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Rigsby

Will there be other maps?

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Seriously though, the Hurricane is a serious contender for a Murmansk map, having both a colourful story up North and serving in large numbers both with the Soviet airforce  and the naval aviation.

 

I've always had a strange wish to be catapulted off a merchant ship in a Hurricat too. 

 

ae47.jpg

Edited by Feathered_IV

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What is a realistic plane set for Murmansk? Both axis and allies.

For the Soviets a relatively high number of land-lease aircraft (A-20, Hurricane, P-39, P-40) together with the usual Russian aircraft types.

 

On the German side it took some time for Luftwaffe fighter units to receive the latest aircraft types in significant numbers, so the Bf-109E7 was still used in the fighter role in 1942 and even in 1944 there were still lots of Bf-109G2. The first Fw-190 arrived in early 1943 but were only used as fighter-bombers by 14.(Jabo)/JG5.  Stuka units were only active for a short time in the area and as far as I know were transfered in early 1942. Bomber units equipped with He-111 and Ju-88 left the area at the end of 1942, although Ju-88 remaind active as reconnaissance aircraft.

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For the Soviets a relatively high number of land-lease aircraft (A-20, Hurricane, P-39, P-40) together with the usual Russian aircraft types.

 

On the German side it took some time for Luftwaffe fighter units to receive the latest aircraft types in significant numbers, so the Bf-109E7 was still used in the fighter role in 1942 and even in 1944 there were still lots of Bf-109G2. The first Fw-190 arrived in early 1943 but were only used as fighter-bombers by 14.(Jabo)/JG5.  Stuka units were only active for a short time in the area and as far as I know were transfered in early 1942. Bomber units equipped with He-111 and Ju-88 left the area at the end of 1942, although Ju-88 remaind active as reconnaissance aircraft.

 

The 110 was also in use with 13.(Z)/JG5, and had some success as a fighter in the early stages.

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The 110 was also in use with 13.(Z)/JG5, and had some success as a fighter in the early stages.

Correct, after Ju-87, Ju-88 and He-111 had left the area, only the Bf-110 of 13.(Z)/JG5 and the Fw-190 from 14.(Jabo)/JG5 were available for ground attack missions.

 

Reconnaissance planes were Ju-88D and Fw-189. I think there were also detachments from seaplane units active in the area, but I don't have any detailed information on them.

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Interesting Murmansk theatre fact ;)

 

Kirkenes, on the Map and the main German base, was the second most Bombed City in Europe, with Valetta, Malta being the first, there were more than 300 raids

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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The 110 was also in use with 13.(Z)/JG5, and had some success as a fighter in the early stages.

 

The sea was patrolled by long range aircrafts. I envision some very interesting fights between heavy fighters like P-3 and Bf 110s over the grey sea.

 

5 most common leand-lease aircrafts received by the Soviets by number:

 

Aircobra:       4 747

Hurricane:     2 952

Boston:         2 908

King Cobra:  2 400

P-40:            2 097

 

The reason I mention Hurricane specificity is that a lot of Hurricanes was delivered by ship to Murmansk from the UK, while the Aircobras were often flown in via Alaska. Thus Hurricanes were typically flown a lot up North, at their entry point.

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Wow what an interesting theater. I was weary of doing an eastern front again after BoM. But this looks like the perfect setting. I hope the deva are seriously considering the next installment after BOMoscow. But I hope its.not called BOMUR. Lol

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Plane set depends of course of the selected time frame. Axis planes are anyway more or less covered with BoS and BoM, although there should be some different models of the existing planes. For soviet side hurricane is quite essential in that front.

 

 Stuka units were only active for a short time in the area

 

According to Hannu Valtonen, Northern flank of Luftwaffe; German air force in Finland and Northern Norway 1941-1944 I/St.G 5 was stationed at Nautsi, about 150 km west from Murmansk still at 11.10.1943 with about 40 Ju 87s. This is also confirmed by Henry L. de Zeng IV and Douglas G. Stankey in Dive-Bomber and Ground-Attack Units of the Luftwaffe 1933-1945.

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According to Hannu Valtonen, Northern flank of Luftwaffe; German air force in Finland and Northern Norway 1941-1944 I/St.G 5 was stationed at Nautsi, about 150 km west from Murmansk still at 11.10.1943 with about 40 Ju 87s. This is also confirmed by Henry L. de Zeng IV and Douglas G. Stankey in Dive-Bomber and Ground-Attack Units of the Luftwaffe 1933-1945.

It seems my information concerning the absence of Stukas after early 1942 was not correct. I completely forgot the units based further south at Alakurtti (Stg 5), which will probably not be part of the Murmansk map. Their main target was the railway line to Murmansk, but they also flew some missions to the port of Murmansk.

 

I./SG5 was formed at Nautsi from I./Stg5 in late 1943, but I am not sure how active the unit really was in the Murmansk area during the short time in northern Finland. They were soon send to the south.

 

By the way, for a short periode there also was a night fighter unit at Nautsi (Nachtjagdstaffel Finnland), but they had very few aircraft (Bf-110G4, Ju-88C/G and surprisingly even a single He-219).

Edited by Juri_JS

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Was surprised to find that some  Armstrong Whitworth A.W.41 Albemarle were operated at Murmansk by the Russians (only 12 delivered) not an aircraft I was familiar with at all, considering 600 were produced

 

Sorry for the slightly off topic but you learn something new every day :) on topic Mig-3 and Rata were used at Murmansk long after withdrawn from service in other theatres

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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The Albemarle?

 

That thing that looks like the bastard child of a Bristol Blenheim and a Hadley-Page Hampden?

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Lots of good suggestions being made, and I'd like to follow some of these up.  Does anyone have any references that I could look up?

 

Also, was the Heinkel He-115 seaplane used that far north?

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Also, was the Heinkel He-115 seaplane used that far north?

Yes, Küstenfliegergruppe 406 had a detachment equipped with He-115 at Kirkenes

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I hope to see at least 2 theaters from them in the next year? like BOT, or BOMUR, or BOMED, or, BOI, BOBLCKSEA etc.. etc..

Edited by 71st_Mastiff

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According to Black Cross / Red Star Vol. I :

On June 22, 1941, the Soviet air units deployed in defense of the Kola Peninsula in the Artic area were :

 

VVS Fourteenth Army :

  • 1 SAD, consisting three regiments (137BAP at Afrikanda Airdrome with thirty-eight SBs, reinforced with eighteen SBs on June 29th)
  • 145 IAP at Shonguy Airdrome with fifty-six I16s
  • 147 IAP at Murmashi Airdrome with thirty-four I-153s and nineteen I-15bis

VVS-SF (North Sea Fleet):

  • 72 SAP at Vayenga Airdrome, with four I-16s, seventeen I-153s, twenty-eight I-15bis and eleven SBs (reinforced on June 29 with twelve I-16s)
  • 118 RAP at the hydro airfield at Guba Gryaznaya with thirty-seven MBR-2s and seven GST
  • 49 ORAE with ten MBR-2s and 24 Aviazveno with two MBR-2s

 

On June 22, 1941, Generaloberst Hans-Jürgen Stumpf’s Luftflotte 5 comprised a total of 240 aircrafts in Norway and a small detachment in Finland. The main units were KG30, I/KG26, parts of JG77, and IV.(St.)/LG1. The units brought up against the Soviet Union before the outbreak of the war were organized in Luftwaffekommando Kirkenes under Obers Andreas Nielsen. On June 22 he had the following units at his disposal:

  • 5./KG 30 at Banak (northern  Norway) with ten Ju-88s
  • IV.(St.)/LG 1 at Kirkenes (northern  Norway) with thirty-six Ju-87s
  • 13./JG 77 at Kirkenes with ten Bf-109s
  • Stab/ZG 76 at Kirkenes with six Bf-110s
  • 1.(F)/124 at Kirkenes with three Ju-88s
  • 1.(H)/32 at Kemijärvi and Rovaniemi (Finland) with seven Hs 126 and three Do-17P
  • 1./KüFlGr 406 at Banak with He-115s and Do-18s
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Wow. The Germans were outnumbered quite heavily, especially in the fighter department. Those 16 Bf 109s (Emils I presume) and Bf 110s against around ten times that number single seat fighters (all of them I-16s, 15s and 153s but still...)

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Wow. The Germans were outnumbered quite heavily, especially in the fighter department. Those 16 Bf 109s (Emils I presume) and Bf 110s against around ten times that number single seat fighters (all of them I-16s, 15s and 153s but still...)

Yeah, it was another scale than the fights taking place on the other parts of the front. Reinforcements arrived later on both sides, notably I/JG77 and the rest of II/KG30 for the Germans, while the Russian got their first Hurricanes IIb in late August (along with RAF 81 Squadron) and some LaGG-3s.

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  • 1.(F)/124 at Kirkenes with three Ju-88s

That would be a recon unit, I guess. I wonder if variants of the Ju 88 (such as the D-1 recon version) would be in BoM?

 

 

 

 

  • 1.(H)/32 at Kemijärvi and Rovaniemi (Finland) with seven Hs 126 and three Do-17P

 

What sort of unit is 1.(H)/32 ?

 

I went searching and could only find http://www.luftwaffe.no/1H32.html which didn't really help me. Is this also recon?

 

 

 

  • 1./KüFlGr 406 at Banak with He-115s and Do-18s

 

He-115... *drool*

 

I would _so_ love to be able to fly an He-115 !!!!

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"I would _so_ love to be able to fly an He-115 !!!!"

 

post-6177-0-16341500-1440497755_thumb.jpg

 

Technically no reason why not :biggrin: (other than time and money) 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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What sort of unit is 1.(H)/32 ?

(H)/32 = Aufklärungsgruppe 32

 

(H) is used for reconnaissance units operating over and directly behind the frontline. (F) units flew long-range reconnaissance missions far behind the frontline.

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Update from Murmansk team:

 

post-12896-0-03806900-1440262939.jpg

 

post-12896-0-04445400-1441314588.jpg

 

post-12896-0-28677500-1441318441.gif

Edited by PA-Sniv
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Wow! Murmansk is looking fantastic... I'm _really_ looking forward to this one.

 

(Now, if I can just get that He 115 too!)

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So Murmansk... Looking forward to Buffalo, Airacobra, Hurricane, Blenheim, SB2, IL4... and I-153 Chaika   :)

Edited by II./JG1_Baron

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Lookss great so far!

 

Any word on whether this will be a free map like VLuki, or is it going to be a full game like BOS, BOM?

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Murmansk... oh yes. Will be great if we can get the correct aircraft set for it at some stage too... I can see 151 Wing RAF right now, patrolling out from Vaenga in Hurri MkIIb's, or escorting Pe-2's out to Petsamo and back etc...

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Murmansk... oh yes. Will be great if we can get the correct aircraft set for it at some stage too... I can see 151 Wing RAF right now, patrolling out from Vaenga in Hurri MkIIb's, or escorting Pe-2's out to Petsamo and back etc...

looks like that best , or one of best variants for all of us and historically correct Murmansk/BOM/BOS is Africa-1942 with Hurri Mk 2, Tomahawk, and Sptifire Mk V or P-39 plus Macchi 200 also for EF'41-42, Bf 109 E/F/G Trop also for summer BOS (and even G-2 1.42 ata for historically correct Africa'42, BOS'42, and mid of EF'43) and D.520 etc.

Edited by bivalov
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Let's hope the development of the Murmansk map continues.

From what I've understand one of the team members stopped working on the map for private reasons.

Don't know how many people are involved in it but at least it means a slow down.

 

Read from post #314:

 

https://translate.google.nl/translate?hl=nl&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.il2sturmovik.ru%2Ftopic%2F3109-murmansk-rabota-nad-kartoj%2Fpage-8

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Why don't any of the images of the WIP map show up for me?

 

Gents, obviously I don't know, but from what I understand from the googlified Russian forum (not much of course), perhaps our focus should be on the fact that a map-dude, clearly a really gifted one, has had some serious personal stuff (RL - to use my squadron's argot) going on. 

 

Obviously, I hope he gets back to the map, but most importantly, I wish him well with whatever's going on with his life. Good luck with it all, my friend.

 

Forza Tovarich!  :salute: [To mix a couple of languages.]  

 

[if the images are gone, I think that's part of the map-dude's stuff. Hopefully Sokol will be along soon with a proper translation/interpretation!]

Edited by No601_Swallow
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My Russian isn't perfect, but here goes a short summary of things:

 

  1. Andrei (abr) has left the development of the map
  2. He is alive and well
  3. The map's development might continue without him, and he has passed on all his material and work to the other map makers

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