Jump to content
[ASOR]Pharoah

Medium bombers

Recommended Posts

21 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

Older games had smart aproch to things by not lisening to SP players demands to have AI that uses same FM and control of airplane like human do, and have all gunners controled by one brain, not every brain for every gunner. Now you have AI that is hard to program and uses extreme amount of PC so you can have small numbers of them in air or ground compared to previous games, with no benefits as players still se AI behavior as main problem, and it cant be esay fixed as when you had them using simple FM like AI got fixed by TD in 1946 and is stil best behaving one i saw, and no need for it to use same complex FM like humans. 

Older games, well... the good old times when some onliner only simmers did not have the influence to ruin the reputation of a sim with constant forum complaining?

 

Of course it's all the SP offliners fault! It's really them we hear whining all day on sim forums.... lol

 

Seriously, i was more under the impression that the need for the AI to stop "cheating " originate from casual online coop players and online war aces that could not cope with the fact that they were shot down by "cheating" AI (because you know AI is easy to shoot down, however they cheat, go figure). At the same time they considered SP players as sub category of simmers and pushed the devs to consider only player vs player gameplay so that they could make it a e sport: the score board being so historically important...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Caudron431Rafale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

 

Not sure if @Gambit21 has gotten the message.

Friggin formatting issue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Sublime said:

 

 

A bit early to be drinking isn't it XD

 

But ditto on mighty 8th. I was too young to appreciate it in its entirety, but I still got a lot of value out of it. Would be amazing to have it in the IL-2 world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

Getting the Mosquito is really nice. Hope it comes as a bomber in one modification. If it does I am set. If not we really need late war medium bombers on allied side. 

 

I had thought about that a little bit. Is there a bomber variant that is essentially the same as the Mosquito FB.VI that we're getting. Down to the same engines and other plumbing? I did a little research on that but I hadn't gotten too far into it. If so... put a different nose and a bombsight on the FB.VI and we have a bomber variant Mosquito. It'd be interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

I had thought about that a little bit. Is there a bomber variant that is essentially the same as the Mosquito FB.VI that we're getting. Down to the same engines and other plumbing? I did a little research on that but I hadn't gotten too far into it. If so... put a different nose and a bombsight on the FB.VI and we have a bomber variant Mosquito. It'd be interesting.

It would be great to have a mk IV modification (the glazed nose version which could drop 4000lb bombs), but unfortunately I think it's unlikely; as far as I understand, a large proportion of the work involved in making a discrete plane in the sim is the cockpit modelling, so although the engines, 3d model and flight model are likely very similar, it would be far less simple than for example slapping a few gunpods on a stuka to make a different model, or providing the facility to clip the wings on a spit. 

Edited by 71st_AH_Barnacles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would probably be easier to make one later, but I very much doubt there would be a mod to turn the current one into a bomber variant.

 

That's way too much work for a single mod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

I had thought about that a little bit. Is there a bomber variant that is essentially the same as the Mosquito FB.VI that we're getting. Down to the same engines and other plumbing? I did a little research on that but I hadn't gotten too far into it. If so... put a different nose and a bombsight on the FB.VI and we have a bomber variant Mosquito. It'd be interesting.

 

The FB/NF variants had flat windscreens (perpendicular to the airflow) and B/PR variants had angled windscreens (vee shaped into the airflow). FB/NF variants had sticks and Bs/PRs had yokes. There was some engine commonality (Merlin 21 or 23s) with some FBs getting slightly more powerful Merlin 25s. 

Edited by busdriver
grammar
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

I had thought about that a little bit. Is there a bomber variant that is essentially the same as the Mosquito FB.VI that we're getting. Down to the same engines and other plumbing? I did a little research on that but I hadn't gotten too far into it. If so... put a different nose and a bombsight on the FB.VI and we have a bomber variant Mosquito. It'd be interesting.

 

Bombs should be dropped down in the weeds...straight down the enemy’s throat - no bomb site needed. :)

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Bombs should be dropped down in the weeds...straight down the enemy’s throat - no bomb site needed. :)

Who needs bombs at all if you've got 8 guns like the mosquito Fb VI

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

It would be great to have a mk IV modification (the glazed nose version which could drop 4000lb bombs), but unfortunately I think it's unlikely; as far as I understand, a large proportion of the work involved in making a discrete plane in the sim is the cockpit modelling, so although the engines, 3d model and flight model are likely very similar, it would be far less simple than for example slapping a few gunpods on a stuka to make a different model, or providing the facility to clip the wings on a spit. 

 

7 minutes ago, busdriver said:

 

The FB/NF variants had flat windscreens (perpendicular to the airflow) and B/PR variants had angled (vee shaped into the airflow). FB/NF variants had sticks and Bs/PRs had yokes. There was some engine commonality (Merlin 21 or 23s) with some FBs getting more slightly powerful Merlin 25s. 

 

Right. Based on that, it doesn't seem too practical then to have a FB.VI get a modification to make it a bomber. It sounds more and more like a whole different aircraft. That said... good Collector Plane opportunity for the team perhaps!

7 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Bombs should be dropped down in the weeds...straight down the enemy’s throat - no bomb site needed. :)

 

That IS typically how I fly anyways 😄

 

4 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Who needs bombs at all if you've got 8 guns like the mosquito Fb VI

 

An excellent point!

 

1 minute ago, cardboard_killer said:

Or up to 14x .50cal like the A-26B?

 

That'd be amazing too! 😄

 

So many great possibilities.

 

Trying to route back on topic though... I do hope there can be ways found to make some medium bombers possible for the series. IF the research materials needed are available, a B-25, a B-26, an Ju188, and others would all be I suspect practical for the series in terms of gameplay and potential limitations while offering up bomber fans something of interest. The biggest problem seems to be time needed and if it would be a financial success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

 

Right. Based on that, it doesn't seem too practical then to have a FB.VI get a modification to make it a bomber. It sounds more and more like a whole different aircraft. That said... good Collector Plane opportunity for the team perhaps!

I'd buy. Probably never use it though, sometimes my brain writes cheques my attention span cannot cash 😄

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

It would be great to have a mk IV modification (the glazed nose version which could drop 4000lb bombs), but unfortunately I think it's unlikely; as far as I understand, a large proportion of the work involved in making a discrete plane in the sim is the cockpit modelling, so although the engines, 3d model and flight model are likely very similar, it would be far less simple than for example slapping a few gunpods on a stuka to make a different model, or providing the facility to clip the wings on a spit. 

Well if you have to go low to drop the bombs difference from the A20 life expectancy would be minimal. It cannot run from axis fighters above. And this would be another win on axis bomber capacity. 
It is not balanced when it come to bombers. 
But still we are getting a Mosquito. Woohooo 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Caudron431Rafale said:

Older games, well... the good old times when some onliner only simmers did not have the influence to ruin the reputation of a sim with constant forum complaining?

 

Of course it's all the SP offliners fault! It's really them we hear whining all day on sim forums.... lol

 

Seriously, i was more under the impression that the need for the AI to stop "cheating " originate from casual online coop players and online war aces that could not cope with the fact that they were shot down by "cheating" AI (because you know AI is easy to shoot down, however they cheat, go figure). At the same time they considered SP players as sub category of simmers and pushed the devs to consider only player vs player gameplay so that they could make it a e sport: the score board being so historically important...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd rather have good performance, more units and somewhat cheating but challenging AI than stuttering game with low threat nonchallenging AI.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first time I saw the B-25 I had the certainty that they would make it flyable. It looks great and has plenty of detail, there was no way they would just leave it like that. Now I'm not so sure based on how much work they committed to already, but I definitely hope it becomes playable. It looks like a ton of fun to fly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

The first time I saw the B-25 I had the certainty that they would make it flyable. It looks great and has plenty of detail, there was no way they would just leave it like that. Now I'm not so sure based on how much work they committed to already, but I definitely hope it becomes playable. It looks like a ton of fun to fly.

 

I've speculated that after Tank Crew is complete, the folks Digital Forms could be contracted to make the interior stations for B-25 and B-26. It's totally unsubstantiated speculation on my part but they do such good work with the tanks that maybe this is something that could happen.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, No.322_LuseKofte said:

Well if you have to go low to drop the bombs difference from the A20 life expectancy would be minimal. It cannot run from axis fighters above. And this would be another win on axis bomber capacity. 
It is not balanced when it come to bombers. 
But still we are getting a Mosquito. Woohooo 

If it handles anywhere near as well as the a20 it won't need to run from fighters. Those guns will be like the death star compared to the pea shooters on the a20.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

If it handles anywhere near as well as the a20 it won't need to run from fighters. Those guns will be like the death star compared to the pea shooters on the a20.

True. But I hardly ever survive since I always get attacked by more than one  if down low. Mosquito will have better view all round

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/27/2019 at 3:57 AM, SAG said:

I bought BON to support the devs, but i'm very dissapointed that they are only pleasing the fighter crowd on the allied side.

You are right    out of the box all sims are really single engine fighter heavy.

 

One fine day modders have to manage this problem (like in IL- 2 1946) 😏😂😁

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/24/2019 at 6:52 PM, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Who needs bombs at all if you've got 8 guns like the mosquito Fb VI

 

My initial thought, but spending a considerable time down low in a fast fighter shooting at ground target . This is not a life sustainable tactics. In order to have a brake from all that we still sit witha a obsolete *A 20 B with compared to the more agile JU 88 small bomb load

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/26/2019 at 10:28 PM, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Err, mosquito?

Ours is a fighter bomber, with machine guns and cannon where a bombardier/navigator would sit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/25/2019 at 3:52 AM, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

Who needs bombs at all if you've got 8 guns like the mosquito Fb VI

 

good luck trying to take out factories with your 8 guns. Medium and heavy bombing (especially heavy) is about more strategy ie. rather than compete head on 1000 fighters vs 1000 fighters, send bombers to blow up the factories/fuel dumps/ammo dumps/airfields/etc so that you end up with 1000 vs 500 fighters (because the other fighters can't fly due to shortage of everything basically). Thats what happened to the Luftwaffe at the end of WW2 when they were running out of fuel (and pilots). To damage industry you need bombs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/24/2019 at 1:00 PM, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

I'd buy. Probably never use it though, sometimes my brain writes cheques my attention span cannot cash 😄

Omg. Same. Very well put

Edited by Sublime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

 

good luck trying to take out factories with your 8 guns. Medium and heavy bombing (especially heavy) is about more strategy ie. rather than compete head on 1000 fighters vs 1000 fighters, send bombers to blow up the factories/fuel dumps/ammo dumps/airfields/etc so that you end up with 1000 vs 500 fighters (because the other fighters can't fly due to shortage of everything basically). Thats what happened to the Luftwaffe at the end of WW2 when they were running out of fuel (and pilots). To damage industry you need bombs. 

Yes, but I think strafing was still important too. What little supplies the Germans did have couldn't be moved without getting shot up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/8/2019 at 11:56 AM, Avimimus said:

 

German medium bombers = 2 (3 if the Bf-110 counts)

Russian medium bombers = 1

British medium bombers = 1

American medium bombers = 1 (+2 AI only)

 

So your argument equally works for people who want an Il-4... after-all, we have three Eastern theatres and no Il-4 (even if just for the AI)... and it was common in all of the theatres.

 

Not to mention the Tu-2 (relevant to Velikiye Luki, Kursk) & SB-2 (relevant to Moscow) or the heavy bombers etc.

 

The Russians really need a medium first. with the P-47, Typhoon, and P-38 right now I feel the USA ground pounding line up is very strong (i do admit they need a medium though) the Russians need the Il4. also, the A-26 is probably like others say before the plane people don't know they want. really fits the meta...6,000 pounds of bombs or rockets. and it's small, has a turret, nose guns. I'd like to see this aircraft before even the B-25 or B-26.  

 

but first priority is get the soviets something that can actually carry a lot of bombs onto target. the He-111 and Ju-88 have almost double the bang cans that the pe-2 can tote around. 

Edited by gimpy117

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, gimpy117 said:

The Russians really need a medium first. with the P-47, Typhoon, and P-38 right now I feel the USA ground pounding line up is very strong (i do admit they need a medium though) the Russians need the Il4. also, the A-26 is probably like others say before the plane people don't know they want. really fits the meta...6,000 pounds of bombs or rockets. and it's small, has a turret, nose guns. I'd like to see this aircraft before even the B-25 or B-26.  

 

but first priority is get the soviets something that can actually carry a lot of bombs onto target. the He-111 and Ju-88 have almost double the bang cans that the pe-2 can tote around. 

 

That's the beauty of them picking the B-25D. It saw relatively good service with the Soviet Union on the Eastern Front and so if we have to choose from just one medium bomber for the short or medium term... the B-25D is ideal given the number of uses.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys and your fancy 'Bomb sights' DIVE BOMB IN A HE 111 LIKE A REAL MAN.

 

But more seriously I'd wouldn't want heavy bombers necessarily as player controlled planes as the scales BoX operates on doesn't allow them to get to altitude in time nor have the numbers which Bomber boxes would require to be effective. I would want them as a spawn able thing and or event that comes into the map in a formation which the Germans must shoot down a % of before the formation reaches the target to bomb the factory (say like half or so...so maybe 15 out of 30 or 20 out of 40 planes) and if they can do that then the formation ditches it's bombs and retreats. This (hopefully) would allow for a lower level of detail to be put on and thus better PC performance. However I do support two engine planes coming in eventually once they have the code sorted out.

Edited by Southernbear
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Southernbear said:

You guys and your fancy 'Bomb sights' DIVE BOMB IN A HE 111 LIKE A REAL MAN.

 

But more seriously I'd wouldn't want heavy bombers necessarily as player controlled planes as the scales BoX operates on doesn't allow them to get to altitude in time nor have the numbers which Bomber boxes would require to be effective. I would want them as a spawn able thing and or event that comes into the map in a formation which the Germans must shoot down a % of before the formation reaches the target to bomb the factory (say like half or so...so maybe 15 out of 30 or 20 out of 40 planes) and if they can do that then the formation ditches it's bombs and retreats. This (hopefully) would allow for a lower level of detail to be put on and thus better PC performance. However I do support two engine planes coming in eventually once they have the code sorted out.

I used Heinkel as a dive bomber for soo long, was lazy to learn lvl bombing!

Survival rate was not good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

I used Heinkel as a dive bomber for soo long, was lazy to learn lvl bombing!

Survival rate was not good!

You should have dropped the bombs instead of transporting them into the target:crazy:

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...