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Why I think there should be a G-Force "indicator"...

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7 minutes ago, Cavalier said:

The breathing cue and the gray out are sufficient indicators of too many Gs

Totally agree. There is already a G-indicator: black screen -> too much Gs ;)

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On 10/29/2019 at 7:10 PM, Hobel said:

Simply add an audible heartbeat that starts at a desired G number and beats recharge faster or stronger

 

 

In Warthunder such tools are allowed

Here you can hear the whole thing well:

 

 

I wrote the app Dobs is using in the video precisely to provide some missing feedback. The "G" meter is a heartbeat that increases tempo with increasing positive G. Dobs and I both have pulled G for real and find the audio cue a suitable replacement for the physical sensation that is missing. We both hate the G breath effect so common in "sims" and the heartbeat effect is much more suitable. There are a ton of other sounds the app generates that you hear in the video. Two different angle of attack indicators, negative G indication, flap position announcement, gear position warnings, critical mach warnings, etc. It even has Joker and Bingo fuel warning but the primary reason I did the programming was for the heartbeat G meter. It is awesome.

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53 minutes ago, =475FG=DAWGER said:

 ...hate the G breath effect so common in "sims" and the heartbeat effect is much more suitable. 

 

I can agree with this. The G breath effect seems to trigger at all sorts of weird times or not at all when it seems it should.  If you've done any sort of limit-pushing physical labor, then you might know what it's like to feel and also hear your heartbeat pounding in your head. 

 

Downside is that with enough adrenaline in a RL dogfight, you might get that sensation anyway.  Also, whenever I've pushed my own limits with various jobs I've done throughout the years, the heartbeat pounding I've always heard has come on a lot more subtly, volume-wise, and isn't initially as audible as the video is at first.  From my experience, heart rate has to be higher and been going for a while before it's that loud. 

 

As far as a single-player only meter that indicates how many G's are being pulled (on the info bar that shows speed, ammo load, etc.) I see no problem with it being added.  The other audio cues in the video (flaps up, check gear, etc.) - no and hell no for this sim. 

Edited by Mobile_BBQ

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The data for this type of app has been available since motion support was added. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned it here yet.

 

Here's a simple example of the g-force output.

 

This opens up many possibilities. With a bit of work, I'm sure that someone can make software that adds some sort of indicator, such as an additional sound or an overlay that shows a number.

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While I dont think there should be a G indicator, I do think there should be an exhaustion indicator of some sort, be it with sound or a timer or something, even if its a hint system of how long do you need to rest before you can pull G before, or how far are you for reaching the maximum level of exhaustion. it can be done in may ways from "tired breathing" or some sort of indicator. 

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G meter on HUD would be great. Would allow for developing techniques in practice to keep the gs down during high speed maneuvering. 

 

What I'd really like to see is an EGT gauge so i can get more confident with the mixture controls.

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On 10/26/2019 at 1:51 PM, Tipsi said:

A real pilot, flying a real plane, feels the effects of G forces, whether that is pulling only 1G, or pulling 5G. The pilot is able to tell that with a "certain amount of pull of the stick, he can FEEL the G force effect on his body. If he is flying fast, he pulls on the stick, the G forces are harder - INDICATING he is flying at high speed and he knows NOT to pull to hard or he's going to black out. The pilot is able to feel the G forces on his body gives him IMMEDIATE feedback on how hard he is pulling, and also, how hard he can pull.


What do you think?


From my readings on g-effects and history of understanding them, grey outs and tunnel vision were THE indicators actual pilots were looking out for. They are well recognizable and adjusted with pilots individual tolerance, giving him good indication of how badly are the gs are affecting his body. Seat of the pants feeling was inprecise and changed from individual to individual.

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Solidly coming out against any form of artificial G-meter being added to the sim. the current system is excellent and well implemented.

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To everybody who is categorically against this possible addition, why don't you try to discuss with an open mind and try to find a solution that please everybody?

 

This "G-meter" could easliy be an optional difficult setting. Everybody is happy.

In multiplayer would be up to sever owner, just like with spotting.

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The idea to somehow give more visual feedback for the G-effects a real pilot would feel is actually quite good. I wouldn't go so far and display a G-Meter, but a bar or something similar indicating the G-force that the pilot feels could work.

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23 hours ago, Reckoner_ said:

In multiplayer would be up to sever owner, just like with spotting.

And we know how well that worked out right?

Servers all tend to be hardcore and would just shut it off. Multiplayer doesn’t need more settings. 

On 11/4/2019 at 9:09 PM, =RvE=SirScorpion said:

While I dont think there should be a G indicator, I do think there should be an exhaustion indicator of some sort, be it with sound or a timer or something, even if its a hint system of how long do you need to rest before you can pull G before, or how far are you for reaching the maximum level of exhaustion. it can be done in may ways from "tired breathing" or some sort of indicator. 

You mean like a little green bar that indicates the “health” of your pilot? 🤣

Ummm no. 

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I really like that heartbeat implementation. I'd be all for adding in a heartbeat sound for lower Gs that moves into breathing when you are pulling a bit harder and finally bringing in the visual cues for when you get closer and closer to really blacking out. My issue with the current model is that I can be holding a turn that seems ok with no high G indications and then the visual cues creep in and I lose sight on my target. With a greater range of audio cues I can get into better sustained turn habits and not be hazarding the possibility of a blackout.

 

As others have pointed out here, we really are missing out on a pretty big G indicator by not being in a real cockpit pulling real Gs so I do think its reasonable to want something that would let you get a better feel for when you are pulling low Gs.

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Having had some experience of G-Force in sports gliders, it doesn't take much to really start giving you problems and I'd imagine a monster Warbird would be a lot worse. At the bottom of a dive you really have to be gentle as you can really feel blood pooling in your legs and it takes real effort and teeth gritting to hang in there.

Positive G's are worse as it feels like your head is going to explode, is far more uncomfortable and there doesn't seem to be much you can do except more teeth gritting.

 

The G-effects feel pretty authentic from what I remember and it is totally draining after a few hard turns, factor in adrenaline surging through your system in combat and I think you'd be knackered very quickly unless you were extremely fit.

I can see pilots really getting into trouble very quickly in real life and augering straight in. 

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25 minutes ago, Georgio said:

...factor in adrenaline surging through your system in combat and I think you'd be knackered very quickly unless you were extremely fit.

 

Wouldn't adrenaline help with G tolerance a bit rather than make matters worse?

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I could see another breathing  sound effect that starts earlier to show more progression. But does that help? Blackouts happen when you aggressively catch gs quickly and then don’t stop pulling. Not much room for a variety of warnings there

 

i DEFINITELY want some indication my pilot has been messed up by G Forces and is now recovering. Really annoying to fly around absolutely normally and then find you can’t bail out because he’s not ‘ready’ with no indication anything is amiss

Edited by von_Michelstamm

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I'm happy with it as it is...

 

but if some people want additional info like a g meter, I'm ok with that as long as it has zero effect on the way things are now for me...as in it can go in the HUD someplace, just as long as we get the ability to switch it off at server level. That and the technochat.

 

NB; I really don't want any more sounds or visual effects, not least as they eat computing resources that I don't have.

 

Update; As we still don't have the ability to switch off the technochat at server level, I will say that until we do have, I don't want to see anything else added to it.

Edited by Pict
Update

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1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Wouldn't adrenaline help with G tolerance a bit rather than make matters worse?

An adrenaline surge would pop your blood pressure up which might help you resist the initial onset of blood pressure loss from high-g pulls, but I think the difference would be minimal in terms of really hard, sudden G.

Generally, after I have a surge of adrenaline I feel shaky and a bit weak for a long time afterward. So I can see how it might help you at the start of a dogfight, but the 'crash' when it leaves your system means you might be worse off than without it.

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the only reason why it should NOT be in the game (in Easy, Moderate or Expert modes) is so the Devs don't get inundated with the silliness of the requests such as "I was chasing Eric Hartmann in MP and as I was pulling out of a dive I passed out. But the G-meter showed only 4.9 G's!! This is bullshit... this game is broken and you guys don't know what you're doing.. I'll have you know my dad taught me how to fly when I was only 5 years old, and I could pull more G's then than in this game.. bla bla bla..",

 

This will inevitably lead to partizan opinions, recommendations how to fix it, name calling, etc etc, i.e. exactly how the Physiology topic has ended.

 

This is a simulated world with simulated planes, ammo, deaths, and therefore with the simulated G's, whatever they are. Just like you need to learn how each plane reacts to your inputs you must learn how to read the G-load signs, estimates your maneuvers, and generally be smart about flying.

 

 

My personal favorite with this unknownness of the G's is that the dog fights turned in to a very dynamic affair where a single person can no longer dominate a fight without taking in to consideration every single flying maneuver he or she does, which leads to a more realistic playing environment that everyone wants.

Edited by Count_de_Money
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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

And we know how well that worked out right?

Servers all tend to be hardcore and would just shut it off. Multiplayer doesn’t need more settings.

 

So, what kind of harm you recive from having 2 optional alternative spotting setting in multiplayer? Do you own a server and it's too coplicated for you to set the settings?

 

Regadless there are still all the people who play single player that might enjoy to have the choice. And if you don't want to dive into the advanced settings the game already provide for two general Difficuly modes.

Edited by Reckoner_

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42 minutes ago, Reckoner_ said:

So, what kind of harm you recive from having 2 optional alternative spotting setting in multiplayer?

The way multiplayer ends up is everyone will gravitate to whichever is the most popular setting and the other won’t get used. 

AFAIK all the servers are running Normal Vis and Alternate isn’t used. Something similar would happen with pretty much any option. There aren’t enough people who pay this game online to give everyone so many choices. 

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3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The way multiplayer ends up is everyone will gravitate to whichever is the most popular setting and the other won’t get used. 

AFAIK all the servers are running Normal Vis and Alternate isn’t used. Something similar would happen with pretty much any option. There aren’t enough people who pay this game online to give everyone so many choices. 

 

Sorry geniuin question. Are you a developer of this game to know that there are not enough player/money to add more settings to the game?

 

If not, you should try to read past the second paragraph:

4 hours ago, Reckoner_ said:

Regadless there are still all the people who play single player that might enjoy to have the choice. And if you don't want to dive into the advanced settings the game already provide for two general Difficuly modes.

 

But I guess you aren't intrested in making everybody happy.

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2 hours ago, Reckoner_ said:

Sorry geniuin question. Are you a developer of this game to know that there are not enough player/money to add more settings to the game?

My point isn’t about money, it’s about the type of players and servers. Right now there are about 80 people online mostly all on two servers. TAW and Combat Box, both of which are the “Expert” style without icons or helper graphics. So if there was some arcade gamey health bar for your pilot, the great odds are you wouldn’t be able to use it. In MP anyways. 

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17 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The way multiplayer ends up is everyone will gravitate to whichever is the most popular setting and the other won’t get used. 

AFAIK all the servers are running Normal Vis and Alternate isn’t used. Something similar would happen with pretty much any option. There aren’t enough people who pay this game online to give everyone so many choices. 

 

not a green box, i said some sort of indicator. the more realistic the better. in other words go and sprint as fast as you can at some point you will start to get exhausted, and you will feel that, the question what is the best way to relay that to the player. elevated heart beat, panting there are many ways to set indicators or feedback to the player with out it being a green box. 

image.gif

Edited by =RvE=SirScorpion

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I mean i don't think the indicator is a bad idea just like the system that makes the planes bigger than they actually are at a distance to compensate for screen resolution.  This would probably be a good feature to have as optional just like the other aspects of the hund such as the ammo count, altitude and speed along with the indicators telling us exactly what % our throttle and rpms are at.  The more hardcore realistic servers would have that turned off while the more gamey servers would have it on.  Would anyone be opposed to having it as an optional check box in the realism settings?

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I read through most of the comments and I am generally fine with the current state of things. If you like HUD stuff then an indicator could be something that can help enhance your enjoyment of the game. I won't stand in the way of someone who wants less realism. Realism isn't for everyone so I don't believe in enforcing "my" will onto others. 

 

Personally, I wish the effects were more gradual or that the effect has a longer effect before passing out. I would also like for their to be less ability to control the airplane as well. If you are near passing out performing a precision move to "right" the plane (reducing the "g's") should be much more difficult. Perhaps this would be to "real" for some. As it is right now, the effects do hi you rather suddenly. The positive effect is that I do learn to pay closer attention to my speed when making maneuvers. This is why I am generally "ok" with how it is right now. The only reason I am for longer more gradual effect is to simulate the gradual amount of forces you would feel in real life. 

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7 hours ago, IV./JG51-Lanze_vonHaltung said:

I read through most of the comments and I am generally fine with the current state of things. If you like HUD stuff then an indicator could be something that can help enhance your enjoyment of the game. I won't stand in the way of someone who wants less realism. Realism isn't for everyone so I don't believe in enforcing "my" will onto others. 

 

Personally, I wish the effects were more gradual or that the effect has a longer effect before passing out. I would also like for their to be less ability to control the airplane as well. If you are near passing out performing a precision move to "right" the plane (reducing the "g's") should be much more difficult. Perhaps this would be to "real" for some. As it is right now, the effects do hi you rather suddenly. The positive effect is that I do learn to pay closer attention to my speed when making maneuvers. This is why I am generally "ok" with how it is right now. The only reason I am for longer more gradual effect is to simulate the gradual amount of forces you would feel in real life. 

I mostly agree!

 

About that realism part i disagree, IRL your body feels G forces so you can adjust flying to it, in flight simming there is no such factor so realism in that part is taken away.

Adding G indicator would help regarding that but it's less immersive and also unrealistic....so both options are unrealistic.

There is no realistic solution to this!

 

As you said i think best way is to have more gradual effects that last longer, perfect solution imo, but i'm also fine with current model since hud indicator would be a NO for me.

 

 

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On 11/20/2019 at 5:55 AM, EAF_Ribbon said:

I mostly agree!

 

About that realism part i disagree, IRL your body feels G forces so you can adjust flying to it, in flight simming there is no such factor so realism in that part is taken away.

Adding G indicator would help regarding that but it's less immersive and also unrealistic....so both options are unrealistic.

There is no realistic solution to this!

 

As you said i think best way is to have more gradual effects that last longer, perfect solution imo, but i'm also fine with current model since hud indicator would be a NO for me.

 

 

 

This is what we need! Looking at something objectively and point out reasonable ideas.

I look at this like back when the developers decided it would be cool to have an image of a V2 rocket in the hanger of the startup screen.

 

Just because something is implemented doesn't we cannot express displeasure with it.We are all human, and as humans, we make mistakes. I think the idea of G-LOC is a great one, but to implement it, you have to get it right. Better yet, use the Agile methodology - (1) acknowledge the error quickly and (2) implement constant improvement.

 

The only people that will be offend by a fix are those that can only win when the odds are grossly in their favor.

Edited by JG7_X-Man
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Well, I do agree the human body does give pilots indicators insofar as vertical acceleration is concerned. I wouldn't mind an optional HUD scale or indicator field that goes from translucent to black to indicate what the effects of sustaining the current acceleration are going to be if it continues, potentially with an arbitrary error margin and definitely without taking pilot fatigue into account.

 

What I absolutely, positively, do not want under any circumstances is an accelerometer telling you how many Gs you're pulling at any given time.

Edited by PainGod85
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