Erla Hood/Longer Tail/As Engine for G-6/G-14

[-[HRAF]Roland_HUNter 26]

Hello everybody!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109#Production

I watched these number and after I checked the source, its looks like reliable.
Then there is the question: Why there is no erla, tail and engine modification for G-6 and G-14? 😢

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann 1596]

4 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Hello everybody!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Bf_109#Production

I watched these number and after I checked the source, its looks like reliable.
Then there is the question: Why there is no erla, tail and engine modification for G-6 and G-14? 😢

G-14 has larger Tail and Erla. The G-6 is a mid to late 43 Model, so it doesn't get Erla or large Tail.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[-[HRAF]Roland_HUNter 26]

Agreed but It doesn't have AS engine as a high alt modification.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann 1596]

Just now, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Agreed but It doesn't have AS engine as a high alt modification.

Agreed. Would be nice. Or a G-10 for the same Reason.

 

An early MW50 G-6 would also be cool.

 

Maybe the Team gets the Time and Money some Day, but it is unlikely.

[Yogiflight 682]

Maybe it is planned for the next BOX. Meanwhile it gets a bit difficult to get new german aircraft types for further extensions.

[sevenless 1507]

1 hour ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Agreed but It doesn't have AS engine as a high alt modification.

 

Agreed the G 14/AS and G10 were most prominent on the western front within the BoBP timeframe. However it is not just the engine which would have to be changed on the existing G14. The planes (G14/AS and G10) looked significantly different, more like a K4. Both would need an extra 3D model.

 

G14/AS:

 

and G14:

Edited October 30, 2019 by sevenless

[sevenless 1507]

2 minutes ago, -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter said:

Same on G-6/AS:

 

Yes. The G6/AS, G14/AS and G10 were from the external view almost identical, except very minor differences. You should either hide that profile or mask the swastika, else you might get a problem with a mod on this board.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard 812]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

G14/AS:

 

 

I think this is a G-10 because of having the larger oil cooler

[sevenless 1507]

 

35 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

I think this is a G-10 because of having the larger oil cooler

 

Nope. Unlikely.

 

 

http://luftwaffeinprofile.se/Bf 109G Schmitt.html

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/291184868_Jagdgeschwader_27

 

Forensic study of the case:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Iris_Lindner/publication/291184868_Jagdgeschwader_27/links/5c00e549a6fdcc1b8d4aa399/Jagdgeschwader-27.pdf

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/ostseh109.de/posts/

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by sevenless

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard 812]

36 minutes ago, sevenless said:

Nope. Unlikely.

 

I mean the profile, not the identity of the real plane.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[CUJO_1970 1137]

A big hell yes for all of these!

 

Also FW190A-9

[-332FG-Ursus_ 39]

Personally. I only think the G-14AS option. On manufactured numbers and historical accuracy is not so bad on the 1944-45 module.

 

Off course, that will be good for servers with ideas to expand the combats in all 1944 and not only last months off 44 and starts of 45

[AndytotheD 25]

How many G-14s were actually manufactured? I saw a value of about 1373 G-14/ASs on the FalkeEins blog, but I don’t know how true that is.

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/01/bf-109-g-14-as.html?m=1

[Hanu 109]

The problem is that you need different skin base if you'd use Tall Tail or Erla-haube modification on G-6, and skins are not modular. I'd love to have those too with higher tail-wheel mod, but I cannot see those to be worth the time spent. Perhaps the easiest option would be to be able to put MW-50 as optional in G-6 and G-14, that would be close enough for me at least.

[MiloMorai 661]

2 hours ago, AndytotheD said:

How many G-14s were actually manufactured? I saw a value of about 1373 G-14/ASs on the FalkeEins blog, but I don’t know how true that is.

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/01/bf-109-g-14-as.html?m=1

 

G-14/AS Erla 107 produced Sept, Oct , Nov '44

G-14/AS Mttr 1270 produced Sept '44 > Mar '45

[Soilworker 168]

Never realised the G-14AS looked so similar to the G-10, how does one tell the difference? 

[sevenless 1507]

12 minutes ago, Soilworker said:

Never realised the G-14AS looked so similar to the G-10, how does one tell the difference? 

 

Honestly from the external view I can´t. Perhaps our 109 expert @VO101Kurfurst can answer that?

 

[JtD 2308]

17 minutes ago, Soilworker said:

Never realised the G-14AS looked so similar to the G-10, how does one tell the difference? 

 

The main difference betwen a G-10 and a G-14 is the use of the DB605D on the G-10. Early on the DB605AS was also used, but overall, this was the exception. The DB605D was not supposed to be installed on G-14's. So if a G series uses a DB605D, it is, with a very high certainty, a G-10. These can be recognized by a different engine cowling, which has small bumps in front and below of the first exhaust stack on both sides of the lower cowling. Which means that SuperEtendard correctly identified the posted picture as a G-10. The larger oil cooler is also a giveaway, but not as reliable, as these coolers were occasionally also used on G-14's, and not always fitted on G-10's. Apparently, most G-10's continued to use the smaller oil cooler.

[sevenless 1507]

46 minutes ago, JtD said:

These can be recognized by a different engine cowling, which has small bumps in front and below of the first exhaust stack on both sides of the lower cowling. Which means that SuperEtendard correctly identified the posted picture as a G-10.

 

You mean these bumps (red circle)?

 

 

 

 

The up to today existing G-10s of Messerschmitt Stiftung and the G-10 in the National Museum of the United States Air Force also have that bump?

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by sevenless

[JtD 2308]

Yes, these bumps, and thanks for posting the exception.

 

On reexamination it cannot be DB605D's in there in either aircraft, because of the little circular oil cooler filler cover right above the first air inlet right behind the spinner on the left side. It's in the lower position, which is not compatible with the enlarged DB605D oil tank.

 

But then, still just IDing engines, and G-10's were also manufactured with DB605AS as G-10AS, and in this case were basically identical to G-14AS's. ID then might only possible by serial number.

[CountZero 1256]

what will they have for main DLCs if they give any more axis fighters as collectables, even any aditional mod for G6 is to mutch to give, 190F8/G8 were also to big to give for free considering their heavy use on east front in 44-45 it would be better if they just saved it for later DLC.

[LLv34_Temuri 465]

2 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

what will they have for main DLC

Winter War / Early Continuation War?

[CountZero 1256]

Just now, LLv34_Temuri said:

Winter War / Early Continuation War?

Thats coming from players with map they are making , no need for devs to do that when players/moders can do it for free  

[sevenless 1507]

16 minutes ago, JtD said:

Yes, these bumps, and thanks for posting the exception.

 

On reexamination it cannot be DB605D's in there in either aircraft, because of the little circular oil cooler filler cover right above the first air inlet right behind the spinner on the left side. It's in the lower position, which is not compatible with the enlarged DB605D oil tank.

 

But then, still just IDing engines, and G-10's were also manufactured with DB605AS as G-10AS, and in this case were basically identical to G-14AS's. ID then might only possible by serial number.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Then it pretty much boils down that from photographic evidence it will be near impossible to say if it is a G-10 or a G-14/AS. Information on the engine is needed to be absolutely sure. Anyhow this is also good news I think, because that means, whenever 1CGS might decide to give us a G-10 they can easily include the G-14/AS with an engine mod or vice versa.

 

That brings me to the next question now that we have settled that G10/G14/AS topic. What differentiates (besides the engine) a late G6/AS (with erla canopy and large tail) externally from the G10/14/AS ?

[Hanu 109]

6 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

Thats coming from players with map they are making , no need for devs to do that when players/moders can do it for free  

 

The planes also? I've not heard such a thing. Only map.

[LLv34_Temuri 465]

2 minutes ago, Hanu said:

The planes also? I've not heard such a thing. Only map.

No planes. Map only.

[CountZero 1256]

Just now, Hanu said:

 

The planes also? I've not heard such a thing. Only map.

i read only map, so why would then devs make map agin for DLC when map is in game for free made by players. And most airplanes in game now can be used over that map, if anything comes from devs i guess some collector fighters that can fill in gaps.

[LLv34_Flanker 975]

S! 

 

There were Bf109G-6's with wooden higher tail and Erla haube produced. Finns got several of these in 1944. In many cases Finns removed  the high wooden tail and replaced it with the lower metallic one and the 35Kg ballast removed from engine compartment. Quite a significant saving in weight. And still retained the much liked Erla Haube. 

 

2 of the delivered 109's were G-6/AS without the MW50 system installed. Engine was still the better one. Quite popular among pilots according to Kyösti Karhila, credited with 36 kills. 

 

I would like to see tee Bf109G-10 as many pilots regarded it as a good plane. Built by Erla where quality was not bad. Same as Fw190 pilots said the Cottbus built ones were the best ones. 

[AndytotheD 25]

5 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

 

G-14/AS Erla 107 produced Sept, Oct , Nov '44

G-14/AS Mttr 1270 produced Sept '44 > Mar '45

Sorry, I meant how many G-14s total, not just AS variants

[sevenless 1507]

36 minutes ago, AndytotheD said:

Sorry, I meant how many G-14s total, not just AS variants

 

about 4000 planes

[MiloMorai 661]

1 hour ago, AndytotheD said:

Sorry, I meant how many G-14s total, not just AS variants

G-14 from Aug '44 to Mar '45

 

Mttr: 440, 144, 30, 59, 1, 167, 47 for 889

Erla: 232, 472, 339, 25, *, 78, *, * for 1146

 

G-14/U4 from Aug '44 to Mar '45

 

WNF: 59, 148, 219, 98, 56, 11, 2, * for 593

There was also 32 produced at GYoR and 29 at Kob.

[III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson 74]

I'm a big proponent of giving the G6 an MW50 engine mod available for 1944 scenarios.

[migmadmarine 185]

I too would really like to see a later version of the G6 made for the western front/1944/45 scenarios, given how common an aircraft it was. 

[sevenless 1507]

4 minutes ago, thenorm said:

I too would really like to see a later version of the G6 made for the western front/1944/45 scenarios, given how common an aircraft it was. 

 

Actually the G14 was the late war G6, so you already have that plane.

[migmadmarine 185]

8 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Actually the G14 was the late war G6, so you already have that plane.

What I mean is the later version of the G6 as still denoted a G6, IE the Erla style canopy and potentially taller tail available as modifications. 

[Yogiflight 682]

1 hour ago, thenorm said:

What I mean is the later version of the G6 as still denoted a G6, IE the Erla style canopy and potentially taller tail available as modifications. 

But what are the differences between the late G6 and the G14? It wouldn't make any sense to implement a late G6, if it is the same as the already in game, G14.

[SCG_Sinerox 100]

It would be historical to add a late g6 but no real point as the g14 is essentially a late g6 as many people have talked about. A better option is the g14AS as that is a bit of a stop gap between the lack luster g14 performance and tbe k4s super prop abilities. Again skins would be a bit finicky aswell and that means redesigning the cowl. So perhaps the best option is a premium 109 g10 which was extremely similar to the g14as and only a bit better in everyway. 

[LukeFF 4781]

3 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

But what are the differences between the late G6 and the G14? It wouldn't make any sense to implement a late G6, if it is the same as the already in game, G14.

 

The main difference, as I recall, was the way in which the MW50 was delivered to the engine. 

[migmadmarine 185]

There were G-6s with the Erla canopy but not the taller fin, weren't there?

[Hanu 109]

3 minutes ago, thenorm said:

There were G-6s with the Erla canopy but not the taller fin, weren't there?

 

Sure there were. For example LLv34_Flanker just told how they were even modified back couple of posts above.