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Fokkxor

Why not more COOP Servers/Missions?

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I created a similar thread on the steam forums. I just wanted to come here, i was not logged in here since late 2014, and ask why after all this time there is sill so little coop available?

When i go into the cooperative server sections i see 3 servers(lol), 2 of them are empty and also locked, and the 3rd is just empty. When i join the one open empty server the mission does not start, i can not select a plane, only read the briefing.

 

Dont get me wrong i like the game, i buy it in 2014 more or less right after it came out. I just think the game could be more healthy/have more people online with a more "casual"(not arcade!) coop experience available. Coop was big in IL2 sturmovik, coop IS big in DCS, there are many servers and even filled in the odd hours, i venture the guess it has more filled coop servers than pvp only servers.

In IL2 BOS there is none of that and the game miss out quiet a big crowd that would play more online if it would have an alternative to the PVP servers, where you can just relax and fly with friends or solo and have simple good fun, now you only have the more or less "hardcore" PVP option where you have to be on your toes all the time watching for players all around you.

That is exciting and fun once in a while but many, including me would like a more relaxed option alongside that. When i am fed up with PVP just hop on a coop server and fly stuka doing ground attack or whatever i feel like, without(!) the need to be competitive all the time.

 

Does nobody of you play DCS once in a while? You know the great coop missions that have been created for it, you can do what you want, play fighter and/or do ground attack everythig is usefull, and when you damaged or need new ammo you can land, repair/rearm/refuel and go back up into the air, that got a seamless feeling to it, like "not" artificial, these are great fun missions.

If this game could achive something similar i think the multiplayer would have more people online, they in turn may come into PVP more often too. In my view the single player in this game is not the greatest, sooner or later you will want to fly online, but as said the only option it a quiet stressfull PVP environment, i think that limits the amount of people that take the plunge and go into a multiplayer server.

 

Is it true that the way the AI works in the game the servers can not handle many AI´s? When you spawn missions on demand, like 2-3 ground attack missions witch changing location on the map,  few flights of fighters with 1 to 4 fighters each, the same with enemy ground attack planes. And when the players shot them down or killed the ground units, a new mission/AI gets spawned at a new location. With a system like that you should be able to make do with 50 to 100 AI at any give time, is this too much for a server to handle in this game?

 

 

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It has been my great privilege to be the first (of with a bit of luck many) to upvote this post.

 

Jason? Han? Can someone please give us hope that coops will be made into a seamless online experience?

 

Like a lot of others, I haven't been able to get coops working, so currently stuck with the general multiplayer experience, flying with a buddy which is great, but the general one-pattern environment is starting to wear a bit thin.

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We fly 4 COOPs 2 times a week. I've built over 150 COOP missions and they work(ed) pretty much flawless. I think the only real problem is the COOP Lobby as well es no possibility to chat with everyone inside the lobby like it used to be in HL. 

You actually dont know if COOPs are ongoing, you cant promote your starting COOP mission, you dont know when anything will happen and if anything will happen, youre actually sitting in complete dark, if not connected via ts. 

Rebuild HL, as simple as it is.

Edited by HBB*Hunger
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10 minutes ago, HBB*Hunger said:

We fly 4 COOPs 2 times a week. I've built over 150 COOP missions and they work(ed) pretty much flawless. I think the only real problem is the COOP Lobby as well es no possibility to chat with everyone inside the lobby like it used to be in HL. 

 

 

Well I must admit to possibly having misread the issue the OP is having. For me it's actually getting coops working. My buddy and I were able to connect - after doing port forwarding stuff - but we couldn't see each other's plane, at which point we just ended up in general MP. If other games can make coops a smooth experience without hoops to go through like port-forwarding and surprises like invisible planes, I'm sure the champs at 777 can too. Anyway, maybe I'm unintentionally off topic here.

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14 minutes ago, FlyingNutcase said:

 

Well I must admit to possibly having misread the issue the OP is having. For me it's actually getting coops working. My buddy and I were able to connect - after doing port forwarding stuff - but we couldn't see each other's plane, at which point we just ended up in general MP. If other games can make coops a smooth experience without hoops to go through like port-forwarding and surprises like invisible planes, I'm sure the champs at 777 can too. Anyway, maybe I'm unintentionally off topic here.

 

Never had this problem, not once until the COOP mode was released. Have you post your issue to the Editor forum here?

 

 

Edited by HBB*Hunger

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The actual coop function of the game works really well - once you've got over the port-forwarding hurdle - but without a lobby of sorts casual coops that were a big part of IL2 1946 and Hyperlobby are extremely difficult to arrange.

 

If you're in a squad and meet up at the appropriate time with t/s then you can enjoy this;

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, HBB*Hunger said:

 

Never had this problem, not once until the COOP mode was released. Have you post your issue to the Editor forum here?

 

 

I did, with the suggestion to try a coop in Rise of Flight which I never followed up on. Time to make that happen - this weekend. 🙂

 

PS Love the vid!

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After ROF got DM , COOP were dead there, now  ported without redesign  to IL2 GB they become dead as well. Dead or used sporadic.  It was very strange thing to me because they know how it ended in ROF and for so little use (given same design) was worth ?

 

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I host coops for the BlitzPigs every weekend.  It's not difficult at all.  For me the real question is, why is multiplayer overall such a moribund scene?  For a sim as mature in years as this one is now, the multiplayer participation is frankly embarrassing.  A handful of servers, mostly empty.  Why?

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FYI: for awhile now PWCG has offered the ability to create and host coop campaigns.  Not only can you fly cooperative (same side, same squadron) you can also fly competitive (any side, any squadron).  

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16 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

[...] why is multiplayer overall such a moribund scene?  For a sim as mature in years as this one is now, the multiplayer participation is frankly embarrassing.  A handful of servers, mostly empty.  Why?

In my case, I rarely play MP not because its not great overall, but because I find it frustrating to come back home after work just to get shot down by PROs in MP after flying 10 minutes to cover some Ju88's or attack some Pe2's. Yeah its cool to learn playing against 'the good ones', but I dont have that much time for that. And in weekends, I play other things or go outside or do whatever thing I need to, and decide to play IL2 just few minutes, a pair of QMBs or maybe a mission in a Scripted Campaign.

Just to give an example, I can play Counter Strike Source 10 minutes in a MP server, log in, kill and die few times and press exit and everything gonna be fine. I wouldn't feel good trying to do the same in this game (joining MP just few minutes, in which I cant so anything more than maybe reach a Pe2 attacking ground units).

Just how I feel it, of course

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Didnt have any problems hosting or playiong coops here.

I dont understand why they split coop and dogfight , they should be together on list of servers (servers should display mission info windows like in rof, when you hover over it to know realisam settings, and you could know there if its coop or DF).

Also some kined of lobby would help where you could have chat and see whos online.

Dinamic wars in coop would help, i have no interest in playing dinamic online wars in DF mode where its 24/7 and no organisation, and what you did one time can be nullified by someone playing on empty server , no balance, so no point in taking it serious. But when its coop and missions are hosted at specific times and you have that one airplane, and all have same chance then its worth wile and its taken seriously.

 

24 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

In my case, I rarely play MP not because its not great overall, but because I find it frustrating to come back home after work just to get shot down by PROs in MP after flying 10 minutes to cover some Ju88's or attack some Pe2's. Yeah its cool to learn playing against 'the good ones', but I dont have that much time for that. And in weekends, I play other things or go outside or do whatever thing I need to, and decide to play IL2 just few minutes, a pair of QMBs or maybe a mission in a Scripted Campaign.

Just to give an example, I can play Counter Strike Source 10 minutes in a MP server, log in, kill and die few times and press exit and everything gonna be fine. I wouldn't feel good trying to do the same in this game (joining MP just few minutes, in which I cant so anything more than maybe reach a Pe2 attacking ground units).

Just how I feel it, of course

 

Thats why you can try some coop or servers with icons first, no point in trying servers where you cant see anything, when i started to play online in il-2 1946 i played only on servers with icons and coops and only later servers without icons, but in 1946 you had more options for icons, here its full arcade or full sim, no middle ground so no good expiriance for players in middle.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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We do not fly COOPs with my buddies too much as I've created DF missions with AI activity and objectives... Practically you are flying in COOP mission with buddies, but you can spawn again if something bad happens. Of course there are restrictions (formations for example) but you can get quite good impression of formations with careful spawning of AI's.

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2 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

I dont understand why they split coop and dogfight , they should be together on list of servers (servers should display mission info windows like in rof, when you hover over it to know realisam settings, and you could know there if its coop or DF).

 

 

Coop allows for specific detailed mission generation with a set number of participant, all joining at the same time.  It runs like a single player mission, just with more players. Flights can be generated with predefined routes and mission assignments.  Because Coop is driven by the same mission files as single player you can have all of the controls that SP has.   PWCG coop depends on this, as do other hand made coop missions (scripted coop campaigns, etc.). 

 

Dogfight mode is more typical, open multiplayer.  Anybody joins (password protection being an obvious limiter) at any time.  Organization can be more in the moment.

 

Each has advantages.  I think it would be pretty difficult to create a single package that incorporates all of the advantages without losing something.

 

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1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Coop allows for specific detailed mission generation with a set number of participant, all joining at the same time.  It runs like a single player mission, just with more players. Flights can be generated with predefined routes and mission assignments.  Because Coop is driven by the same mission files as single player you can have all of the controls that SP has.   PWCG coop depends on this, as do other hand made coop missions (scripted coop campaigns, etc.). 

 

Dogfight mode is more typical, open multiplayer.  Anybody joins (password protection being an obvious limiter) at any time.  Organization can be more in the moment.

 

Each has advantages.  I think it would be pretty difficult to create a single package that incorporates all of the advantages without losing something.

 

 

I know that i played many coops in il-2 1946, im questioning their decision to split coop and dogfight servers in multiplayer in game.

pic:

mp.thumb.jpg.8369f7b1fc6e9244b7110763b7eb00b8.jpg

 

In 1946 in HL you could see all servers at same place, so i was in mood for some coop but i see nothing interesting so i join DF server, i get out and i see oh mike is gona host coop in 5min i like i join him on coop server, with them spliting that in two i dont ever see who is hosting interesting coop if i exit df server, now days i dont even bather to check coop section i just go in DF. So them spliting this in two is also reason why you aint gona get new players in coop, they will try DF , be just nothing more then target there for veterans to farm kills, and then quit MP. Coop is more frendly for new players as its so similar to SP, but most will never try it as they will never see coop server as they automaticly go in dogfight section in multiplayer, and squad coops are usealy locked.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Its a simple answer really, the bulk of the crowd with this game is more in to Air quake and measuring the size of virtual joystick of favorite plane.

 

  This game has huge coop potential especially with the Tank crew which is beyond awesome.  Hopefully The E sport fad dies and realistic coop missions come about.

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As already said, I'm pretty sure a UI like HL with the ability to actually communicate and see all online players would be the solution.

Imagine I could actively invite players to my coop, imagine players could actually see when the coop is going to start. I just remember all the coops hostet by I/KG26 years ago and how I was sitting there, waiting for the Server to pop up. 

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13 hours ago, Fokkxor said:

I created a similar thread on the steam forums. I just wanted to come here, i was not logged in here since late 2014, and ask why after all this time there is sill so little coop available?

When i go into the cooperative server sections i see 3 servers(lol), 2 of them are empty and also locked, and the 3rd is just empty. When i join the one open empty server the mission does not start, i can not select a plane, only read the briefing.

 

Dont get me wrong i like the game, i buy it in 2014 more or less right after it came out. I just think the game could be more healthy/have more people online with a more "casual"(not arcade!) coop experience available. Coop was big in IL2 sturmovik, coop IS big in DCS, there are many servers and even filled in the odd hours, i venture the guess it has more filled coop servers than pvp only servers.

In IL2 BOS there is none of that and the game miss out quiet a big crowd that would play more online if it would have an alternative to the PVP servers, where you can just relax and fly with friends or solo and have simple good fun, now you only have the more or less "hardcore" PVP option where you have to be on your toes all the time watching for players all around you.

That is exciting and fun once in a while but many, including me would like a more relaxed option alongside that. When i am fed up with PVP just hop on a coop server and fly stuka doing ground attack or whatever i feel like, without(!) the need to be competitive all the time.

 

Does nobody of you play DCS once in a while? You know the great coop missions that have been created for it, you can do what you want, play fighter and/or do ground attack everythig is usefull, and when you damaged or need new ammo you can land, repair/rearm/refuel and go back up into the air, that got a seamless feeling to it, like "not" artificial, these are great fun missions.

If this game could achive something similar i think the multiplayer would have more people online, they in turn may come into PVP more often too. In my view the single player in this game is not the greatest, sooner or later you will want to fly online, but as said the only option it a quiet stressfull PVP environment, i think that limits the amount of people that take the plunge and go into a multiplayer server.

 

Is it true that the way the AI works in the game the servers can not handle many AI´s? When you spawn missions on demand, like 2-3 ground attack missions witch changing location on the map,  few flights of fighters with 1 to 4 fighters each, the same with enemy ground attack planes. And when the players shot them down or killed the ground units, a new mission/AI gets spawned at a new location. With a system like that you should be able to make do with 50 to 100 AI at any give time, is this too much for a server to handle in this game?

 

 

There exist no coop in dcs as far as i know. could you explain what coop means for you. i would love a coop function in dcs. i read in their forum that they plan or work on something like a dynamic campain thing wich will make coop possible by download or upload a generated mission. but for now theres only PvE or PvP or PvEcombined with PvP . The coop function here works as it should. But it lacks of missiondesigners. Old IL2 got that onlinewar from a communtiybuildup server that creates a mission for you from a dynamic map you could download and host. But just only for that mission. Is the mission completed it got direct impact on that map and frontline. so you could download and host a new one for about 10 players or so. But the missiongenerator was private and not from 1c. You need to make a script and host a server outside of il2 to generate a map and missions for downloading. We need a lobby here to do the same. but the lobby doesnt exist yet. Practicaly you need a community lobby like Hyperlobby that makes this things possible. Il2 never got this also not the old one. it was hosted by private people with a lot of entusiasm. 

 

Edited by Absolut

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1 hour ago, HBB*Hunger said:

As already said, I'm pretty sure a UI like HL with the ability to actually communicate and see all online players would be the solution.

Imagine I could actively invite players to my coop, imagine players could actually see when the coop is going to start. I just remember all the coops hostet by I/KG26 years ago and how I was sitting there, waiting for the Server to pop up. 

 

You can do that now.  Just set up a Teamspeak or Discord server.  The fact that this isn’t happening tells you all you need to know about the popularity of coops.  They’ve been replaced by dogfight servers.

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4 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

The fact that this isn’t happening tells you all you need to know about the popularity of coops.  They’ve been replaced by dogfight servers.

 

Must be nice to be omniscient. 🙄

 

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3 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

You can do that now.  Just set up a Teamspeak or Discord server.  The fact that this isn’t happening tells you all you need to know about the popularity of coops.  They’ve been replaced by dogfight servers.

 

I like how you always play a role of China in UN council ready to veto anything that's not up to snuff of CPC.

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2 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

I like how you always play a role of China in UN council ready to veto anything that's not up to snuff of CPC.

 

I’m not vetoing anything.  I’m telling you what you can use to replace Hyperlobby.  

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3 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I’m not vetoing anything.  I’m telling you what you can use to replace Hyperlobby.  

 

you can replace Hyperlobby with Webex Meetings as well... or you can organize a meet and greet in your neighborhood's friendly Waffle House.

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7 minutes ago, Hajo_Garlic said:

If y’all want coop make and host one!

 

Well, you can always help me make more coop missions, by making and sharing templates!

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1 minute ago, Leon_Portier said:

Well, you can always help me make more coop missions, by making and sharing templates!

I would enjoy coop but sadly I have neither the time atm and the fact I live at a place with 4 recording studios I could hear everyone but when I would push to talk y’all would likely hear drums or guitar.

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12 minutes ago, Hajo_Garlic said:

I would enjoy coop but sadly I have neither the time atm and the fact I live at a place with 4 recording studios I could hear everyone but when I would push to talk y’all would likely hear drums or guitar.

That sounds pretty cool, I´d add with my trombone skills.

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29 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

you can replace Hyperlobby with Webex Meetings as well... or you can organize a meet and greet in your neighborhood's friendly Waffle House.

 

If that works for you, go for it.  Just stop pretending that not having Hyperlobby is the problem.

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9 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

If that works for you, go for it.  Just stop pretending that not having Hyperlobby is the problem.

 

I'm not pretending. In the countries that are Not China it is a problem.

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6 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

I host coops for the BlitzPigs every weekend.  It's not difficult at all.  For me the real question is, why is multiplayer overall such a moribund scene?  For a sim as mature in years as this one is now, the multiplayer participation is frankly embarrassing.  A handful of servers, mostly empty.  Why?

I don't know about mostly empty. CombatBox has been packed to the gills the last couple months throughout the day. Numbers are down now because Tactical Air War is on, but it still draws good numbers in North American evenings. TAW, of course, seems to be pretty packed throughout the day. But its true there are only a few servers that are consistently populated, though I will say that things seem to be improving with BoBPs release, at least in my timezone.

 

The game has a steeper learning curve than 1946, and Warthunder is there for people who like competitive play with a less-steep curve and less barriers to entry overall. So a lot of the potential MP market is elsewhere.

Most of the player base plays SP according to statements by the devs and just perusing the forum. My guess is because the demographic for sim players skews older, so people are usually at an age where they have families and kids and other commitments and  have less time available to commit to getting in to online play. The same thing applies to Co-Ops, really. As I get older it gets harder and harder to get people together for things on anywhere near a regular basis.

It makes sense that people would gravitate to SP - you can take things at your own pace, when you can squeeze in the time, and not worry about being turbo-ganked by a horde of experten. 

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10 hours ago, FlyingNutcase said:

 

Well I must admit to possibly having misread the issue the OP is having. For me it's actually getting coops working. My buddy and I were able to connect - after doing port forwarding stuff - but we couldn't see each other's plane, at which point we just ended up in general MP. If other games can make coops a smooth experience without hoops to go through like port-forwarding and surprises like invisible planes, I'm sure the champs at 777 can too. Anyway, maybe I'm unintentionally off topic here.

Do either of you use mods? I had a similar problem and it turned out that a radio mod (to have English voices) caused an issue. No idea what, but removing the mod make things work as expected.

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13 hours ago, FlyingNutcase said:

It has been my great privilege to be the first (of with a bit of luck many) to upvote this post.

 

Jason? Han? Can someone please give us hope that coops will be made into a seamless online experience?

 

Like a lot of others, I haven't been able to get coops working, so currently stuck with the general multiplayer experience, flying with a buddy which is great, but the general one-pattern environment is starting to wear a bit thin.

Yeah dead dead and dead. Flying alone is one thing. Yesterday I was in taw looking for tanks. I noticed a stronghold beeing attacked and forgot it was tanks I was looking for. I bombed my own forces and when message came I had hit friendly I checked the map puzzled and got shot down by the 110 attacking the place. 
flying with more people save you from your own stupidity and make you better. But it is not often I get to do that. 
I miss a good coop

Edited by No.322_LuseKofte
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I think the challenge with coops is timing. It works well if you fly with friends and you set a day/time so everyone starts at the same time. If you just put up a coop server someone will join, start the mission and when the mission is underway someone else may join who than has to wait 20 min or politely ask for a restart and after that, rinse & repeat...

 

So yes, the only thing that can make coop work is a lobby or better a matchmaking system. There are plenty examples in other games where this works well.

Edited by SYN_Vander
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22 minutes ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

I'm not pretending. In the countries that are Not China it is a problem.

 

Use Teamspeak.  Problem solved.

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4 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Use Teamspeak.  Problem solved.

 

noo, not solved at all. We prefer the original ideas, not some knock offs.

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1 minute ago, Count_de_Money said:

 

noo, not solved at all. We prefer the original ideas, not some knock offs.

 

List the features in Hyperlobby that you don’t have in Teamspeak.  It should take you about 2 seconds.  I’ll wait.

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1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

List the features in Hyperlobby that you don’t have in Teamspeak.  It should take you about 2 seconds.  I’ll wait.

 

Teamspeak and Discord are the 2 features we don't want in my Il2 BoS Hyperlobby. We want a hyperlobby, I think that's very easy to understand, except you're somehow making it very difficult.

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Just now, Count_de_Money said:

 

Teamspeak and Discord are the 2 features we don't want in my Il2 BoS Hyperlobby. We want a hyperlobby, I think that's very easy to understand, except you're somehow making it very difficult.

 

Right.  So there isn’t a single feature missing from Teamspeak that you need for coops.  That’s what I thought.   

 

It’s not difficult at all to figure out why almost no one is playing coops.  It has nothing to do with Hyperlobby.  They’re just not very popular.

 

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Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Right.  So there isn’t a single feature missing from Teamspeak that you need for coops.  That’s what I thought.   

 

It’s not difficult at all to figure out why almost no one is playing coops.  It has nothing to do with Hyperlobby.  They’re just not very popular.

 

 

ok, let me try it again. Teamspeak and Discord both are missing one feature, which Hyperlobby. Does that make it clearer?

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