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MarderIV

Is the Command System done? It might still need some work

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I've only recently added TC into my collection, and the Command System stood out to me the most as rather unwieldy. I've seen folks give feedback regarding slow reaction times due to it, rather odd movement commands (Turning for example is done using cardinal directions without any ability to specify fine corrections), and overall process weirdness. I've also encountered some issues regarding targeting, i.e. once I have a target (as TC) designated and the Gunner starts to attack it, it's almost impossible to have him shift to a different target unless the first one has been destroyed. 

 

A lot of things going on besides the ones I've mentioned, but almost all has to do with flexibility. The Command System just feels rather inflexible at this stage. Specifically: The command system just can't keep up with how much the player needs done. Or rather, what the Tank Commander needs done and how.

 

Will it still be worked on as we go? Or is the system final at this stage? 

 

I really feel like it could do with some improvement; even if the focus would only be on improving the system's ability to mesh with the player's own reaction times faster. 

 

As it stands, getting the whole tank and crew to do something as TC requires a lot of work, not just in laying down the commands necessary to give orders (a Rose system might have been better, similar to GTOS), but also with regards to having to override some of these commands by turning off Autopilot just to get a specific thing done (other tank sims for example allows for minute changes in hull direction by overriding previous TC command without having to turn off a feature, or having the autopilot come back to the last order once done overriding). A rather irritating example was when I had to turn my hull specifically because I couldn't get it right with the command system, so I turned off A/P and did it myself. Turning A/P on again only made the driver face in the last direction as ordered prior, exposing my sides. It just feels like I'm fighting the system most of the time.

 

Right now, it just feels like I'm wrangling the it instead of the tank. I really hope there could be improvements to this in the future. Because as it stands, this feels like a real challenge. Tank Commander systems really add a lot of value to these things and I would hate to see the potential get wasted. I would love to play as TC through and through instead of a disembodied specter possessing members of a tank crew. It just feels unnecessarily difficult at this point. 

 

 

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The notes for the 4.001 release do mention that there will be "refinement" of TC before the end of Early Access. We can only speculate about the exact meaning of this.

 

Quote

It should also be noted that the release of these tank campaigns is accompanied by the completion of the development of some of the most important features of Tank Crew – the radio and command interface. This will allow you to better control your own tank and your tank platoon. We also plan to continue the refinement of our tank project in the coming months as this project too readies for official release.

 

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Yes I agree. I have also found that the system can fall out and just stop taking orders if you seem to give it too many orders especially with the moving as I've tried to order my hull a specific direction or to a specific place then the tank just doesn't move anymore. I hope and think they will fix all of this as the release comes closer and happens. It is still definitely nicer than having nothing though.

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Glad to hear they will still be working on this. As for the refinement, I hope enough folks could comment on the system in order to at least give some guidance and feedback. I'd like to think that the current system is simply just not working as intended and would be better fixed down the line. But I just can't help but think that there are some fundamental challenges in how it's designed. I love the fact we're able to give contextual orders just by "looking" at a specific place or target", but for some reason every time I see it I keep thinking there must be a way to streamline the process further.

 

It rather reminds me of commanding infantry in Arma 3, except playing TC in a tank in that title still allows for flexibility as major commands such as Scan/Watch area, Fire/Cease Fire, and Target don't really require going through highly-nested menus (Gunner scan left can be done in two strokes for example and can be overriden without toggling systems on and off, same thing as maneuvering the tank as TC since "Orders" are passed through directly using navigation keybinds instead of nested orders, which then gives fine adjustments to hull angles and positioning). I think the biggest challenge to Tank Crew's system is just that it's not as synergistic compared to other titles, and by that I mean the system is far too strict in it's structure to be agile enough to respond to what the Commander needs of their crew. I don't know if the devs have enough time to improve on this or even fix it, and that's kind of something I wish would be clarified down the line. 

 

Because beyond things functionally working, I still sense a lot of challenges to using the system successfully. 

 

There is just a distinct difference in how quickly and how logically you can move into a highly specific firing position and be able to prosecute multiple targets in Steel Beasts or Steel Armor versus Tank Crew at the moment, regardless of the vehicles' technological level. And by that I mean when playing exclusively as Tank Commander. 

 

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Hi all and sorry for asking this, but HOW did you get the command system to work? I can choose commands using the F-keys, but I am totally ignored by my obstinate crew. Am I missing something? However, even IF it works, it is going to be way to sluggish to be useful (Pressing three F-Keys just to make that Vehicle move? Really?).

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Salutations,

 

    To give orders as a tank commander, turn on the autopilot from the driver seat by pressing A key, then switch to the commander station and press ~ (tilde) key to open the orders menu. After that, you can use the cursor to point at a target or place it on the ground and choose what to do, i.e. attack it or move to it, and choose who you're giving the order to - your own tank, entire platoon or a selected tank in the platoon. There are also many commands that don't require selecting a point or a target - change formation and spacing, speed, turn at various degrees, move forward or backward, change ammo type, fire from stops, while moving slow or moving at full speed, temporary stop, cease firing and so on).

Edited by Thad

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@Thad, THANK YOU SO MUCH for your quick response! I didnt know I had to press "A" first. Thanks again, I´ll try it out. 

Oh, by the way and absolutely off-topic: do you think there will be a Tiger 2 ("King Tiger") in the game one day? I know, the infamous Königstiger wasn´t involved in the battle of P(however you spell that), but it would be soooo great to have it simulated! I would totally buy it as a DLC (Dev, you read this?) Okay, sorry, getting carried away by high expectations 😉 

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A King Tiger? Perhaps someday along with other AFVs.

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For me it totally would make sense to make as second TC something according to BOBP, to implement the latest tanks of the war and of course american and british tanks, to bring new players into this genre, too. And here the Tiger II would be a must be.

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I am having trouble with the AI becoming completely unresponsive to targeting and move to point commands. 

Edited by BBarnes005

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34 minutes ago, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

If the problem can be repeated please make an official tech issue or bug report so the developers can be made aware of and correct the problem(s). :salute:

 

Technical Issues and Bug Reporting

 

Oh I almost forgot about this. I'll see about compiling some potential issues. I've been playing this title frequently over the past few days. Might as well pitch in. Thanks for the heads up!

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Okay, the system l super confusing not ergonomic at all and in general simply useless. 

In order to tell my driver to stop:

1. Click tilde

2. Read labels in radio menu

3. Look at keyboard, press correct F button

4. Read labels again

5. Press yet another F button 

6. Read more labels 

7. Press another button

 

This is madness.  I understand the flight sim game engine doesn't have provision for any other UI system and the crew management had to be put into existing radio command system?

It is impossible to play as tank commander if any simplest order for driver takes that many clicks.

 

There has to be the simplest control system implemented known from Steel Fury or Op Flashpoint/ARMA series.

 

Pressing forward and backward buttons triggers commands:

Reverse, Stop, Slow, Forward, Fast

Left and right orders driver to turn either in 10deg increment per command or keep turning as long as key is pressed. 

Space orders short stop for firing. 

Compliment this with plotting route on map for driver and voila. 

 

Commanding gunner is another pain, as there is no way you can point at a target 1500m away without any cursor just by trying to figure out if your screen's center point is over target or not. 

 

I ended up playing driver'o'gunner position all the time,  driving tank directly in gunsight view and commander unbuttoned view. But this is arcade way of control, this is War Thunder. I was expecting better than that. 

Edited by Sputnik77
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8 minutes ago, Sputnik77 said:

Pressing forward and backward buttons triggers commands:

Reverse, Stop, Slow, Forward, Fast

Left and right orders driver to turn either in 10deg increment per command or keep turning as long as key is pressed. 


You can steer the same way in TC. Use the tank driving controls to order the driver to move forwards, backwards, left, or right.

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6 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:


You can steer the same way in TC. Use the tank driving controls to order the driver to move forwards, backwards, left, or right.

By using those controls, I am driving directly in commander or gunner position, not the driver. I have direct control over tank while playing as a crew member who in reality had no such a function or possibility. This control schema is arcade simplification like WoT or WT. 

It also creates issues, like I have to constantly press and hold 'W' button to move forward. If in the same time I want to change gunsight range, change ammo type or unbutton with commander, I have to do some finger acrobatics over keyboard to press other key combinations while holding 'W'. Even War Thunder allows me to command driver to continuously drive forward at one of 3 speeds with simple 1,2,3 the same button clicks

 

Currently here we have two control systems. One simplified arcade and other overcomplicated via radio command menu. None reflects real delay between commander giving the order and driver executing it.

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Radio menu controls are quite clunky, I agree. But I hope that VoiceAttack profile could manage it more fluently.

 

I guess nobody has created a cheat-sheet for the command tree structure? That would speed the profile building quite a lot. I tried to take screenshots of it but sadly the command layout is not visible in screenshots.

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7 hours ago, Sputnik77 said:

In order to tell my driver to stop:

1. Click tilde

2. Read labels in radio menu

3. Look at keyboard, press correct F button

4. Read labels again

5. Press yet another F button 

6. Read more labels 

7. Press another button

Do it 20-30 times and you will press these buttons automaticly with no look on keyboard in 1 second..

Now you are just bad trained tank commander)

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2 hours ago, Lofte said:

Do it 20-30 times and you will press these buttons automaticly with no look on keyboard in 1 second..

Now you are just bad trained tank commander)

Yes, I agree. I would never start the campaign without training the command menu in QMB before. You need practice to be able to use it in a satisfying way.

3 hours ago, Sputnik77 said:

It also creates issues, like I have to constantly press and hold 'W' button to move forward.

No, you can press it then go to the map while pressing it, then release the key and go back into the game. This lasts one second and the tank will drive forward until you press the 'W' key again. But you are right, the current system is far from being good.

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7 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

No, you can press it then go to the map while pressing it, then release the key and go back into the game.

Hah a good trick!

 

Practicing the menu actions, memorising combinations of buttons and practicing manual skill of pressing F buttons without looking... well I guess it is the only way for now. 

Voice Attack anyone?

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