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HagarTheHorrible

As of the next update.......

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32 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I think the data to be gained from FC is not: are people interested in WWI? But rather, how popular is a title heavily focused on fighter vs fighter combat with a minimum of additional options?

 

Before they can infer that accurately,  they'll need to wait until the surge of interest from RoF users has passed.

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7 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Truly, is there a surge on right now?

 

Kinda.  If you look at the servers during the 'on' times, it's basically a big list of names you'll recognize from RoF.

 

I truly doubt many people beyond them are interested enough to even know the extent of FC's unfinished state, and resulting 'focus'.

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

I think the data to be gained from FC is not: are people interested in WWI? But rather, how popular is a title heavily focused on fighter vs fighter combat with a minimum of additional options?

 

You're aware that the original RoF release had NO other options, right?  So if this game is less popular than RoF it tells you that people prefer fighter v fighter combat with no other options.

 

You should really think out your passive aggressive BS a little more carefully.

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8 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Truly, is there a surge on right now?

 

Upon release obviously there would have been an initial surge as the desperate masses all bought-in, driven perhaps by obsession always to be first to use new content, or maybe the desire to pontificate their views regarding said content. From that point I would expect an exponential fall in sales composed of the progressively more discerning,  those who were always going to join-in eventually but wanted greater assurance of what to expect. Further down the line, once the game leaves early access and becomes eligible to be included in sales, expect to be joined by that select upper echelon of the community, prepared only to pay something closer to what it considers appropriate.

Only once what we may call the 'transtion' is substantially complete, will it be possible to make an accurate projection of future sales.

 

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On 11/2/2019 at 4:01 PM, HagarTheHorrible said:


....and tinsel, it’s got to have tinsel !!!!

 

Only biodegradable tinsel of course. 😐

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Please don't get me wrong, I love that they are doing WWI content for Il-2.

 

But that aside, why bother? You have Rise of Flight. Plenty of content already there. So to me that leaves two reasons to do it.

 

One is better graphics and textures which... I'd rather have good frame rates...

 

And second is so you can use Il-2s "shared universe" features, which happens to be the one thing FC isn't going to have. The pilot career mode.

 

I hope the case is they really intend to completely flesh out the WWI era content with more planes, features and maps. AND making content we don't have in either Il-2 or Rise of Flight.

 

Otherwise they are waisting their time in my humble opinion. Do. Or do not. There is no try. 😄

Edited by Motherbrain
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FC is not RoF. It's a fallacy to even compare the two. They are two completely different games, looks and feel. Even though they are "porting" them, these planes are not the same. The planes have a completely different feel. Similar yes, but different still. FC runs waaaaaaaay better on my pc than RoF does. I get triple the frame rates in FC vs RoF. 

 

With the damage and wounding model FC is a whole new animal. Its extremely deadly in the FC skies vs RoF. Instant death, no more wing shedding, ten times as many engine flames, difficult spotting, confusion-these engagements play out like the stories you read from the veterans themselves.

 

There are pros and cons to both platforms  but I haven't touched RoF since the Arras map release and I don't think I ever will.

 

If you are sitting on the fence undecided about buying, you are missing out.

Edited by US103_Talbot
Grammar correction so Cynic_al doesn't bully me in my safe space
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1 hour ago, Motherbrain said:

Please don't get me wrong, I love that they are doing WWI content for Il-2.

 

But that aside, why bother? You have Rise of Flight. Plenty of content already there. So to me that leaves two reasons to do it.

 

One is better graphics and textures which... I'd rather have good frame rates...

 

And second is so you can use Il-2s "shared universe" features, which happens to be the one thing FC isn't going to have. The pilot career mode.

 

I hope the case is they really intend to completely flesh out the WWI era content with more planes, features and maps. AND making content we don't have in either Il-2 or Rise of Flight.

 

Otherwise they are waisting their time in my humble opinion. Do. Or do not. There is no try. 😄

 

You forget the addition of VR which takes the immersion to new levels. I personally bought into FC for the VR alone and don't regret it for a second. I obviously hope for FCv2 and v3 as soon as possible.

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1 minute ago, ZiggyBClark said:

 I obviously hope for FCv2 and v3 as soon as possible.

 

I hope we get more as well. Because at the moment we don't have enough. I guess is basically my point.

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31 minutes ago, Motherbrain said:

 

I hope we get more as well. Because at the moment we don't have enough. I guess is basically my point.

 

You got everything that they said you would get. 

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4 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Truly, is there a surge on right now?

We just had about 50 players on the Jasta5 server the other night. Since the release of the Arras map, I‘d say numbers doubled online. Yes, there is a surge.

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1 hour ago, ZachariasX said:

We just had about 50 players on the Jasta5 server the other night. Since the release of the Arras map, I‘d say numbers doubled online. Yes, there is a surge.

 

"We're gonna need a bigger boat"

Edited by HagarTheHorrible
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7 hours ago, Thad said:

 

Only biodegradable tinsel of course. 😐

 

 

Of couse, that goes without saying.  We wouldn't want to damage the enviroment.  Flanders is wet enough as it is, without having to contend with rising sea levels as well 🏊‍♂️.

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My feeling is that ww1 simming is on life support.

Two mistakes - 1. The big RoF FM changes, and 2. FC incorporated into BoX, perhaps simply FC.

Things may pick up, but from a casual day to day MP perspective RoF is now pretty much dead, and so is FC.

Jasta5 is great, currently flying the flag, but that kind of scene is a once in a while thing for me, I rarely want to fly for 1 hour and not get to shoot at anything.

If I'm looking for an hour or two of MP fun, which is my thing, there's nothing during Euro daytime and little in the evening. There's a big hole with rof at one side, fc at the other.

I can certainly feel my interest waining at the moment constantly looking at empty server lists.

Yes much about FC is better than RoF, but is it's potential ultimately going to be realised ?

A few dev weeks spent on RoF could have made a big difference, and there may have been more flying that at this point than the combined total we have of both.

I know, all Hamilton Accademicals now.

 

I'm slightly concerned that the VR users seem to want to identify as a seperate group. There's just not enough (MP) activity to accommodate it. Of course people can and will do what they want. But I expect the first VR user who takes his helmet off to discover his wife's been impregnated again, and the family silver's gone.. to 'fess up here !

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18 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

A few dev weeks spent on RoF could have made a big difference

This your professional opinion as programer and project manager after auditing the code?

 

Usually when one gets approached with "Well, all I want is just...", the only thing left to do is 🙄

 

RoF had less content and much lesser planes than FC1 for a long time. Yet it progressed.

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14 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

This your professional opinion as programer and project manager after auditing the code?

 

 

No just a thought, or a fantasy if you prefer.

 

 

 

Re. the MP scene, as of midday Euro time, RoF has a server capacity of 596 with 1 flier. FC 299 with 3 fliers.

I know this is hardly peak time, but it is a Global phenomenon.

Edited by Zooropa_Fly
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37 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

No just a thought, or a fantasy if you prefer.

 

 

 

Re. the MP scene, as of midday Euro time, RoF has a server capacity of 596 with 1 flier. FC 299 with 3 fliers.

I know this is hardly peak time, but it is a Global phenomenon.

So FC is 3 times as popular as RoF then? And you want to further invest in RoF?

 

Yesterday evening, there were almost 50 players on Jasta5 server. You know, poeple who (are old enough to) have a job rarely can play at mid day. That's a difference between the user bases of FC and WT.

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1 hour ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

No just a thought, or a fantasy if you prefer.

 

 

 

Re. the MP scene, as of midday Euro time, RoF has a server capacity of 596 with 1 flier. FC 299 with 3 fliers.

I know this is hardly peak time, but it is a Global phenomenon.

 

Would be nice if it was not, but I'm afraid that it is a (mostly) fantasy.  It is also not true that FC is an all new product from the ground up.  Of course they are taking bits from RoF.  They would be stupid not to.  But FC is the cost of the port.  It is months of work from a full team and not days from an individual.  The appeal will not be the the same as BoBP so the cost per unit has to compensate. 

 

Unfortunately, the choice is fairly straight forward: support the only WWI sim in development or stick with RoF and let FC die on the vine.  When you are dealing with small developers like 1C,  if you like the product and want to see it continue you have to put your money where your fantasies are.  A few years ago I gave Warhorse $50 for something that did not even exist, hoping that it would come into being.  That was $50 very, very well spent as I absolutely love Kingdom Come Deliverance.  I purchased an age of sail thing as well ... suppose I got my money's worth but not really a success for me.  There are no guarantees.

 

With 1C we know their track record.  It is always everyone's right to choose not to buy a product.  But if too many people make that choice the product ceases to exist.  

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9 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

You got everything that they said you would get. 

 

tenor.gif

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As ROF slowly dies? , I enjoyed organized  events or Sundays vintage missions - still do ,during that time I was actively playing il2 GB ww2  multiplayer. Bought it in first place to support ROF further development,  because I haven't any interest in ww2 aviation. Feel cheated when  nothing  was added to  ROF. Fell better when heard about FC ... Things changed and I choose to stop playing  ww2 and be active only during weekends playing FC or ROF.

Present situation is fine with me hehe - I do not lose any fun ;),  jokes aside  I do really hope for those who seek casual fun on weekday's  that they eventually  will find it with FC :)

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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17 minutes ago, Motherbrain said:

 

tenor.gif

 

I’m not the one missing the point.  You got what they promised.  If that’s not enough for you, then you should not have bought it.

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3 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Yesterday evening, there were almost 50 players on Jasta5 server. You know, poeple who (***are old*** enough to) have a job rarely can play at mid day. That's a difference between the user bases of FC and WT.

 

50 players, most of which are simply people who came over from RoF, or old hands who came back after throwing a tantrum after the RoF FM changes.

 

Looking at that 50 and claiming that they are somehow representative of a new dawn for WW1 flying is fantasy.

 

@Zooropa_Fly is right.  WW1 simming is on life support.

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WWI air combat simulations have always been a minority interest. I don't think that is likely to change any time soon, and meanwhile those who would like to see more of it might do well to encourage further development through a little positive thinking, rather than engaging in the endless going-round-in-circles-getting-nowhere forum battles that seem to be the preferred form of engagement of some of its 'supporters'.

Edited by AndyJWest
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Just a matter of managing expectations is all.

 

Your budget, time zone, and interest (SP or MP) are going to decide for you whether FC is a good investment at its current price.  Or whether you'd be better spending a few bucks on RoF until the FC price comes down.

Edited by J28w-Broccoli

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2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I’m not the one missing the point.  You got what they promised.  If that’s not enough for you, then you should not have bought it.

 

No you still are. The problem isn't that we didn't get what we were promised. We did. I'm pleased with what we got. That's not my complaint.

 

My complaint is, we need more volumes of Flying Circus for it to matter. Or at least develop new planes that Rise of Flight doesn't have. Because at the moment, if WWI is your thing, there is no point in getting FC. Rise of Flight has more planes, more maps, a career mode, and is cheaper in a sense.

 

I'm just saying I hope they commit to doing more. Leaving it just as Vol.1 is leaving it half finished in my opinion. Especially since its not getting career mode. 

Edited by Motherbrain
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19 minutes ago, Motherbrain said:

 

No you still are. The problem isn't that we didn't get what we were promised. We did. I'm pleased with what we got. That's not my complaint.

 

My complaint is, we need more volumes of Flying Circus for it to matter. Or at least develop new planes that Rise of Flight doesn't have. Because at the moment, if WWI is your thing, there is no point in getting FC. Rise of Flight has more planes, more maps, a career mode, and is cheaper in a sense.

 

I'm just saying I hope the commit to doing more. Leaving it just as Vol.1 is leaving it half finished in my opinion. Especially since its not getting career mode. 

 

Then you should probably stop complaining about how it’s unfinished.  In order to get FC2 you need lots of people to buy FC1.  Complaining about how it needs more is probably not the best way to encourage people to buy it.  So it’s really still you missing the point.

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35 minutes ago, Motherbrain said:

My complaint is, we need more volumes of Flying Circus for it to matter. Or at least develop new planes that Rise of Flight doesn't have. Because at the moment, if WWI is your thing, there is no point in getting FC. Rise of Flight has more planes, more maps, a career mode, and is cheaper in a sense.

 

I'm just saying I hope the commit to doing more. Leaving it just as Vol.1 is leaving it half finished in my opinion. Especially since its not getting career mode. 

 

I agree with you, but let's call it a wish rather than a complaint, else it'll have some of the, um, purists jump at your throat.

 

I think it's fair to say that we all want more volumes and even some new planes developed, but that is really not for us to know right now. I will say: I do believe it's a good idea to buy FC1 now or wait for an upcoming sale, as I can't really recommend to buy it at full price with no real roadmap to speak of. I'm confident that the team will do whatever they can to make it happen, but commitment is an act, not a word.

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49 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

WWI air combat simulations have always been a minority interest. I don't think that is likely to change any time soon, and meanwhile those who would like to see more of it might do well to encourage further development through a little positive thinking, rather than engaging in the endless going-round-in-circles-getting-nowhere forum battles that seem to be the preferred form of engagement of some of its 'supporters'.

 

I don't think there's any battles here, just opinions being voiced, it is a forum. We're a bit off-topic now of course..

One can wish the best for FC, and simultaneously hold views and opinions about RoF and the way things have been done.

I paid my $ on day one, and have bought almost all the ww2 stuff despite not being as into it.

I'm also trying (and failing) to get a server up which might attract some pilots who haven't migrated yet. Maybe get a few noobs in too.

So I certainly see myself as a 'supporter' as you put it.

S!

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1 minute ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

I'm also trying (and failing) to get a server up which might attract some pilots who haven't migrated yet. Maybe get a few noobs in too.

So I certainly see myself as a 'supporter' as you put it.

S!

 

We desperately need a quick dogfight icons on server with airfields or airstarts close together where people can practice dogfighting rather than practice getting bounced.

 

And if you don't do it, then I bloody well will, and I promise you I will call it BENDERLOGA just to annoy a few here. So please be quick about it.

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Whatever the in's and out's of further development for FC, I think we should be gratefull that general improvements, to the game engine, will continue to enhance our experience here in FC, rather than the full stop that will gradually gnaw away at the RoF player base as things move on, remember RoF originally came out over a decade ago,  June 25, 2009  (When i was still young, and fruity 😋)

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13 minutes ago, J5_Hellbender said:

 

We desperately need a quick dogfight icons on server with airfields or airstarts close together where people can practice dogfighting rather than practice getting bounced.

 

And if you don't do it, then I bloody well will, and I promise you I will call it BENDERLOGA just to annoy a few here. So please be quick about it.

There are 3 or 4 maps as described on Misfit server now ,close airbases, Icons on, lots of bombing targets, some objectives even some barges {bit big for Arras waters but they work} its set at 12 players atm because not sure how many it can handle but I have a great connection here in BFnoware.  It is a great place for some VR flying.

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1 hour ago, Motherbrain said:

 

No you still are. The problem isn't that we didn't get what we were promised. We did. I'm pleased with what we got. That's not my complaint.

 

My complaint is, we need more volumes of Flying Circus for it to matter. Or at least develop new planes that Rise of Flight doesn't have. Because at the moment, if WWI is your thing, there is no point in getting FC. Rise of Flight has more planes, more maps, a career mode, and is cheaper in a sense.

 

I'm just saying I hope they commit to doing more. Leaving it just as Vol.1 is leaving it half finished in my opinion. Especially since its not getting career mode. 

 

In software fail fast is generally considered to be a good business practice.  If FC is a financial failure then it only makes sense for 1C to cut their losses.  Committing longterm to something that loses money is how to go bankrupt fast. 

 

I did hear Jason say that if FC is successful then there will be more.  They already have a team stood up.  Now the revenue has to justify the existence and expense of that team.  That commitment is all that I expect and IMHo all that can be asked for.  

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When FC first came out, I thought I'd get FC because of that WOW factor of WW1 flight in VR. That quickly wore off just like every other VR game without a purpose. I can play all my civilian, WW1 and WW2 flight sims in VR with native support or using vorpx. And most of them have campaigns and/or careers for single players like me. FC is collecting dust and I am not trying to find ways to enjoy it anymore. I have a gazillion other options thankfully.

Edited by yaan98

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Great.. enjoy your many options and have fun. :salute:

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I go where others go , I enjoy  multiplayer so casual FC is better now than casual ROF. 

24 minutes ago, yaan98 said:

When FC first came out, I thought I'd get FC because of that WOW factor of WW1 flight in VR. That quickly wore off just like every other VR game without a purpose. I can play all my civilian, WW1 and WW2 flight sims in VR with native support or using vorpx. And most of them have campaigns and/or careers for single players like me. FC is collecting dust and I am not trying to find ways to enjoy it anymore. I have a gazillion other options thankfully.

The purpose is in multiplayer which can be fun too :)

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23 hours ago, US103_Talbot said:

 

FC is not RoF. It's a fallacy to even compare the two. They are two completely different games, looks and feel. 

 

 

Oh come on,  they are not "completely" different, 1c could have added all the changes fc has over rof (outside of vr) as literally bug fixes to rof.

 

23 hours ago, US103_Talbot said:

 

 

If you are sitting on the fence undecided about buying, you are missing out.

  If you're an online only player you're not missing out on anything.

Edited by Tycoon
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8 hours ago, Tycoon said:

Oh come on,  they are not "completely" different, 1c could have added all the changes fc has over rof (outside of vr) as literally bug fixes to rof.

 

  If you're an online only player you're not missing out on anything.

e53d7f8067067a51029cde8260094ff5867b10ab6676b1d493c8dd8d23c4571b.jpg.149d60b211ea572e6b513b207a3c56b6.jpg

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15 hours ago, Tycoon said:

Oh come on,  they are not "completely" different, 1c could have added all the changes fc has over rof (outside of vr) as literally bug fixes to rof.

 

You don't know that.  And if you do know that I would like to know how.

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