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US93_Larner

Invisible Planes Bug

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21 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

To me, I couldn't think of a worse bug, the same way people always prevented the idea of invisible skins for the obvious reasons. It would kill multiplayer. Hence why I’m not sure why this thing got dragged unfixed for so many years.


Not to downplay the issue, but unless we can determine that the bug is linked specifically to a particular player or plane, which should be possible to do by checking server logs, it’s safe to assume that everyone is affected equally, so the impact is not that major. Individually I understand that it puts you at a disadvantage when you are out there protecting your streak, though it’s no worse than regular connection problems.

 

As always the solutions are the same: don’t fly alone, have a two-seater with an AI gunner to back you up and help you with spotting (can they see invisible planes?) and have a good escape plan, especially if you are flying Entente and need to fly over enemy lines.

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21 hours ago, J5_Hellbender-Sch27b said:

As always the solutions are the same: don’t fly alone, have a two-seater with an AI gunner to back you up and help you with spotting (can they see invisible planes?) and have a good escape plan, especially if you are flying Entente and need to fly over enemy lines.

 


I'm a lone wolf, and then it would not work for me. I never used comms in ROF and I don't intent to use it here, just if one day I decide to play WWII, which at this point seems unlikely. It would also only work if your peers are seeing the invisible plane and tell you about it (the US squadrons have a few of these videos). And sometimes it takes time to realize that they are talking about a plane that you can't see, which then it is too late.

 

The escape route is something we do naturally, although nowadays we have the visibility issues (flying through a periscope), but it would not help with invisible planes. For example, the first invisible plane incident that happened to me this month was when I was tracking two D7s (one of them I know to be an 7F) at the other side (there was a third invisible one with them, D7F). I thought about going for broke and face them both, but they were on the other side and you always end up in a furball down below. So I tested the waters a couple times, came back, and then one of them decided to come get me. Fine, I was waiting for him to get some separation from the other. I was dragging him a bit afar, and the other D7 was just observing, circling into our direction. When I was crossing my lines, bam! Sound of bullets, black out for several seconds. I woke up diving, streaming, prop stopped. It was the third D7F that was with them and jumped me from behind. Never saw it. I imagine he thought I was dead, so he did not followed me because I was falling into my lines. 

 

Right there, several minutes of playing a cat and mouse game that got spoiled by an invisible plane bug. This is serious to me, especially if it is a bug that has been dragged for half a decade.

 

I just hope that they will tackle this things in 2020.

Edited by SeaW0lf

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I have to side to side with @SeaW0lf on this. Also being a lone wolf, the „one D7 turn out to be three“ gag is getting a little old now.

 

Also a rear gunner is not much help. It is rare that you see no D7 and suddenly you have one in your neck. Usually you do the game as just described above. You‘re stalking one or two, but then finding yourself in a gaggle just like that is a bit much.

 

I never had such flying central. Coincidence or not, I don‘t know.

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I keep hearing mentions of the D.VII, is this only happening with that particular plane?

 

Especially if you mention two visible D.VIIs and one invisible D.VII, it could have been two visible Fs and one invisible vanilla.

 

Anyway, please keep recording tracks and filing bug reports. Also keep track of where and when this takes place so we can check server logs. I believe server operators could play a part here by temporarily removing the vanilla D.VII and see if the problem goes away.

Edited by J5_Hellbender-Sch27b

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That I mention the D.VII is that I see it used most often. So I don't want to imply that only this type is affected. It just never happened to me being jumped in such a way by other types. If it starts happening again, I will record tracks. So far I didn't bother, as getting wasted over there I'd consider inevitable anyway.

 

Merry Xmas!

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The first incident with the third invisible D7 was a D7F. The last one, on the video above, was a D7. I'll edit the post so people can differentiate. I just don't know the other two D7s that were tracking me, but I imagine D7Fs as well.

 

I'll see if I can track every sortie that I make. Does it affect performance?

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I had another incident today. I dove because I already knew it could be a plane. It was a Fokker D7F. I just did not count with the Camel glass engine... It blew up basically at level speed.

 

Anyways, 11 days I guess since the last one, by I’m not recording every track. But today I was recording every track (pain).

 

Seems a lot to me. If some other people could start recording basically every track and paying attention to empty flak, would be great. Most empty flak is due to pixels that we can see (game engine visibility problems as well), but some of them you can discern from it. It helps with invisible bounces as well.

 

 

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I always flick track record on whenever I see empty flak. Last Sunday one of my wingmen was shot down due to an invisible D7F. Only loss of the night for us 😡

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There were several occasions where Central pilots saw empty flak on their side, but we weren't able to tell what kind of Entente plane they were. 

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21 minutes ago, J28w-Broccoli said:

Glad the devs have responded and let us know that they are addressing this.

 

Where?

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14 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

Where?


He's being legitimately sarcastic I think. Don't hold your breath that they'll give a flying FK.

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So if there's flak around empty space then the ground see's the invisible plane, wonder if ai gunners will see the invisible plane as well.

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On 1/1/2020 at 6:53 PM, J5_Baeumer said:

There were several occasions where Central pilots saw empty flak on their side, but we weren't able to tell what kind of Entente plane they were. 

 

Gus might be working behind the scenes.

 

On 1/2/2020 at 2:58 PM, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

So if there's flak around empty space then the ground see's the invisible plane, wonder if ai gunners will see the invisible plane as well.

 

I would think they do.

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I tested my track and could not toggle the invisible Fokker. Then some aspects of the code are not present. If the AAA sees it, the toggle should as well. But it don't. 

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I too am interested to see if the AI gunners see them. Might have to fly around with Bristol radar

defense.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/2/2020 at 12:53 AM, J5_Baeumer said:

There were several occasions where Central pilots saw empty flak on their side, but we weren't able to tell what kind of Entente plane they were. 


Among Entente planes my wingmates see and I don't, planes coming out of nowhere and planes disappearing there is very high proportion of S.E.5as . I strongly suspect they are affected by the bug.

I had joined formation with invisible plane few days ago (Bidu and Drookasi flew side by side but I onl saw Bidu). Drookasi firing his guns made him reappear, even though I was not looking at him at the moment..

So, gentlemen of the skies out there, if there is flak on you (and you are alerady illuminated, so there is little to lose), fire a short burst to get you into synch with other pilots in area. 

We should check if firing the pistol onto air drops invisibility. It should, but we don't know. If so, we can fire pistols every 10 minutes to shake off invisibility without painting sky with tracers.

Edited by J2_Trupobaw

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I've noticed too that in BoS etc, zoomed all the way out, aircraft are quite visible as dots. Zoom in and they start to disappear unless zoomed ALL the way in. This may be the way the devs designed the sim. However, last night on Berloga, I zoomed in on a furball but one of the aircraft actually disappeared and reappeared while I zoomed in and out at a certain range of zoom.

 

I don't know what type of aircraft it was, what field of view range or distance it was away. I'm merely saying that I think this is a problem (however different but related) that possibly reaches further than DVIIs in FC.

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6 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:


Among Entente planes my wingmates see and I don't, planes coming out of nowhere and planes disappearing there is very high proportion of S.E.5as . I strongly suspect they are affected by the bug.

I had joined formation with invisible plane few days ago (Bidu and Drookasi flew side by side but I onl saw Bidu). Drookasi firing his guns made him reappear, even though I was not looking at him at the moment..

So, gentlemen of the skies out there, if there is flak on you (and you are alerady illuminated, so there is little to lose), fire a short burst to get you into synch with other pilots in area. 

We should check if firing the pistol onto air drops invisibility. It should, but we don't know. If so, we can fire pistols every 10 minutes to shake off invisibility without painting sky with tracers.

 

I'll try this next time. Today I was lucky and apparently there was no invisible planes incident or empty flak.

 

1 hour ago, Adam said:

I've noticed too that in BoS etc, zoomed all the way out, aircraft are quite visible as dots. Zoom in and they start to disappear unless zoomed ALL the way in. This may be the way the devs designed the sim. However, last night on Berloga, I zoomed in on a furball but one of the aircraft actually disappeared and reappeared while I zoomed in and out at a certain range of zoom.

 

I don't know what type of aircraft it was, what field of view range or distance it was away. I'm merely saying that I think this is a problem (however different but related) that possibly reaches further than DVIIs in FC.

 

Zoom in an out with planes shrinking and ballooning is a bug / bad code linked to Alternate visibility. I haven't seen people linking this to normal / expert mode. I'm not sure how many servers use this mode nowadays, because it is broke to a big portion of us - due to what you said: the planes look to be teleporting, since they shrink and balloon up depending on the zoom, so it is unplayable for part of us (not sure why this version is still available).

 

And the problem of invisible planes is apparently endemic to all planes, WWI or WWII. If you search for "invisible plane bug" or "invisible planes", you will find three or four posts about it, the first one from 2015 about WWII birds if I'm not mistaken (they did not have FC back then).

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 "due to what you said: the planes look to be teleporting, since they shrink and balloon up depending on the zoom"

 

Well only one plane did. It actually disappeared and reappeared while in a certain zoom range. Outside of that range I could see it.

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52 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

I'm not sure how many servers use this mode nowadays

Berloga one that does.  

31 minutes ago, Adam said:

Well only one plane did. It actually disappeared and reappeared while in a certain zoom range.

I've noticed both in WW1 and WW2 that a distant aircraft will completely disappear momentarily as if there is a LOD missing at that distance.

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Just now, US93_Furlow said:

Berloga one that does.  

 

Oh, my! That's why he was seeing planes change sizes /disappear with zoom. It is strange that this visibility mode wasn't removed yet until they come up with something reliable. The expert mode is off tremendously, but at least planes don't shrink with zoom.

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3 hours ago, US93_Furlow said:

Berloga one that does.  

I've noticed both in WW1 and WW2 that a distant aircraft will completely disappear momentarily as if there is a LOD missing at that distance.

 

Exactly what I thought.

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The following is a pure hypothesis in which no allegation or claim should be inferred:

 

During a multiplayer session, there may be a momentary interruption of data from one client. If that occurs, the server can no longer update that plane's co-ordinates, so will flag it as invisible and probably move it off-map. Should the data stream be restored before the server disconnects that client, the server will flag the plane as visible and resume updating its states. However if one or more of the other clients fail to receive the data packet indicating the transition from invisible to visible, for them that plane continues to be invisible until another packet relating to that plane's states is transmitted, for example when the plane fires its guns.

 

If I'm right, I can conceive of a couple of ways of fixing the problem, but at the expense of some increase in bandwidth used.

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Not sure if it's the same thing but we have noticed that the odd time a balloon will go invisible at times in #20 server.  This is before it gets shot down or just flying by our own balloon.

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13 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

The following is a pure hypothesis in which no allegation or claim should be inferred:

 

During a multiplayer session, there may be a momentary interruption of data from one client. If that occurs, the server can no longer update that plane's co-ordinates, so will flag it as invisible and probably move it off-map. Should the data stream be restored before the server disconnects that client, the server will flag the plane as visible and resume updating its states. However if one or more of the other clients fail to receive the data packet indicating the transition from invisible to visible, for them that plane continues to be invisible until another packet relating to that plane's states is transmitted, for example when the plane fires its guns.

 

If I'm right, I can conceive of a couple of ways of fixing the problem, but at the expense of some increase in bandwidth used.



We need a lag switchto test that :).

My own hypothesis is that it's proximity based - planes that started to far away and never got close get "to far to bother sending tracking data " flag  and it not always gets removed when it should be. 

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I'll add this to the stack marked "invisible weirdness". I was the only one who could see it. Seems similar to the fixed point gunfire bug in RoF except you can see smoke from the point of origin.

 

https://youtu.be/VilEeaJBJmE?t=10887

 

Ignore the comms about a Bristol shooting up, that's a whole other fight elsewhere.

 

Edited by US103_Baer

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Yeah I was looking right at that field because I had taken off not too long before. I saw none of that.

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Post at the other invisible bug reports. They need to work on this. 

 

Here I think I got one as well (today's Sunday mission). Empty flak following something (icons enabled). It does not follow the pattern of ambient flak and it crossed several kilometers of mud. I think I was too far to trigger them. Did not went there to check because you never know where the plane is, and the anomaly was happening at the other side. I just got to the mid mud to see if I could spot something. Not even after, in the track, with icons on.

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Hey look! More invisible D7Fs! 

I've yet to see an invisible plane.:biggrin:  In your video, what was 2nd DVIIF firing at?  Looked like he was just shooting randomly as he flew away.

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The Devs provided "the bogie you didn't see coming."   Thank you, Devs.  That adds one  more degree of unpredictability to the game.  Keep up the good work. 

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21 minutes ago, J5_Gamecock said:

I've yet to see an invisible plane.:biggrin:  In your video, what was 2nd DVIIF firing at?  Looked like he was just shooting randomly as he flew away.

Interesting, I'll have to look at my record too on that.

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1 minute ago, US213_Talbot said:

Interesting, I'll have to look at my record too on that.

 

You should run these tracks through tacview to see if anything shows there as well.

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Don't have that or know anything about that program. Would be happy to send a link to download this track file for anyone that wants to dissect it.

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I believe there is a setting ingame to allow it to capture tacview data when you record.  Then you can open tacview (free version download) and view the flight data.  I believe the flight data file gets saved in the same folder as the recordings.

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3 hours ago, J5_Gamecock said:

I've yet to see an invisible plane.:biggrin:  In your video, what was 2nd DVIIF firing at?  Looked like he was just shooting randomly as he flew away.


Assuming a 3rd invisible D.VII F that he doesn't get along with...

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10 hours ago, US93_Larner said:

Hey look! More invisible D7Fs! 
 

 


I found the same moment from Hotlead's perspective! I'm thinking that it looks like he may have become visible when he cocked his guns...
 

 

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34 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:


I found the same moment from Hotlead's perspective! I'm thinking that it looks like he may have become visible when he cocked his guns...



That's consistent with our encounter in your earlier movie; moment my D.VII becomes visible matches moment in dive when I'm usually cocking my guns. 

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