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On 12/25/2019 at 5:11 PM, simpit1 said:

After successful repairing and rearming starting the motor of the Me 109 G6 cannot be practised. The automatic start-routine only starts the electrictric devices and than stops! Probably due to fuel-status 0% although complete refueling (see below).

Hi 

this seems not to be an RRR bug.

It looks like that some of the Me 109 versions  have an engine (re-)start bug if the plane started the mission "on runway" or "in air".

See dambous post here:

 

The fuel status 0 is normal if you turn off the engine (Instruments are shut down so fuel  display goes to 0) you can check tis by starting a quick mission "on parking". Fuel indicator shows 0, start the engine and it goes up to show how much fuel is loaded, turn the engine off it goes down to 0, turn the engine on again (wich is working fine if you started the plane  "on parking") and also the loaded fuel will be shown again. 

 

 

EDIT: Found a workaround:

 

In the realism options -> Pilots assistance -> uncheck all three (four):  Thruttle auto limit, Engine auto control and Radiator assisist (restart  engine wount work as long as one of them is checked) and the engine will start again.

To find out the maximum checkable options I tested a bit more and found out that "Cruise control" has to be unchecked too.

OR

2ndEDIT:  a better workaround:

(based on "normal realism" -  w/o "cruise control")

It's enougth to disable the automatics just before restarting the engine. Disable them by using (default:) Left shift+R, Lshift+N and Lshift+M.

After the engine started they can be enabled again with the same keys.

Edited by CorvusX

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Ok, you are right!

 

I just tried it in a QM in which no RRR is possible and - same bug with a Me 190 G6 after landing during a successful mission. So it´s a common bug appearing in all kinds of missions!

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Yea, I think it's good to note, any planes you think you have trouble with on the re-start, make sure you test re-starting the plane without RRR. I ran into that with the Mk.Vb and thought I had trouble with the P51, need to test the Mk.IX more. I've have multiple times where i lose my trim after repair, but I'm not sure if it's the RRR or re-start, etc. 

 

Sometimes when I RRR and have enough damage it seems I need to start the plane after the repair, then shut it back down and do my RR and start it back up. It's like it doesn't always fully shut down after repair, hit E and it starts up, hit E and it finishes shutting down, now RR, start/shut down, RR re-start and fly. 

 

But I use RRR all the time, it's been working great overall, just need to pay a attention and be patient through the RRR process. Test re-starts without RRR.

 

Pretty cool to just barely make it back, RRR, bandits shoot you, RRR, fly, or RRR bandits kill you, game over. Definitely extends single player mission time...  

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I have yet to see the dserver.exe crash again after re-enabling RRR a day ago, however right after re-enabling and testing RRR online, I've become victim of the next alleged RRR bug.

See the video below, RRR happens at about 2:00 and 3:26 (same RRR event, two perspectives).

 

Apparently each little part being repaired causes a little explosion to happen, with the first one throwing the poor IL-2 into the air violently and subsequent explosions throwing it around a little.

Seconds before RRR happens, an artillery shell impacts about 20 meters off the plane (see thumbnail picture).

This should have no impact on the RRR event, I'm just mentioning it so people don't confuse one with the other.

The "explosions" seen at each RRR part being repaired are definitely not from any arty shell or the like, they're coming out of nowhere.

Here's the sortie log: http://sas1946.rocks:8000/en/sortie/log/15756/?tour=1

There's two damage events: No. 1 at 18:23:06 is from touching trees (that's where I lost my right aileron), No. 2 is the RRR event.

 

I've got the track of this sortie so if devs need it, give me a shout.

 

animated-new-years-eve-smiley-image-0004

Mike

  • Haha 1

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@SAS_Storebror I don't think this is a bug and you have debris or something causing your plane not to repair properly. (this is clarification for Habu)

 

I only see this if the planes are trying to repair and there is debris in the way, near, your on top of a bunker or crashed into something. 

 

I use the Mk.IX, did a lot of variation on damage, emergency landings, coming in dead stick. It's only when running into objects, being near some objects/debris that problems start.

 

I crashed and ended up half on/off a bunker, dead. RRR started, brought me back to life, then the plane repaired on top of the bunker wing stayed cracked.

Here's where things got interesting. I tried turning the engines on/off to see what happens. Plane moved a bit, tried to turn over and then the explosions start. 

 

So I think the artillery, or debris from the objects nearby; even if you might not be able to see some small piece of debris, if it's there, it's probably causing the problem.  Try making sure your not so close to the truck, explosions, busted up tower, etc. and see if you still have the problem when your well clear of any possible objects. 

 

Here's a video of what I described. No objects or debris, I never have an issue. 

 

Edited by WWDriftwood

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Driftwood, you use the RRR in a location where you can have a problem.

 

For me (i talk only for me) the damaged/destroyed plane which goes in the shelter mustn't be repaired. He's too damaged. The pilot must do a finish mission. The repair is (again for me) only for small damage.

 

And as you can see, the repair process depends of the position of the plane when you start the repair. As you are in a shelter, too close from the wood, the game repair the plane and locate him at a bad position. I'm surprised that it twists the plane to repair it.

 

There are no automatic location for RRR which avoid collision with object (it's to the mission builder to have a good location for RRR), it depends of the location of the plane when you stop the engine. So you use it and try to use it in a situation where it will never work. And for me, with some damage where it should never works (but that point is only my point of view).

 

In any case, there is no bug, only a bad use of the RRR location in a close area.

Edited by Habu

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6 hours ago, Habu said:

Driftwood, you use the RRR in a location where you can have a problem.

 

For me (i talk only for me) the damaged/destroyed plane which goes in the shelter mustn't be repaired. He's too damaged. The pilot must do a finish mission. The repair is (again for me) only for small damage.

 

And as you can see, the repair process depends of the position of the plane when you start the repair. As you are in a shelter, too close from the wood, the game repair the plane and locate him at a bad position. I'm surprised that it twists the plane to repair it.

 

There are no automatic location for RRR which avoid collision with object (it's to the mission builder to have a good location for RRR), it depends of the location of the plane when you stop the engine. So you use it and try to use it in a situation where it will never work. And for me, with some damage where it should never works (but that point is only my point of view).

 

In any case, there is no bug, only a bad use of the RRR location in a close area.

 

I agree Habu, (My response was to SAS I just didn't clarify - no bug," but that was the whole point of my post was to point out to SAS_ that this only happens when you crash or you have some kind of debris in the way. So yes, you have to finish mission/restart mission, but this is not a bug in the RRR (unless devs want to program something that recognizes this is happening and the game deems the pilot dead and un-reparable.) 

 

Quote

And as you can see, the repair process depends of the position of the plane when you start the repair. As you are in a shelter, too close from the wood, the game repair the plane and locate him at a bad position. I'm surprised that it twists the plane to repair it.

 

I agree, that's what the video demonstrates, "you can't repair if your plane is crashed into something". so "if someone sees this behavior, explosions when repairing" and "it's not obvious there crashed into something or debris," most likely it's just some debris you can't see that is causing the problem. I would not call that a bug with RRR, it's just you can't be repaired.

 

So just to clarify my "good " report card on the RRR 

I successfully use RRR on a regular basis with no problems

But there are 3 points to be clarified when using RRR - from my personal experience

  1. (if debris/or/objects are in the way stopping repairs causing a repair loop, just finish mission or SP/ restart mission)
  2. (If you have problems restarting the plane, or issues with the plane after repair and restart - go test the plane without RRR and land, shut down, restart, or just restart the plane a few times without any RRR, I think you will find it's the plane, not the RRR. Unless you can show something that only happens when RRR has taken place.)
  3. When damage causes your engine to stop running without manually shutting the engine off and gets repaired, sometimes you can't rearm/refuel until you restart your engines and then shut the engines off again - then try the rearm/refuel, should work fine. 

Hope that helps......... 

 

Edited by WWDriftwood

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Thanks for the feedback gentlemen but please enlighten me:

If this is not a bug and any invisible debris could cause your plane to get completely destroyed from RRR'ing it, how on earth is a player supposed to know in advance whether a position is "good" for RRR or "bad"?

I mean yes, you could specify things like "don't RRR inside shelter" or "don't RRR within 5 meters distance to a visible object".

But in case of the video I've posted, there is no such thing.

The plane's standing on grass, no other object nearby.

 

And if invisible debris from artillery shells could cause this to happen, then in my humble opinion this is definitely an RRR bug.

I think so because it's impossible neither to the player nor the mission designer to avoid it.

For instance, as a mission designer I could put an RRR zone in the wilderness, with nothing else around it within a mile distance, and with no other actor doing anything with, in or to that zone.

The next player who comes along and drops a bomb right in the middle of that RRR zone would render all these efforts futile because the debris of the bomb would make the RRR spot unusable for the remaining mission: Without any warning to other players, the RRR zone would turn itself into a killzone for anyone attempting to RRR there.

 

Bug or not?

I don't see how this could not be a bug.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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9 minutes ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen but please enlighten me:

If this is not a bug and any invisible debris could cause your plane to get completely destroyed from RRR'ing it, how on earth is a player supposed to know in advance whether a position is "good" for RRR or "bad"?

I mean yes, you could specify things like "don't RRR inside shelter" or "don't RRR within 5 meters distance to a visible object".

But in case of the video I've posted, there is no such thing.

The plane's standing on grass, no other object nearby.

 

And if invisible debris from artillery shells could cause this to happen, then in my humble opinion this is definitely an RRR bug.

I think so because it's impossible neither to the player nor the mission designer to avoid it.

For instance, as a mission designer I could put an RRR zone in the wilderness, with nothing else around it within a mile distance, and with no other actor doing anything with, in or to that zone.

The next player who comes along and drops a bomb right in the middle of that RRR zone would render all these efforts futile because the debris of the bomb would make the RRR spot unusable for the remaining mission: Without any warning to other players, the RRR zone would turn itself into a killzone for anyone attempting to RRR there.

 

Bug or not?

I don't see how this could not be a bug.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

I'm moving my RRR truck and making sure the maintenance radius is set so there is nothing in the maintenance radius other than the truck and "I put a red flag next to it" I set the flag radius the same as the truck radius since the flag radius is displayed in the mission editor with the yellow circle. Now I can position it as a group where I like and know where the RRR radius is. 

 

So I want to make sure there are not bunkers, AAA, or anything within the radius area for any planes to crash into or get hung up on. The only thing that can happen is if a plane crashes and leaves debris that doesn't disappear, or you run into the RRR Truck itself. Basically need to get a little creative with placement and radius size. 

 

On one airfield which was a race track shape, I put an RRR Truck at the end of the runway on the grass only. You could land, takeoff, taxi the entire runway/taxiway without any RRR. If you can get to the RRR area, no RRR, no soup for you! LOL

 

So your RRR area is not as forging, If you want RRR, you land and pull into the grass at the end of the runway, or no RRR. But it's less likely you will have issues with a repair loop because of constant damage while repairing. 

 

I agree having to explain to everyone flying a mission the do's/don'ts when you can/can't RRR is a bit of a pain. 

 

I/we just go with / if it works RRR - if it's not working, consider your plane damaged beyond repair and just finish mission and re-plane or restart SP mission. If getting a new plane is not an option in the mission and the RRR doesn't repair, then your beyond repair/or/dead/etc.   

 

Maybe at some point the devs can program something in to recognize conditions are not right for repair and just give a "damaged beyond repair message or something." 

 

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Let me rephrase this a tad simpler:

Debris should never cause RRR to turn into a plane destruction zone.

Never ever.

Let alone invisible debris.

That on it's own is a bug to me and should be put on the list of things to fix, not on the list of things to deal with on the mission builder / player's end.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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3 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen but please enlighten me:

If this is not a bug and any invisible debris could cause your plane to get completely destroyed from RRR'ing it, how on earth is a player supposed to know in advance whether a position is "good" for RRR or "bad"?

My previous answer wasn't for you, but to Driftwood.

 

To answer to your question, answer to the following question : Did you put any RRR station in a battle area which can be attacked by enemie in close combat ?

For me, the answer is no, as it is in the real life. Maintenance operation are stopped and not perform under attack.

 

For me RRR area must be to a logical position, and not use as pit stop. Player has to taxi to go to the RRR area. If they can't, it means (for me) that the plane can't be repair.

 

About the invisible debris, i didn't encouter it during my multiplayer test. One of them was straffing a plane which is using RRR, another one was to drop a bomb on a plane which is using RRR, and we didn't notice any problem ofg that kind. But it doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist.

 

 

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Habu I've sent you the track (which naturally also holds the mission files) so you've got everything you need to make up your mind now.

If you still think invisible debris should cause RRR zones to kill planes, then I'll simply give up on this issue.

I've got enough of such "oh well, let's change the manual" reactions to bugreports @work, no need to waste my time on something similar when I'm longing for recreation.

No hard feelings.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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I have a look, and i don't know what you call invisible debris ?

 

I think that when the plane is in the air and suffer damage, it's some ground explosion (even if in the track it seems that it's a MG damage, hard to say) which is buged by the fact that the plane is in the air. Maybe for the game, the location of the plane is still on the ground, except that it's in the air.

 

I didn't say that invisible debris should kill plane. I talked about the location of your RRR which is bad for me.

 

But now, i say that debris (if debris are invisible, it's a bug) must killed or damaged plane. You can't expect than a plane wich is repairing and suferring damage at the same time will be fine at the end. The plane is not protect when is repairing. That's why you have to locate the RRR area in a safe area.

 

There is one thing which is a bug, which is when the plane is throw in the air. But it can be the combination of repainig and receiving damage at the same time when the repair is finished. I don't know but there is something which have to be fixed.

 

I'll try to reproduce that when i have time.

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For me this is only something that happens if you crash into something or your too close to something that's blown up like the tower in SAS_'s video. If you can RRR with the same plane, same area, minus the blown up tower and artillery going off. Then I would just call it a placement problem. Each time the artillery explodes, then the plane explodes. It doesn't look like the plane your repairing every gets shut down? 

 

Try parking 2-3 times farther from those objects when you do the RRR. if you have no problems, then again I'd call it a placement problem. Just adjust the RRR area to be free of objects in a largest enough area to be safe, other than some plane flying in and crashing, (or colliding with another plane) should avoid this from happening. 

 

Habu - my plane didn't start exploding until I started my engines while it's crashed into the bunker. Can't remember if I then shut it down, or if I could shut it down to see if the repair explosions stopped. But while engines were off, it repair in place, no explosions, hit E, tried to start but couldn't and started repair explosions. 

 

 

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It will be hard to reproduce it, but i'll try.

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Might just try to taxi a plane into a bunker like in my video, or taxi into a static plane, AAA, anything you can get hung up on while in the RRR maintenance area and try to break the prob and get the engine to stop. Once it happens hit E to shut the engine down. Let it repair, and assume you will be stuck on something or bumping into something during and after repair. See what happens. If you get no explosions but it keeps repairing or just repairs and sits there. Hit E to start the engines. That's when I'll start seeing the repair explosions. 

 

But if I get this, it means I'm not going anywhere anyways. SAS_'s was a little more unique because you couldn't see anything he was hung up on, yet the plane was right next to something that bombed tower which stayed after it was damaged, followed by artillery, etc. So I still suspect there were objects interfering with the planes repair. 

 

But that's basically it, run the plane into something it stays next to or hung up on to cause interference. - avoidable with placement / if you make the maintenance area outside regular activity/traffic/objects you eliminate most chances of this happening.  

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I'm going to try to reproduce the situation of SAS_Storebror.

 

What you describe for you is a bad location. For my tests, we use RRR pretty close to a GMC and we don't have problem.

 

For me the problem could be in the addition of damage object, or suffering damage at a specific timing when the RRR is used which will be hard to reproduce.

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I can definitely say that at the time or RRR'ing that IL-2 in my video, there was no damage added to it.

The artillery shell coming in nearby is way before RRR starts and there's no other arty shell or anything else which could damage the plane after that.

It's the RRR process itself that throws the plane in the air violently, and further throws it up a second time split seconds thereafter.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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There are damages when you are in the RRR area. We can see them and see shell explosion close to the plane in your track.

 

Do you have a tacview record of that track ?

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1 hour ago, Habu said:

I'm going to try to reproduce the situation of SAS_Storebror.

 

What you describe for you is a bad location. For my tests, we use RRR pretty close to a GMC and we don't have problem.

 

For me the problem could be in the addition of damage object, or suffering damage at a specific timing when the RRR is used which will be hard to reproduce.

 

You can put the RRR anywhere, I can park very close to the service truck or anything (not bombed and in tact) anywhere and have no problems. 

 

The only time you have a problem is if you crash into something, or so close a wing is going through some object. Basically sharing the same space. So repairs may happen and your stuck, or they happen and the object is still partially in your plane, either way you can move, properly restart the engine, or repair loop happens since some small damage takes place after repair. I may or may not get the repair explosions, either way I lose the plane. 

 

So placing the RRR only reduces the odds of a repair taking place if something like this happens. If I only have the RRR Truck in the repair area (since it's the center of the service area), and I crash into the RRR truck, then the same thing can happen. Again if it's the only thing in the service area, then it's the only thing you can crash into and should be the only way you would get the weird repair, that or your it's in a odd place and the ground is not level. 

 

So place the RRR anywhere, just understand the more objects in the maintenance area the more chances a pilot can crash or bump into something sharing the same space as your plane; or be near an object that gets destroyed, stays damaged; and is not deleted from the map. 

 

40 minutes ago, SAS_Storebror said:

I can definitely say that at the time or RRR'ing that IL-2 in my video, there was no damage added to it.

The artillery shell coming in nearby is way before RRR starts and there's no other arty shell or anything else which could damage the plane after that.

It's the RRR process itself that throws the plane in the air violently, and further throws it up a second time split seconds thereafter.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

How many times has this happened, explosions during repair? 3 times, 1 time, all the time? 

If so, what are the other conditions when the explosions happening during repair? 

Does it happen under regular RRR, no artillery, no damaged objects near by, etc.?

Which planes? I see the IL2 in your video, you can see the MkIX in my video, I'm not seeing a lot of posts about planes exploding during repairs being reported... 

 

Out of 50+++ using the RRR service truck with the Mk.V, Mk.IX, P51, F4, Yak7B........ I've only seen this 3 times, every time it was obvious the issue was as described above. 

 

I guess that's why I don't think of it as a bug, unless the devs expect the RRR and interaction with crashing into objects/sharing space with objects during repairs to behave differently. 

 

I ran some more test just running into objects, etc, same results as far as repairs, repair loop, can start or move, for obvious reasons, but no explosions on repairs, that's more rare under these circumstances.

 

Hope that helps, 

 

I just hate to see mission builders or users get discourage about using the RRR Service...   

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5 hours ago, Habu said:

There are damages when you are in the RRR area. We can see them and see shell explosion close to the plane in your track.

 

That happens several seconds before RRR and the artillery shell explosion radius doesn't even touch the plane's location.

Add to that, another IL-2 standing right next to me, but without missing parts (remember my right aileron was missing) could repair flawlessly.

The damages are to the control tower which is roughly 20 meters away.

There is no visible debris where I stand when repairing and there is no explosion at the moment I'm repairing either.

 

5 hours ago, Habu said:

Do you have a tacview record of that track ?

 

Yep, sent to you by PM.

 

 

5 hours ago, WWDriftwood said:

How many times has this happened, explosions during repair? 3 times, 1 time, all the time?

 

I've seen it a couple of times in the past but not as severe as this one.

This time is the first time it was really plain obvious that something went wrong, the previous times when it happened I thought "wtf !?!?" but couldn't really make up my mind.

With hindsight it's been the same thing and it happened like a dozen of times within about two weeks of using RRR on our server.

It does not happen all the time.

There are flawless repairs as well.

The IL-2 next to me for instance repaired flawlessly at the same time and almost same spot (10 meters to my right).

 

5 hours ago, WWDriftwood said:

what are the other conditions when the explosions happening during repair?

 

Seemingly random.

If it's because of debris, then it's invisible debris.

 

5 hours ago, WWDriftwood said:

Does it happen under regular RRR, no artillery, no damaged objects near by, etc.?

Which planes?

 

I don't consider a crashed tower 20 meters off as "nearby" and there is no artillery shell hitting me here either.

Anyway, the answer is: Yes, happens elsewhere and with any other plane as well.

 

5 hours ago, WWDriftwood said:

I don't think of it as a bug, unless the devs expect the RRR and interaction with crashing into objects/sharing space with objects during repairs to behave differently.

 

I am not crashed into objects and not sharing space with any other objects during repair either.

Spot the repetition of that false assumption please guys.

Repeating it doesn't make it true.

 

5 hours ago, WWDriftwood said:

I just hate to see mission builders or users get discourage about using the RRR Service...   

 

Too late.

Damage to RRR reputation has already been done.

Continuing to treat this bug as a feature will only make matters worse.

 

:drinks:

Mike

Edited by SAS_Storebror
typo

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1 hour ago, SAS_Storebror said:

I am not crashed into objects and not sharing space with any other objects during repair either.

Spot the repetition of that false assumption please guys.

Repeating it doesn't make it true.

 

It's not a false assumption, I'm saying "in all my tests, that's when I have the issue I see in your video" "when I run into something or share the same space" 

I've personally never ever had repair issues unless I'm crashed into something and I'm next to it or share space with an object. 

 

That's why I was asking the questions to see how unique the situation in your video was, how often, etc... I've not seen it myself without the above. 

 

1 hour ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Too late.

Damage to RRR reputation has already been done.

Continuing to treat this bug as a feature will only make matters worse.

  

Feature, really, LOL, come on now..... 

 

Well, don't use RRR then... hope you get it sorted out. cheers... 

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2 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Too late.

Damage to RRR reputation has already been done.

Continuing to treat this bug as a feature will only make matters worse.

The RRR "reputation" was link to the bug of the oil radiator which is fixed. And talking about reputation is a bit strong.

 

The bug you show is the first time i see it, and i never see it when i ran my test on the oil radiator.

 

No one said that it's a feature, what i said it's that using repair area in a combat area is a non sens  for me.

 

 

2 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:
8 hours ago, Habu said:

Do you have a tacview record of that track ?

 

Yep, sent to you by PM.

Thx.

I see nothing which can help me in the tacview record.😓

 

 

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This is something I seen 5-6 times. Repair doesn't fully repair the wing, then the plane doesn't fly properly after takeoff.

You can see the crack. Single player, MkIX. 

 

rrr-repair-mkix-wing-still-broke.thumb.jpg.94fca8becfd4779749cb4a90fd744e00.jpg 

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On any plane?

Only planes that have a canopy that will be torn off if opened in flight? 

So just open the canopy while in flight so gets torn off, then land and RRR to get this bug? 

 

I'll try this out, I have to get in some 109 F4 practice anyways so easy to test. 

 

First thing that comes to mind for testing is...

If I let the canopy get torn off, land, RRR, do I get the bug

Next test would be to let the canopy get torn off, land, then hit the eject button when you come to a stop to blow the canopy, then see if it repairs/replaces the canopy

Then test trying open/close canopy after it's torn off...

Etc. 

 

Then see what happens constantly; every time... 

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18 hours ago, simpit1 said:

Next Bug:

 

After losing the canopy the attempt to repair leads to the following effect while reparing:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcpY7WXnfrc&feature=youtu.be

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIszsYaTxz8&feature=youtu.be

 

 

Okay I confirm, I see the bug. 

 

Mk.IX - landed hard, wounded myself, forgot I had RRR, so when it started to repair, I hit the eject to pop the canopy.

Plane kept slowly turning in a circle and wouldn't stop, couldn't start engine. 

As it repaired the same glitch happened with the canopy that's in your video.

 

I hit the open/close canopy button and when the canopy was in the open position the glitch stopped, when I tried to close the canopy the glitch started again just like in your video. 

 

Meanwhile the plane continued to turn slowly in a circle, braking, trying to start the engines, nothing happened, open/close canopy cause the glitch to start stop. 

 

More testing, but that's what I saw. 

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I would have imagined that implementing an RRR feature would have been a pretty easy and straightforward task. Now it seems that it is a pretty complicated thing to do. I still wonder why.

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