Jump to content
zdog0331

Need some help putting together a vr simulator for charity

Recommended Posts

Alright so i am helping the Tuskegee airmen charity organization setup a vr flight simulator.  I we have settled on the vkb gunfigher stick and pedals for our peripherials due to their durability and the dry clutch feature and we are building out own replica throttle.   We will be running il2 Bodenplatte and due to this being used by the general public we need to ensure that we can get 90fps in vr due to this being many people's first experience with vr. So here is what we need some help with

 

We need some help putting together a pc that can run this game at 90 fps.  This is a computer that will be exclusively be running il2 so the parts i am looking for aren't parts that are good for gaming in general, but are good for this game in particular.  We have put together a decent amount for this setup, but we also want to save as much as we can as this pool of money goes to a variety of things such as giving out rides in a p-51 mustang and b-25 so while we are going into the enthusiest level we are looking for a pc that will get us to 90 fps in this this exact game and nothing more.

 

We also are unsure about which vr headset to use.  What we need is something that is portable and easy to setup due to this being setup at a variety of events and airshows and something with a manual ipd adjustment. 

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will first decide on the VR headset, then a suitable PC.

 

If you want easy portability then we should go to inside-out tracking. (Setting a basestation and power supply for it is less portable).

 

You should go to easy to setup devices: HP Reverb or Rift-S.  They offer a good confort and you can replace the foams o user covers.

 

If you go to the Reverb you will have the best definition of all current headsets. So you will need a better GPU than in the Rift-S for the same kind of experience.

 

Regarding the 90fps, there is no PC on earth which keeps 90fps at max settings in all scenarios. So you will need to tune the settings for the best experience.

 

CPU: i5-9600K or i7-9700K overclocked to 5.0GHz (overclock is a safe practice and easy to do)

CPU cooler: All-in-One 280mm watercooling

RAM: 16GbDDR4  3200MHz CL14

 

Something like this: https://www.pccomponentes.com/configurador/37A339CaF

 

Then for the GPU:

Rift-S: take RTX2070Super

Reverb: take RTX2080Super or RTX2080Ti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rift S is an 80Hz device, so need to only maintain 80 fps and is doable for the most part in IL-2. There can be some heavy scenarios ( like multiple AI/heavy combatscenarios, but for the most part will be at 80 fps - with a beefy rig such as I have in my sig.

 

Rift S is very easy to set up and user friendly, not much faffing about at all. It does not however have a manual IPD adjustment, but the range it works with 

is pretty good. I have been using mine pretty much daily since getting it in May, and works great for me.

 

I can not speak for other devices, Reverb will certainly have some better clarity but may require more TLC  to get it working proper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was looking at the rift S, however the main issue i have is the lack of interpupilary adjustment.  That might be what we settle with.  That  or a Samsung odyssey, though my main concern is that WMR doesn't seem to run super well in il2 especially when you factor in the lack of asynchronous space warp which can help a lot with lower fps settings.  We will most likely only be using the quick mission however since a lot of it is going to people who have never flown before so it will just be flying alone and we can add bombers or fighters for those with more experience.  Not to mention this will be offline due to the lack of internet at many airfields. Anyway thanks for the feedback.  

 

As far as fps goes no we are not looking for max settings as this is more of an experience for people to have.  Low settings is good enough for our purposes.  Main thing is to get as close as possible to 90 fps or 80 if we go with the rift s.  This is in a mission with 0 ai planes just flying around with mabey a few bombers or fighters but very small numbers of ai and no ground units.  I currently have a vr setup for this game with a vega 64 and a ryzen 5 2600 and a lenovo explorer and i can get around 60 fps in this and 45 in heavy missions on medium settings which for me is good enough.  The main concern here is people who have never used vr before we we want to reduce eye strain and motion sickness contributors as much as possible.  If it cannot be done its more than ok, however we just want to get as close as possible.  I have seen some numbers that look good on the forums on with this spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/edit#gid=46936995

however i was wondering if anyone could or has replicated the results for some of these tests or if there is a certain processor that is for whatever reason works very well with the game.  The p51 costs 4 thousand dollars a hour to fly so we are willing to spend a hefty sum of money building this, but again we don't want to spend a heap only to have a 5 fps difference as well

Edited by zdog0331

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lack of IPD adjustment in the Rift S is made up for by its superb lenses and large sweet spot. Honestly, it’s a great choice and will be easy to use for most people. I also think for just flying around (not combat) the 40 FPS ASW mode is great and allows you to get a lot more out of the PC hardware.

 

Chili already listed some good specs, I would +1 those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The specs posted by @chiliwili69 are along the right track. However, I'd suggest a few changes if you want to drop the price and get a better value.

-Basic motherboard that still has fairly reasonable power delivery for overclocking.

-Fast RAM that sacrifices the flashy aesthetics for lower cost.

-Removal of the additional hard drive for storage; a single 500 GB SSD is more than adequate for a single game.

-Less fancy case unless you really care about looks.

-Consider using a i5-9600K instead.

 

With those changes, you can get approximately the same performance but lower the price substantially. Here's a parts list from American sellers, minus the case and graphics card (I don't really know how to choose a case with good value and the GPU requirement really depends on the headset). I've quickly generated the list by skimming PCPartPicker, so it might not be optimal. Perhaps others can offer better suggestions.

Quote

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/qtdnL2

CPU: Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($359.99 @ Best Buy)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($132.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($177.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Team Dark Pro 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $980.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-16 02:19 EST-0500

 

It sounds like a cool project as long as you're confident that you won't encounter copyright issues from public performance.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea i definitely don't need a crazy enthusiast pc as il2 will be the only game being run.  I was also looking at the i7-4790k used as that seems to have some of the best performance in il2 as far as the spreadsheets go from some testing posted in some of the other chat rooms.  When OC'd and paired with a 1080 they were getting around 80 fps in vr according to the bench-marking tools.  One thing i am curious about are the new ryzen CPUs as they do have better single thread clock speeds than Intel, however also looking at the data intel has been doing better in this game when comparing similar clock speeds for intel vs amd though its really hard to fully tell in the spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/edit#gid=46936995

 

One thing to note is that this will be running on low settings as performance is prioritized over visuals in this case.

 

I mean a rig better priced out with the specs of chili's post was going  to be about 1400 for the pc alone; 2800 when all is said and done.  While I may be able to justify that, I think i may be able to get the cost a little better.  High fps is somewhat of a must though due to the motion sickness aspect of it. 

Edited by zdog0331

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, zdog0331 said:

WMR doesn't seem to run super well in il2 especially when you factor in the lack of asynchronous space warp

 

WMR has the "Motion Reprojection" which is the equivalent of Oculus ASW technology. You can activate that in a settings file. This is explained along this forum.

I was testing myself it myself with the Reverb and it was doing a very god job. So I think you could even have a less expensive card (like 2070Super) and rely on the "Motion Reprojection".

 

7 hours ago, zdog0331 said:

As far as fps goes no we are not looking for max settings as this is more of an experience for people to have.  Low settings is good enough for our purposes.

 

I understand your point, it will be just simple QMB, but you will not necessarily need to go to Low settings. Between Low and Ultra, you have Balanced and High. With Ultra and ASW tech you will be always at 80fps. Or with WMR and Motion Repro. Assuming the above PC.

Edited by chiliwili69

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i5 9600k is the performance/price winner for now, also easier to cool for 5.0 ghz overclock (easy auto) for best performance in VR. 

Easier on MB as well due to needing less power due to six cores vs eight which are not of much benefit in IL-2 

 

Cheers,, Dakpilot 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, zdog0331 said:

I have seen some numbers that look good on the forums on with this spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k/edit#gid=46936995

however i was wondering if anyone could or has replicated the results for some of these tests or if there is a certain processor that is for whatever reason works very well with the game.  The p51 costs 4 thousand dollars a hour to fly so we are willing to spend a hefty sum of money building this, but again we don't want to spend a heap only to have a 5 fps difference as well

 

Those tests were good to know a bit what influences IL-2 VR. Unfortunately we couldn´t mantain those test since the recorded track didn´t work in some game updates.

Anyhow, I think you can justify a fair budget assuming the PC is made to last, give minimum problems along his life.

Doing a moderate overclock (5.0) with the i5-9600K (soldered TIM) with a AIO water cooling will work under all external conditions (think on summer).

2 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

-Basic motherboard that still has fairly reasonable power delivery for overclocking.

-Fast RAM that sacrifices the flashy aesthetics for lower cost.

-Removal of the additional hard drive for storage; a single 500 GB SSD is more than adequate for a single game.

-Less fancy case unless you really care about looks

 

Fully agreed with this. My previous link of the PC was reused from a PC we bought at the office were we wanted to OC to max. (that gold flashy RAM was the only available at 3200HZ with CL14 latency).

 

If you want to low even more the above then go to the i5-9600K which is as overclockable as 9700K.

1 hour ago, zdog0331 said:

I was also looking at the i7-4790k

 

I have that CPU, but it was because I upgrade from a i7-4790 and reused the same MoBo. If I would go for a new PC today, I will definitely go to Intel 9th series (perhaps AMD).

With the 4790K you can hardly reach 5.0GHz. That´s why I run at 4.8Ghz only.

With the 9700K on the office we just spend 1 hour to reach 5.1GHz with 1.3V  (4 cores disabled and HT off) on the above mentioned PC. At CPU temp on 50C under usual load (1 core at 100%, it is also mostly a singlethreaded app).

Untitled.png.c37716732b73fbdf02edaea568b23bdd.png

 

9700K.thumb.png.b6658742b87ac5d7336ce8e22fd5e5b0.png

 

1 hour ago, zdog0331 said:

One thing i am curious about are the new ryzen CPUs as they do have better single thread clock speeds than Intel

This is not exactly true.

On singlethreaded performance I would say they are on pair know. Assuming you go to the max stable and safe OC reachable in each line. We still would need more data from AMD OC tests.:

 

1 hour ago, zdog0331 said:

I mean a rig better priced out with the specs of chili's post was going  to be about 1400 for the pc alone; 2800 when all is said and done.

 

With the Pcparticker budget (taking the i5-9600K, case , and small monitor) you are at 1000$. Then add 500$ for RTX2070Super. Then Rift-S at 450$. So you are 1950$ with a nice IL-VR system. 80fps guaranteed at High settings in QMB solo flights with ASW off.

Then with ASW you can go to Ultra and put all AI/bombers you want.

Edited by chiliwili69

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the in depth post chili.  A far as the wmr motion re-projection.  I had enabled it, though the big issue i had was for whatever reason certain textures on the planes such as the ammo counter on the German aircraft would do these weird bendy warping things which was really jarring. Like they would randomly go from a strait line into a zigzag with as much of as as 4 90 degree bends that were constantly morphing into other weird shapes.  Have yet to try the occulus so not sure if that still occurs there, but i heard their re-projection system is pretty darn good

 

I most likely would go with the higher budget specs, however as far as a proposal goes i need to explore all of the options available. 

 

Anyway thank you chili you have been extremely helpful.

Edited by zdog0331

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the same with any ASW technology in IL-2. Games that share the depth buffer are rare, so you'll find it anywhere.

 

As it has been said before, build the PC around the headset. What's your target regarding time? Since this is for professional use, I suspect that money is of secondary thought.

 

 

If you want the best experience, you cannot get around the Pimax 8KX or 8K+, which come in ruggedized editions by default, and will offer the best comfort of any headset on the market. During the last 2 days there were VRDays in the Netherlands, and everyone who tried the headset stated that it offered better comfort than Reverb, Index, or Rift S. Specs-wise, they surpass anything right now regarding FOV and resolution as well.

 

Using Lighthouse Stations, these can also be implemented in motion simulators, which most other headsets apart from the Index cannot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea.  The wide fov would have been optimal, however inside out tracking is required for what we are doing as this is going to be traveling.  It needs to be portable above all things due to the constant moving and setting up.  This will be at places such as Oshkosh, the Reno, and other airshows along with events we do from time to time so this will be basically constantly transported in the trunk of a car to various events by different people so obviously ease of use is a big thing since we need to be able to set it up easily and the base stations is simply too much of a hassle because we need to set them up somewhere and what we will have is a tent and table and the tents with the wind do sometimes fly away until eventual caught so we really don't want to have to replace those base stations every time there is wind not to mention if we put them on poles we still run the risk of a bystander knocking those down. 

 

As far as time, it is just being put into motion so probably next year since we need to put funds aside to build it.  Fun fact about motions simulators we were actually offered by a buy who built one at MIT when he was getting his degree.  It was extremely expensive however and required a truck to pull it around and no one in our area owns a truck with enough HP to pull it considering we need to go over mountains to get to some of our events.  Just not really worth it not to mention if something goes wrong it would be a nightmare to fix and costly.  We can replace PC parts much easier along with our flight sim gear is easy to fix/replace compared to the full motion so its just not very doable considering how we operate.

 

But thanks for the information regarding the pi max.  It or the index will probably be my next personal headset since I'm still sitting with my Lenovo explorer.  I like it, but i do want something a little better after having used it for a year an a half

 

Edited by zdog0331

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are going to need a good heavy duty quality case preferably one with horizontal motherboard and vertical graphics card, more durable IMHO. 

Also don't skimp on PSU and Motherboard, cables etc. Even the smaller components will need to be given consideration as to frequent set up and teardown to avoid unreliability 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We will be making a custom case. by hand so that it can best suit our needs to keep the computer from being damaged

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...