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Legioneod

BON P-47D Razorback

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Now that we’re getting a Razorback what block are you wanting most?

 

Since no official block has been announced it seems the Devs are still trying to figure out which one to choose. 

 

What do you hope they choose and why?

 

I’m ok with any Razorback but my hope is for the D-22 to be chosen. 

The D-22 was the most produced Razorback block apart from the D-23 which had similar numbers built.

The D-22 has a Hamilton standard prop which gives it good level speed performance over the Curtis counterpart (around 9mph). It also has wing racks and the ability to use late war boost with 150 fuel so it can fit well with Bodenplatte.

D-22 imo is the best option for BON and will go very well with Bodenplatte.

Edited by Legioneod
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29 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

When was the D-22's introduction to the frontline units? That usually a good indicator. 

 

Grt M

Production started in 43 iirc. I’ll have to check when they arrived in Europe. They were around during the Normandy invasion iirc.

Im at work so I’ll have to check later.

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D-22 for sure. If it’s good enough for the fellow in my avatar, who am I to disagree. 

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12 minutes ago, Yardstick said:

D-22 fits the timeframe and some soldiered on into late ‘44 / early ‘45.

Yep. D-22 served till the end of the war in Europe iirc, they also served in the Pacific till the end.

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I'd actually like to see the D-5 Razorback, but with the mod set to include both the later war propellers, the Water-Methanol Injection system and the 135 octane fuel limits. 

 

The D-22 would be a nice collector's plane with the us Lend-lease models, but the channel war period is where the D-5 served most, and where the P-47 went through many of its changes to make it a successful fighter, many of which were retro fitted to the D-5. That was also the version RS Johnson flew, and the version that his crew chief jimmied to run at 70" of boost on 135 gas. So here, I strongly believe that the P-47D-5 is the best P-47 version for the Battle of Normandy time frame. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Johnson#Becoming_an_ace

 

At least according to Wikipedia, RS Johnson flew his P-47D-5 from June 1943 through March 1944, and scored the majority of his victories in that plane. That just has to be the definitive P-47D version of the channel war period. 

Edited by Voyager

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20 minutes ago, Voyager said:

I'd actually like to see the D-5 Razorback, but with the mod set to include both the later war propellers, the Water-Methanol Injection system and the 135 octane fuel limits. 

 

The D-22 would be a nice collector's plane with the us Lend-lease models, but the channel war period is where the D-5 served most, and where the P-47 went through many of its changes to make it a successful fighter, many of which were retro fitted to the D-5. That was also the version RS Johnson flew, and the version that his crew chief jimmied to run at 70" of boost on 135 gas. So here, I strongly believe that the P-47D-5 is the best P-47 version for the Battle of Normandy time frame. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Johnson#Becoming_an_ace

 

At least according to Wikipedia, RS Johnson flew his P-47D-5 from June 1943 through March 1944, and scored the majority of his victories in that plane. That just has to be the definitive P-47D version of the channel war period. 

D-5 wouldn’t be bad but it’s not my preferred choice. 

No wing racks, or paddle prop if they keep it stock.

Only around 300 D-5 were built vs the 800+ D-22.

 

If the expansion was taking place in 43 I’d say the D-5 is a must. Personally I think anything below a D-15 should be saved as a collector or another expansion like New Guinea.

 

Johnson did say the D-5 was the best P-47 he ever flew, probably because of all the things he had done to it.

Edited by Legioneod

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7 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

D-5 wouldn’t be bad but it’s not my preferred choice. 

No wing racks, or paddle prop if they keep it stock.

Only around 300 D-5 were built vs the 800+ D-22.

 

If the expansion was taking place in 43 I’d say the D-5 is a must. Personally I think anything below a D-15 should be saved as a collector or another expansion like New Guinea.

 

Johnson did say the D-5 was the best P-47 he ever flew, probably because of all the things he had done to it.

Yeah I doubt the devs are going to give us the Johnson P-47. That's just hilariously non-standard. Funnily enough I have read his book and for whatever reason don't recall the stuff about modding the airplane...what's the source for that stuff? Or do I just have a weird edition of the book where that wasn't included?

But if people want to ask the devs to give us the Johnson, all power to them, no judgement from me.
 

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@Legioneod The announcement seems to imply that they are covering the late 1943 period as well. 

 

@RedKestrelWhile I doubt we'll get the 70" version, all they did to do that was use the 135 gas and disregard the boost limits. We should be able to get the 64" setting as a late war modification, since as I recall, all R-2800 were cleared to use it with 135+ octane gas and water injection. 

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3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Now that we’re getting a Razorback what block are you wanting most?

 

For you to confine all your P-47 comments to this thread only.

Edited by CUJO_1970
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The focus of BON is really spring/summer 44, so you need a version which fits that time frame primarily.

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Probably will be a D-22.
 

Someday I would love to just make a big plane package of "other variants" that didn't have time to do or were missing info at the time.

 

Jason

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The 365th used a combination of bubble tops and razor backs all the way through 1944. This means I’ll be able to go back into the scripted campaign and add some variation in the flights...very cool.

 

Edited by Gambit21
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19 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

For you to confine all your P-47 comments to this thread only.

Sorry bubba, didn’t realize it bothered you so much.

 

I don’t recall posting anywhere else about it besides the Normandy thread.

 

 

Edited by Legioneod

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D-22 so much the better.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

Probably will be a D-22.
 

Someday I would love to just make a big plane package of "other variants" that didn't have time to do or were missing info at the time.

 

Jason

 

 

A-20G approves of this notion.

Edited by Gambit21
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Just now, Gambit21 said:

 

D-22 so much the better.

Agreed. Main reason I want it is for use in both Normandy and Bodenplatte. If we get earlier 43 or Pacific theater I’d go with something like the D-5 or D-15

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3 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

Probably will be a D-22.
 

Someday I would love to just make a big plane package of "other variants" that didn't have time to do or were missing info at the time.

 

Jason

 

Was hoping for a D-5, but the D-22 is a nice one too. And because it's the same R-280-59 engine as was fitted to the P-47D-28, we should be able to get mods for both the 100 octane and 135 octane settings right?

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Just now, Voyager said:

 

 

Was hoping for a D-5, but the D-22 is a nice one too. And because it's the same R-280-59 engine as was fitted to the P-47D-28, we should be able to get mods for both the 100 octane and 135 octane settings right?

150 octane. 135 was standard in Europe was it not?

 

159 octane is what allowed for higher 70” boost as a official setting.

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4 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Agreed. Main reason I want it is for use in both Normandy and Bodenplatte. If we get earlier 43 or Pacific theater I’d go with something like the D-5 or D-15

 

I'm not sure that the D-5 saw service anywhere other than European Theater. I'm looking at the 108th Operations group, and checking serial numbers, it looks like the earliest block they had were D-11's

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Just now, Voyager said:

 

I'm not sure that the D-5 saw service anywhere other than European Theater. I'm looking at the 108th Operations group, and checking serial numbers, it looks like the earliest block they had were D-11's

Ah ok, wasn’t sure. I know early D blocks were used in New Guinea but wasn’t sure exactly what blocks

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1 minute ago, Legioneod said:

150 octane. 135 was standard in Europe was it not?

 

159 octane is what allowed for higher 70” boost as a official setting.

135 octane. The 100 octane P-47 was the one that has 2300 HP at 52" of boost. It was only later that they were cleared to run 2600hp at 64" of boost, but my understanding was that that was applied to all aircraft running 135, but that when they were initially deployed they were not officially cleared for that power setting.

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9 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

D-22 so much the better.

 

 

 

 

A-20G approves of this notion.

 

That requires a lot more work than you realize.

 

Jason

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Just now, Jason_Williams said:

 

That requires a lot more work than you realize.

 

Jason

 

I’m sure - just miss that thing :)

 

10 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Agreed. Main reason I want it is for use in both Normandy and Bodenplatte. If we get earlier 43 or Pacific theater I’d go with something like the D-5 or D-15

 

I can start the player in an older “hand me down” razor back.

This is going to be so cool!

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11 minutes ago, Voyager said:

135 octane. The 100 octane P-47 was the one that has 2300 HP at 52" of boost. It was only later that they were cleared to run 2600hp at 64" of boost, but my understanding was that that was applied to all aircraft running 135, but that when they were initially deployed they were not officially cleared for that power setting.

Iirc 2300 is for 56” not 52”.

Interesting. From what I’ve read higher boost settings above 64” were only official with 44-1 (150) fuel.

135 or whatever it may be I thought was the standard fuel in Europe, as the boost change from 56” to 64” didn’t require any change in fuel used but only in the water injection system.

Edited by Legioneod

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What’s the weight difference between the D-22 and the D-28? Is the D-22 just your run-of-the-mill overweight gal, or are both obese? 

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12 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I’m sure - just miss that thing :)

 

 

I can start the player in an older “hand me down” razor back.

This is going to be so cool!

As far as you know, were there squadrons that mix-and-matched razorbacks and bubbletops? Or were squadrons just equipped with one type for commonality?

Just now, Pre said:

What’s the weight difference between the D-22 and the D-28? Is the D-22 just your run-of-the-mill overweight gal, or are both obese? 

Please, we prefer the term "Reubenesque" 

 

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Just now, RedKestrel said:

As far as you know, were there squadrons that mix-and-matched razorbacks and bubbletops? Or were squadrons just equipped with one type for commonality?

 

Mix and match it seems according to photos. I’ll post one later.

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11 minutes ago, Pre said:

What’s the weight difference between the D-22 and the D-28? Is the D-22 just your run-of-the-mill overweight gal, or are both obese? 

Iirc it’s around 13,200 lbs full fuel. This is off the top of my head since I’m at work. I’ll double check when I get home.

 

D-22 is slightly lighter than the D-28, it carried less fuel and water iirc.

D-22 is faster when using similar power/weight due to the Hamilton prop and due to drag of the bubble canopy.

11 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

As far as you know, were there squadrons that mix-and-matched razorbacks and bubbletops? Or were squadrons just equipped with one type for commonality?

 

They mix and matched. I recall reading a pilot account of the Battle of Bodenplatte where he was stuck using an old Razorback while his the rest of his flight had bubbletops.

He said he was thankful about getting the Razorback because it was a bit more maneuverable in the turn compared to the bubble top. Not sure how true that is but that’s what he claimed

Edited by Legioneod

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Here’s the photo on the back of the Hell Hawks book I have with me - excuse the reflections and angle. I have a normal copy on my hard drive at home.

B5F49B26-5879-44EE-9378-5C14DA6EB07E.jpeg

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15 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Iirc 2300 is for 56” not 52”.

Interesting. From what I’ve read higher boost settings above 64” were only official with 44-1 (150) fuel.

135 or whatever it may be I thought was the standard fuel in Europe, as the boost change from 56” to 64” didn’t require any change in fuel used but only in the water injection system.

 

Apparently we're both wrong; it's 58", at least according to this manual (pg 30):

https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-r/republic/item/5088-an-01-65bc-1-pilots-flight-operating-instructions-for-rp-47b-c-and-p-47d--g

 

Everything I've seen is that the Water Injection came first, and it was only after they started working with the 135 octane fuel that they found that it could be run with WI and 130 at 64".

 

The B,C,D manual from January 1943 has WI with 100 Octane fuel getting 2300hp, while the January 1945 manual has 64" with WI and 130 Octane fuel (pg 36): https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-r/republic/item/5089-an-01-65bc-1a-pilots-flight-operating-instructions-for-p-47d-25-26-27-28-30-and-35-airplanes

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12 minutes ago, Voyager said:

 

Apparently we're both wrong; it's 58", at least according to this manual (pg 30):

https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-r/republic/item/5088-an-01-65bc-1-pilots-flight-operating-instructions-for-rp-47b-c-and-p-47d--g

 

Everything I've seen is that the Water Injection came first, and it was only after they started working with the 135 octane fuel that they found that it could be run with WI and 130 at 64".

 

The B,C,D manual from January 1943 has WI with 100 Octane fuel getting 2300hp, while the January 1945 manual has 64" with WI and 130 Octane fuel (pg 36): https://www.avialogs.com/aircraft-r/republic/item/5089-an-01-65bc-1a-pilots-flight-operating-instructions-for-p-47d-25-26-27-28-30-and-35-airplanes

Interesting about the 58”, I wonder if they just rounded it down as I’ve read 56” is equivalent to 2300hp.

Ive seen the same thing done for the P-47N/M, they ran at 72” and 2800hp but 70 for the P-47D is cited as 2800hp as well.

 

As far as fuel types go I honesty have no idea. I just hope for 150 octane as a mod so I can get my 70”.

Edited by Legioneod

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1 hour ago, Jason_Williams said:

That requires a lot more work than you realize.

 

Everything does, and we are very grateful that you guys put in the long work hours while we bitch about a side panel not opening in the right direction, etc.. Thanks for Normandy, and dang you for making me take out a second mortgage on my scooter to make the down payment :)

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1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Mix and match it seems according to photos. I’ll post one later.

Another example : 56th FG, Boxted.

56..thumb.jpg.9904e7346da277c2305a72de0cf7a962.jpg

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It would be interesting to have the Malcolm Hood for the P-47 as a modification, most likely we will get it for the P-51, but it seems a good bit of P-47s also had it :)


Photo spam below:


 

Spoiler

P-47D-356thFS354thFG-M-hood.jpg

P-47D_42-76594_Malcolm_Hood_Zombie_QI-U_

Air-Sea_Rescue_P-47_Thunderbolt_of_the_5

Hli9qHp.jpgK4-S_a.jpg

P-47_with_Malcolm_Hood_OS-R_42-22784_of_
 

 

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2 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

It would be interesting to have the Malcolm Hood for the P-47 as a modification, most likely we will get it for the P-51, but it seems a good bit of P-47s also had it :)


Photo spam below:


 

  Hide contents

P-47D-356thFS354thFG-M-hood.jpg

P-47D_42-76594_Malcolm_Hood_Zombie_QI-U_

Air-Sea_Rescue_P-47_Thunderbolt_of_the_5

Hli9qHp.jpgK4-S_a.jpg

P-47_with_Malcolm_Hood_OS-R_42-22784_of_
 

 

LOL, for some reason that just looks really weird to me! Like a bubbletop and a razorback had an illicit encounter and produced this as a baby.

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2 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Probably will be a D-22.
 

Someday I would love to just make a big plane package of "other variants" that didn't have time to do or were missing info at the time.

 

Jason

That's awesome news, Thanks Jason. I think that idea could be great down the road

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