only at the beginning, I have the resolution in 1680x1050, to see contacts a little larger, and they are still too small, and according to the zoom you use the brightness of the plane disappears.😥

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S!

 

 And it does not help spotting that at in some cases these "scratches" on the canopy and windshield glimmer exactly the same way as a contact does. Look at DCS and see how canopy glass should be done, much more like what I have seen in real planes. I have tried settings mentioned above and have calibrated, adjusted and whatnot, but spotting is an eye straining  chore in this game. It does not need to be like seeing them from across the map, but not like it is now when planes really disappear at certain ranges and can easily be seen at other outside this. In an ideal world the game should have a spotting that is consistent and adds to playability. Even without resorting to using a zoom. Hopefully the "best engine in the industry" will improve in this spotting matter.

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Not to hard  things that could help with spotting:

-sky dome without color banding

-sky done without posterization

Two above was made perfect in ROF!

-canopy glass more realistic and better scratch effect - especially with sharpen enabled

Hard to do

- planes fragments disappearing in front of clouds

- constant planes contrast ,color with further load drawing

- planes draw further than 10km appears as white/grey mat color despite they are darker with camo etc , I never saw realistic sun reflection form distant object

 

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The spotting in this game is one of the worst aspects of it. As it it was tuned for blindness rather than realism. You can find comments from real life pilots in this thread:

 

 

FYI devs are looking for feedback how to improve it on the RU forums:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12833-видимость-контактов-проблемы-идеи-предложения/

 

For the time being, my tips would be to lose AntiAliasing and SSAO, force gamma to low values like 0.6 (by modifying one of the files, outside of the game).

 

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
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4 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

And it does not help spotting that at in some cases these "scratches" on the canopy and windshield glimmer exactly the same way as a contact does. Look at DCS and see how canopy glass should be done, much more like what I have seen in real planes.

 

Try turning off SSAO, helps a lot with canopy blur. You get slightly worse cockpit shadows, but much more clear view out.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R

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7 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

force gamma to low values like 0.6 (by modifying one of the files, outside of the game).

If you find it necessary to set gamma this far out of range, there is probably something wrong with your system overall. I would fix that fist before adjusting in game. There’s no way that any game should need you to adjust the value that far out of range. Especially since there is no setting screen in IL-2 for you to calibrate this with. 

Start with getting the brightness and contrast of the whole system and monitor correct and then look at other games with a gamma screen. If you don’t need to change those, likely IL-2 doesn’t need that much adjustment. Certainly not in the cfg file. This isn’t good advice IMO

Monitors can have presets like “Cinema” or “Game” etc which aren’t necessarily correct. Again it requires test patterns and not gameplay to be able to set this if you want it really correct. 

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On 12/6/2019 at 2:20 AM, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

Hi guys,

I know there are billions of treads like this on the forum, but I read all of them and I still have some questions...

So, guess what?!

I have a lot of difficult to spot others aircraft...

It's pretty frustrating fly in a desert sky for more than 1h and then when I look the replay I can see a big party next to me.. 😕

 

I did some try and this is the point:

I can spot something just if he's at maximum 1.5km from me and I'm looking in that direction fully zoomed.

 

I have a:

PC GAMING LITE 5 RGB INTEL i7-9700/16GB/SSD 250/1TB/RTX 2070 SUPER 8GB/WIN10PRO 

 

Graphics set on:

1080 

Ultra

Grass-> normal

Distance-> 4x

Landscape-> blurred 

Shadows and mirrors-> normal

Sharpen, 4k on

Gamma correction: 0.8

 

What else should I do?

I read something about monitor's contrast...

I have to set it darker or lighter?

 

 

Thanks for the help 😊

 

Your settings are very close to mine. The only thing different I can recommend is to calibrate your monitor.

I calibrated my monitor for brightness, gamma, color, etc. a few months after I started playing  just using the Windows built-in display calibration. I was surprised how much adjustment the monitor needed for all the settings to look right. My monitor was a pretty cheap model so that may have influenced that. It made a small difference in game for spotting, but more of a difference than most of the in-game setting tweaks. The calibration for gamma involved a pretty big change in the monitor settings to match up with the gamma image Windows provided. I think the need to reduce the gamma past the in-game limits may come from uncalibrated monitors. Anything below 0.8 looks extremely dark to me.  

The important bit is not to just dial up or down the contrast or brightness randomly, calibrate it against something at least. you may be surprised how out of whack the monitor might be.

I have tried with sharpen off and while I think it does help slightly with spotting I personally found it made it somewhat more difficult to ID aircraft. It was not a game changer so I have since  gone back to flying with Sharpen on. Definitely try it out to see if it improves things for you.

And there are a number of visibility bugs that are still being worked out, like disappearing reflections when zooming or getting closer (same thing as far as the visibility modeling is concerned) that will hopefully be fixed. That stuff can't be countered by any setting available, so there's little point in spending hours tweaking settings for marginal returns, when your real problem might be some of those bugs.

As far as impact on spotting is concerned, from least impact to most impact IMO:
1. Landscape filter blurred - worth it, just because it doesn't seem to have a downside for me, but not a world changer
2. Sharpen off - not worth it to me because of ID problems and just general fuzziness in the game. Still, worth a try I think.
3. In-game gamma adjustment - worth it to an extent, but too low is not great either.
4. Monitor Calibration
5. Practice
6. Developer changes to graphics and visibility.

TL;DR - the law of diminishing returns always applies so don't spend hours upon hours tweaking; calibrate your monitor, test out your settings, and then just practice and deal with changes from the devs as they come.

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The developer just need to complete the improvements of visual spotting mechanics they started. This alternate options are not a way to go. They need to implement and complete the proper visibility system all the way.  IMHO It is better to allow a bit overly easy spotting than overly hard. This is a entertainment product after all, not a life and death military training simulation.

Edited by LLv44_Damixu
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I honestly don't have too much of a problem with it the way it is. 2D makes it always a little tricky to represent DOF but it is much better than it was before. The only thing that i find difficult is how aircraft flying over forests far above it disappear like they are flying through it. 

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This is about the most important adjustment. Set using “Brightness” (in your graphics card since many PC monitors don’t handle this right) Its the “pluge” pattern in the lower right corner

It comprises three small vertical bars, a rightmost one with intensity 4% above black level (11.5 IRE), a middle one with intensity exactly equal to black (7.5 IRE), and a leftmost one with intensity 4% below black (super-black or "blacker than black", 3.5 IRE).

When a monitor is properly adjusted, the rightmost pluge bar should be just barely visible, while the left two should appear indistinguishable from each other and completely black.

There are better versions of this without so many other colors adjacent to the black

Of course you can’t use these examples, you need real ones that aren’t screenshots. Windows has this pattern I believe. 

73D73087-4868-457C-AA63-CB53A291B0BE.png

480A1B94-0388-43A0-BE6F-81BA9B59B443.jpeg

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And this is about the most pointless adjustment for a game with flawed visibility system(s). Like fixing a punctured tyre on a car with a broken engine. No it will not make it go any faster.

 

The main point of suggesting someone to lower the in-game gamma to lower values than 0.8 is not to improve the image quality, rather than to force higher contrast that slightly improves contact spotting. Many people do it by forcing lower values in their .cfg file, then balancing it out again with Reshade filters.

 

Simple fact large number of people are doing it means two things:

  • they have the advantage over those that do not
  • in-game visibility is flawed, a working system doesn't need modifications

 

Last but least, I have calibrated my monitor with a device wile turning off all gimick modes such as "gaming" and "cinema" - then validated results with an image calibrating software while using the said device. TL;DR: resulting in light years ahead calibration than one can do with their naked eye.

 

Lowering gamma will (again) make the image look darker and IMHO ugly, but will give slightly better contrast for spotting.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
large fonts FTW :D
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32 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

 

Simple fact large number of people are doing it means two things:

  • they have the advantage over those that do not

 

 

You're not wrong about the gamma thing, but in general just because large numbers of people do something for an advantage doesn't mean it actually conveys an advantage, merely that they believe it does. Whether that belief is based on fact at all is separate from the number of people who hold it.

 

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On 12/7/2019 at 12:05 PM, SharpeXB said:

It’s important to realize that seeing other aircraft in combat is not an easy task. It’s possible that many people just think this should be too easy. 
Many games have hidden or difficult to see enemies. Why should flight sims be different?

IMO the practice of having icons in these games (flight sims are the only genre that puts these on your opponents) has somehow convinced people that enemy aircraft are supported to be easy to see. 
1CGS does have pilots on staff who think this sim does a realistic job at visibility. 
I think many player’s  trouble starts with their hardware or setting rather than the game. 

Agree.

In multi player its fair cause spotting is on each pilot. no one has that great of an advantage. You must learn where to look from clues that you see, or read or hear from your team.

When fighting AI , I leave object markers ON  so I have the same advantage as them.  Spotting isnt easy.

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@RedKestrel From what I've been told it conveys a small advantage. To me, not worthy of lowering in-game visuals and messing about with Reshade.

 

Where there is smoke, there is a fire. Where people do all sorts of things to try to improve spotting - means something is off.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R

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For me and I'm sure many others, the graphic settings and monitor calibration are irrelevant factors as they are NOT what changed. It's only since the latest hotfix adjustment to spotting that I suddenly have more issues spotting things. I'm talking things like maintaining tally on a bandit or even just staying visual with a wingman barely a kilometer away.

Assuming high environmental visibility, which is what we have in the sim, we should be seeing fighter sized targets easily to 5nm (9km), but out to a max of around 7nm (13km). When I was learning to fly and while flight instructing I would not only see small general aviation airplanes at 5nm routinely,  but regain the tally quickly after looking away. In the airliner I fly now I have no problems seeing planes like the CRJ, E175, B737, A320, etc at rear aspect etc out to 15-17nm (27-37km). A little further if they're turning and showing greater planform. C17, A380, etc can be seen even further still. Yes, of course they're bigger but I'm seeing them much further and wouldn't expect to see fighters out that far personally.

 

I'd honestly take the alternate visibility over what is currently used on most MP servers even with it's flaws right now. Just because the math is right doesn't mean it's being displayed, or even can be displayed, correctly on a monitor as we would see in RL so there needs to be a compromise somehow. As I've joked about, if I can't see anything I may as well go fly DCS. I'll have bad spotting there too but at least I'll have radar LOL

 

But hey... this is all anecdotal evidence so whatever 😊

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Since I changed my game and monitor resolutions to 1280 x 720, I have no problem spotting fighters at least 8 km away. The reduced resolution is not that bad and doesn't bother me at all, compared to constantly getting blasted by unseen bandits.

 

I run my gamma at 0.8 but it may work just as well at the default setting. 

 

This post has a couple of missions to test your spotting.

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1 hour ago, SYN_Requiem said:

For me and I'm sure many others, the graphic settings and monitor calibration are irrelevant factors as they are NOT what changed. It's only since the latest hotfix adjustment to spotting that I suddenly have more issues spotting things. I'm talking things like maintaining tally on a bandit or even just staying visual with a wingman barely a kilometer away.

Assuming high environmental visibility, which is what we have in the sim, we should be seeing fighter sized targets easily to 5nm (9km), but out to a max of around 7nm (13km). When I was learning to fly and while flight instructing I would not only see small general aviation airplanes at 5nm routinely,  but regain the tally quickly after looking away. In the airliner I fly now I have no problems seeing planes like the CRJ, E175, B737, A320, etc at rear aspect etc out to 15-17nm (27-37km). A little further if they're turning and showing greater planform. C17, A380, etc can be seen even further still. Yes, of course they're bigger but I'm seeing them much further and wouldn't expect to see fighters out that far personally.

 

I'd honestly take the alternate visibility over what is currently used on most MP servers even with it's flaws right now. Just because the math is right doesn't mean it's being displayed, or even can be displayed, correctly on a monitor as we would see in RL so there needs to be a compromise somehow. As I've joked about, if I can't see anything I may as well go fly DCS. I'll have bad spotting there too but at least I'll have radar LOL

 

But hey... this is all anecdotal evidence so whatever 😊

  + 1 there Requiem 

I never had any issue spotting any small fixed wing or rotorwing at 5 Nm in a MD 500 D when doing reforestation work.

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3 hours ago, SYN_Requiem said:

 

I'd honestly take the alternate visibility over what is currently used on most MP servers even with it's flaws right now. Just because the math is right doesn't mean it's being displayed, or even can be displayed, correctly on a monitor as we would see in RL so there needs to be a compromise somehow. As I've joked about, if I can't see anything I may as well go fly DCS. I'll have bad spotting there too but at least I'll have radar LOL

 

But hey... this is all anecdotal evidence so whatever 😊

By latest hot fix do you mean the actual most recent patch ( I haven’t played that one much yet) or the one that came out after alt vis was first unveiled? My impression at the time was that alt vis and normal vis were pretty well identical out to about 5 km, when the scaling and exaggerated brightness took over.

 

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3 hours ago, JimTM said:

Since I changed my game and monitor resolutions to 1280 x 720, I have no problem spotting fighters at least 8 km away.

Combat flight sims are going to die as a genre if this is what it takes to be competitive (it doesn’t). Nobody wants to look at something this ugly 🤮

The competition out there is going to look gorgeous in 4K HDR and lure people away just to look at the scenery. Whatever they do to help Visibility shouldn’t encourage prehistoric graphics or this game will tank 😶

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50 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Combat flight sims are going to die as a genre if this is what it takes to be competitive (it doesn’t). Nobody wants to look at something this ugly 🤮

The competition out there is going to look gorgeous in 4K HDR and lure people away just to look at the scenery. Whatever they do to help Visibility shouldn’t encourage prehistoric graphics or this game will tank 😶

 

That's right, and that's why we need an improvement over the current system. Glad to see that the dev's are asking for ideas on the russian forum. (Would be nice though if there would be some international version too)

Edited by 216th_Jordan

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Combat flight sims are going to die as a genre if this is what it takes to be competitive (it doesn’t). Nobody wants to look at something this ugly 🤮

The competition out there is going to look gorgeous in 4K HDR and lure people away just to look at the scenery. Whatever they do to help Visibility shouldn’t encourage prehistoric graphics or this game will tank 😶

 

I agree, but for me this is a good solution until the devs find a way to solve the spotting issue. In this way, I'm able to fully enjoy the other aspects of the game.  :salute:

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10 hours ago, SYN_Requiem said:

For me and I'm sure many others, the graphic settings and monitor calibration are irrelevant factors as they are NOT what changed. It's only since the latest hotfix adjustment to spotting that I suddenly have more issues spotting things. I'm talking things like maintaining tally on a bandit or even just staying visual with a wingman barely a kilometer away.

Assuming high environmental visibility, which is what we have in the sim, we should be seeing fighter sized targets easily to 5nm (9km), but out to a max of around 7nm (13km). When I was learning to fly and while flight instructing I would not only see small general aviation airplanes at 5nm routinely,  but regain the tally quickly after looking away. In the airliner I fly now I have no problems seeing planes like the CRJ, E175, B737, A320, etc at rear aspect etc out to 15-17nm (27-37km). A little further if they're turning and showing greater planform. C17, A380, etc can be seen even further still. Yes, of course they're bigger but I'm seeing them much further and wouldn't expect to see fighters out that far personally.

 

I'd honestly take the alternate visibility over what is currently used on most MP servers even with it's flaws right now. Just because the math is right doesn't mean it's being displayed, or even can be displayed, correctly on a monitor as we would see in RL so there needs to be a compromise somehow. As I've joked about, if I can't see anything I may as well go fly DCS. I'll have bad spotting there too but at least I'll have radar LOL

 

+1000

 

For me it is requiring targets after spotting them (tally) that is the most difficult part in this sim. Best example being right after TO and trying to spot a plane (squadron buddy) that took of seconds behind me. On almost every occasion he is as good as invisible, this is how well the contact either doesn't render or blends into the ground until he gets very very close.

 

I like the fact you are another pilot with real life comparison how much harder it is in-game to spot planes around you. With all respect to AnPetrovich, he has clearly overdone the limitations on spotting in this simulator (not sure if he also had a thing to say in DCS's spotting, but it is safe to assume he might have had). The system should be tuned for realism, not blindness.

 

And I share your view on the ATL spotting. As bad as it is, at least the contacts there don't disappear when on wide FOV. I fully agree that a compromise is sorely needed since the math just isn't cutting it.

 

5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Combat flight sims are going to die as a genre if this is what it takes to be competitive (it doesn’t). Nobody wants to look at something this ugly 🤮

The competition out there is going to look gorgeous in 4K HDR and lure people away just to look at the scenery. Whatever they do to help Visibility shouldn’t encourage prehistoric graphics or this game will tank 😶

 

I know this is a shock to you, but graphics aren't everything. Content is. Most of us are here are not yearning for 4K HDR latest tech visual gimmicks.

 

You can be vocal against "prehistoric" solutions to spotting all you want, while advocating current solutions that don't work. In the end it is and will be money that talks - as current solution is drawing away more and more pilots from enjoying this game. Just take a look how many threads with this subject have been created as of recently.

 

 

Edited by [DBS]TH0R

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7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Combat flight sims are going to die as a genre if this is what it takes to be competitive (it doesn’t). Nobody wants to look at something this ugly 🤮

The competition out there is going to look gorgeous in 4K HDR and lure people away just to look at the scenery. Whatever they do to help Visibility shouldn’t encourage prehistoric graphics or this game will tank 😶

 

Let's take a calm look on all this and have things put in perspective:

The community of IL2 players is made of :

 

1) people playing with displays on low res screens then HD and up to the top full 4K.

 

2) Monitor sizes that go from 10" to 43" (and maybe more).

 

3) Platforms from laptops to monster rigs, with a large variety of video cards. (by the way it seems Nvidia just has released a software/firmware solution to have two 2080Ti working in a combined way which was not supported originally).

 

4) We have players that have all a natural vision system that is different in multiple ways: visual acuity, glasses, lenses, color perception which makes perception of color on color very different.

 

5) And finally those who play only IL2 (this is me) and have built optimal systems to get the best out of IL2, and  others who play with IL2 either occasionally or besides a large bunch of other games, and are not much interested into spending time to get the best visuals out of it. 

 

 

Now just imagine all the 5 combinations above and see how difficult it may be for Jason and his team to have a unique solution to satisfy all these unknowns. What I do not like much is when Jason says sometimes as a comment on a critic: but I have no problem it works well on my system. On the other hand we all do this. I can also say that I have no problem on my system (which is true) but to reach that point it needed some efforts and adjustments.

 

So with all what we said before the out of the box solution can only be an average solution, and this cannot be a valid argument to criticize Jason and his team.

 

Here are the steps I think one should do in a bottom up approach:

 

(A) To have a properly calibrated the monitor for colors, gamma (btw 2.1) etc.. Set the ICC profile, so that you have a solid base to start with. I can by experience tell you that many monitors can have terrible factory setups. Before buying a monitor do a market study, go on forums, check the specs etc.. It is worth the time spent. Your eyes will be grateful to you.

This calibration procedure (use any serious calibration tool) will also have you use contrast and luminosity, color temps etc. I use the Datacolor Spyder solution since over fifteen years on all my monitors. For your information Windows 10 platform is based considering Monitors with a gamma of 2.2.

 

(B) Then we have the Nvidia driver 3D graphic parameters to test with.

Here again a large bunch of possibilities. I would say that less is better but again up to you to find the optimal solution. And over time the Driver settings evolve and improve.

Beware that you can have conflicting settings between game and driver settings.

 

(C) Finally on top we have the Game Graphic settings. Sometimes when the settings exist both on driver and game then we must check which one to use. Sometimes it is better to use the game implementation than the driver one. Nvidia puts in its drivers specific solution for the most popular games world wide. Unfortunately here IL2 does not seem to be a priority. 

Btw I have no idea what is the gamma slider here and to what it corresponds. I see it as a kind of correction factor for the screen base gamma. Anyway I keep it to 1.

 

(D) The final judge is the players vision systems. Does he like what he sees, and how well he can distinguish objects during the game like spotting airplanes at a distance. 

 

Conclusion I went through all of this and I am extremely satisfied of the new implementation by the devs. This is a personal subjective opinion based on a custom built top end rig with 43" 4K display and a 2080ti. And I can confirm the images are gorgeous and to "my" liking.  I will not mention what are my parameters because as I said it is very subjective and hardware combination dependent.

When I display the Microsoft Flight Sim demo (which has been tweaked to be just as best as it can get) sure one can always do better, but we have to consider all the other things that make IL2 worth it, the reason we love it,  and that we can get nowhere else at least for the time being. 

 

Some final comments

In real life spotting the enemy at a distance was difficult. In WW1 and WW2 vision performance was an essential element. Camouflage, lighting conditions, reflections surfaces like water, ice made things difficult. And it made the difference between a pilot and another. Whoever sees the other first has an advantage. So do not complain much, It has to be difficult to spot at a distance the enemy. The higher resolution and size of your screen the better. What was a problem with IL2 is when a plane just disappeared abruptly at 10km. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

The system should be tuned for realism, not blindness.

 

And I share your view on the ATL spotting. As bad as it is, at least the contacts there don't disappear when on wide FOV. I fully agree that a compromise is sorely needed since the math just isn't cutting it.

Exactly. It must be realized that representing human vision on a reduced flat surface is a math-based cheat. It's just an artificial picture involving serious compromises. We must "counter-cheat" if we want back the level of realism that RL perception provides us with.

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Quote

 

I know this is a shock to you, but graphics aren't everything. Content is. Most of us are here are not yearning for 4K HDR latest tech visual gimmicks.

Graphics aren’t everything but they’re a lot. If nobody cares about that they could still be running 1946

A sure way to kill this genre is to make it look like 20 year old games

Again... you’ve seen what the future competition in flight sims is going to look like. Games should encourage you to run higher settings if you can and not lower. Otherwise why do they put any work into more sophisticated graphics? The future is heading towards higher resolution displays so they’d better get on board with that and not live in the past. I’m sure there were people saying the same thing about 1080p. What is everyone using today? Are people still playing on CRTs?

What about VR? Should the game give an advantage to a CV1 over a Reverb because of the lower resolution? 

And HDR? That would be a godsend for this issue. Everything people are complaint about would be greatly helped by that. In PC monitors HDR is available in all resolutions besides 2160p and not even expensive. It’s almost a standard feature in any new gaming displays. 

Edited by SharpeXB

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11 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

By latest hot fix do you mean the actual most recent patch ( I haven’t played that one much yet) or the one that came out after alt vis was first unveiled? My impression at the time was that alt vis and normal vis were pretty well identical out to about 5 km, when the scaling and exaggerated brightness took over.

 

I meant when the visibility changed again just after the initial patch to create the extra visibility setting after the initial backlash to the flaws in what we know as the alt visibility now. It was an amazing difference to not need to  "zoom in" to maximum so often while performing every single scan of a sky sector or losing sight of someone when they go a few thousand feet above you when they should be clearly silhouetted against the sky (which has always been the case). Just being able to sit in the cockpit and look around without all the zooming, for me, made the Il-2 experience more immersive but unfortunately I could see contacts from MUCH too far away which ruined my depth perception of estimating how far away the targets were. Outside of 5nm I'm fine with fighters looking like a dark grey/black shape that transitions to a very light grey by 7nm so it blends into the background, but for larger airplanes their distance would be further. The problem with this is I don't think our monitors have the pixel density to do this justice with how we see in RL without some form of small scaling. I'd still take that tradeoff though if it's done right compared to what we have at the moment.

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