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FW-190 Help!

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I'm pretty new to dogfighting in general (I usually do close air support in the jug or the il2) and I have wanted to get into dogfighting, I've really liked the feel of the 190 series but stall out constantly, any tips on how to dogfight in the 190 series?

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Stay fast use boost when you need it, try not to turn but pop flaps if you go below 250kph. Between 2000-3000m and above 6000m you have worse performance in A models.  Try to dive on opponents and use your speed to stay safe and reposition after attacks. You turn well over 400kph, below that you should run if you can. You have amazing roll to use in dive attacks and when you are under attack.

Edited by Hajo_Garlic
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The 190's roll rate is one of the best of the war.  It's a bit diminished with the Dora due to wider wingspan, but still not bad.  Be careful not to lose speed.  It can be a bit hard to build up.  The 190 is kind of like the Hulk Hogan of airplanes.  It's a bit slow to get up to speed, but once you get it "fired up" it's a steamroller.  Dogfighting with it can be quite fun, but the best way to fly it - or any capable plane, for that matter - is as an assassin.  Hit and run before they even knew you were onto them.  Usually, if the first attack doesn't take them down, it's still enough to cause them to crawl off and die soon after.  If you get solid hits, don't re-engage.  Instead, reset and make sure no one else is after you.  Chances are, the enemy has only a few minutes left to bail out or go down with his plane.   

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6 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

The 190's roll rate is one of the best of the war.  It's a bit diminished with the Dora due to wider wingspan, but still not bad.  Be careful not to lose speed.  It can be a bit hard to build up.  The 190 is kind of like the Hulk Hogan of airplanes.  It's a bit slow to get up to speed, but once you get it "fired up" it's a steamroller.  Dogfighting with it can be quite fun, but the best way to fly it - or any capable plane, for that matter - is as an assassin.  Hit and run before they even knew you were onto them.  Usually, if the first attack doesn't take them down, it's still enough to cause them to crawl off and die soon after.  If you get solid hits, don't re-engage.  Instead, reset and make sure no one else is after you.  Chances are, the enemy has only a few minutes left to bail out or go down with his plane.   

What is a good alt to hang around? 4k or so?

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As he said, avoid sustained fights while flying Antons between 2-3k and above 6k.

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40 minutes ago, pantasauras said:

What is a good alt to hang around? 4k or so?

 

Like Hajo_Garlic said, between 2-3k is a bad spot for performance.  The automatic supercharger has yet to switch to the next stage and the manifold pressure has a noticeable drop until it does.  Between 4-6k should be fine as long as you can spot the lower enemy.  If you are going to stick to hit and runs from up high be sure to use your extra speed to get back above 3k asap. Try not to climb slower that 250kph though.  There is a very fine balance between climbing too shallow and too steeply.  It will take time, but it"s a bit of a "feel" kind of thing to get the best of it.  With the "bounce-from-high" method, if you blow the attack, you might still have enough speed to climb away at an angle they can't return fire on.  Also, any time you can position yourself so you're coming out of the sun, use it.  It's going to take practice getting used to gunnery when the plane is controlling very stiffly due to the high speed, but once you start getting good shots off, it will be totally worth it.  

 

Or, if you're feeling a bit more risky, you can run like a bat out of hell on the treetops and bounce planes you find at the 0-2k altitude range.  Try to get them when they are climbing, flying level or distracted by a fight - preferably one that's currently a stalemate.  If they're concentrated on turning the tables on your friend and your friend is still kind of far off from getting the kill, no one can cry at you about kill stealing. 😁  If they are diving, they might have more accumulated speed than you can quickly close the distance on. If you do go for it, think about it carefully first. 

If you do go for the "deck bounce" method and start low then climb up to the target, do it as shallow as possible and make sure you have the initial speed to close the distance quickly.  If not, you'll end up just following in a long tail chase that will eventually lead to you being seen, or worse, bagged by another from behind.  If your attack worked, dive to the treetops again and get your lost speed back asap. Don't be impatient and use slight turns that keep your speed up - even if turning 180 degrees takes a long time.  If your attack didn't work with this method, you're going to have to gauge whether or not you can still keep an advantage on the target or if you need to run away pronto. It usually helps to work in pairs or groups with others so they can follow up if you miss the attack or find yourself in trouble.  

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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41 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

It's a bit diminished with the Dora due to wider wingspan, but still not bad.

 

The Dora's wingspan is the same as the Anton's wingspan, 10.5 m.

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1 minute ago, MiloMorai said:

 

The Dora's wingspan is the same as the Anton's wingspan, 10.5 m.

 

Yes.  For some reason, I was thinking of the, pardon me if I get it wrong, Ta-152?

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3 minutes ago, Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Yes.  For some reason, I was thinking of the, pardon me if I get it wrong, Ta-152?

Ta152 had 2 wingspans, the long one and one slightly more than the Anton/Dora.

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1 minute ago, MiloMorai said:

Ta152 had 2 wingspans, the long one and one slightly more than the Anton/Dora.

 

In that case, the wide one. lol

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58 minutes ago, pantasauras said:

What is a good alt to hang around? 4k or so?

Depends on the objective, cloud density, etc. 4K isn’t bad, I tend to like to stay in either the 5k range or around 1.8km sometimes but you will have to find what you are able to spot the enemy, what theatre (ost vs west), and what works for you.  Say it’s east with low clouds ideally. I’d be around that 1.8km area just below the clouds staying 4-6km away from the target, not orbiting for enemy fighters so I could see those low pe2s (like bbq is an xpert in) and il2s.  

 

It’s not not where you really want to be as you are vulnerable and not in an excellent offensive position but the 190 isn’t a slouch on the deck either once you get comfortable. 

Edited by Hajo_Garlic
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2 hours ago, pantasauras said:

I'm pretty new to dogfighting in general (I usually do close air support in the jug or the il2) and I have wanted to get into dogfighting, I've really liked the feel of the 190 series but stall out constantly, any tips on how to dogfight in the 190 series?

 

The stalls are abrupt and nasty.  Fly with smooth inputs - don't jerk the stick.  The 190 is every responsive and does not need to be manhandled.  As others have noted, keep up speed as the 190s high speed handling is excellent.  I like shallow dives followed by half loops to get back into the fight.  You will be slow at the top but you should regain speed quickly enough with either a dive or returning to level flight. 

 

If you find yourself low and under attack your best bet is to just fire up the engine and get out.  If that doesn't work and you have to fight then rolling scissors might be your best bet.

 

The 190 can turn with anybody for a very brief period, provided you have energy.  Use that instantaneous turn to pull lead ... which brings me to one of the 190s many strengths, the guns.  Don't be afraid to put up a wall of lead.  You have lots of guns and lots of ammo.  If your target is under your nose pull the trigger and let him fly through it.

 

If you miss, straighten out and regain speed.  Do not follow the target through the turn.  Get some distance while he is turning.

 

Finally, the 190 is a tough plane ... and did I mention the guns?  Don't be afraid of a head on.

 

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Overall, the 190 is DESIGNED for high speeds in a way the 109 wasn’t.  While the 109 can reach similar speeds in a straight line, the 190 is far more maneuverable in the outer half of the envelope.  Far more capable of pitching and rolling above 300-400 kph.  In this sense, it’s like the Mustang: a “2nd generation” WWII fighter designed around 1500hp+ power and optimized for the resulting high speeds.  Maneuverability at speed is the key to the 190.  Makes it much easier to score hits while maintaining high speeds (“boom”) without needing to anchor.
 
As a 190 pilot, I’m generally Zen and "smooth jazz" in my flying.  Smooth and no sudden movements.  Yet once I enter a dogfight, in the back of my mind I always need to be ready for a sudden violent defensive Split-S.  Can’t get TOO lulled into the graceful ballerina mentality with the 190.  Knowing you have that "card" to play if surprised is key to long-term survival.  
 

The other note is that the A-3 is surprisingly agile when you choose to anchor.  Most of my historical knowledge of the 190 came from the later (and heavier) A-8 model that the Americans were facing in 1944+.  Flying the earliest Fw 190 in the game circa Dec 1942 has been an eye opener.  It has a surprising rate of turn, very competitive for the first 90-180 degrees of turn.  I still wouldn't recommend getting into a sustained turn fight with a Yak-1 (or Yak-1B!), but the A-3 can roar in at high speeds, then anchor and turn surprisingly well to get off a devastating raking shot.  Don't be too afraid to turn-and-burn as long as you keep it to <1 circle. 

Edited by istari6
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Nobody yet mentioned the strongest point of Fw 190: teamplay. No plane in the sim (save perhaps the mighty Tempest) is as deadly as Fw 190 when flown by a couple of well coordinated guys. This is primarily to combination of two characteristics: It's fast like devil and armed like a battleship - therefore it excels in "drag'n'bag" tactics, where a team of players keep these planes fast, and clear the tails of each other instead of their own! Take 1 Fw 190 vs 1 Yak-1 and the 190 will struggle to survive. Take 4 vs 4 and it will be a cat and mouse with Yaks fighting for their life.

 

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13 hours ago, CrazyDuck said:

Nobody yet mentioned the strongest point of Fw 190: teamplay. No plane in the sim (save perhaps the mighty Tempest) is as deadly as Fw 190 when flown by a couple of well coordinated guys. This is primarily to combination of two characteristics: It's fast like devil and armed like a battleship - therefore it excels in "drag'n'bag" tactics, where a team of players keep these planes fast, and clear the tails of each other instead of their own! Take 1 Fw 190 vs 1 Yak-1 and the 190 will struggle to survive. Take 4 vs 4 and it will be a cat and mouse with Yaks fighting for their life.

 

Drag and bag is extremely viable with 190s but when my wingman isn’t too busy being a real pilot it’s preferred to fly different a/c (109/190, la5/yak, stang/lightning) to play to the strengths and weaknesses. Maybe I’m unaware but I only see a couple squads really work that tactic despite how effective it is and the squads that come to mind usually aren’t all in the same ride.

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10 hours ago, Hajo_Garlic said:

Drag and bag is extremely viable with 190s but when my wingman isn’t too busy being a real pilot it’s preferred to fly different a/c (109/190, la5/yak, stang/lightning) to play to the strengths and weaknesses. Maybe I’m unaware but I only see a couple squads really work that tactic despite how effective it is and the squads that come to mind usually aren’t all in the same ride.

 

Yeah, I agree. Especially on dogfight servers it's a rare sight - it's usually some beginners jumping into a Fw 190, expecting to singlehandedly slaughter everything left and right in a gladiator style with the "wurger", but find themselves brutally murdered by hordes of Yaks and Spits instead, leaving them flabbergasted. 

 

However, there are times when a group of some disciplined Fw 190 pilots come online and fly as a team. Just a week or so ago I've witnessed such a group (they were the "56th" guys if I recall correctly) - they were flying 190 A-3s on a late war map vs the latest allied stuff and ruled supreme. Nothing apart from some lucky shots could come close to them - even with the Mustangs it felt like toying with the scorpions. As soon as you got guns on one, his teammate was on your tail! Frustrating to say the least. 

 

Even two 190s flying cooperatively is worlds apart from two 190s flying as lone wulfs. Reminds me of a moment from a Gladiator movie, when a group of gladiators was facing long, long odds:

 

image.png.eba214a2e913dd96c51e35383b4764f9.png

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2 hours ago, CrazyDuck said:

 

Yeah, I agree. Especially on dogfight servers it's a rare sight - it's usually some beginners jumping into a Fw 190, expecting to singlehandedly slaughter everything left and right in a gladiator style with the "wurger", but find themselves brutally murdered by hordes of Yaks and Spits instead, leaving them flabbergasted. 

 

However, there are times when a group of some disciplined Fw 190 pilots come online and fly as a team. Just a week or so ago I've witnessed such a group (they were the "56th" guys if I recall correctly) - they were flying 190 A-3s on a late war map vs the latest allied stuff and ruled supreme. Nothing apart from some lucky shots could come close to them - even with the Mustangs it felt like toying with the scorpions. As soon as you got guns on one, his teammate was on your tail! Frustrating to say the least. 

 

Even two 190s flying cooperatively is worlds apart from two 190s flying as lone wulfs. Reminds me of a moment from a Gladiator movie, when a group of gladiators was facing long, long odds:

 

image.png.eba214a2e913dd96c51e35383b4764f9.png

Your right. Nowotny was always quick to point out he owed his success to to his schwarm, particularly his wingman Schnörrer.

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