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[ASOR]Pharoah

Ju 88 C-6a - we getting night missions?

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Have I missed something? I just read up on the C-6A (basic wikipedia) and it states: the C-6 as night fighter was typically equipped with FuG 202 Lichtenstein BC low-UHF band airborne intercept radar, using the complex 32-dipole Matratze antennas. The first four C-6 night fighters were tested in early 1942 by NJG 2. The trials were successful and the aircraft was ordered into production. In October 1943, many C-6s were upgraded with new radar systems. The first new radar equipment was the FuG 212 Lichtenstein C-1. After the UHF-band Lichtenstein radars had been compromised to the Allies in the late spring of 1943, the next development in German AI radar was the VHF-band FuG 220 Lichtenstein SN-2, discarding the 32-dipole Matratze antennae for the much larger eight-dipole Hirschgeweih (stag's antlers) aerials, required for the longer wavelength SN-2 system.

 

So does that mean we're getting night fighting capability? does that mean we'll be encountering streams of a/c from bomber command at night? I don't know much about Luftwaffe a/c but you certainly wouldn't be flying a JU88 nightfighter during the day, surely.

 

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A proper nightfighter has been a dream of mine for many years.  I don’t think this is planned for the Normandy expansion though.  

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As I understand it, not all C6s were used as night fighters.  I very much doubt that the developers are contemplating modelling airborne radar at this time. Most likely it'll be just the standard fighter-bomber version with no radar.

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C6 - a-

 

As I understand is not the night version

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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The Ju-88C6a was the heavy fighter version without radar. In France it was flown by V./KG 40 and later by parts of ZG 1, who flew missions over the Bay of Biscay. ZG 1 also flew missions against the Allied beachheads in June 1944 but suffered heavy losses and was withdrawn after a few days.

 

KG 40 also had a nightfighter detachment equipped with the Ju-88C6, but very few information is available about this unit. I don't know if all their C6 were equipped with radar.

 

A few radar equipped Ju-88C6s were also used by NJG 2,  that was transfered to France once the invasion started, but most of their aircraft were Ju-88Gs.

 

 

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Were they active as night intruders over Britain prior to the invasion?  There might be some interesting mission types to be had if that was the case.  

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1 minute ago, Feathered_IV said:

Were they active as night intruders over Britain prior to the invasion?  There might be some interesting mission types to be had if that was the case.  

No, this was the job of units equipped with the Me-410 and Fw-190.

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We are getting the heavy day fighter c6a without radar.

 

The radar equipped versions were C6b and C6c.

Edited by Carl_infar

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With the original question answered, what can we expect from this machine? It's the same as A4 but marginally faster due to removable gondola and solid nose? From some brief reading its bomb shackles were removed but bomb bay retained? Would that mean only 50kg bombs? Armament seemed to be a variety of 151s and MG17s?

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3 minutes ago, =RvE=Windmills said:

With the original question answered, what can we expect from this machine? It's the same as A4 but marginally faster due to removable gondola and solid nose? From some brief reading its bomb shackles were removed but bomb bay retained? Would that mean only 50kg bombs? Armament seemed to be a variety of 151s and MG17s?


According to Junkers Ju 88 in action Part 2 by squadron/signal publications, the C-6 has:

 

- 3x forward firing 7.92mm MGs

- 3x forward firing 20mm cannons

- 1x dorsal 7.92mm MG or 2x dorsal 7.92mm MG or 1x dorsal 13mm MG

- 1x ventral 7.92mm MG or 2x ventral 7.92mm MG or 1x ventral 13mm MG

- Up to 1,100 pounds of bombs

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As much as I love the 88, the C-6version doesn't bring all that much to the table, and was only operational in the theatre very briefly. It suffered heavily and achieved nothing, which I believe will be the historically accurate fate of players flying it online as well. A FW is going to be a better strafing platform in exactly all use cases.

 

The night fighter with radar would be much more interesting of course, but to be honest I don't see much use for it either as there aren't any proper targets to engage, the AI doesn't really support sneaking up on a formation of bombers, and night missions in general work so-so at best. All in all I want to love it but next to a 109G and 190A it seems a rather anemic addition.

 

...but it has two engines so I'll fly it.

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7 minutes ago, Luftschiff said:

As much as I love the 88, the C-6version doesn't bring all that much to the table, and was only operational in the theatre very briefly. It suffered heavily and achieved nothing, which I believe will be the historically accurate fate of players flying it online as well. A FW is going to be a better strafing platform in exactly all use cases.

 

It was also used in the East in trainbusting squadrons. It's not going to be a West-only plane.

 

123638-10189-pristine.jpg

Edited by LukeFF
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1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

It was also used in the East in trainbusting squadrons. It's not going to be a West-only plane.


Again according to Junkers Ju 88 in action Part 2 by squadron/signal publications, the C-6a was also used for escort and ground attack (the book doesn’t go into specific details here), so yes, we’re certainly going to get quite a bit of use out of it.

4 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Were they active as night intruders over Britain prior to the invasion?  There might be some interesting mission types to be had if that was the case.  


Apologies for being a broken record, but Junkers Ju 88 in action Part 2 by squadron/signal publications says that earlier versions like the C-2 and C-4 were used for intruder missions, but Hitler ordered these missions to stop on the 12th of October 1941. I would assume that he later allowed them to resume with the 190 and 410 as Juri says.


As an aside, we’re planning to have the C-2 in CloD 5.0, so it’s a good time to be a Ju-88 fighter lover!

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well, the rear bombbay (the front one is carrying a fuel tank) holds 10 x 50kg bombs ( thats the mentioned 1100pounds).

The ETC bombracks were not used in real, too much drag , too much weight.

 

But i can imagine that the ingame C6 will get these ETC to carry 4x250/500kg bombs.

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7 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

According to Junkers Ju 88 in action Part 2 by squadron/signal publications, the C-6 has:

- 3x forward firing 7.92mm MGs

- 3x forward firing 20mm cannons

- 1x dorsal 7.92mm MG or 2x dorsal 7.92mm MG or 1x dorsal 13mm MG

- 1x ventral 7.92mm MG or 2x ventral 7.92mm MG or 1x ventral 13mm MG

- Up to 1,100 pounds of bombs

 

It should also have the ability to delete two of those 20mm cannons (and potentially the entire gondola - including the ventral gunner) if I recall... all for a bit more speed.

 

The C6a lacks radar but some non-radar equipped Ju-88C were used as night fighters for a time. They also fought with Coastal Command Mosquitoes (so that is a possibility) and were used extensively for attacking trains on the Soviet front... so we've actually got at least three interesting campaigns as possibilities for this aircraft.

 

As for intruder roles - it is interesting to hear that they weren't used for that purpose - but I also seem to recall a few cases of determined night-fighter pilots following bomber back to their home airfields in England and strafing them as they landed... so, cases of individual initiative might justify occasional events like this (especially for units that weren't tied to defending a specific sector - which I believe was common later in the war?) It has been a long time since I read up on this though!

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3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

It should also have the ability to delete two of those 20mm cannons (and potentially the entire gondola - including the ventral gunner) if I recall... all for a bit more speed.

 

indeed! and than replace the single MG-FF with a MG151/20.

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10 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Does career mode support train busting missions yet?

 

There are already railway station attack missions, so add in something like an armed recon mission template, and you would pretty much have the C-6's mission profile right there. 

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20 hours ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

I don't know much about Luftwaffe a/c but you certainly wouldn't be flying a JU88 nightfighter during the day, surely.

 

The C6A was not a nightfighter, it was a heavy dayfighter. They were used only over the sea in such areas where the only enemy aircraft likely to be met were heavy marine aircraft (long range bombers or seaplanes).

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Back in the IL-2: 1946 days I had always hoped to see a Ju88C-6a variant so I could take a Ju88 out on attack missions rather than just pure bomber missions. I flew a lot of Ju88 sorties and I was always hoping to see a sold nose version... Here, after many years, it is. I know it's a bit more of an obscure aircraft but I'm looking forward to it.

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22 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

A proper nightfighter has been a dream of mine for many years.  

Same here. I would love to have a proper night bombing campaign eventually. For instance the two new maps of BoP and BoN linked together would allow for a "Battle of the Ruhr".

 

Just try to imagine that in VR!:o:

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9 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

There are already railway station attack missions, so add in something like an armed recon mission template, and you would pretty much have the C-6's mission profile right there. 

I think train busting will work better in scripted missions if you want to see the tactics used in reality.

The missions were flown by single aircraft or small groups without fighter escort. To avoid enemy fighters the front was crossed at high altitude (6000 m and above). When the aircraft were far enough in enemy territoy, sometimes hundreds of kilometers, they descended to 1000 m to search for targets.
Often the missions were flown at night, so the aircraft also carried LC 50 illumination bombs.

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