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US93_Larner

Invisible Planes Bug

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Evening, all. 

Wanted to start this thread to see if anyone's experienced anything similar to this: 

 

On the 18th November I was flying with a wingman when he spotted an enemy aircraft. He started tracking it, but it inexplicably vanished into thin air as he was watching it. We could still see flak shooting around where it was. We tracked the flak as it got closer, and scanned the sky thoroughly to try and see the enemy, but we saw absolutely nothing. Eventually, when the flak was very close, we assumed it must be firing at us and so we started looking for other targets. We quickly spotted a flight of 3 planes low across the lines, roughly 9km away. 

 

The J5 Flugpark server was giving 'Server Overload' messages on the mission prior, but in this mission I didn't see any overload messages, and the server had only about 20 - 25 people in it. 

Suddenly, my wingman is being attacked by a D.VII F. I turn to help, and during the fight I see another D.VII F appear directly behind me out of thin air. 

I'd like to make it very clear that I DON'T think this is any kind of cheat, or anything like this - I know both the pilots in the D.VII Fs - but it's obviously some kind of bug...and a pretty game-breaking one at that. It would be great for anyone else who's seen something like this to leave a comment, as I'd like to provide a list of names for people who have seen this sort of thing for the bug report. 

Several of my other Squadron mates (US93_Furlow, US103_Hunter, US213_Hall) have said they've seen this before, and after watching this track I realised that I've also seen it before in an earlier track I took - at the time I thought it was just a track bug, and not an in-game one. This would also explain some of the times I've been bounced where I was 100% certain the skies were clear around me!

Either way, I find it pretty disheartening that planes can just turn invisible...

 

P.S - so far me and my squadron mates have only seen this happening with D.VII Fs - I'm NOT saying the problem is limited to that plane alone, but I'm wondering if it only affects certain planes. Please, let me know if you've seen it happening with any other types of plane! I'd like to get a list of names and aircraft seen to be affected for the bug report. 

 


 

 

Edited by US93_Larner
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I did see a lot of close flak and no contacts when flying Entente that evening, but assumed it's my crappy spotting.

 

There is a similar bug in RoF, where player is sometimes invisible until he fires his guns. But it's all or nothing situation - plane is invisible to everybody. Which is not the case here, D.VIIs come together and decloak before opening fire. May be connectivity error or spotting bug.

 

I'll repost the video in Beta forum tomorrow, if no one beats me to it. Good thing the planes stayed invisible on the track.

 

I hate to say it, but perhaps Mathias needs to ground D.VIIFs for time being :/.

Edited by J2_Trupobaw
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I've seen it a lot in RoF when my firewall was blocking high ports, back in 2015 - on bad day I was in game but no one could see me. One of our J2 pilots was escorting recon with us for 20 minutes saying he's with us all the time - when he fired his guns to let us find him by tracers he appeared before our eyes. 

 

This is different, though. But custom skins are clearly visible on this video, and not transparent :). 

 

... May be something about seeing these custom skins for first time in game, though. Some treshold. Like, once plane gets close enough for custom skin to be recognizable while zoomed out, it gets "reloaded" and becomes visible. Pure guesswork.

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This happened on a training night of ours awhile back. I don't think Larner was there. Baer was in D7, dont know if F or regular. I believe I was in a CL2(?) and I saw Baer entire time while Hunter could not see him. Baer in D7 sat on Hunters 6 and shot at him and all Hunter could see were bullets coming from an invisible plane. Was still like that the second time he spawned in and Hunter had to restart his PC to fix it. We had only 4 or so people in our training server at the time. We chalked it up to "well that was wierd."

 

This is very disheartening because I was recently bounced by some fokkers that I know I should have seen. Likewise, I dont want to be bouncing parachutes when I'm invisible either as that's not very sporting.

 

Edited by US213_Talbot
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4 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

I've seen it a lot in RoF when my firewall was blocking high ports, back in 2015 - on bad day I was in game but no one could see me. One of our J2 pilots was escorting recon with us for 20 minutes saying he's with us all the time - when he fired his guns to let us find him by tracers he appeared before our eyes. 

 

This is different, though. But custom skins are clearly visible on this video, and not transparent :). 

 

... May be something about seeing these custom skins for first time in game, though. Some treshold. Like, once plane gets close enough for custom skin to be recognizable while zoomed out, it gets "reloaded" and becomes visible. Pure guesswork.

Skins likely have nothing to do with it as Wings of Liberty has custom skins blocked and it still happens.

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Thinking back...I now believe I have had this happen as well.  Twice from same dude.  Assumed it was my regular shitty spotting.  I'll keep the tape running in case I see it again, and keep an eye if he is using custom skin, or if proximity to clouds or other background effects may be contributing.

Edited by J28w-Broccoli
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The skins they change to here are not default, though.

 

Damn. Custom skins and server overload were two factors I was counting on, but from what Tablot / Furlow say bug happens without them.

 

The fact that both USAAS pilots were affected, and both Fokkers went invisible to both of them is troubling - the issue is reproducible. It ain't freak occurence between plane A and plane B; two planes flying together lose contacts together, two planes flying together go invisible together. It's not random.

 

Come to think of it, Bidu and I had plenty of losing contacts as we got closer when flying Entente - we just assumed the contact changed course and we can no longer find it. And I did notice that I ususally see new contacts either far away, already up close, or already in combat with someone more so than in RoF. I chalked it up to tiredness and no more flak, but maybe some of it was bug at work.

Edited by J2_Trupobaw
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1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Custom skins and server overload were two factors I was counting on, but from what Tablot / Furlow say bug happens without them.

 

Regarding server overload warnings, please keep in mind that when server overload warnings appear on the Flugpark, to the best we can tell to date, the server has not been near overload, only past a very conservative warning threshold.  They

seem to appear around 50 pilots, but are not accompanied by any consistent reports of lag or disconnects, etc.

Edited by J5_Baeumer

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After looking into some stuff, I think the flugpark should disable custom skins for a while and see if the issue persists.

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This bug has been reported (in Flying Circus as well). Go there to see if it is the same. In case yes, I would post the video there too.

 

The worst part is that with the current spotting situation so poor / mediocre for many of us, unless you record all your flights, there is no way to determine if a plane popped up because of this bug or because your spotting is limited to a few seconds until you merge or get bounced.

 

 

Edited by SeaW0lf
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Re Hunter's experience. I was in D7F. Flew close to his Spad on his 4 and he couldn't see me. Then i dropped back and shot. He saw the bullets but no plane. 

 

Can't recall if using default or custom skin.

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Was jumped by D7 , I scanned the sky ,then  suddenly I saw tracers, I was wondering how blind I become. Might be  it but do not have any evidence. BTW Lucas has data missing  message and his plane disappeared in front of me and Sahaj for 2 seconds , then reappeared , then second message about his data lost and he was disconnected from the server.  BTW I can reproduce similar but not exactly same invisible plane bug in the multiplayer when I try to host the game, peers who connect , we can use  chat, I  see them  destroying buildings etc but we can't see each other planes, same with AI , only I can see them. Posted this bug , all port were opened and forwarded etc , this is something with UDP packed but Dev fix didn't work for me. 

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

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I've seen things appear /disappear on my server, Caquot balloon for one.

As for the DVIIf, that and the Alby have a skin selection problem in the editor. A <multiple> option exists, and when you select any skin (including <default>), it reverts back to <multiple>.

Don't know if it's connected to the cloaking, but I've reported them.

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Was jumped by D.Va that came out of nowhere yesterday, there were two friendlies close behind so I thought I have my six covered.

 

So Zooropa_Fly, are all D.Vas and D.VIIFs always affected, or only if wrong option is selected in ME?

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I wonder if you chuck it in TacView do you see anything different?

 

I'm interested as to whether the game is tracking the invisible planes on your client (which is just not rendering them for some reason) or whether its a server issue and you're not being told about their existence until they start to fire. ETA: Revell on the bug report thread shows that TacView had two objects tracked as cubes that resolved into aircraft.

 

DerSheriff posted another example of this happening on his Discord last week albeit with WW2 aircraft.

Edited by meheleventyone
details from the bug report thread

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On Larners movie, icons are not visible and pop out of nowhere along with plane. So it's not his client having his plane data but displaying transparent or nonexistent model; plane entity is not there, then it is 😕 

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1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

On Larners movie, icons are not visible and pop out of nowhere along with plane. So it's not his client having his plane data but displaying transparent or nonexistent model; plane entity is not there, then it is 😕 

 

Yeah that's why I was asking. The game replays are hopefully consistent with the game as it happened but the track data might actually have more information than is used. Looking at it in a third party app might provide some more data to pass on. Something is clearly going wrong in deciding to show the aircraft but is that due to missing position data on the client, missing information about what an object is on the client, a bug in the logic that determines what should be rendered on the client or something else.

 

If you look at Revell's post in the bug report thread linked above it does look (from tiny cropped images) that there are objects tracked in TacView approximately in the right place which are unidentified and rendered as cubes then resolved to aircraft.

 

Edit: Reading the TacView docs its a separate mode that needs to be enabled so probably not possible.

Edited by meheleventyone

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1 hour ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Was jumped by D.Va that came out of nowhere yesterday, there were two friendlies close behind so I thought I have my six covered.

 

So Zooropa_Fly, are all D.Vas and D.VIIFs always affected, or only if wrong option is selected in ME?

 

I don't know if or how it's related to the issue at hand.

Skin selection is ok for player planes, but in 'advanced properties' of an ai DVIIf and Alby - there's a dropdown option <multiple> that doesn't exist in any other plane, and probably shouldn't.

It's there by default, and despite selecting one of the skin options, it reverts back to <multiple>. So it can't be changed from the mysterious <multiple> setting.

 

If the issue is seen with these two planes then maybe there is a connection.

However, if it's happening with human controlled planes then maybe not...

 

 

 

 

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Thank you Larner for providing such substancial evidence for what looks most definetely as a bug. I hope that someone from the 1C programming team is listening and swift action is taken for correction.

 

Compliments on the instant reaction of you both on an attack that totally surprised you.

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Yeh I do not see that theories around the custom skins bear any fruit on this matter. Before the custom skins get loaded the default skins are used as placeholders instead. And when the custom skins do not exist on your computer the default skins are used instead. The custom skins are not the sole texture that paints the aircraft either, some parts have thier own skins which continue to get shown when transparent custom skins are used. And as mentioned above the icons are not being shown for the aircraft before he pops into existence. So it's not limited to a problem around custom skins. Had this been just about the custom skin becoming invisible (for some strange reason) we would just be seeing an engine block and pilot floating about the video;

 

okUZ2mq.png

AjfpZN6.png

 

I've a question. Is the aicraft viewable using the external free camera at enemy aircraft at any point prior to that? For same reason as meheleventyone suggests TacView. Does the aicraft exist anywhere in the replay prior the the reappearance. Maybe the aircraft does exist in that position but whatever is causing the aicraft to become invisible also makes the game consider that the icons need to be occluded? Or maybe the aicraft and its icons are somewhere else and are teleported into correct position.

Edited by Oliver88

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I wonder, since it seems connected to firing of the gun, if simply "test firing" a quick burst while on the ground might be a simple short term (fingers crossed) solution.

 

Edit:

I think I remember recording the incident of this happening on our training session. I'll have to check the tracks when I get a chance.

Edited by US213_Talbot

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There was notice of plane becoming visible by flashing lights. I suppose the action that decloaked plane before shooting might have benen cocking guns (is it animated in 3rd person?).

I doubt firing the guns on airfield will make the plane visible all the time. I think pilot needs to do something visible (animated?) when in spotting range. I will be firing my pistol into the sky before engaging when I suspect my target has not noticed me; this should break the cloak without announcing my presence to everyone in 10 km.

Can this be related to clouds? Planes are known to go invisible against the coluds, and Flugpark wnet cloud-heavy. What is the cloud setting of peopole experienceing it?

Has anyone seen this happen when there are no clouds on server? 

Edited by J2_Trupobaw

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1 hour ago, Oliver88 said:

I've a question. Is the aicraft viewable using the external free camera at enemy aircraft at any point prior to that? For same reason as meheleventyone suggests TacView. Does the aicraft exist anywhere in the replay prior the the reappearance. Maybe the aircraft does exist in that position but whatever is causing the aicraft to become invisible also makes the game consider that the icons need to be occluded? Or maybe the aicraft and its icons are somewhere else and are teleported into correct position.


No - Actually, I should have mentioned that. I tried to find other aircraft through the external camera and neither appeared when cycling through enemy planes. The icons / planes being incorrectly positioned is an interesting thought...

11 hours ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

Come to think of it, Bidu and I had plenty of losing contacts as we got closer when flying Entente - we just assumed the contact changed course and we can no longer find it. And I did notice that I ususally see new contacts either far away, already up close, or already in combat with someone more so than in RoF. I chalked it up to tiredness and no more flak, but maybe some of it was bug at work.

 

This is the most glaring issue with the bug for me - it'll be extremely hard to determine if it's a spotting error or if you're experiencing the bug, unless you're looking directly at the plane when it appears / disappears! Even when the first D.VII attacked, we assumed we'd somehow scanned over the guy stalking us, but then as I extended away after a prop-hang I was looking over my shoulder and saw the second D.VII appear right behind me. 

Fortunately, I like to keep a track record going most of the time, and I had the shadowplay recording as a backup just in case! (I decided not to include that in the video as I had a rather, er, colourful response to a D.VII F appearing at point blank range behind me....) 

Edited by US93_Larner
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I feel another "Fokker Blues" movie coming on.

 

I've attached a screenshot of me trying to get the angle on the D7 right. I think I nailed it.

20191118_091858.jpg

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1 hour ago, US213_Talbot said:

I feel another "Fokker Blues" movie coming on.

 

I've attached a screenshot of me trying to get the angle on the D7 right. I think I nailed it.

20191118_091858.jpg

 

Maybe in your world there's a happy DVII or two over there.

 

image.jpeg.b4133530b51cfe2da26e2313549007ba.jpeg

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The other day I was shot down again by an invisible yak on Wol server. It just appear when he opened fire. But is not allways related with that. 

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What is bugging me about that bug ))) is the back play with icons shows its icon only when it visualises.
If it had been “cloaked” before there should at least  have been an icon present without its object.
Like it suddenly appears with icon makes one presume it warpes or lags in out of a worm hole ...

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If you notice, with the new icons tweak, that the icon is visible when the plane is not. (The icon should really only appear when the plane (or other object) does.)

Thus I presume the icon is one and the same entity as the plane itself, visually at least.

 

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5 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Thus I presume the icon is one and the same entity as the plane itself, visually at least.

 

 

Which means each one can be a distinct universe....

Related image

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hmm.... I cannot say anything specific about theis invisible thing, I many times have issues with spotting planes, but I am pretty sure that most of the times the problem is simply my poor spotting skills. That a plane appeared suddenly direct next to me in the middle of my screen did not happen to me so far. 

 

BUT there is a strange thing with the D.VII:

Yesterday (Sunday) evening I did only one flight with a Fokker D.VII; I spawned at the air start point right next to front... It was a short flight as very soon I met a S.E.5 and a Camel close to the ground. The fight ended quickly as I crashed in the ground and wrecked my plane completely... allthough that I don't know every single detail of this fight I am pretty sure that I was hit by bullets from both of them and that the pilot was heavily hurt after the crash.....

And here is what the Stats are telling of that flight:

http://162.248.94.112:8000/de/sortie/log/9652/?tour=6

 

The logs on all other Sorties I did fly yesterday are looking absolutely plausible, both on the damadge I received as well as distributet by me; only the Log of the flight with the D.VII is totally empty... 

I don't know if that issue is connected to the invisible one and maybe it is not connected to the plane type but to the spawning option (in that way that air-spawned planes are not recognized correctly by the server and/or parser.... I have no clue), but that we have an issue here seems to be evident....

 

Edited by II./JG1_Etzel

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I think you’re just looking at the wrong one/misremembering what you were flying? Cause this next one has you fighting a Camel and SE5a. Albeit in a Dr.I.

http://162.248.94.112:8000/de/sortie/log/9657/?tour=6

 

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9 minutes ago, meheleventyone said:

I think you’re just looking at the wrong one/misremembering what you were flying? Cause this next one has you fighting a Camel and SE5a. Albeit in a Dr.I.

http://162.248.94.112:8000/de/sortie/log/9657/?tour=6

 

No, for sure not... I had several engagements Se5s and Camels yesterday; but that flight was the only one with the D.VII and I remember clearly that I did fight against these 2 enemy planes and that I crashed on the ground.... So even that it could be true (even that I deem this as unlikely) that both of them did not put a single bullet in my plane during the dog fight, I am absolutely sure that at least the info on the plane status (with no damage indicated) is wrong! 

 

 

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The airstart Dolphin runs in invunerable mode, at least sometimes. Looks like the same applies to airstart D.VII.

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 It seems that Talbots Twilight Zone reference in another thread may not be too far off! 😉 

 

 I've not seen this, then again, I'm usually IN the DVII. 

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Is this "invisible plane" something people are experiencing elsewhere in MP; or is it just limited to the J5 Flugpark?

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4 minutes ago, Todt_Von_Oben said:

Is this "invisible plane" something people are experiencing elsewhere in MP; or is it just limited to the J5 Flugpark?

It happens on the WW2 servers also.

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Me and my brother frequently have this when flying D7Fs together. We also see standard skins momentarily before they morph back to the custom ones we use.

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