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IndianJones

AI improvements gratitude

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Maybe they are happy because the AI is beginning to resemble noob human pilots in RL? Or considerably better IMHO, given that a considerable proportion of fighter pilots were lost in their first few flights, perhaps in their first actual fight. 

 

If you want to play against people who fly as though they have hundreds of hours of combat, stick to MP. It just is not a realistic aspiration for the AI.  

35 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

This is a result of the hard-coded AI landing logic that I've been wanting to be changed forever now.

 

Yes, Han said this is hard to change when I raised it in a thread a while ago.  Why the AI cannot touch down in the middle of the runway rather than right at one end I do not know, but I leave it to the programmers.  Another solution would be to make the landing circuits larger so that one circuit is completed just after the plane in front has exited: a longer circuit only done once would still be better than the current delays.

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AI improvements are interesting. 

 

In Bodenplatte career AI seems relatively easy compared to Stalingrad and Kuban career AI which is quite fierce.

I have had on those two careers, recently, some very fierce fights on both sides against AI.

 

Experience on BP has been on both sides be it 109 career and P47 and Spit IX careers.

 

My last flight in a Spit V in Kuban I had a bunch of pissed off 109G4's running me down back to base cause I took some of their 190A5's out. 😁

Nearly made it back to base but lost a wing with 5 109's hounding me.  Managed to chut back to terra firma.

 

I am finding though that it is not seemingly possible to loose AI pursuers in cloud cover.  AI know where you are regardless of large levels of cloud cover to hide in and alter course in. Earlier it was possible to loose pursuers in cloud cover.

 

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4 hours ago, blitze said:

AI improvements are interesting. 

 

I am finding though that it is not seemingly possible to loose AI pursuers in cloud cover.  AI know where you are regardless of large levels of cloud cover to hide in and alter course in. Earlier it was possible to loose pursuers in cloud cover.

 

 

AI sees quite well in clouds and clouds certainly do not block LOS of AI as they should. I've created a topic about it here, they see you well in overcast.

They see you well in overcast, I had the same problem when trying to outrun AI in overcast and they were still able to follow me back to base (this is my biggest gripe with AI, following you all the way back to base). 

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13 hours ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

Hummm, people being happy because the AI resembles noob human piloting on multiplayer.

I mean, what the heck?

I for one at least am happy that progress is being made. Things still have  a ways to go, but it is a hell of a lot better than when the career mode was first introduced. I've been flying the same 109 career from the start of Moscow up to nearly the end of Kuban now, and the improvements are quite visible to me (that career alone has something like 80 hours flight time). It used to be that my flight members would never get kills, and often times I'd be the only one returning to base, due to their either being shot down trying to turn fight or flying into the ground. Now I am having flights where we get into brawls, and my flight mates will shoot down 3 or 4 fighters, and maybe lose one or two (especially in the last couple patches, the Bf-110s that have been showing up in Kuban have been doing work, it's almost astonishing). Formation flying has improved a lot too, the flight lead used to be miles ahead of the wingmen, with the wingmen wobbling all over the place. So yea, there is still a lot of room for improvement, but it is waaaaaaay better than it once was. 

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15 hours ago, unreasonable said:

If you want to play against people who fly as though they have hundreds of hours of combat, stick to MP. It just is not a realistic aspiration for the AI.  

One thing is to fly like a noob, and pther is crashing against floor because you wanted to destroy a landing plane.

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8 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

One thing is to fly like a noob, and pther is crashing against floor because you wanted to destroy a landing plane.

I've watched friends of mine do this in multiplayer. I've also spent a good 15 min trench running down Stalingrad streets in career mode with a Bf-109 up on  the stoop making passes at me, but holding altitude when I am too close to the ground. Made for quite the chase. Eventually ended when I  tried to make a break for home, but ran out of gas.

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Is that so ? I tried one on one against an Ace opponent and it did seem much better.  Alright well, if the AI improved, then automatic buy from me. Getting Bodenplatte to test this out. 

Oh, and, since I have been complaining a lot about the AI, then yes. MUCH THANK YOU !! AI is everything in a combat sim, I do think. 

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I was just flying a ground attack mission with the Bf 110 E2 in PWCG, escorted by 6 Bf 109s. No enemy contact, 5 109s crashed, when we changed our heading. This is what I experience again and again. These absolutely simple things are, what should be improved at once. What do I need enemy planes for? We lose the war without them.

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2 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

I was just flying a ground attack mission with the Bf 110 E2 in PWCG, escorted by 6 Bf 109s. No enemy contact, 5 109s crashed, when we changed our heading. This is what I experience again and again. These absolutely simple things are, what should be improved at once. What do I need enemy planes for? We lose the war without them.

 

That sounds like a mission logic problem to me, not AI.

I haven’t witnessed this behavior.

 

If I remember correctly Patrick doesn’t use actual formation logic, but rather places waypoints for each aircraft, If these waypoints are not placed correctly then you can get the results that you witnessed.

 

I’d report the issue to him.

 

 

This is why we’ve had to remind a few testers to be careful reporting bugs if using PWCG. Nothing against Patrick’s fine work, but just be able to determine the difference between logic and AI issues.

 

All that said maybe it was some aberrant AI behavior, but I doubt it.

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1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

If I remember correctly Patrick doesn’t use actual formation logic, but rather places waypoints for each aircraft, If these waypoints are not placed correctly then you can get the results that you witnessed

OK, agreed. But shouldn't there be some kind of basic AI logic, like

1. Try to survive

2. Try to return your aircraft in one piece

This is something, that misses in this game. They should always try to avoid crashes. And another thing that surely would make this easier is, if AI would not always fly hard turns, even with low speed. When I fly escort missions, AI turns like mad at 300 km/h. If I would try to follow them, I surely would constantly go into a stall.

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27 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

OK, agreed. But shouldn't there be some kind of basic AI logic, like

1. Try to survive

2. Try to return your aircraft in one piece

This is something, that misses in this game. They should always try to avoid crashes. And another thing that surely would make this easier is, if AI would not always fly hard turns, even with low speed. When I fly escort missions, AI turns like mad at 300 km/h. If I would try to follow them, I surely would constantly go into a stall.

 

There’s some hard coded collision avoidance logic between non-linked aircraft, but it’s ‘gentle’ so to speak - in close proximity and with that turn/heading change it probably wasn’t enough. It’s up to the mission designer to place waypoints properly. (again nothing against our talented Patrick)

 

When using formation command there is much more aggressive collision avoidance logic in place. 

 

As as far as “bring your aircraft home in one piece” that suggests AI on a whole other level. :)

 

 

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I seldom play SP but just wanted to check how it will be to attack Volkel  airfield  at the time of famous Operation Bodenplatte  airfield raids (1.01.1945) in 109 of I./JG77. 
career difficulty hard, moderate objects densinity.

When I finaly get there with my AI 109s flight (route speed was 450kp/h but they flew way below that speed), AI passed airfield above, do not dive to drop the bombs or strafe targets, passing  airfield they decide to turn when at the same time enemy Tempests start to merge... so they droped the bombs where it will falls . No static target was destroyed by them. Suprised AA  was whole time weak, was fighting with emeny above it with inpunity (which can be seen as good -  AA was avoiding to kill own but when all enemy where gone there was the same low amplitude of AA bursts and machine guns fire), shoot down 10 enemy planes, my squad in number of 8 was unable to shoot down even one ....
Most AIs were not attacking, flying withot clue what to do, when attacked common defensive maneuver was to trun circlying, one AI must get seak of it  becouse he decited to end this pathetic patern and dived into ground -  that was funny 😉  
After all Tempest were shoot down, I sppoted and attacked 3 flying near by p47s carring bombs. When I was about to shoot down the last one from behind and below, he manage to detect me ,dropped the bombs but then he did stupid thing to "brake" in horizontal slow right turn. One thing I liked from second fight is that I was able to stay below and  behind first p47 and suprise him.

No AI were landing when we came, no AI were taking off to make mission more intresting. Overall boring expierence really. 

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This sim is great in many ways but AI is not one of them. I know it is a work in progress and has been improved but still has a LONG way to go. This game should never be boring but in SP it is. I typically play for 10 minutes and then I’m out.  I would take all the resources going into tanks, multiple versions of the same plane and new maps and put it into AI. 

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13 hours ago, smink1701 said:

This sim is great in many ways but AI is not one of them. I know it is a work in progress and has been improved but still has a LONG way to go. This game should never be boring but in SP it is. I typically play for 10 minutes and then I’m out.  I would take all the resources going into tanks, multiple versions of the same plane and new maps and put it into AI. 

I don't have a problem with AI quick missions in VR. Put them on Ace and good luck.

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4 hours ago, onlyforbrian said:

I don't have a problem with AI quick missions in VR. Put them on Ace and good luck.

I had yesterday ,qmb  (2x 109 g14 ,2x190 A8 -random ) vs ( 4x p51 and 4x Tempest - ACE), end result 7 AI killed by me in 109. Some my kills were when AI actually did do something else that before ie. -  in vertical climb which was new, presume after bum and zoom attack.

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

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11 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

end result 7 AI killed by me

 

That happens to me in an 8vs8 QMB too.  When the AI is set to Ace I end up destroying up to 7 of the enemy while the rest of the AI sort of shimmy around.

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32 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

That happens to me in an 8vs8 QMB too.  When the AI is set to Ace I end up destroying up to 7 of the enemy while the rest of the AI sort of shimmy around.

Yes , they are useless.

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I noticed I can no longer be stupid around ai planes. 109 can attack from no where abandon climb and attack again. Leaving me no chance seeing where they cone from. 
Much like in mp, however if you manage to get behind them I really cant see much difference, there is still a way to go. 
But I am satisfied as long as I am able to respect them. Now we need proper communication and wingmen to rely on. Improved yes but still I do not feel safe with them

I do not blame the devs, following this sim from the start, seeing all the improvements make one realize how much work and development it takes making a living vibrant single player environment. 
One just have to admire the effort 

Edited by No.322_LuseKofte

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15 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Yes , they are useless.

Wow.. the AI works great on my machine, high settings are a real workout for me, they actually kill me 50% of the time. Maybe I'm just a lousy pilot..even though I'm a real pilot in real life lol

 

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9 hours ago, onlyforbrian said:

Wow.. the AI works great on my machine, high settings are a real workout for me, they actually kill me 50% of the time. Maybe I'm just a lousy pilot..even though I'm a real pilot in real life lol

 

At least you have fun with then , enjoy it :)

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13 hours ago, onlyforbrian said:

even though I'm a real pilot in real life lol

And how many dogfights with WW II fighters are you flying IRL?:joy:

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AI did improve in last few patches but still far from being challenging!

Dogfighting alone in g-14/p51/k4/spit9 vs. 4x Spit9/k4 Ace lvl and shooting them down without any problem or a challenge, in a turn/vertical fight.

 

I should be dead going against 3-4 enemies, that should be relevance.

And i'm average skilled pilot, so let's give them objective feedback, that will help product the most.

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After they already improved enemy AI, they should, after stopping the circling, now do something for those, who are not only playing the lonesome cowboy, fighting as many enemies as possible all the time, but prefer flying the game's career or PWCG. When you try to use IL 2 as a simulation more than a first person shooter, you are by far most of the time flying with your squadmates in formation in landing approach and so on, and only very few time dogfighting. So it is of much more interest, how believable does AI behave in normal situations. And here currently is quite something to do. Plus the opening of engagements of your squadmates is a pain. Everytime I see how they burn their energy instead of trying to use it to their advantage, I would like to exit and do some housework, and I hate housework.

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