Re-projection Index VS Reverb

[capt_nasties 36]

Hey fellas, I am really wanting a new headset after getting into IL2 online.   My main concern is with re-projection performance.  Oculus does a great job with ASW, but I do not see much in reviews about the Index and Reverb re-projection (ASW).  Given that I get in to ASW pretty frequently with my system (i9900k, 4433 mhz ram, 2080) even on a CV1 at 130% SS I imagine re-projection is a reality of IL2 in VR.  Sadly I have tried on a Rift S and it does not work for my dome...

 

So how is the re-projection performance in IL2 on the index or reverb?  How does it compare to ASW for folks who have upgraded from a rift?  

[lurch9494 23]

46 minutes ago, capt_nasties said:

Hey fellas, I am really wanting a new headset after getting into IL2 online.   My main concern is with re-projection performance.  Oculus does a great job with ASW, but I do not see much in reviews about the Index and Reverb re-projection (ASW).  Given that I get in to ASW pretty frequently with my system (i9900k, 4433 mhz ram, 2080) even on a CV1 at 130% SS I imagine re-projection is a reality of IL2 in VR.  Sadly I have tried on a Rift S and it does not work for my dome...

 

So how is the re-projection performance in IL2 on the index or reverb?  How does it compare to ASW for folks who have upgraded from a rift?  

 

 

Hi, I use an index, reprojection isn't too bad, I would say the oculus ASW is slightly better to be honest, but the difference is minimal. I have a similar system to you (specs in my signature below) and I dont use reprojection anymore. I get a solid 80 FPS/Hz all the time and you should be able to get similar with a little tweeking on the index. One advantage of the Index is that you only run SteamVR without anything else in the background unlike Oculus or the Reverb that run SteamVR plus their own software too...

 

Here are my settings for the Index running @ 80Hz (with no drops below 80 fps)

 

ULTRA
Screen Res 640x480

UI Scale Auto

Shadows LOW

Mirrors Simple

Distant Landscape Detail x4

Horizon Draw Distance 150km

Landscape Filter Sharp

Grass Quality Normal

Clouds Quality Low

Dynamic res Full

Antialiasing @2

SSAO unchecked

HDR Unchecked

Sharpen Checked

Use 4K Tex Checked

 

Steam SS 150%, motion smoothing off

Edited November 7 by lurch9494
speeeling mishtake :)

[capt_nasties 36]

150% SS on an index and holding 80 FPS is pretty damn impressive.  our graphic settings are pretty similar.  I get much higher average frames when forcing ASW off, but its an awful experience when on the tarmac with other planes present or in a furball.  

[lurch9494 23]

3 minutes ago, capt_nasties said:

150% SS on an index and holding 80 FPS is pretty damn impressive.  our graphic settings are pretty similar.  I get much higher average frames when forcing ASW off, but its an awful experience when on the tarmac with other planes present or in a furball.  

 

 

Hmmm, you need to go over your settings again, sounds like you might be 'doubling up' on AA or something, check your Nvidia settings too etc (Its pretty easy to miss something, I know from experience lol)

Edited November 7 by lurch9494

[capt_nasties 36]

I run clouds on high, and AA on 4x....which might explain it?  I will double check my nvidia settings, new drivers installed recently...

[lurch9494 23]

1 minute ago, capt_nasties said:

I run clouds on high, and AA on 4x....which might explain it?  I will double check my nvidia settings, new drivers installed recently...

 

 

OOOOH that will do it!!!  Get the AA down and the clouds, check your Nvidia settings too, it does take some time, but you will be able to tune the settings to look good and run well

 

Put full details of your system specs in your sig, helps people give you good advice

Edited November 7 by lurch9494

[capt_nasties 36]

I appreciate the tips....have you tried a reverb @lurch9494?  Really curious how the reprojection stacks up against the index...oculus ASW 2.0  is REALLY good IMHO

Edited November 7 by capt_nasties

[lurch9494 23]

1 minute ago, capt_nasties said:

I appreciate the tips....have you tried a reverb @lurch9494?  Really curious how the reprojection stacks up against the index...oculus ASW 2.0  is REALLY good IMHO

 

 

Nope, I nearly went for the Reverb, but to my mind and needs the Index was a far better choice for me personally (not that I am saying the Reverb is not as good, just they bring differing pluses and minuses). Trust me, no reprojection and a solid 80fps is wayyyy better lol  

Oculus ASW was very good, but the CV1 is getting old and the new offerings from Oculus didn't tempt me (partly the lack of eye adjustment) Reprojection on Steam VR is close, but not quite as good.

[capt_nasties 36]

indeed, I really tried to tune out ASW from my system...but in my experience its a reality of IL2 that cannot be avoided when on the ground or in a very intense situation with lots of AI / 

[lurch9494 23]

2 minutes ago, capt_nasties said:

indeed, I really tried to tune out ASW from my system...but in my experience its a reality of IL2 that cannot be avoided when on the ground or in a very intense situation with lots of AI / 

 

 

I had my system at the point I was getting less than 2% reprojection, so I turned it off   What are you using at the moment? and full system specs?

[capt_nasties 36]

i9900k @4.7, 16GB of Gskll @4433, MSI Ventus 2080 OC.  Still trying to sort out a stable CPU OC, I have had some strange crashes in other titles after passing other CPU stress tests....Oculus Rift CV1.  130% SS.  High Preset, only clouds on high and AA on 4x.  rest is turned down.  

Edited November 7 by capt_nasties

[lurch9494 23]

12 minutes ago, capt_nasties said:

i9900k @4.7, 16GB of Gskll @4433, MSI Ventus 2080 OC.  Still trying to sort out a stable CPU OC, I have had some strange crashes in other titles after passing other CPU stress tests....Oculus Rift CV1.  130% SS.  High Preset, only clouds on high and AA on 4x.  rest is turned down.  

 

 

When you overclocked the CPU did you run the XMP for that RAM? I suspect the RAM is the issue, most people dont realise the CPU is the ram controller and the i9 (as well as some AMD CPUs) struggle with such high speed ram (why I chose 3200MHz). Did you remove all power limiting states etc?

[capt_nasties 36]

yes I use XMP for the RAM.  There have been many people on my mobo, MSI MEG z390 ACE,  on the i9 with the exact same ram that have clocked it where mine is on an XMP profile only.  I will have to review the power limiting and what not in bios.  The ram is rated at 1.4V and thats where I run it.

Edited November 7 by capt_nasties

[lurch9494 23]

1 hour ago, capt_nasties said:

yes I use XMP for the RAM.  There have been many people on my mobo, MSI MEG z390 ACE,  on the i9 with the exact same ram that have clocked it where mine is on an XMP profile only.  I will have to review the power limiting and what not in bios.  The ram is rated at 1.4V and thats where I run it.

 

 

When the OC is unstable, is that during AVX enabled games? What software are you using for testing? My setup is totally stable @5.2MHz but any higher I get the odd fail, but only with AVX enabled small packet tests... Games still run OK at 5.3, I can up the Vcore further, but dont want to. What Vcore are you running?

[chiliwili69 471]

8 hours ago, capt_nasties said:

So how is the re-projection performance in IL2 on the index or reverb?  How does it compare to ASW for folks who have upgraded from a rift

 

I had the Rift CV1 for a long time with IL-2 but was not really happy with the ASW (1st gen), so it was always off.

 

I tried the Motion Smoothing with the Index and the Motion Reprojection with the Reverb. My conclusion was that the motion reprojection of WMR was doing a superb job, almost no glitches. But I kept the Index, so I now fly with Motion Smoothing off an try to set settings to be at 80fps most of the time.

More info here:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53603-valve-index-vs-hp-reverb-through-the-lens-pictures/?do=findComment&comment=815845

 

7 hours ago, capt_nasties said:

I run clouds on high

 exactly that

[capt_nasties 36]

im an idiot and bought a reverb and have a buddy coming over to demo an index....will try to make  a valuable video  @chiliwili69 thanks for posting!!  more to come....

[wju 8]

I have had Oculus CV1 for two years and now have Reverb for couple of weaks.  After a lot of tweaking, (which was not necessairy in the case CV1), I can say that Reverb runs a bit smoother on the same rig (cpu 4.7Ghz, 1080Ti, 32gbRAM 3466Mhz).

 

The crucial circumstances for smooth reprojection with Reverb (and other WMR headsets) is to achieve a minimum FPS when reprojection is disabled;  the target minimum fps is not not the half i.e. 45 but more; wendor recommends 50+, my  experience is at least 55fps. Minimum, not average!

get fpsVR app on Steam (not free, but cheap and very usefull for tweaking) and tune your setting to achieve minimum 55+ FPS when reprojection disabled in the most situations.

When done,  enable reprojection. You will be impressed. 😉

 

Edited November 8 by wju

[Bullets 380]

I’m using a reverb with reprojection turned on. Works really well, very few if any noticeable artifacts. Only one you can notice is along the wings when rolling hard but again barely noticeable. 

[capt_nasties 36]

Now I am excited!  Thanks fellas, hopefully with WMR software does not drive me crazy.....

[capt_nasties 36]

21 hours ago, lurch9494 said:

 

 

When the OC is unstable, is that during AVX enabled games? What software are you using for testing? My setup is totally stable @5.2MHz but any higher I get the odd fail, but only with AVX enabled small packet tests... Games still run OK at 5.3, I can up the Vcore further, but dont want to. What Vcore are you running?

I am not exactly sure if its AVX related or not.  Is there a way to determine if AVX is being used outside of applying an AVX offset they watching clock speeds?  

 

I think my V core is 1.335  @ 5.0ghz which kept my temps under 85* in stress testing even on a nouctua air cooler and H500M case with 2x 200mm front fans and a top and rear 120.  

 

to make it more complex now I have piss poor performance in IL2 with the new release....I am going to un install 3dmigoto and see if that has anything to do with it, or perhaps its nvidia driver update, or windows update, or oculus update...LOL.  stupid computers...stupid VR.....

[lurch9494 23]

5 minutes ago, capt_nasties said:

I am not exactly sure if its AVX related or not.  Is there a way to determine if AVX is being used outside of applying an AVX offset they watching clock speeds?  

 

I think my V core is 1.335  @ 5.0ghz which kept my temps under 85* in stress testing even on a nouctua air cooler and H500M case with 2x 200mm front fans and a top and rear 120.  

 

to make it more complex now I have piss poor performance in IL2 with the new release....I am going to un install 3dmigoto and see if that has anything to do with it, or perhaps its nvidia driver update, or windows update, or oculus update...LOL.  stupid computers...stupid VR.....

 

 

The only way I know is what you said, set an AVX offset and see if the clocks drop, but more and more games/sims are and will use AVX/AVX2 as time goes on... 1.335v is OK but I dont like going much over 1.3v personally (the general rule is a max of 1.4v for everyday, but that really is a max), I have seen a small drop in fps and more stutters with the update, so I dropped the Steam SS from 150% to 136% and that helped quite a bit. Im going to see if there are any patches over the next few days, then do another settings adjustment... Like you said, stupid PC, stupid VR LOL

[capt_nasties 36]

received my reverb today here are my initial thoughts

 

resolution:  fantastic

color / contrast: fantastic better than CV1 for sure, it looks excellent, black is BLACK no visible "glowing" around bright things on a dark background.  

performance: very good, need to enable re-projection but have been running with it off to make adjustments to graphics. I pretty much run at 90 unless taking off or in a furball on a scripted mission (have not tested online or campaign)  Its crazy how many more pixels are being pushed than my CV1 at 148%ss but it seems to perform as good if not better??!??!  I ended up going back to my CV1 settings....

WMR: not a big deal...it is not a nuisance yet, but I only have about 2 hours of use

comfort: very good outside of the stupid cable but it does not actually bother me in flight 

sounds: very good

tracking: excellent 0 room for improvement here IMHO

screen door effect: still there but its MUCH less noticeable than CV1 

 

Its strange that the 100% steam VR SS value puts the reverb well under 2160 x 2160 and I never see "square" options in steam SS to actually set it to 2160 x 2160, its at 2160x2124 or something at 180%

 

Need to figure out how to enable re-projection and test that.  Now to get my 3 year old to bed and do some more testing.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15 by capt_nasties

[Goblin 128]

@capt_nastiesYou need Windows mixed reality for stem in BETA mode to get correct resolution in Steam VR settings

[wju 8]

5 hours ago, capt_nasties said:

Need to figure out how to enable re-projection and test that.  Now to get my 3 year old to bed and do some more testing.  

 

first, as mentioned above - you need   "WMR for SteamVR BETA", 

then goto

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/enthusiast-guide/using-steamvr-with-windows-mixed-reality

 

and scroll down to:

Enabling motion reprojection for SteamVR Apps

and do what they say;  some prefer "motionvector" some "auto"

 

 

Edited November 15 by wju

[Marvel 28]

6 hours ago, wju said:

 

and scroll down to:

Enabling motion reprojection for SteamVR Apps

and do what they say;  some prefer "motionvector" some "auto"

 

 

 Hi wju, I have my settings in this way, it is ok?

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

[capt_nasties 36]

Many thanks fellas!

[chiliwili69 471]

This "Riproiezione attiva" is the SteamVR "reprojection On" which is totally different to "Motion Reprojection" of WMR headset.

The SteamVR Reprojection is the equivalent to the Oculus ATW technique.

The WMR "MotionReprojection" is the equivalent to Oculus ASW technique. (Same than SmartSmoothing in Pimax or Motion Smoothing in Index)

 

When the Microsoft guys choose the term "Motion Reprojection" they created quite a nice confusion with the existing Reprojection technique of SteamVR

[wju 8]

17 hours ago, Marvel said:

 Hi wju, I have my settings in this way, it is ok?

 

no it is not,

as chilli posted above, these % are different thing, go and read the link i have posted

btw. these SteamVR  %  depends on whether you have beta or non beta, I have both SteamVR and WMR for SteamVR beta and % set to

120% in Applications for IL2BOX

and 100% in Video

[Marvel 28]

Thanks for info, wju, I need WMR for SteamVR BETA before.... 😬 Then I'll try to follow their instructions....

 

Ciao!

 

M

Edited November 16 by Marvel

[Marvel 28]

Hi wju, I followed the instructions in your link above and I installed  WMR for SteamVR BETA. Then I enabled motion reprojection adding the line "motionReprojectionMode" : "auto", as per instructions in your link.

 

Before I had 85-90 fps steady, and after I have 42-50 fps, very often steady to 44-46 fps. It is correct in this way? It was this the pourpose of the motion reprojection, less fps with the same smoothiness? It seems game run smooth. I tried a combat with 16 planes over kuban summer maps, clouds mod and corrected skins activated, it seemed to me that everything was going smoothly.

 

Ciao!

 

M

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18 by Marvel

[capt_nasties 36]

On 11/18/2019 at 11:09 AM, Marvel said:

Hi wju, I followed the instructions in your link above and I installed  WMR for SteamVR BETA. Then I enabled motion reprojection adding the line "motionReprojectionMode" : "auto", as per instructions in your link.

 

Before I had 85-90 fps steady, and after I have 42-50 fps, very often steady to 44-46 fps. It is correct in this way? It was this the pourpose of the motion reprojection, less fps with the same smoothiness? It seems game run smooth. I tried a combat with 16 planes over kuban summer maps, clouds mod and corrected skins activated, it seemed to me that everything was going smoothly.

 

Ciao!

 

M

 

yup thats exactly what it should do. 

 

 

 

[Marvel 28]

Thanks Capt! 😀

 

Next  I will try to set motion reprojection on "motionvector" and to disabled it, just to see the differences.

Ciao!

 

M

[YoYo 527]

Btw.

If You have reprojection problem with HP Reverb and Steam VR WMR beta use this file: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4080029&postcount=3941 in this path: Steam\steamapps\common\MixedRealityVRDriver\resources\settings\default.vrsettings

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/enthusiast-guide/using-steamvr-with-windows-mixed-reality

[TWC_Tailspin 1]

I have Samsung Odeysey plus Im now getting alot of wierd FLIPPING of the views  kinda like when you hit the recenerter botton but im not, dont know if its a steam VR 9issuew a mixed reality issue it happens mostly when I look to the side and down or back sometimes I see the quick flash view of the floor or the back of my seat or my Gunner,as this happens mostly in the PE2 or the ME110,its a quick flash and only lasts about a 1/2 second but sometimes so many times it interferes with aiming of bombs or guns , any suggestions, AMD ryzen 1600,16 gb of DDR4 3000,AMD RX5700 ...thanks in advance

 

[wju 8]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:31 PM, Marvel said:

Thanks Capt! 😀

 

Next  I will try to set motion reprojection on "motionvector" and to disabled it, just to see the differences.

Ciao!

 

M

hi,
sorry for delayed reply... 🙂
yes, it is always trade-off between higher fps (70-80)  and smoothness with reprojection by 45fps; some prefers higher fps, I do prefer smoothness...;
 44-46 seems to be good, I think it should be steady 45, but probably depends on the measurement tool; try fpsVR, not free but cheap; see the pics;  You can see in game where you are limited; whether by GPU or CPU;
as You can see, my bottleneck is GPU (at least in BOX)  

...and yes, there is big difference in BOx between single player and multiplayer, the most in VR; see the relevant threads started by Jason himself

nota bene:  disabling hud ("key H") helps
nota bene2: there are rumors on web that "auto" is better for Ti cards and "vector" for non-Ti cards; cannot say where is the truth, I have 1080Ti and have better experience with motionreprojection set to "auto"

[Marvel 28]

Hi guys, thanks for replies!

 

@YoYo: no, I haven't reprojection issues, I am just courious to see the differences 😉. The only issue with Steam VR is a very annoyng flashing when IL-2 load the campaign missions. I think is a overlap from the IL-2 mission loading and the purple load screen of Steam VR.... This is started to happen from the last Steam update...

 

@wju: I know the "nota bene", and often I fly with hud off. I don't knew "nota bene 2" but I will try soonest! 👍

 

Ciao!

 

M

Edited November 26 by Marvel