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gimpy117

Did they change spotting back?

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1 hour ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Now, Alternate Visibility, on the other hand, DOES have a bunch of issues with it. Weirdness with zooming, things popping out of existence at a certain range, contacts appearing to be floating in midair (when in fact they were crashed/landed aircraft being rendered a massive distance away, but inflated to look much bigger). There are definitely bugs or glitches with that setting that can be problematic, but I can also see how some people can prefer that mode. 

 

Just the info I was here looking for. Thanks.

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50 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

Just the other night when I was on and patrolling the frontline, enemies managed to slip by four different times past me. The AltVis On is not the all-seeing eye people make it out to be. You do need to hug the deck, though.

I see planes flying low on deck looking like Sunderland flyingboat from 5 K in my Rift S.  
I acknowledge the fact that we all got different 

experience about this. For me it simply look awful. I prefer not to fly in servers using it. But not as a strict rule 

 

Edited by LuseKofte
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The best way for me is let  pilot can choose his graphic configuration on his PC.   High graphics setings high or low details graphics settings ... whatever .

 

The best thing would be that the pilot could choose on his pc how he wants to see the planes . 3.201 or 3201b whatever

 ( best visibility mode or  the worst  visibility expert )

 

Allow the option to be chosen in the client PC .

Let  the pilot choose it on the pc as another graphic option ( normal visibility mode or  the worst  visibility expert ).

 

The option  for the worst ( expert visibility mode ) , will  must not depend on the  Host server. 

 

The populated online  servers always stay in an hardcore expert  settings  ( expert visibility mode ),  and they will tell me that..
if you don't like it, then go and fly offline.


I want to be able to fly online at any server, and be able to choose if I need to see the planes a little bigger.   ( 3.201 or 3201b or whatever )

Let be My own option and choice  based on the size of my screen and resolution in pixels. Allow the option to be chosen in the client PC .

 

Everyone can choose, it will not be anyone's fault and the server will not force you to see nothing if you use a 24-inch screens or VR headset ., Because the server owner likes to  say  { it's expert visibility mode server } 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by [LAS]URU-Panzer

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30 minutes ago, [LAS]URU-Panzer said:

Allow the option to be chosen in the client PC .

Let  the pilot choose it on the pc as another graphic option ( normal visibility mode or  the worst  visibility expert ).

 

The option  for the worst ( expert visibility mode ) , will  must not depend on the  Host server. 

I can’t imagine a visibility setting like this not being a server setting. That would be like letting some players fly with icons and some without. In Multiplayer everyone wants to know that all the players are kept on equal settings. 

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40 minutes ago, [LAS]URU-Panzer said:

 


I want to be able to fly online at any server, and be able to choose if I need to see the planes a little bigger.   ( 3.201 or 3201b or whatever )

Let be My own option and choice  based on the size of my screen and resolution in pixels. Allow the option to be chosen in the client PC .

 

Everyone can choose, it will not be anyone's fault and the server will not force you to see nothing if you use a 24-inch screens or VR headset ., Because the server owner likes to  say  { it's expert visibility mode server } 

 

Server owners own the servers. They pay for them, keep them hosted, and provide a place for people to fly in multiplayer. They put hours upon hours of work into developing scenarios and maintaining the server. So they are allowed to set the conditions of their server. This only makes sense. Difficulty settings set client side quickly makes for an unfair environment that is about a hundred times worse than the advantage given by higher end displays or gear. 

Combat Box was crowd funded for a server and they have a Patreon to help with maintenance costs and events. It can be done. If everybody who wants to fly Alt Vis got together and crowd-funded a server and committed to flying on it consistently, they could do that too. 10-20$ per person who wanted to play would quickly cover the initial cost, and then monthly upkeep is much smaller. People get a server to play on and then they can demonstrate how much people like alt visibility.

But if the populated servers choose to go with normal visibility, that's 100% their prerogative. They are offering a service for free to the community.

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I think it's fine for SP, it gives people with various monitors an option and makes spotting easier for people with smaller screens where previously they couldn't see anything at all, and gives people with large screens an option not to use it.  All of the complaints are coming entirely from MP players, as if that's the only way people play the game. 

 

The concept of dots isn't to look realistic, it's to simulate the reality of the actual pilot in the cockpit being able to see things around him.  They probably could use a lot of improvement, the best implementation I've seen was a dot for far away targets that slowly fades into gray, then colored, with a bar demonstrating distance or no bar at all.  right now the icons do more than just show where the targets are, they give a specific distance to them and they create a distraction on the screen, so having to choose between that and a system where the planes are constantly disappearing -beyond what a pilot would be able to notice- is where the alternative dot system comes into play.  Hopefully they will improve it but it's at least a start.

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The server forces not to see anything to a player who uses a 24-inch or VR glasses. As example.

 

Also I have 43 inches  screen and I play on full maximun utra high settings , and I hate search for 2 little gray pixels  on a Big screen .

This  are burning my eyes of and send me to the eye doctor.

 

Let's look at it on the other side of the street, 

 

Maybe 1500  players spent each  $ 2,000 on hardware  $ 700 on flight peripherals and  $ 160 dollars more  on the (game)

BUT the server tells everyone :

You will not see anything  ( I have expert  visibility setting Roll Back ).

 

OH IS GREAT !!!

 

This option must be changed to the graphics setting on the pc client.

And don't keep remaining this setting on the server. Is Clear.

 

If I spend  2400 dollars  on hardware  +  Box etc , to play this game online and to be able to see  cleary the planes in a 43 inch screen,  but I must  burning my eyes searching for 2 little gray pixels  on a Big screen,. THANKS to the roll back parch fix  and Thanks to the forum trolls ...

 

IS GREAT !!

 

 

Off Topic 

Spoiler

Also I don't want to talk about clouds in medium or high settings,

You MUST play in ultra high  graphics  settings and ultra hight clouds settings  . Or you will are  in trouble with the clouds render for spotting planes .

 

About ambient fog, regardless of horizon  draw distance settings,  Depends on the map 50 - 50 , but the fog surrounds you at any map  , and gets close to you , if you dowgrade any graphics settings under ultra . 

 

The render terrain and sky at medium or low details settings , have  an increase fog effect. The fog effect Camouflaging and hiding the planes behind that screen of fog a even a few kilometers. T

his is very noticeable compared  standard graphics settings to ultra high settings , in ultra settings  the fog moves away a lot.

 

If someone wants screenshots and graphic settings I can do it.

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by [LAS]URU-Panzer

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42 minutes ago, gimpy117 said:

I agree that we need it to be a client side setting. 

No game has settings like that client side. That’s a ridiculous request. It’s basic fairness to have everyone playing on the same settings. If you want to play using icons or Alternate Visibility, simply select a server running those settings. Again such practice is universal for online gaming. 

1 hour ago, [LAS]URU-Panzer said:

Also I have 43 inches  screen and I play on full maximun utra high settings , and I hate search for 2 little gray pixels  on a Big screen .

This  are burning my eyes of and send me to the eye doctor.

If this causes you so much eye strain, you should play using icons. 

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I get that people want to have better visibility of contacts without using zoom, but why not just play with icons rather than the insta-spot-super-big-dots?

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2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

No game has settings like that client side. That’s a ridiculous request. It’s basic fairness to have everyone playing on the same settings. If you want to play using icons or Alternate Visibility, simply select a server running those settings. Again such practice is universal for online gaming. 

If this causes you so much eye strain, you should play using icons. 

not really, giving people the option to use this spotting mode is  fairness.

 

see better with your 4k screen using the new setting? use it!

see better with the pre hotfix version? use that!

 

making it client side solves the problem of both sides...

 

if people are genuinely saying the saw targets worse before the hotfix and now see them better after and not telling a fib to regain a competitive advantage then why is this an outrage? There's other games like war thunder where ULQ (ultra low quality) is considered to be pretty much a cheat...but it is there to help some hardware differences that arise from PC games. and yes, EVERYONE can use it so it's not a cheat.  

 

 

oh and icons? well what about multiplayer...or are people saying just get off multiplayer now? talk about not being inclusive. you're basically telling people to either stop playing multiplayer or spend thousands on a rig, or thousands on a server! those aren't good options for anyone unless you're really lucky or wealthy. or, that being said you seem to be  asking people to be at the mercy of a server admin or be stuck in an empty server.  

 

I also don't think anyone would dare to suggest we use Icons in multiplayer either. that's to me is just an appeal to extremes 

Edited by gimpy117
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3 minutes ago, gimpy117 said:

not really, giving people the option to use this spotting mode is  fairness.

Again, you’re asking for something that no online game does. That’s just how it is. Any multiplayer game is going to enforce the same difficulty settings on all players. Graphic settings aren’t generally considered a difficulty setting or game aid. 

 

All you need to do is go to a server which runs the settings you want. Problem solved. 

If if you can’t understand this you should just stick to single player. 

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5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Again, you’re asking for something that no online game does. That’s just how it is. Any multiplayer game is going to enforce the same difficulty settings on all players. Graphic settings aren’t generally considered a difficulty setting or game aid. 

 

All you need to do is go to a server which runs the settings you want. Problem solved. 

If if you can’t understand this you should just stick to single player. 

did you read my post or just gloss over ULQ in war thunder. We're in that zone with a graphics setting can be both. personally to me if people really are being 100% honest when they say the pre-hot fix spotting was worse for them and now actually see planes better now...and not just saying that because they didn't like getting spotted more easily then why is this a difficulty issue and not a graphics issue?!!

 

and there is is:

play my way or go away. what a simple argument. there's only like 4 servers that are ever really populated the community is really small. I'd really love to start a server but i am not a man of means. hell, I can't really afford to get bodenplate this paycheck...maybe not for the next two. but I wanna play IL2 but I'm really disappointed that the devs finally threw a lot of people a bone who have lower end rigs AND YOU GUYS complained and got them to change it back...and now you dangle out phrases like "if you don't like it play single player". sorry some of use aren't in the cool kids club. 

Edited by gimpy117

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30 minutes ago, gimpy117 said:

did you read my post or just gloss over ULQ in war thunder. We're in that zone with a graphics setting can be both. personally to me if people really are being 100% honest when they say the pre-hot fix spotting was worse for them and now actually see planes better now...and not just saying that because they didn't like getting spotted more easily then why is this a difficulty issue and not a graphics issue?!!

 

and there is is:

play my way or go away. what a simple argument. there's only like 4 servers that are ever really populated the community is really small. I'd really love to start a server but i am not a man of means. hell, I can't really afford to get bodenplate this paycheck...maybe not for the next two. but I wanna play IL2 but I'm really disappointed that the devs finally threw a lot of people a bone who have lower end rigs AND YOU GUYS complained and got them to change it back...and now you dangle out phrases like "if you don't like it play single player". sorry some of use aren't in the cool kids club. 

You have a simple solution. Go to a server that runs Alternate Visibility. The nature of this game is that this will always be a server setting. The vast majority of players would be very upset if it was not. 

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4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

You have a simple solution. Go to a server that runs Alternate Visibility. The nature of this game is that this will always be a server setting. The vast majority of players would be very upset if it was not. 

and what server is that does it ever have players on it? 

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3 hours ago, [LAS]URU-Panzer said:

 

The server forces not to see anything to a player who uses a 24-inch or VR glasses. As example.

 

Also I have 43 inches  screen and I play on full maximun utra high settings , and I hate search for 2 little gray pixels  on a Big screen .

This  are burning my eyes of and send me to the eye doctor.

 

Let's look at it on the other side of the street, 

 

Maybe 1500  players spent each  $ 2,000 on hardware  $ 700 on flight peripherals and  $ 160 dollars more  on the (game)

BUT the server tells everyone :

You will not see anything  ( I have expert  visibility setting Roll Back ).

 

OH IS GREAT !!!

 

This option must be changed to the graphics setting on the pc client.

And don't keep remaining this setting on the server. Is Clear.

 

If I spend  2400 dollars  on hardware  +  Box etc , to play this game online and to be able to see  cleary the planes in a 43 inch screen,  but I must  burning my eyes searching for 2 little gray pixels  on a Big screen,. THANKS to the roll back parch fix  and Thanks to the forum trolls ...

 

IS GREAT !!

 

 

Off Topic 

 

 

I HATE how this visibility thing is splitting the MP community. The new systems clearly needs some adjusting but please stop saying that it's because of a few trolls. the "alternate Visibility" was a bug. A confirmed bug by the DEVS themselves! the only reason they put it back is because people wanted it back.

 

In my case (in VR) i can spot a lot better with the Alternate Visibility off than I ever could before the recent patches.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, gimpy117 said:

and what server is that does it ever have players on it? 

 

If no server with people in it does it, then what does that tell you?

 

 

Edited by SAG
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Don't cry over spilt milk, just make the choice:  "alternate visibility" and "visibility... restrict, maybe? Both are "correct", depends on how one look at. 😀

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2 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

Don't cry over spilt milk, just make the choice:  "alternate visibility" and "visibility... restrict, maybe? Both are "correct", depends on how one look at. 😀

 

No they both aren't "correct" depending on how one looks at it.  Post-Modernism at its finest?

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I have a 38" 3840x1600 Ultrawide monitor. I have to zoom out the default view considerably to get a correct looking FOV for play. I can tell you that Alternate Visibility is completely broken on such a setup, which many others have pointed out as well. This is not an "option" that scales correctly to each monitor, resolution or Field of View setting, it only works "correctly" in certain conditions.

 

So for those who think getting a larger, more expensive monitor is Pay to Win™️ and not fair for everyone else,  just keep in mind that there are players that will not have the ability to even use the advantage of the alternate visibility setting if it is enabled on a server, unlike you.

 

So in theory either you will agree that it needs a different implementation so it works properly for everyone, regardless of their hardware, or you believe it should be a server option to turn on or off,  to say otherwise is hypocritical.

 

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No matter how we see this, community is now divided in two fractions. In reality a situation 

a small genre can’t afford. 
But pro and con is split in the middle. 
It simply is not fair to force any of the parties to not use their preferred settings.
For me it means I will not fly bombers or any kind of general purpose related missions in alternative settings. Meaning less than 1% of my flying. It is simply hard enough getting past defensive as it was. 
For others (most people) it is down to preferences. To me it simply made this sim look cheap and put my historical preference aside. 
It is a pure competitive feature seen in counter strike and wt. And I personally find it utter unplayable. 
Worst part is sometime I do not know I fly in servers with these settings, and in a bomber it can take up to 45 minutes before you notice. 
And it is a damned waste of time. 
Mark the servers    

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10 hours ago, SAG said:

 

If no server with people in it does it, then what does that tell you?

 

 

That is not really a fair argument. People play WOL, combat box and KOTA BECAUSE that is where the player base is, regardless of settings. They won't migrate to a new server with alternate if it's empty. They will continue to join the more populated servers to have that experience of flying in a populated server. I am adamant about 'alternate' spotting, but I begrudgingly fly in the other servers due to population 

12 hours ago, FuriousMeow said:

I get that people want to have better visibility of contacts without using zoom, but why not just play with icons rather than the insta-spot-super-big-dots?

Icons give an arrow in close. People are already ridiculed for flying icon servers. Better contact spotting is only somewhat of an aid from a far distance, not at all like icons. Its also arguably more realistic, and more FUN

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3 hours ago, Tasmanaut said:

That is not really a fair argument. People play WOL, combat box and KOTA BECAUSE that is where the player base is, regardless of settings. They won't migrate to a new server with alternate if it's empty. They will continue to join the more populated servers to have that experience of flying in a populated server. I am adamant about 'alternate' spotting, but I begrudgingly fly in the other servers due to population 

Alternate Visibility will always be a server setting. If there are enough people who prefer it then there will be servers running it.

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6 hours ago, Tasmanaut said:

That is not really a fair argument. People play WOL, combat box and KOTA BECAUSE that is where the player base is, regardless of settings. They won't migrate to a new server with alternate if it's empty. They will continue to join the more populated servers to have that experience of flying in a populated server. I am adamant about 'alternate' spotting, but I begrudgingly fly in the other servers due to population 

Icons give an arrow in close. People are already ridiculed for flying icon servers. Better contact spotting is only somewhat of an aid from a far distance, not at all like icons. Its also arguably more realistic, and more FUN

 

IDK if I'm coming off like an ass (not my intention) but have you stopped to consider that maybe those servers are full BECAUSE of the realism and visibility options instead of being full in spite of them?

 

I also haven't seen or heard the first case of ridicule due to the use of icons. some people fly with, other people fly without, and both choose base on their preference; both are perfectly respectable ways of enjoying the game. Icons are also a server side option that most people would agree should stay that way, since it provides a level playing field in MP.

 

Finally, I do think the new visibility system (alternative OFF) need some tweaking as to provide more consistency across different resolutions and graphical settings, but give the devs time, their hands are pretty busy at the moment.

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6 hours ago, Tasmanaut said:

 

17 hours ago, SAG said:

 

If no server with people in it does it, then what does that tell you?

 

 

That is not really a fair argument. People play WOL, combat box and

 

I dont mind wol per see 

My problem with that server is related to the playerbase there. I like the missions better than cb and kota. But not once I been in wol there has not been a crash on runway. Taxiing to runway and take off is the most risky part. 
There will be 3 crossing it not bother to taxi and two of them either crash into me or someone else or in som aa. 
I dont mind map icons nor new players, but you got resemblance to kinder garden during takeoff. I choose servers with a minimum of people in with missions I like. Second is the visability thing 

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36 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

I dont mind wol per see 

My problem with that server is related to the playerbase there. I like the missions better than cb and kota. But not once I been in wol there has not been a crash on runway. Taxiing to runway and take off is the most risky part. 
There will be 3 crossing it not bother to taxi and two of them either crash into me or someone else or in som aa. 
I dont mind map icons nor new players, but you got resemblance to kinder garden during takeoff. 

This!

what is the problem with these people? If you don’t like taxiing go over to Berloga. Jeesh...

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I would be good with something like what I have in War Thunder Sim mode.

It's way better than every try ED did with DCS target spotting IMHO, and better than what I see in IL.2 Great Battles at present.

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9 minutes ago, jcomm-il2 said:

I would be good with something like what I have in War Thunder Sim mode.

It's way better than every try ED did with DCS target spotting IMHO, and better than what I see in IL.2 Great Battles at present.

 

ED's attempt at solving the problem was done without fully understanding the problem in the first place IMHO. I think of it as a "half arsed attempt" TBH, that looked bad from day one.

 

It definitely shouldn't be brought up as an example or reason why it can't be done, rather how it shouldn't be done.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R
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I think personally the size of "icons" or "blobs" should be put back to where they were, but the "glowing" factor should be way toned down. they shouldn't be grey but not yellowish as I saw them. that being said it's not an excuse to scrap the whole thing because it wasn't perfect nor is it an excuse to use how the real world eye works are an argument (disingenuous or not) to argue against something that was done to mitigate the problems of seeing the world through a computer screen.  

 

 

I can only hope the devs take a "middle ground approach" were at the very least you can clearly see someone coming up on you within a 2-5 KM but not having blobs at 30km appear. this I would support. 

Edited by gimpy117

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Let me add to my point. 
I probably died in this sim in all possibly historical ways pilots died during WW2. 
If I had been a pilot in ww 2 I am pretty sure I would been able to manipulate my ways through flight school as below average to average. At best get a couple of shared kills , but died violently pretty soon and become one of histories grim statistics. 
It is not the dying I mind, it is the arcadish spotting system that leaves no escape to a bomberpilot I do mind

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On 10/19/2019 at 9:21 PM, LuseKofte said:

Let me add to my point. 
I probably died in this sim in all possibly historical ways pilots died during WW2. 
If I had been a pilot in ww 2 I am pretty sure I would been able to manipulate my ways through flight school as below average to average. At best get a couple of shared kills , but died violently pretty soon and become one of histories grim statistics. 
It is not the dying I mind, it is the arcadish spotting system that leaves no escape to a bomberpilot I do mind

I've never had a problem getting spotted in bombers, pre-or post hot-fix 

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Thought i'd weigh in with my opinion as a newer player. I played for a little bit with the alt visibility, but had to turn it off as it annoyed me too much with how an aircraft would shrink enough when i zoomed in to make me lose the target. Currently I use the "expert" visibility on my 4k screen, but i am using several other aids, mainly aircraft markers (so i can keep track of where they're going relative to me when already in super close) and map markers. As-is i'm able to spot targets beyond what the target markers will display if i know a rough direction. I dont have a problem with either system being used against me as i have significantly larger issues to worry about than someone being able to see me easier

 

I dislike the dev's remark from one of the earlier linked posts about how difficult it is to spot a single pixel on a display that's a different color. For me, spotting a single black pixel in a sky-colored background isnt difficult if i'm actively searching. Hell, i've had to pause my game and wipe smaller pieces of dirt off my display! 

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