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TheWarsimmer

Allied Fighter Tips

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Took the plunge into MP a couple weeks ago after being a single player guy for years in Il2. It took a bit, but I'm starting to feel halfway competent and love it.

 

I play every faction because I love the variety and helps me to understand the limits of the planes that I am facing, and I have noticed I have a MUCH tougher time playing allied fighters over luftwaffe. It's not the engine management, but the performance of the craft themselves. With a 109, it's simple. Climb at an absurd rate and then dive. Fight in the vertical. With your climbing abilities you should technically never lose... just keep your energy up and climb if you get in trouble.

 

With the allied craft, especially soviet, I feel screwed. I can't run away in a yak vs a 109, I can't climb to safety, and above 4k meters performance is lacking so luftwaffe can vulture at those altitudes. It's like they control the engagement and the only way you win is if they make themselves lose (which is how I feel playing luftwaffe- the engagement is on my terms).

 

With U.S. craft it is a bit better. The p38 climbs well, and the 51 and 38 both have speed and can dive. They still can't climb as well or match the acceleration though, and even if the 109 stiffens a tad in a dive compared to them, it doesnt seem to be a huge difference.

 

Perhaps it is just my playstyle, but I fight a lot better in a 109. I want to get better in the 38, 51, and yak. I can't really compete currently while flying them. Any tips?

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I"ve been too scared to MP myself, but from watchign videos the single best weapon seems to be good wing men. Working as a team makes any plane better than a single a/c.

50 minutes ago, TheWarsimmer said:

It's like they control the engagement and the only way you win is if they make themselves lose (which is how I feel playing luftwaffe- the engagement is on my terms).

 

 

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7 minutes ago, cardboard_killer said:

I"ve been too scared to MP myself, but from watchign videos the single best weapon seems to be good wing men. Working as a team makes any plane better than a single a/c.

 

 

 

Don't be. I was in the same boat as you. Just take the plunge and you will get addicted. I started off getting shot down like 8:1 so expect to get slaughtered at first, but after just a few weeks I am inching closer to 1:1 on WoL, and do a lot of ground pounding. It is a lot more fun than sp. Trust me.

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1 hour ago, cardboard_killer said:

I"ve been too scared to MP myself, but from watchign videos the single best weapon seems to be good wing men. Working as a team makes any plane better than a single a/c.

 

 

I would say that a good wingman is far more important than any other factor.

If you are atacking 2vs1 is an obvious advantage.

But even if equal or outnumbered, you can do wonders with a wingman.

Also it's specialy good for situational awareness.

 

You might not be able to out turn or out climb a particular oponent, but your wingman might not even need to!

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As mentioned in the 109 vs Ratas thread, there are tremendous manoeuvrability advantages to be made use of use of, so I think that’s the card you need to try play. I speak with no authority on this subject but you have to remember that the BF109 machines are hamstrung by extremely heavy controls at speeds soviet machines still retain good control authority (mig-3 ailerons the exception). The BF109 machines also have abysmal ailerons (with the exception of the E7), whereas the Lagg-3/La-5 machines boast double the roll rate, performing a full roll in 3 seconds, and even less for the La5FN which boasts incredible performance on the roll axis. 

 

Also... you can’t out-climb bullets; so to make use of altitude and come in with energy along with these tremendous manoeuvrability facets is not to be underestimated. Good luck!

 

Regards

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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17 minutes ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

As mentioned in the 109 vs Ratas thread, there are tremendous manoeuvrability advantages to be made use of use of, so I think that’s the card you need to try play. You have to remember that the BF109 machines are hamstrung by extremely heavy controls at speeds soviet machines still retain good control authority. The BF109 machines also have abysmal ailerons (with the exception of the E7), whereas the Lagg-3/La-5 machines boast double the roll rate, performing a full roll in 3 seconds, and even less for the La5FN which boasts incredible performance on the roll axis. 

 

Also... you can’t out-climb bullets; so to make use of altitude and come in with energy along with these tremendous manoeuvrability facets is not to be underestimated. Good luck!

 

Regards

Thanks for the info. I have had a little success trying to hang the prop with yaks when climbing with a 109 and getting some hits. Would you recommend taking the yak to something like 5k in search of lower prey or is it not worth it?

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Get on Battle of Stalingrad Team Speak server, you will find people flying both sides and you can join in and talk to real breathing people and team up and fly with them.  It's totally different world than SP...  Or join one of the squads and fly with them.

 

 

Battle of Stalingrad TeamSpeak server

Server IP: 108.61.114.3:9407
Password: bos2014
you won't regret it
 
Cheers
Hoss
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25 minutes ago, TheWarsimmer said:

Thanks for the info. I have had a little success trying to hang the prop with yaks when climbing with a 109 and getting some hits. Would you recommend taking the yak to something like 5k in search of lower prey or is it not worth it?

 

Yeah for sure, exactly that! To be honest that’s where the money’s at. Altitude, energy or whatever you want to call it is more important than the machine in most cases!  There are many folks who do that with great success, such as the likes of ripgrunwald, CountZero and co who fly Lagg-3 machines up high and come crashing down on folks with manoeuvrability to bear. 

 

Regards 

Edited by Bilbo_Baggins
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2 hours ago, Bilbo_Baggins said:

 

Yeah for sure, exactly that! To be honest that’s where the money’s at. Altitude, energy or whatever you want to call it is more important than the machine in most cases!  There are many folks who do that with great success, such as the likes of ripgrunwald, CountZero and co who fly Lagg-3 machines up high and come crashing down on folks with manoeuvrability to bear. 

 

Regards 

 

Yea they fly at like 7 or 8k in Lagg3 with only 23mm all HE. Lame exploit lol. And they love to disconnect when someone gets a jump on them. Hahahaha!

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How is choosing to fly at high alt, with an available weapons load out an exploit?

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43 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

How is choosing to fly at high alt, with an available weapons load out an exploit?

 

OFF TOPIC:

It's not, and it is the safest way to fly the Lagg3 vs better opponents. Plus the 23mm (Axis players, you may groan now) is very, very nice.

 

But some players do take it too far, disconnecting to save their Virtual Lives and generally being bad sports. 

And then there are those who fuss just because you prepared for a fight, anywho there's always gonna be someone finding a reason to whine. And they're often the people doing the less chivalrous things too. Perceived agressions and all that. Just treat your opponent fairly and see how you go.

 

ON TOPIC:

 

(Personal opinions follow)

 

Firstly, allied covers Ruskie, US and British, each of these countries follow different design methodologies.

Ruskies fly light, lower powered, worse climbers. They are agile. They are very good at defense, as they can easily jink out of the way.

They are also great at maintaining energy throughout the turn. For Yak1: Turn turn turn! For Lagg3: Roll vs 109s, turn vs 190s - go for snapshots. La5 is like a 109, 190 and Lagg3 had a bastard child. Love that thing.

 

Germans have the 109, the uber climbing machine. You sound like you have that down.

and the 190 is a falcon, keep the speed high, don't get caught in the midst of the furball. Pick off stragglers on the outside. If situation gets untenable, dive out. You can always scream along the deck and pick off anybody at the bottom of the fight too, then just keep going out the other side.

 

Britain has the spitty mk IX, even better climbing than the K4. Great at turning. Destroys 190s when using clipped wings + 150oct. Low alt king.

The Tempest is fast as... ya know. Turns well and brings a helluva lot of fire. Think of it as a faster but heavier spitty.

 

USA I haven't quite figured out. The P51 is friggin FAST and the .50cals mean you can really just spray. Not quite there on turning, though it seems to keep energy better than the 109.

P38 is really impressive at high speeds, those nose guns are a joy. Not a great climber though so take care with your energy. Rolls best at high speeds too, keep the speed up! Use it like a 190 except you can actually turn. 

P47 just ain't for me, will try it out at some point.

 

 

 

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On 11/25/2019 at 5:33 AM, peregrine7 said:

USA I haven't quite figured out. The P51 is friggin FAST and the .50cals mean you can really just spray. Not quite there on turning, though it seems to keep energy better than the 109.

P38 is really impressive at high speeds, those nose guns are a joy. Not a great climber though so take care with your energy. Rolls best at high speeds too, keep the speed up! Use it like a 190 except you can actually turn. 

P47 just ain't for me, will try it out at some point.

Flying P51 is rather simple, stay high, stay fast and abuse your high G tolerance compared to German airmen. I managed to get on tails of many Doras and K4s just because thay didnt think about the G load ahead and overcommited into their turn.

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Well after some more playtime what is working for me is altitude and dive. Forget that nonsense about staying low in yaks. 5k meters, find a target and dive. Just like 109s. You keep better control in the dive and can turn to stay on their tail. If they try to scissor or slow it down and you overshoot, pull up and deploy those flaps and you will use that maneuverability to stay behind them. I was always afraid to take them high and that's nonsense and just puts you at a huge disadvantage.

 

As far as U.S. fighters, p38 seems to work best imo. Great climber, can deploy the dive brake if you get in trouble with a dive, and the cannon works great to shred on bnz.

Edited by TheWarsimmer
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My one encounter online as a target for Scharfi I was saved by a random other flyer* who shot her down. (After she mauled me and I xrashed trying to land)

 

(Well she said "that rat who saved you" lol)

On 11/24/2019 at 11:33 PM, peregrine7 said:

 

OFF TOPIC:

It's not, and it is the safest way to fly the Lagg3 vs better opponents. Plus the 23mm (Axis players, you may groan now) is very, very nice.

 

But some players do take it too far, disconnecting to save their Virtual Lives and generally being bad sports. 

And then there are those who fuss just because you prepared for a fight, anywho there's always gonna be someone finding a reason to whine. And they're often the people doing the less chivalrous things too. Perceived agressions and all that. Just treat your opponent fairly and see how you go.

 

ON TOPIC:

 

(Personal opinions follow)

 

Firstly, allied covers Ruskie, US and British, each of these countries follow different design methodologies.

Ruskies fly light, lower powered, worse climbers. They are agile. They are very good at defense, as they can easily jink out of the way.

They are also great at maintaining energy throughout the turn. For Yak1: Turn turn turn! For Lagg3: Roll vs 109s, turn vs 190s - go for snapshots. La5 is like a 109, 190 and Lagg3 had a bastard child. Love that thing.

 

Germans have the 109, the uber climbing machine. You sound like you have that down.

and the 190 is a falcon, keep the speed high, don't get caught in the midst of the furball. Pick off stragglers on the outside. If situation gets untenable, dive out. You can always scream along the deck and pick off anybody at the bottom of the fight too, then just keep going out the other side.

 

Britain has the spitty mk IX, even better climbing than the K4. Great at turning. Destroys 190s when using clipped wings + 150oct. Low alt king.

The Tempest is fast as... ya know. Turns well and brings a helluva lot of fire. Think of it as a faster but heavier spitty.

 

USA I haven't quite figured out. The P51 is friggin FAST and the .50cals mean you can really just spray. Not quite there on turning, though it seems to keep energy better than the 109.

P38 is really impressive at high speeds, those nose guns are a joy. Not a great climber though so take care with your energy. Rolls best at high speeds too, keep the speed up! Use it like a 190 except you can actually turn. 

P47 just ain't for me, will try it out at some point.

 

 

 

Idk Id disagree about the p38 climbing. Shes fantastic at it.. my most common defensice move in her is a climbing spiral. Noone stays with it

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On 11/25/2019 at 5:20 AM, Ein_Feindlicher_Flieger said:

And they love to disconnect when someone gets a jump on them.

 

Looking at WoL stats:

November: Count has over 30 hours of flight time, 2 disconnects. Rip has 26 hours of flight time, 0 disconnects.

October: Count has 1 disconnect, Rip has 0 disconnects.

September: Count 0 disconnects, Rip 0 disconnects.

August: Count 2 disconnects, Rip 1 disconnect (both over 60 hours of flight time).

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44 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

Looking at WoL stats:

November: Count has over 30 hours of flight time, 2 disconnects. Rip has 26 hours of flight time, 0 disconnects.

October: Count has 1 disconnect, Rip has 0 disconnects.

September: Count 0 disconnects, Rip 0 disconnects.

August: Count 2 disconnects, Rip 1 disconnect (both over 60 hours of flight time).

 

Quick jump on defense. I had it on video a couple times but it's long gone. I hunt them when I'm on WoL so pay special attention to their tactics. You don't get jumped often when you come down from 8K, spray a quick burst hoping the 23 makes contact and then splitting for home; but when you do, you can't risk that 70 kill streak so you just disconnect real quick. Hahaha.

On 11/24/2019 at 8:35 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

How is choosing to fly at high alt, with an available weapons load out an exploit?

 

I can see Lagg3 with 23mm being a thing in very early maps. Like summer 1941 early. After that, it almost didn't exist in the air with the 23mm. They quickly switched to the 20mm because the 23mm had many problems with jamming. It's funny though because the Germans rarely had a G6 in the air with MK108 before spring of 1944 and guess what is restricted on all 1943 maps for the sake of "historical accuracy"? G6 with Mk108. But guess what isn't restricted in post-41 maps even though it should be for the same reason the MK108 is not available in 43? Lagg3 with 23mm. It's an exploit flying Lagg at 8k with 23mm and all HE, especially after autumn 41; plain and simple.

Edited by Ein_Feindlicher_Flieger

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10 minutes ago, Ein_Feindlicher_Flieger said:

Quick jump on defense. I had it on video a couple times but it's long gone.

 

There is a famous saying "In God we trust, all others must bring data". I showed you data from WoL stats website and at the moment I consider that data superior to your "long gone video".

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6 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

There is a famous saying "In God we trust, all others must bring data". I showed you data from WoL stats website and at the moment I consider that data superior to your "long gone video".

 

It's all good. I'm not really concerned about it anymore as I have ceased to play on WoL and unfortunately the 77 crew doesn't get on the Western front servers. At least not as far as I've seen. Maybe it's because there is no one hit kill gun 23mm equivalent on the Western planes? Although I think the Tempest does a good job killing stuff with a short burst.

Edited by Ein_Feindlicher_Flieger

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there is a guy named III.JG7-MarkWilhelmsson on combat box who flies exactly like count zero and ripgrunwald.  he flies around at 8k picking people off with the mk108.  runs away if anyone gets within 10 miles of him.  ive seen him disco a time or two as well.  I wonder if he learned those tactics from the count and ripgrunwald?  maybe you should check with him and see what he thinks about it.

 

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lol when did i or ripgrunwald disconected when someone was behined us or shoot at us ? usealy you get on my 6 you shoot me down same for rip, we dont disco when we make mistake, we try to stay alive by chosing how and when to attack if we make mistake we get shoot down.  This year on WoL 800+ sorties each 5-6 disconects, not any when someone is shoting at us or damaging us.

12 hours ago, Ein_Feindlicher_Flieger said:

 

Quick jump on defense. I had it on video a couple times but it's long gone. I hunt them when I'm on WoL so pay special attention to their tactics. You don't get jumped often when you come down from 8K, spray a quick burst hoping the 23 makes contact and then splitting for home; but when you do, you can't risk that 70 kill streak so you just disconnect real quick. Hahaha.

 

I can see Lagg3 with 23mm being a thing in very early maps. Like summer 1941 early. After that, it almost didn't exist in the air with the 23mm. They quickly switched to the 20mm because the 23mm had many problems with jamming. It's funny though because the Germans rarely had a G6 in the air with MK108 before spring of 1944 and guess what is restricted on all 1943 maps for the sake of "historical accuracy"? G6 with Mk108. But guess what isn't restricted in post-41 maps even though it should be for the same reason the MK108 is not available in 43? Lagg3 with 23mm. It's an exploit flying Lagg at 8k with 23mm and all HE, especially after autumn 41; plain and simple.

Show me video or replay , your full of BS, and you lose your streak when you disconect, so whats the point of doing it when you can bail out and keep streak, you aint the brightest bulb aint you lol

EDIT:

nice nick change, i see your III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson , so no suprise your full of crap

 

Edited by 77.CountZero

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count zero, just so you know, I did not intend to offend you or ripgrunwald.  you are both respectable pilots in my opinion.

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11 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

lol when did i or ripgrunwald disconected when someone was behined us or shoot at us ? usealy you get on my 6 you shoot me down same for rip, we dont disco when we make mistake, we try to stay alive by chosing how and when to attack if we make mistake we get shoot down.  This year on WoL 800+ sorties each 5-6 disconects, not any when someone is shoting at us or damaging us.

Show me video or replay , your full of BS, and you lose your streak when you disconect, so whats the point of doing it when you can bail out and keep streak, you aint the brightest bulb aint you lol

EDIT:

nice nick change, i see your III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson , so no suprise your full of crap

 

 

I changed my nickname over a week ago, wasn't trying to conceal it for this post. 

 

I can't post the videos because they were from before an update which rendered all recordings from previous versions corrupted. 

 

Maybe you don't disconnect every time, it's just happened to me more than once with one of you so I felt it was on purpose. If not, good to know.

 

Looking back I feel like I was perhaps being a little too harsh on you, so please accept my apology. 

12 hours ago, CIA_Luth said:

there is a guy named III.JG7-MarkWilhelmsson on combat box who flies exactly like count zero and ripgrunwald.  he flies around at 8k picking people off with the mk108.  runs away if anyone gets within 10 miles of him.  ive seen him disco a time or two as well.  I wonder if he learned those tactics from the count and ripgrunwald?  maybe you should check with him and see what he thinks about it.

 

 

Hey that's me! I fly an A8, I don't think I've ever been able to get it to 8k. 7k is pretty much the highest I can get it without having to putter around at 250kph indicated. The other day I climbed up to almost 8k specifically to counter Elanski and Dogface who were in Mustangs up there but they had a huge advantage over me obviously. We had a good fight which eventually ended up on the deck. I never ran, I evaded until they broke off. Have the recordings of it as well I believe. 

 

My only disconnect this month was a connection issue. Tried to join back in again but kept getting kicked for high ping for about 5-6 minutes straight. 

 

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9 hours ago, CIA_Luth said:

count zero, just so you know, I did not intend to offend you or ripgrunwald.  you are both respectable pilots in my opinion.

 

Thanks i missunderstod your post

 

22 minutes ago, Ein_Feindlicher_Flieger said:

 

I changed my nickname over a week ago, wasn't trying to conceal it for this post. 

 

I can't post the videos because they were from before an update which rendered all recordings from previous versions corrupted. 

 

Maybe you don't disconnect every time, it's just happened to me more than once with one of you so I felt it was on purpose. If not, good to know.

 

Looking back I feel like I was perhaps being a little too harsh on you, so please accept my apology. 

 

Hey that's me! I fly an A8, I don't think I've ever been able to get it to 8k. 7k is pretty much the highest I can get it without having to putter around at 250kph indicated. The other day I climbed up to almost 8k specifically to counter Elanski and Dogface who were in Mustangs up there but they had a huge advantage over me obviously. We had a good fight which eventually ended up on the deck. I never ran, I evaded until they broke off. Have the recordings of it as well I believe. 

 

My only disconnect this month was a connection issue. Tried to join back in again but kept getting kicked for high ping for about 5-6 minutes straight. 

 

 

Would realy like to see that reaply, wonder why you didnt post it if your so sure it was intentional disconection, how far were you...

Also why would any of us disconect and lose streak and points, if we can just bail out and not lose anything ??? heck even if we are over enemy side you still have more then 50% chance of not getting captured by stats system and not lose anything compared to 100% lost of streak when disconecting.

If guy disconects when im on his 6 and shooting on him i report him to admins of server as thats most probably intentional disconect, for others i know they happend randomly, i can say same for you you have what 10 disco this year in 300-400 sorties on wol, thats double of disconects in half sorties i have so it must mean your disconecting like crazy compared to me, and i see no damage done to you in that sorties or anyone reporting that you disconected when he was exactly on your six, but heck lets just say your frequent disconecter anyway without any proof of it, why not ?

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5 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

Thanks i missunderstod your post

 

 

Would realy like to see that reaply, wonder why you didnt post it if your so sure it was intentional disconection, how far were you...

Also why would any of us disconect and lose streak and points, if we can just bail out and not lose anything ??? heck even if we are over enemy side you still have more then 50% chance of not getting captured by stats system and not lose anything compared to 100% lost of streak when disconecting.

If guy disconects when im on his 6 and shooting on him i report him to admins of server as thats most probably intentional disconect, for others i know they happend randomly, i can say same for you you have what 10 disco this year in 300-400 sorties on wol, thats double of disconects in half sorties i have so it must mean your disconecting like crazy compared to me, and i see no damage done to you in that sorties or anyone reporting that you disconected when he was exactly on your six, but heck lets just say your frequent disconecter anyway without any proof of it, why not ?

 

I think that perhaps you didn't perceive that in my last post I was offering an apology for jumping on you too quickly regarding disconnects. I take your word for it that you do not do it on purpose. I had just assumed it was because I saw it a few times when I was coming in on you. But maybe some people have thought that I disconnect on purpose too because I lose connection when they are coming up behind me? 

 

I believe disconnect on purpose to avoid death by enemy is cheating, so I would never do it. 

 

One month I had probably 6, 7, or maybe more disconnects; it was during a stay in Michigan for work where I had horrific connection in my hotel.

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22 hours ago, Ein_Feindlicher_Flieger said:

 

I think that perhaps you didn't perceive that in my last post I was offering an apology for jumping on you too quickly regarding disconnects. I take your word for it that you do not do it on purpose. I had just assumed it was because I saw it a few times when I was coming in on you. But maybe some people have thought that I disconnect on purpose too because I lose connection when they are coming up behind me? 

 

I believe disconnect on purpose to avoid death by enemy is cheating, so I would never do it. 

 

One month I had probably 6, 7, or maybe more disconnects; it was during a stay in Michigan for work where I had horrific connection in my hotel.

"One month I had probably 6, 7, or maybe more disconnects; it was during a stay in Michigan for work where I had horrific connection in my hotel."

 

I have ceased to play on WoL and unfortunately the 77 crew doesn't get on the Western front servers. At least not as far as I've seen. Maybe it's because there is no one hit kill gun 23mm equivalent on the Western planes? Although I think the Tempest does a good job killing stuff with a short burst."

 

2+2 and youll maybe fuiger out why we see no need to play on server with wors pings for us then we have on WoL, especialy when WoL still have more ppl on it when we play. nobody likes random diconects and after devs fixednet code in begining of year we are pleased with what we got from it on WoL , disconects got cut 3 times, and devs got revorded by both of us buying BoK that we had no interest in it.

 

 

As to the OP question, as our tactics are somehow questioned here in this topic:

 

So your in situation where when you play wth vvs fighters where your constantly beaing BnZ by higher axis. Your airplanes operate best at low alts while their at medium high ones.

So you can just keep flying on 1-3km and get BnZ by enemy that is at 4-5km and that never bathers to look up or you can climb to 6-7km and make them look up, and they maybe miss few of your vvs frends low then, as now they have to pay their atention also on thouse pesky russkys flying at higher alts. 

 

How dear they use our tactics ugenst us, blody cheters flying slow ass bad performing lagg3 at high alts, where axis can easy outmanover them, out pace them out what ever to them, and only chance lagg3 have vs us is suprise and one pass. But its cheeting they say, as they should just fly at 1-3km like other vvs and let us BnZ them, thats how its done on the east vvs is target we are pray not other way around, if only we could have also magic armor that protect us from one lucky 23mm hits also, as with our good high alt performance airplanes we have to fight poor low lat lagg3 up high, its juts to unfair lordy.

 

Now if all vvs would do this they would lose every mission like axis do when all their fighters do this, as no one covers bombers, so there is need for low flying vvs fighters and high flying ones, as then axis cant just sit at 5km bnz in peace, they have to look up from time to time... and call lagg3 cheat airplane even though their airplanes at high alts outperform it with huge margines. Why lagg3 with 23mm, as its perfect 190 for vvs, highest dive speed for vvs fighter, big punch with gun, good roll. So you bnz with it and maybe run away as anything axis have is faster so its not as you can do with 190s as its like poor mans 190, but even that is unfair for axis and cheet as your using their tactics vs them so its just not fair... they only have 109f4s and 190a3s and numerical advantages in players online what can they dooooooooo 

Edited by 77.CountZero
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