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Discussion of the Battle of Normandy Announcement

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1 hour ago, SYN_Luftwaffles said:

Please trade the 109 and 190 for a Do217 or something. Sooooooo many 109s already. 

 

You know, some guys want all versions of Bf 109 possible. 😜

 

QF1Gn1K.jpg

 

 

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Different variants helps with immersion with career. Moreover, if you play multiplayer and it is set to a time frame and region, then it makes sense to fly the variant commonly used in that theater. 

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1 hour ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Personally, I don't think that there can ever be too many 109 variants.


I’m a 109 fanboy, but to be honest, I’m getting a bit bored of them. But the fact is that any flight sim set in Europe in WWII needs to have a 109 in it to be accurate.

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Happy Thanksgiving to all of us and stay healthy and have fun that's the most important in life

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3 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Everyone knock off the arguing. Some people aren't too crazy about Normandy, that's fine. As I said in the beginning keep it super civil please.

 

I'll address all these dev issue comments later after my Thanksgiving. Time to take a couple days off. Sales of Normandy are strong by our standards so all is OK and I'll never give up hope that I can make a Pacific product until the day I leave this company. But as of now, it's not possible. Sometimes you set a goal and you think you can will it into existence through pure moxie, enthusiasm and creativity, but then the universe says, hold my beer. Not making the Pacific is small potatoes to other trauma and drama I've had to deal with in my life and probably same goes for all of you too. Let's keep things in perspective and enjoy what we have.  

 

Jason

 

 

I feel like a massive, whiny ass now. And I apologise. 🙁

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15 minutes ago, IV./JG51-Lanze_vonHaltung said:

If you feel that badly about it, your penance should be to pre-order yourself (and me) a copy of BON :biggrin: 

 

Might get a gift card for christmas or somthing. We'll see. 😉

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1 hour ago, Motherbrain said:

 

 

I feel like a massive, whiny ass now. And I apologise. 🙁

We've all done it. I'm disappointed about not getting the PTO also, but Normandy was my second choice so I'm not too upset about it. In the end I think the Devs have made the best decision, Normandy is the most logical choice and will complement what we already have quite nicely.

 

From the looks of it Normandy is even more ambitious than Bodenplatte was and I think it will bring alot to the GB series.

I'm pretty confident we will get the Pacific one day. It was done in the past and it can be done again, it's just gonna take a little longer than we like.

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So I guess there will be more ground assets now too? Barrage balloons, landing ships, dukws and more german targets?We need some  new juicey targets for CAS missions for the typhoons and jugs. 

 

Will BoN bring new TC tanks as well, such as Churchills, firefly, Cromwells, panther G's, king tigers! along with some bocage action? Because that would be awesome

Edited by Tyberan

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4 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Everyone knock off the arguing. Some people aren't too crazy about Normandy, that's fine. As I said in the beginning keep it super civil please.

 

I'll address all these dev issue comments later after my Thanksgiving. Time to take a couple days off. Sales of Normandy are strong by our standards so all is OK and I'll never give up hope that I can make a Pacific product until the day I leave this company. But as of now, it's not possible. Sometimes you set a goal and you think you can will it into existence through pure moxie, enthusiasm and creativity, but then the universe says, hold my beer. Not making the Pacific is small potatoes to other trauma and drama I've had to deal with in my life and probably same goes for all of you too. Let's keep things in perspective and enjoy what we have.  

 

Jason

Thanks for clarification, makes thing somewhat easier when expetations are settled.

Clear and open  communication will always result in support and appreciation.

This really is nieche genre and would be shame it dies so full support is needed to keep it alive, everything beyond is a bonus.

I'll do my part on that!

I see it as PTO likely will never happen given the circumstances ,at least in close future as i understood cos of lack of data.

 

Leaves me with one question (if you could answer after deserved days off), are Med carrier ops possible, torpedo tech too or they are in same situation as PTO?

Basically any kind of naval ops?

 

Thank you!

 

 

Ante

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12 hours ago, kubanloewe said:

 

since i only fly Online....flyable for sure 😉

 

Don't forget, you belong to a small minority in this sim community.

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Thank you Devs, perfect decision! I'm very happy to see a Normandy scenario in this sim! 

All pilots of -HungersBunteBuehne- are on board!

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I look at DCS and what they are producing and the rate that it gets produced.... I look at IL2 BoX and it is staggering what they have done and how fast they produce QUALITY models for us to fly.

 

Yet people still complain.

 

A whole planeset costs the same as a single plane on DCS. Someone even commented that BoN is 10USD more than BoB and wanted justification.😖😬

 

We all want PTO, but as we all know it is just not possible at this stage. The current global economy sucks ballz so we are lucky just to get BoN and a team that is able to work on ANY kind of sim content. It's such a niche game that any kind of new plane is a blessing.

 

I sound like a fanboy yes ..... the game has many problems but they seem to be sorting them bit by bit with the odd bit of progress sometimes going backwards but as I said above, I'm just grateful we have a product that is dedicated to recreating ww1 and 2 planes and the worlds that they operated in. (The winter dawn scenes still blow my mind). 

 

Thanks DEV team....supporting as usual.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Everyone knock off the arguing. Some people aren't too crazy about Normandy, that's fine. As I said in the beginning keep it super civil please.

 

I'll address all these dev issue comments later after my Thanksgiving. Time to take a couple days off. Sales of Normandy are strong by our standards so all is OK and I'll never give up hope that I can make a Pacific product until the day I leave this company. But as of now, it's not possible. Sometimes you set a goal and you think you can will it into existence through pure moxie, enthusiasm and creativity, but then the universe says, hold my beer. Not making the Pacific is small potatoes to other trauma and drama I've had to deal with in my life and probably same goes for all of you too. Let's keep things in perspective and enjoy what we have.  

 

Jason

Clever guys amongst us already knew this engine cannot hold pacific setup. That is clear since even now the engine and netcode is crumbling and some have stutters in MP no matter the settings or the hardware. Large bombers or big bomber formation wasnt ever possible in this sim, to add.

NORMANDY WITHOUT THE B17 in a game which someone calls A SIM? Thats hillarious..

Currently Im unable to play this sim due to performance issues and I was always a supporter of this (small) genre.

Hovewer, it seams we reached the wall and the genre will slowly die (many reasons not just described above). Some will still play but that would not mean its alive.

I wish you luck with Normandy but I doubt it will sell well since its more or less Bodenplatte planes frames with weaker engines and guns and its practically same theater.....

Now Im closer than ever to end my 30 yrs long sim career, sell all my flight gear and kiss goodybe to virtual flying.

I cant get the optimism here after the latest announcement.

Salute

Edited by =VARP=Tvrdi
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@Dendro.

Indeed, development for DCS seems real slow compared to IL-2 GB (although we don't really know the technical? reasons for that) !

The price for BoN is indeed more than OK, and IMHO not only compared to DCS but most other gaming softwares as well.

IMHO IL-2 theatres deserve AAA game ratings much more than most FPS and RPGs that I know of and that also cost that same 70 USD.  

(BTW also the 70 USD I regularly pay for a DCS module is worth it to me since so much works goes into any single plane/heli)

@Tvrdi.

11 minutes ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Now Im closer than ever to end my 30 yrs long sim career, sell all my flight gear and kiss goodybe to virtual flying.

Even if IL-2 (BoN) is no longer to your liking, there is still WWII DCS, Microprose will be coming with a new sim, MS FS 2020 ...

I, personally, am pretty sure/convinced the IL-2 game engine will evolve and problems like you mentioned will get solved and we will get B-17, B-25, B-29 ... whatever flyable later on etc.

Keep the faith !?

Regards

Edited by simfan2015
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Right that's it... after reading Tvrdi's post I'm off to end it all. 

(Wait a minute, I can't... I still haven't finished Red Dead Redemption 2)  :cray:

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@simfan2015......I am afraid that reading Jason Williams post, problem is not technology (only) but Financial ..............so,......

 

If you like dogfight and no matter about what's happen on ground, no visual interest and just looking for plane power.....you can be happy with ....for others ..............😪

Edited by CCG_Pips
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I think the decision to create the map of Normandy has been a smart choice. This map of the English Channel will give a lot of play and is complementary to what they have already developed.

 

This development team deserves all our help and support so that we can continue to enjoy the best WWII simulator.

I, for example, can hardly fly on the last map of Germany since my equipment is old, but since I can do the Pre-purchase of Normandy even though I cannot fly it due to lack of power on my PC.

 

I hope that Santa Claus remembers me and brings me a new PC

 

Greetings to all, and as I do not enter much the forum MERRY CHRISTMAS FOR ALL. Do not be angry, that developers work hard so that many of us can enjoy hours and hours.

 

I think as Winston Churchill once said:
"Never in the field of human conflicts have so many (Virtual Pilots) owed so much to so few (Developers)"

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@CCG_Pips.

I have been in simming for most of my adult life.

However I still don't understand by what you mean ... happening on the ground, visual interest ???

Which (existing) sims have that 'power' ?

I know I loved Falcon 4 with a.o. the ground war ... but fail to see what, except that awesome DC engine of course, was so much better looking or more involving, more alive !?

What other sims are you thinking of and, if those gems do exist, then why are people still here ?

Maybe I am too new to IL-2, too old or maybe my concerns will grow in time but ... I sure hope that will not be the case.

 

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14 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

I know that plane… but did those Dorniers participate in the Battle of Normandy?

 

If not… well, we could add them regardless!! and even add the Graf Zeppelin to the battle!!

 

 

 

And after adding the Graf… what about adding an entire new set with plenty of aircraft carriers, like, for example… for example… Midway! Yes!

 

Sorry guys, this time the above was a joke...

 

Have fun in Normandy.

Awesome video. I didn't even realise that Germany even had an aircraft carrier, so thanks for the info. Beautiful model btw.

 

Mick. :)

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Presumably this is a what-if Battle of Normandy because IRL the Luftwaffe weren't a factor. Bearing in mind the predilection of on-line players for the German side we can look forward to hordes of AR-234s blasting the invasion beaches while a handful of Spitfires try in vain to catch them. :rolleyes:

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Il2 game engine was already updated to DX11 so they have worked on the engine so who's to say it won't continue. They have already fixed and advanced a lot and I am sure that as things evolve we will get better and better...... just look at the massive jump from IL2 1946 to CODover to WT to IL2 Great Battles and DCS. Now that VR is here and as it progresses I think things will get even more immersive. I cant wait for HD or 4k resolution in a VR headset!!

 

DCS is without a doubt a great product and the detail is boggling but in terms of visual detail and graphics  IL2 is better than DCS IMHO. The price is indeed more for a module but you get an entire set of beautifully replicated planes AND a new (detailed) map so I believe its better value. Most probably also because I play Il2 many more hours over DCS.

 

People can be pissed the Pacific is not announced but the reality this is a product that exists on a knife-edge. I am grateful there is any WW2 sim/game at all.

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10 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Omg. I just realized Amiens prison is likely to be on the map!  

Upon first seeing the Mossie and the map, that was one of my first thoughts as well.

8 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Not when we've finished with it, it won't. ;)

Steady on, I think they said in the briefing that the targets are the exterior wall and the guard quarters :P 

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23 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

@CCG_Pips.

I have been in simming for most of my adult life.

However I still don't understand by what you mean ... happening on the ground, visual interest ???

Which (existing) sims have that 'power' ?

I know I loved Falcon 4 with a.o. the ground war ... but fail to see what, except that awesome DC engine of course, was so much better looking or more involving, more alive !?

What other sims are you thinking of and, if those gems do exist, then why are people still here ?

Maybe I am too new to IL-2, too old or maybe my concerns will grow in time but ... I sure hope that will not be the case.

 

there are two point of view in a simulation game:

 

- only dogfighters

 

- or Campaign and online game (type TAW for example)

 

 

With my opinion and very old simmer experience, an Air War game (simmulation game) is:

 

-1/ planeset

That's mean a certain balance between fighters/ground attack planes and bombers or even transport planes (such as JU-52 or C-47)

-2/ visual effects (sky, light, clouds, ground)

-3/ gameplay must also includes ground or sea materials

 

So, regarding first point if we can be satisfied by fighters/fighters-bombers and ground attack planes until today (with Normandy map) the last part with bombers and transport planes is not satisfactory and have a clear backward from the annoucement of Kuban map and successives collector planes releases. At this time everything was good.....

Good balance between fighters and other type of planes. The JU-52 was a a definite advance in the gameplay. In a missions, some peoples were able to to fly on JU-52 for resupllying etc.., others for strafing and last ones for pure fighting.

 

Second point, visual effects : great updates for clear !!! but for me, Rheinland map is under kuban in term of quality. Big detailled cities of Rheinland map cannot hide the poor visual effect of the landscape. Those big cities put on the map and nothing else is not good. I should prefer a smaller map and more details on ground (more small cities or villages, farms etc.......as we have on Kuban map.

I prefer to do not speak about North sea shore, Netherlands peoples will understand!!!

 

last point about ground/sea materials....

Today, you can confirm that Rheinland map is up....ok ?   so if you want to make a campaign (TAW) ...what type of tanks, guns, trucks, half tracked vehicles do you have on Allies side?? ....Tell me ?  ....Nothing except the Sherman .....it is quite poor to fight Tigers and soon Panthers !!!

 

This is my point of view and critics .....

 

 

Edited by CCG_Pips

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So much drama... those guys are just being vocal. When the Razorbacks come they will be buying BON for sure. I love the REEEEEE! It's not the Pacific! I won't play!

 

Also I love the "but this graphics engine can't do that..." Well It wasn't able to render long distances and here we are. It wasn't able to render distant buildings and here we are. It wasn't able to fix the cloud bug and here we are, working on it. The Mirror and jet tech? Developed too. Oh c'mon if there is one thing that is sure is that the team does his best and always suprise working on the title.

 

By the way, Normandy theater:

 

Expands 4 years  Check

Brings more bombers or attackers to the planeset Check

It can be used with a lot of already existing aircraft Check

Has some of the most asked aircraft Check

 

 

Are you guys nuts? Normandy won't sell well? Well you can go back to other sims to enjoy the Normandy experience. Good luck.

 

 

PS: I Prefer Jason doesn't give a final statement. If it's possible in the future, just make it in the future. 

Edited by LF_Gallahad
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How is battle of Falaise pocket, the pinnacle of all allied efforts in Normandy, going to be done, when map doesn't include Falaise itself? Map should extend at least to Alençon to the south.....ahhh...and then Paris would have to be included in SE corner of the map....or map will have to be cut at Dieppe...🤔

 That way or another, there is no Battle of Normandy without Falaise pocket.

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Just now, Brano said:

How is battle of Falaise pocket, the pinnacle of all allied efforts in Normandy, going to be done, when map doesn't include Falaise itself? Map should extend at least to Alençon to the south.....ahhh...and then Paris would have to be included in SE corner of the map....or map will have to be cut at Dieppe...🤔

 That way or another, there is no Battle of Normandy without Falaise pocket.

Two versions of the map. One pre inavasion and another post invasion. Even the image says WIP.

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pretty happy to get more options for IL2 so will buy this once its nearer release of the first planes.

 

This is one of the few devs i trust to actually follow up on Early access-like content, so happy to throw cash in a little ahead of time. They have a good track record.

 

Would have loved Pacific theatre even more tho!  but i get why theyre going Normandy.

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14 minutes ago, LF_Gallahad said:

PS: I Prefer Jason doesn't give a final statement. If it's possible in the future, just make it in the future. 

 

Yep. There will be whining anyways. Time to move on, there is a game to be finished.

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Those that want to be dramatic can do so. Throw your toys etc but when those razorbacks and p51B's spawn next to you, you'll gladly buy the game and these little rants will be forgotten.

 

Onwards and upwards!

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3 minutes ago, =EXPEND=Dendro said:

when those razorbacks and p51B's spawn next to you, you'll gladly buy the game and these little rants will be forgotten.

 

Stupid Sexy P-51B

B.E.-Photo-credit-The-Friedkin-Group-DAY_002.jpg

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again @ CCG_Pips.

OK, I do understand and you made valid points ...

But there still is the questions about "the better sims" that would please you.

Which sim do you than consider 'sufficient' up till now, 2019 ?

Was there ever any sim/game that can meet or met your simming demands ?

I don't know of one ... surely not the DCS WII efforts and planeset(?) AFAIK.

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On 11/26/2019 at 2:33 PM, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Ultimately I have two wishes that go along with this update:

 

1- The allies need a flyable medium bomber. B-25 or B-26 need to be crewable. If not part of this update, then as collector's edition. C47 would be nice as well, but the lack of a western medium bomber is an issue.

 

2- I hope the P-47 receives some love as they do the razorback version. The DM in particular is extremely weak, the opposite of what it should be for this aircraft, especially the engine (which is significantly less robust than the merlins or allisons). Adding a 150 octane mod to both razorback and bubble canopy would also be helpful.

 

Otherwise, looking good!

 

I do concur with the above comments, which is not meant as a complaint at all. I'm happy with this next expansion of the Il-2 series. 

 

10 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

Everyone knock off the arguing. Some people aren't too crazy about Normandy, that's fine. As I said in the beginning keep it super civil please.

 

I'll address all these dev issue comments later after my Thanksgiving. Time to take a couple days off. Sales of Normandy are strong by our standards so all is OK and I'll never give up hope that I can make a Pacific product until the day I leave this company. But as of now, it's not possible. Sometimes you set a goal and you think you can will it into existence through pure moxie, enthusiasm and creativity, but then the universe says, hold my beer. Not making the Pacific is small potatoes to other trauma and drama I've had to deal with in my life and probably same goes for all of you too. Let's keep things in perspective and enjoy what we have.  

 

Jason

 

I just laid down the 80 bones ($US) for BON. I can't imagine how difficult it is to sell a project when risk must be mitigated in order to make a profit and BON is an appropriate compromise. Jason, please enjoy your Holiday, gather your thoughts, and then let us know what you're thinking. I'm on-board with this series for the long haul as it continues to offer a flightsim value, IMHO. 

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27 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

again @ CCG_Pips.

OK, I do understand and you made valid points ...

But there still is the questions about "the better sims" that would please you.

Which sim do you than consider 'sufficient' up till now, 2019 ?

Was there ever any sim/game that can meet or met your simming demands ?

I don't know of one ... surely not the DCS WII efforts and planeset(?) AFAIK.

 

@simfan2015

 

Simply, what we have now with IL-2 SERIE AND...........As for me, without asking impossible task

 

1/ A map quality as we had with Kuban.

Please check what we could see more than one year ago in some develope diaries about the Rheinland map and what we have now...

 

 

WIP SCREENSHOTS MORE THAN ONE YEAR AGO

image.thumb.jpeg.1172102dee5bf68fea9417f5b149fc2d.jpeg

 

image.thumb.jpeg.063412fd268f3181aa107a1406f0e68d.jpeg

 

ACTUAL SCREENSHOT OF WINTER MAP

mkuqa14o2yu0w1rzg.jpg

 

I far prefer what we seen one year ago😐

 

2/ at least an effort with some planes: B-25 and C-47 flyable and not IA

 

3/ More serious ground and sea materials: US Tank destroyers, British tanks, Allies Half tracked vehicles, Allies AA gun, Allies trucks, as soon as possible to complete the Rheinland map and Allies destroyers, cruisers, landing ships etc... for next Normandy map (I hope it is included in the project) and for Rheinland map some Allies cargo..

 

 

Edited by CCG_Pips

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You

1 hour ago, 3instein said:

Awesome video. I didn't even realise that Germany even had an aircraft carrier, so thanks for the info. Beautiful model btw.

 

Mick. :)

 

You're welcome 3instein.

 

The Graf Zeppelin never served: the ship spent the entire war time at dock. She was sunk as a target ship in 1947. A few 109 fighters were intended to be carrier-based naval aircraft (with an arrest hook and a few more necessary devices).

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1 hour ago, LF_Gallahad said:

Two versions of the map. One pre inavasion and another post invasion. Even the image says WIP.

 

That might just mean same area but different static details. Hopefully they can include Falaise somehow but I'm in regardless as BON seems like a solid plan to keep things going. Would like to see PTO at some point but what will be will be. 

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I'm stoked for the Normandy plan- love the map and aircraft set!  Looking forward to the razorback, 51B/C, AI B26 and Typhoon for the West- and the A6 and 410 for both fronts, for sure.  Pre-ordered BoN, the Hurri and Yak-9- excited to support this dev team in all it's amazing work!

 

Having been around the IL2 community for many years- I'm always amazed and saddened by the amount of negativity and complaining that goes on.  This is a business- a niche business at that.  It seems that a lot of folks have no understanding of the business environment, financial constraints and technical obstacles involved.  I get it- I'm over 50 years old and can be a bit of "get your frisbee off my lawn" guy- but the whining about not getting what you want for Christmas every time something new is presented is just so mind-numbing

 

I, too, look forward to the Pacific down the road if and when it's possible.  My wish list for BoX includes lots of other stuff as well- just like everyone else.  But on Thanksgiving Day here in the US I choose to say a hearty "Thank You!" to Jason and everyone on the team for working so hard to provide this awesome combat flight sim- it is amazing- and I will enjoy each part of it and support whatever path it takes going into the future.  Keep up the great work!!!

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Oh come on Jason! Thanksgiving?! You guys are double dipping! Russian and American holidays!? Back to work with you!

;)

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