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What you think about VR

What you think about VR and Il-2  

131 members have voted

  1. 1. What you think about VR and Il-2

    • Once you go VR you never go back!
    • Nah I prefer my high resolution screen and TIR


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7 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

DCS Persian Golf map is quite fascinating in VR

 

Quite strange to see clouds in Dubai...

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9 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Everybody’s definition of “fabulous” must be.different then.  

 

It is indeed. After several years of VR ownership (DK2, CV1, Od+, Pimax 5K+) it was only when I got a Reverb that DCS (which I first bought when I had a CV1) came alive in VR for me. I was sufficiently taken with combat flight sims I stumped up for IL2 which I also enjoy immensely in VR. Previously I had tried TrackIR but it wasn't for me. I also sim race and find iRacing & DiRT Rally 2 very immersive in VR.

 

For various reasons sim racing worked better for me with the older generation VR headsets. I have also tried the Index and think that is great for combat flight sims too.

 

The tricky bit is that we are all wired differently and VR seems to be a lot more subjective than gaming on monitors.

 

All I can say is I thoroughly enjoy IL2 & DCS in VR using a Reverb and wouldn't be playing them (nor buying content) otherwise.

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9 hours ago, mpdugas said:

VR, yes.  Then I tried VTOL VR.  Never the same thereafter; it spoiled all other flight sims for me.

VTOL VR isn’t exactly a high fidelity complex sim like DCS or even this game. But it is an example of what a flight sim would be like if it was designed from the ground up for VR. It’s graphics are really simplistic and I doubt it has all the sophisticated flight modeling and such that we all expect from this kind of game. IL-2 and DCS really weren’t designed specifically for VR and they tax the system heavily in order to run at even a mediocre level. Making these sims run well in VR would mean dumbing down all graphics and physics that make these games appealing. 

Then there is the upcoming MSFS 2020 which won’t run VR at all (initially ?). My guess is that won’t happen until hardware is up to it, looking at those graphics that will be a long time.  

6 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

All I can say is I thoroughly enjoy IL2 & DCS in VR using a Reverb and wouldn't be playing them (nor buying content) otherwise.

DCS seems to be a mixed bag of results and personal expectations. Some people aren’t bothered by low FPS and artifacts. Other can’t take it. ED themselves tried to offer improvements to VR performance only to discover it didn’t work equally with everyone. And they don’t seem to understate why. Players also get mixed results that can’t be easily explained. The idea that the sim can be magically “optimized” to run VR well is probably a bit farfetched. We’ll see... It’s possible that DCS just stretches VR beyond the boundaries that it’s capable of. It’s not VTOL VR and players don’t want it to be. I’m sure ED is stuck in a balancing act between elaborate sophisticated physics and modeling and animation like the upcoming Super Carrier and the ability of that to even run on VR at all. 

DCD and MSFS aren’t the subject of IL-2 but they’re a big reason I have stayed away from VR. If someday the performance gap is solved that remains to be seen. 

Edited by SharpeXB
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23 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Unexperienced comments snipped 

 

I am really not sure why the need to bring a competitor's product into this discussion.

I have both. I fly both exclusively in VR. They both do quite well with some pretty high graphics on my end.

 

Il-2 GB is quite well optimized currently for VR. In fact my settings are mostly maxed out with exception of clouds and shadows, which I have on High rather than Extreme.

My performance is quite smooth, maintaining max fps the majority of the time. 

 

uQk6SZb.jpg

 

I spend probably around 15-20 hours a week in VR. Some weeks more.

So I am speaking from experience. I certainly would not be spending all this time if it was as bad as you seem to think it is.

I do not spend hours upon hours tweaking and tuning. In fact I do none of that with my Rift S. I put the headset on, launch IL-2 GB , and have a tremendous amount of fun. In fact I am about to do that again here in a few minutes.  Again, speaking from actual experience.

 

This sim is stunning in VR. No one can appreciate how good it really is until they try it and put a few hours under their belt with it. And as one can tell from the poll and this forum, a significant number prefer VR. But yes, there will always be a few who have tried it that prefer using a monitor instead.

 

Of course as development continues and the Devs continue to improve and add things performance can suffer some. That has absolutely zero to do with VR, that applies globally across everything. Which is why we continue to update our rigs, invest in newer graphic cards, etc to enjoy our hobby. That is not a VR thing.

As far as that other sim you continually want to bring up, yes I use it also and have a great experience with it as well with high gfx settings. IL-2 is a little better in performance in VR, but the other ain't bad at all and is quite gorgeous also. I would hazard a guess the same would hold true in performance on monitors between them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Il-2 GB is quite well optimized currently for VR.

Yes by most accounts that’s what I understand. My own choice is actually influenced by other games. 

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

DCS and MSFS aren’t the subject of IL-2 but they’re a big reason I have stayed away from VR. If someday the performance gap is solved that remains to be seen. 

VR can take some investment of time and some missions can push it too far. From a competitive multiplayer aspect I can see that an experienced TrackIR player might prefer that option. For sheer immersion I am totally sold and would recommended it any flight combat sim fan with the caveat of needing to invest some time optimising their experience and getting their "VR legs" plus needing to invest in a decent PC and a current VR headset.

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

VTOL VR isn’t exactly a high fidelity complex sim like DCS or even this game. But it is an example of what a flight sim would be like if it was designed from the ground up for VR. It’s graphics are really simplistic and I doubt it has all the sophisticated flight modeling and such that we all expect from this kind of game. IL-2 and DCS really weren’t designed specifically for VR and they tax the system heavily in order to run at even a mediocre level. Making these sims run well in VR would mean dumbing down all graphics and physics that make these games appealing.

 

Reacting to your comments, my guess is that you have not actually used the VTOL VR simulation; perhaps you've just watched videos, or the like.  I'd encourage you to give it a real trial; it's not terrible expensive, and it's chock-full of capability.  It's every bit as complex as any FC3 aircraft module.

 

With all due respect, VTOL VR is not an arcade game, it is a sophisticated, complex simulation and more accurately represents what it probably is like to sit in a real modern combat aircraft cockpit behind many glass displays, trying to conduct aerial warfare in the way modern pilots currently have to interact with their aircraft.  Whether it models systems correctly or not applies to ALL simulations.

 

If done the way VTOL VR implements the experience, we'd be touching and manipulating the simulated cockpit VR joystick and throttle, as modeled in the aircraft 3D cockpits.  We'd be spinning the trim wheels, turning the radio knobs and pulling the trim levers, all in the VR cockpit itself.  That's why it is most applicable, given the limited state of track-able VR controllers, to the non-modern-jet world, with aircraft that have simple sticks and throttles.

 

We'd have no need of anything outside of the HMD.  No joystick.  No throttle.  That is what sets it apart and above all others.

 

I sincerely believe that any simulator can be constructed to support the VTOL VR methodology, particularly those which model the WW1 and WW2 birds, since they have fewer on-stick controls.  That's what can be done next.  Then "touchable" cockpits will actually be touchable, as opposed to "mouse-able".  The VTOL VR methodology probably won't add an iota of burden to the simulation performance, since it just changes the control scheme.

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3 hours ago, mpdugas said:

 

Reacting to your comments, my guess is that you have not actually used the VTOL VR simulation;

It looks like a game from 20 years ago. And there’s no way a tiny VR-only title has all the sophisticated DCS has. Oh yeah I’m sure that F-35 in there is all full systems accurate! (Not)

Sorry, that game has no appeal to me. It might seem amazing in VR but apart from that it’s worse than an iPad game. Like literally X-Plane 10 on the iPad looks better. 

If that’s the future of what VR flight sims are going to be like, I’ll pass on that, it’s like Office Simulator in a plane. And the virtual stick thing has no appeal to real sim players for sure. I look at that game and I fear for the future of this genre. All dumbed down to run in VR 😮

Edited by SharpeXB
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LOL, too funny.

 

Spent about 4 hours in my Bodenplatte Career this afternoon, awesome stuff.

If this is what flight simming in VR is like, whoa!!!! Oh wait, it is!! Living the dream baby.

Absolutely breathtaking.

:dance:

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3 hours ago, mpdugas said:

We'd have no need of anything outside of the HMD.  No joystick.  No throttle.  That is what sets it apart and above all others.

IMHO what makes sim racing and flight sims work so well in VR is that we can use our realistic direct drive steering wheels and flight controllers and throttles and it just works right with all the physical feelings whilst seeing a virtual representation in front of us. Controlling some virtual device with weightless controllers that feel completely different to the real controllers just doesn't work for me.

 

Also simplified "VR designed" graphics is a real turn off for me, something like Superhot VR just has zero interest. Whereas Medal of Honor: Above & Beyond looks the ticket. Now if we only had a proper M1 Garand controller... :)

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

It looks like a game from 20 years ago. And there’s no way a tiny VR-only title has all the sophisticated DCS has. Oh yeah I’m sure that F-35 in there is all full systems accurate! (Not)

Sorry, that game has no appeal to me. It might seem amazing in VR but apart from that it’s worse than an iPad game. Like literally X-Plane 10 on the iPad looks better. 

If that’s the future of what VR flight sims are going to be like, I’ll pass on that, it’s like Office Simulator in a plane. And the virtual stick thing has no appeal to real sim players for sure. I look at that game and I fear for the future of this genre. All dumbed down to run in VR 😮

 

20 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

IMHO what makes sim racing and flight sims work so well in VR is that we can use our realistic direct drive steering wheels and flight controllers and throttles and it just works right with all the physical feelings whilst seeing a virtual representation in front of us. Controlling some virtual device with weightless controllers that feel completely different to the real controllers just doesn't work for me.

 

Also simplified "VR designed" graphics is a real turn off for me, something like Superhot VR just has zero interest. Whereas Medal of Honor: Above & Beyond looks the ticket. Now if we only had a proper M1 Garand controller... :)

 

There are some things, special things, that come in deceptively simple, disarmingly quaint packages.

 

It is not what you think it is.  Not by a long shot.  I have all three simulators (DCSW, IL-2 and VTOL VR) (and a few others, to boot), so I can comment on it from personal experience.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

 

Peace out.

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On 12/23/2019 at 2:38 PM, SharpeXB said:

Sorry, that game has no appeal to me. It might seem amazing in VR but apart from that it’s worse than an iPad game. Like literally X-Plane 10 on the iPad looks better. 

If that’s the future of what VR flight sims are going to be like, I’ll pass on that, it’s like Office Simulator in a plane. And the virtual stick thing has no appeal to real sim players for sure. I look at that game and I fear for the future of this genre. All dumbed down to run in VR 😮

 

Dude, the amount of time you spend on the VR subforum pontificating about how bad VR must be, you could have ordered yourself an Oculus Rift S on Amazon, tested whether it sucks on your multi-thousand dollar rig with top-of-the-line 2080ti, and either be happy in VR or have returned the thing because it sucks. And then you'd actually know whether it sucks, rather than guessing.  🤦‍♂️

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11 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

Dude, the amount of time you spend on the VR subforum pontificating about how bad VR must be, you could have ordered yourself an Oculus Rift S on Amazon, tested whether it sucks on your multi-thousand dollar rig with top-of-the-line 2080ti, and either be happy in VR or have returned the thing because it sucks. And then you'd actually know whether it sucks, rather than guessing.  🤦‍♂️

The time it would take to evaluate it and come to the same conclusion of the accounts I can already read about it tell me it’s not worthwhile. Yet?  We’ll see how the technology develops. I just started into Assetto Corsa Competizione and the VR verdict there is 👎

On a monitor I’m looking at ultra level graphics in 4K+HDR/60hz with the hardware I have instead of tearing my hair out trying to make VR perform. 

Edited by SharpeXB

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SharpeXB, are both of your eyes sound? 

 

In any other case: The perspective and the distortions on a 2D monitor are horrible. Since I got my Reverb I lost any interest in the lifeless 2D images on my monitor.

 

I enjoy IL 2, PC 2, AC and AC Competizione and the Truck Simulators. But for the moment IL 2 gets all my attention.

But I have to admit I also enjoy tinkering with my hardware and software for the joy of it. I have no problem to do a "pre flight" routine on my system.

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18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

The time it would take to evaluate it and come to the same conclusion of the accounts I can already read about it tell me it’s not worthwhile. Yet?  We’ll see how the technology develops. I just started into Assetto Corsa Competizione and the VR verdict there is 👎

On a monitor I’m looking at ultra level graphics in 4K+HDR/60hz with the hardware I have instead of tearing my hair out trying to make VR perform. 

Assetto gets a thumbs up from me. If you’re not interested maybe ignore this thread as you’re unlikely to make us suddenly think “wow that guy was right, this sucks” when we all seem more than happy with the experience.  

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On 12/22/2019 at 9:09 PM, SharpeXB said:

I don’t have time for any of it. I seriously get the impression VR players spend more time screwing with their hardware than they do gaming. There are people who probably even enjoy that but it’s not for me. And as games get updated they become even more demanding and the performance becomes more degraded. So it seems like an endless circle of frustration even for people with top tier systems. 

I found Rift S to be simple. Like you I have little time. Tried Rift before but the sensors and wireing put me off. 
Rift S do not have that, it is relative cheap and plug and play. I flew smooth without tweaking for several month getting used to it. A week ago I spent an hour tweaking for better spotting. 
I went VR because I want to spend my time flying and experience that little extra immersion the little time I can fly. Not regretted it. My specs. On signature 

I did not enter the poll because I have no black and white opinion on the matter. 
I miss second screen for mission planner , I do not particular care for the scubamask view. But the Immersion if being in cockpit having a sense of judgement of distance is making up for all disadvantages

Edited by No.322_LuseKofte

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37 minutes ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

I found Rift S to be simple. Like you I have little time. Tried Rift before but the sensors and wireing put me off. 
Rift S do not have that, it is relative cheap and plug and play. I flew smooth without tweaking for several month getting used to it. A week ago I spent an hour tweaking for better spotting. 
I went VR because I want to spend my time flying and experience that little extra immersion the little time I can fly. Not regretted it. My specs. On signature 

I did not enter the poll because I have no black and white opinion on the matter. 
I miss second screen for mission planner , I do not particular care for the scubamask view. But the Immersion if being in cockpit having a sense of judgement of distance is making up for all disadvantages

I've got a rift cv1, I'm interested how you found the spotting and performance in the rift s compared to the original rift. I currently feel 50/50 between monitor and vr and was wondering if you think that the improvement might make a difference? I don't find the sensors and wires a problem in the cv1 personally, so if that's the only significant difference I'll probably stick to the rift cv1.

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1 hour ago, Gomoto said:

 

But I have to admit I also enjoy tinkering with my hardware and software for the joy of it.

See for me any sort of tinkering is exactly what I never want to do in gaming. I don’t have the time or technical expertise for it. And the frustration factor is way too high. 

I do certainly believe people when they say once you try VR you won’t want to go back. That’s one reason I won’t even try it in gaming. I could easily just borrow the Rift from my office. Because it would lead me down the path of eternal frustration. 🤯

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27 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

 I could easily just borrow the Rift from my office. 

 

Yes!  Please do:salute:

 

Assetto Corsa?   Project CARS is my racing fave.  Here I am tearing my hair out in VR.:)

 

 

 

'But the Immersion if being in cockpit having a sense of judgement of distance is making up for all disadvantages'   Yep, Lusekofte is spot on there. 

 

 I'm quite sure large, high res, 4k screens are fantastic but the truth is the references and comparisons with 2D screens are irrelevant.  They are two completely different ways of enjoying the same game.

 

Go on Sharpe; take the Rift home for the weekend.  Remember, you have nothing to fear but fear itself.😎

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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The time it would take to evaluate it and come to the same conclusion of the accounts I can already read about it tell me it’s not worthwhile. Yet?  We’ll see how the technology develops. I just started into Assetto Corsa Competizione and the VR verdict there is 👎

On a monitor I’m looking at ultra level graphics in 4K+HDR/60hz with the hardware I have instead of tearing my hair out trying to make VR perform. 

 

You're reading accounts from random idiots on the internet (I count myself among them), people you have never met and who have who knows what level of technical competence. The accounts from people who say VR is a pain are the ones you listen to, but not the accounts from people who say VR is magic and awesome and that's all they use.

 

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

See for me any sort of tinkering is exactly what I never want to do in gaming. I don’t have the time or technical expertise for it. And the frustration factor is way too high. 

I do certainly believe people when they say once you try VR you won’t want to go back. That’s one reason I won’t even try it in gaming. I could easily just borrow the Rift from my office. Because it would lead me down the path of eternal frustration. 🤯

 

This doesn't make logical sense. I've come to the conclusion that you are a troll and I am wasting my time responding to you. Sadly, you are only the third person I'm setting to ignore, I just need to get the hours of my life back from trying to type logical responses to your stuff.

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Here’s an idea. Don’t make polls entitled “What do you think about VR” if you don’t want to read what people think about VR 😶

 

Merry Christmas. 

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2 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

I've got a rift cv1, I'm interested how you found the spotting and performance in the rift s compared to the original rift. I currently feel 50/50 between monitor and vr and was wondering if you think that the improvement might make a difference? I don't find the sensors and wires a problem in the cv1 personally, so if that's the only significant difference I'll probably stick to the rift cv1.

To me Rift S after following these Tweaks  much better. I found instrument panel to be much better readable and general graphics better. But I used Firsd edition Rift on and of for two month only and did no tweaks on it. I like the speakers in the forhead, but many prefer the original setup of headphones

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I wish I had Vr or a High resolution screen.
The only thing I did afford is my old 1080p screen and the head tracker I built, glued and soldered myself.

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I have no regrets moving up to the s. I wouldn't go back to the cv1

 

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11 minutes ago, Leon_Portier said:

I wish I had Vr or a High resolution screen.
The only thing I did afford is my old 1080p screen and the head tracker I built, glued and soldered myself.

To be fair my monitor is an old HD TV and I don't think VR's better, just different. My ED tracker was pennies compared to track ir and I think it's great.

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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

See for me any sort of tinkering is exactly what I never want to do in gaming. I don’t have the time or technical expertise for it. And the frustration factor is way too high. 

I do certainly believe people when they say once you try VR you won’t want to go back. That’s one reason I won’t even try it in gaming. I could easily just borrow the Rift from my office. Because it would lead me down the path of eternal frustration. 🤯

 

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Here’s an idea. Don’t make polls entitled “What do you think about VR” if you don’t want to read what people think about VR 😶

 

Merry Christmas. 

I would imagine a poll entitled “What do you think about VR” on an IL2 forum would assume people have tried it for IL2...

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8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The time it would take to evaluate it and come to the same conclusion of the accounts I can already read about it tell me it’s not worthwhile. Yet?  We’ll see how the technology develops. I just started into Assetto Corsa Competizione and the VR verdict there is 👎

On a monitor I’m looking at ultra level graphics in 4K+HDR/60hz with the hardware I have instead of tearing my hair out trying to make VR perform. 

 

LOL.

You have no clue. None.  No path of eternal frustration here, or any frustration for that matter.

 

And no don't bring the Rift CV1 from work, that is old tech. Or maybe it is a DK2 LOL. The one pic you posted several months ago was actually an original Vive.

Hey at least we don't hammer the other forums berating monitor flying constantly month after month.

Yet you just keep doing it. That is what rubs some VR enthusiasts.

You reap what you sow. 

 

 

Edited by dburne
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2 hours ago, DD_Crash said:

Well it seems that 90% are wrong to enjoy VR.

 

Yeah we're obviously doing something wrong! Maybe we're all deluded or drunk.

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