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[APAF]spartan85

Wake turbulence?

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I’m wondering if we will ever get wake turbulence implemented in the future?

 

i know prop wash is there, but only in single player..hopefully we could get this in mp too... 

 

in dcs, wow what a difference it makes when on the six of another ship...  especially low to the deck.

 

anywho.. next update has really needed fixes coming up so I’m happy for this :)  

 

thoughts?

 

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It would be interesting, though the effect may be less than we'd expect from modern era aircraft. Most of our aircraft are only light (<7 tonn) with even the largest of the war only getting to the middle of the Medium classification (7-135 tonns) and then only the B-29 (61 tonns), with most being only on the lower end of Medium aircraft. 

 

It would still be interesting to try though. 

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You feel it in small single engine airplanes too, I have tried some simulated air  combat in real military trainers, and definitely its a factor, and will throw your aim for sure.

Would be nice if implemented.

If it is implemented in SP its very mild, cannot feel it from another single engine airplane.

Here is a pic of one of those combats, they are a ton of fun :)

67897765_2372274386158988_8621974133200125952_o.jpg

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32 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

You feel it in small single engine airplanes too, I have tried some simulated air  combat in real military trainers, and definitely its a factor, and will throw your aim for sure.

Would be nice if implemented.

If it is implemented in SP its very mild, cannot feel it from another single engine airplane.

Here is a pic of one of those combats, they are a ton of fun :)

67897765_2372274386158988_8621974133200125952_o.jpg

I am so jealous....

 

I remember seeing a documentary on tv a way back where a b-17 caught some trouble.  It got help by a p-51, and when the escort was no longer needed he flew in front of the bomber, wiggled his wings and broke off.

from the wake created by the little plane it put the bomber into a spin..  I can’t remember if they recovered or bailed out but they were alive to tell the story.. :)

 

sorry i I don’t have reference...

 

anywho let’s hope for future technology for such a thing!

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4 hours ago, spartan85 said:

I am so jealous....

 

I remember seeing a documentary on tv a way back where a b-17 caught some trouble.  It got help by a p-51, and when the escort was no longer needed he flew in front of the bomber, wiggled his wings and broke off.

from the wake created by the little plane it put the bomber into a spin..  I can’t remember if they recovered or bailed out but they were alive to tell the story.. :)

 

sorry i I don’t have reference...

 

anywho let’s hope for future technology for such a thing!

What a Dick lol

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Yes, small aircraft can produce quite a bit of turbulence as well. We had an accident around here a few years back where wingtip vortexes of a AN-2 caused a fatal accident. A Robin DR400 was taking off after an AN-2 had taken off, and got caught in a vortex just as it cleared the ground, it was turned upside down and crashed. Four people died. A 5-ton biplane like the AN-2 would certainly not be considered a large aircraft, but it certainly is enough to cause problems.

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1 hour ago, JtD said:

Yes, small aircraft can produce quite a bit of turbulence as well. We had an accident around here a few years back where wingtip vortexes of a AN-2 caused a fatal accident. A Robin DR400 was taking off after an AN-2 had taken off, and got caught in a vortex just as it cleared the ground, it was turned upside down and crashed. Four people died. A 5-ton biplane like the AN-2 would certainly not be considered a large aircraft, but it certainly is enough to cause problems.

Not large but being a biplane would push around twice the amount of wake no?

 

unfortunate event :(

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This definitely will add more realism to the IL2 GB which is combat flight simulator .

Next thing that  I would like to add is local air shock waves coused by nearby explosion of AA shell.  There are even an accounts of passing shell above aeroplane can push it down, and vice versa when below.

 

I the end thermals and real turbulences.

 

 

 

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I second the motion. After implementing G-Forces and fatigue, it would add greatly to the immersion.

 

Seeing how DCS is now working on new cloud system and same G-Forces effects, and we recently got their flawed scaling system - there might be hope for this yet... 🤓😄

 

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3 hours ago, spartan85 said:

Not large but being a biplane would push around twice the amount of wake no?

It's more the slow speed together with the weight of 5 tons that makes the An-2 problematic regarding wake turbulence. It is also detailed in the report.

 

The An-2 can indeed generate vortices that are the size of the Robin and that are strong enough that they can't be compensated for in the trailing aircraft. You can see here how the crew in the Robin became passenger right after takeoff before fatal impact:

Spoiler

1.jpg.4f1e33e2c4c386bc488355a163a2c5f5.jpg

 

When they were repeating the same at a safe altitude, same happened. Check the distance to the leading An-2_

Spoiler

2.jpg.36cd47d0d029bf880c9e36abbe378360.jpg

 

It would be great having those vortices. It would add some spice to speed turning contests behind a Jug, in a better way than we have now with the Thunderspit.

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Yes!   

There are many times I strafe a target and the object explodes but there’s no disruption to my ship.

trains, fuel tanks, munitions, when you hit them at point blank.... no effect on your plane from boom..

 

flak pushing you around would be nice, and scary... 

2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

This definitely will add more realism to the IL2 GB which is combat flight simulator .

Next thing that  I would like to add is local air shock waves coused by nearby explosion of AA shell.  There are even an accounts of passing shell above aeroplane can push it down, and vice versa when below.

 

I the end thermals and real turbulences.

 

 

 

 

Edited by spartan85

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We can't even get proper numbers of ground units or mutiple flights of AIs in the game without causing play ability issues, and you guys want wake turbulence?

 

Methinks a priority reset is needed in the community.

 

Really.

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4 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

We can't even get proper numbers of ground units or mutiple flights of AIs in the game without causing play ability issues, and you guys want wake turbulence?

 

Methinks a priority reset is needed in the community.

 

Really.

+1

Yup.  I would be happy if this sim gets the basics right with a proper radio comms menue and interaction with the dreaded AI and you dream of wake turbulences and AA grenade shock waves....

😁

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1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

We can't even get proper numbers of ground units or mutiple flights of AIs in the game without causing play ability issues, and you guys want wake turbulence?

 

Methinks a priority reset is needed in the community.

 

Really.

The way lift is calculated in thi sim should make wake turbulence a bit more straight forward. Then again, it's up to the project managers on what to tackle.

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2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

We can't even get proper numbers of ground units or mutiple flights of AIs in the game without causing play ability issues, and you guys want wake turbulence?

 

Methinks a priority reset is needed in the community.

 

Really.

 

Not everybody has the same priorities. What of it? Why should your wish list be a higher priority than anyone else's? From what I've seen around here, what actually needs a reset is people's sense of entitlement and self-importance. But that goes for society in general these days, not just these forums.

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I can say the wake turbuleance in dcs is awesome in the warbirds,  Dogfighting is a whole new world with it and makes you realize even more how talented those ww2 pilots where.  Now it takes a toll on performance when huge formations of b17s and or fighters are flying so what some have said in regards to performance hit whether its in this game or in Dcs is valid.

  My personal thing is the flight model and damage model should be the pinnacle of the presentation of ww2 combat, but i fear we don't have the pc's and the Game Engines to truly present everything both communities want.

 

Always a compromise right...

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Tried that wake turbulence option in DCS, but it get's my fps down to low tens 😞

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S!

 

Please, NO. Wake turbulence kills FPS totally in DCS. Sure a nice effect with 2 planes, but formations of them. Good bye performance.

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25 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

Please, NO. Wake turbulence kills FPS totally in DCS. Sure a nice effect with 2 planes, but formations of them. Good bye performance.

Sholdn't we say that current implementations of wake turbulence kill FPS? Next week you can buy 16 core CPUs for the price you paid for a quad core two years ago. I think, at least in principle, there's some headroom.

 

I could say: Realistic FM/DM totally kills performance, it may work up to a dozen planes or so, but formations of them, good bye performance.

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S!

 

 I have a 12-core CPU and was playing the Bf109K-4 campaign by Reflected in DCS. Wondered why the heck FPS went down to single digits and even pauses with a formation of B17´s and escorting Ponies engaging our 109´s and 190´s. Per instructions on DCS forum disabled wake turbulence and game is smooth as silk. It is a nice feature, but unless any dev finds out how to model it without crippling the performance = let it be. DCS new DM will come soon, shall see if it has an impact on FPS.

Edited by LLv34_Flanker

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I don't care much for vortices that last for minutes, or descend huge amounts. It's neat but unnecessary (and a perf hog).


If DCS tuned those wakes so that they were a) Calculated per client in a smaller bubble (even introduce LODs for physics?) and b) Lasted a short time then we would see vastly improved FPS. As it is all aircraft produce high fidelity wakes that last a long time, bad for the ol' struggling CPU.

And for IL2? Yes, would love to see it. Not a huge priority but definitely a great detail.

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