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Bremspropeller

Optimum Power Settings - American Fighters

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Hi folks, does anybody know the appropriate power settings for the American fighters (P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51) in game?

 

I'm interested in the settings for:

 

- Ground Ops (eg warmup, MAG checks)

- Takeoff

- Normal Climb

- Cruise Climb

- Fast Cruise (in combat area)

- Normal Cruise (maximizing range)

- Slow Cruise (maximizing endurance)

- Descent

- Approach & Landing

 

I'm interested in MAP, RPM, Mixture and all kinds of door positions (oil cooler, cowl-flaps, intercooler, turbo settings, etc.)

 

I know it has little effect in the game, but it certainly will add a lot of imersion when sticking to the numbers.

Does anybody know about that stuff?

 

Thanks and cheers!

 

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I recently took up flying the P-47 a bit more and in an effort to get more out of it I watched the 3 USAAF training films on the aircraft which was of great help and really interesting, and most, if not all of the information your looking for is available in them, all put over in the lingo of the day, which in itself is worth it :) 

 

Not sure if this will be of any instant help, but if you have the time to watch them and take notes they are a mine of information.

 

 

 

 

There's a decent one on the P-51B as well that goes right into stuff like the need for anchoring the tail when running up to 40" of PM on the ground etc., etc.,

 

 

Edited by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.
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P38;

Taxi auto rich, full pitch,1000 rpm

Take off auto rich, 3000 rpm, 54”mp

Full Military power, auto rich, 3000 rpm, 54” mp

Max continuous cruise, auto rich, 2600 rpm, 44” mp

Normal cruise, auto rich, 2300 rpm, 30” mp

Economy cruise, auto lean, 1500 rpm, 30” mp

I use auto rich, 2600 rpm. 20" mp on descent

Landing, auto rich, 2600 rpm, 15” mp

 

I have this as my custom photo in cockpit;

 

Custom.png

 

 

 

Edited by Jaegermeister
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10 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Hi folks, does anybody know the appropriate power settings for the American fighters (P-38, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-51) in game?

 

I'm interested in the settings for:

 

- Ground Ops (eg warmup, MAG checks)

- Takeoff

- Normal Climb

- Cruise Climb

- Fast Cruise (in combat area)

- Normal Cruise (maximizing range)

- Slow Cruise (maximizing endurance)

- Descent

- Approach & Landing

 

I'm interested in MAP, RPM, Mixture and all kinds of door positions (oil cooler, cowl-flaps, intercooler, turbo settings, etc.)

 

I know it has little effect in the game, but it certainly will add a lot of imersion when sticking to the numbers.

Does anybody know about that stuff?

 

Thanks and cheers!

 

 

Watch Requiem's "How to fly" Battle of Bodenplatte aircraft and when you see the checklists copy them down.  The Mustang & Lightning are pretty much all automatic on Coolant/Oil shutter door positions.  The P-47 is a bit more hands on.  Der Sheriff has a good "How to" on the P-47 and getting the most out of it.  Youtube is your best friend for this game, some pretty nice people have taken the time and made the effort to help us neophytes learn how to fly in the virtual world.

 

Requiems youtube page

 

Sheriff's youtube page

 

Cheers

Hoss

Edited by 361st_Hoss

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The WWII training videos are good sources for takeoff and cruise settings. The original operating manuals are where you will get military power, cruise and landing settings. I got the economy cruise settings from literature about Charles Lindbergh flying the P38 in the Pacific. It’s not in the manuals. 😉

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11 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

I got the economy cruise settings from literature about Charles Lindbergh flying the P38 in the Pacific. It’s not in the manuals. 😉

 

That's kind of surprising as you would think economy cruise settings were an important information worth a spot in the manual for all pilots, not just left to scuttlebutt.

 

But there you go.

Edited by Pict
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2 hours ago, Pict said:

That's kind of surprising as you would think economy cruise settings were an important information worth a spot in the manual for all pilots, not just left to scuttlebutt.

 

They were, but CAL managed to squeeze out a good deal of miles more from the tanks.

If you look at the numbers, the MAP is double oversquare (30'' MAP vs 1500 RPM) - a setting that many people believe will destroy your engine.

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4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

They were, but CAL managed to squeeze out a good deal of miles more from the tanks.

If you look at the numbers, the MAP is double oversquare (30'' MAP vs 1500 RPM) - a setting that many people believe will destroy your engine.

It would b e nice seeing the actual torque. Missing that gauge, it clearly shows that plane designers really didn‘t consider able to choose best cruise settings, but gave them settings where the engine runs best on the bench. It seems when fuel consumption became a deciding factor about buying an aircraft, those gauges were installed.

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I had to learn German bombers all over again just now. With balance tipped over to red side I now am able to fly blue. 
I respect the way you think   I do the same. In order to reenact ww2 aviation I need to try to do things as realistic as possible no matter if it serves the gameplay 

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This is a great video about Lean of Peak (EGT) operation of the engine:

 

 

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

It would b e nice seeing the actual torque. Missing that gauge, it clearly shows that plane designers really didn‘t consider able to choose best cruise settings, but gave them settings where the engine runs best on the bench. It seems when fuel consumption became a deciding factor about buying an aircraft, those gauges were installed.

 

I have never seen a torque gauge in an piston. It's quite normal in turbines (turboprops), though.

There, you're usually torque-limited down low and temp limited (whatever temp you're indicating: EGT, TIT, ITT) up high.

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One of the reasons that the P38 works under that "extreme" economy regime is that it allows the throttle plates to be open wider than a more "normal" cruise setting.  It's why diesels are so efficient as well,  no throttle plate in the way of intake air flow.  BMW used this same principle when they brought out the (really awful but very efficient) 325e.  Tall gears, low rpm, wider open throttle plate.

Edited by BlitzPig_EL

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@Bremspropeller I know at least Lockheed Constellations had them, but don't know any more.

 

Veeeeeery few aircraft utilize leak of peak, it's very damaging to engines not made for such operation. In general, it's 50-100F rich of peak.

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28 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

This is a great video about Lean of Peak (EGT) operation of the engine:

 

I have never seen a torque gauge in an piston. It's quite normal in turbines (turboprops), though.

There, you're usually torque-limited down low and temp limited (whatever temp you're indicating: EGT, TIT, ITT) up high.

It us standard on most post war prop airliners, the Connie or the B377 Stratocruiser come to mind.

 

Very useful for manually leaning out the mixture in cruise setting. It is actually the the most important gauge, as you adjust MAP, mixture and rpm after deciding your torque.

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13 minutes ago, SliderCDN said:

Veeeeeery few aircraft utilize leak of peak, it's very damaging to engines not made for such operation. In general, it's 50-100F rich of peak.

 

When I fly trainers (fourbangers, not more advanced sixbangers like in that A36 Bonanza), I lean all the time. In those airplanes, you typically don't even have an EGT or CHT indication.

There, you'll just lean until the RPM just about starts to drop and then again going forward slightly with the mixture. That creates an interesting surprise for the CFI or passenger when you're a bit hamfisted and shut down the engine in-flight for a second, or two... You'll even lean the hell out of those engines on the ground, so your spark plugs aren't fouling up.

 

Fun fact: The Piper Malibu (until the 1988 or 1989 production year) had a Continental 310HP that liked LOP operation, while the following models with the 350HP Lycoming don't like it at all. The earlier Malibus will cruise at about the same speeds, but will eat about 7-10 gph less fuel.

3 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

It us standard on most post war prop airliners, the Connie or the B377 Stratocruiser come to mind.

 

But didn't they all have turbo-compound engines anyway?

The torque-gauge might be related to the compounds, n'est-ce pas? 🤔

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8 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

But didn't they all have turbo-compound engines anyway?

The connie had two stage superchargers. Critical altitude some 22k ft IIRC. The Stratocruiser is turbocharged (like Thunderbolt) and you can go up to 28k ft, where the turbo bearing temp gauges become the things to watch.

 

11 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

The torque-gauge might be related to the compounds, n'est-ce pas?

No, it is shaft torque.

 

11 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

In those airplanes, you typically don't even have an EGT or CHT indication.

If they have injector engines, they should have EGT by all means. If they have a cooler lever, they should have a CHT gauge as well. But the Piper Cup and AFAIK Super Cub have the cylinders outside in the air like the laundry, and there is no control anyway. Besides frowning when they run sour.

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I have some more for you...

 

I flew a mission I am working on earlier today. I took an AA round in the port radiator. Temp went up and left engine went out about half way home so I managed to feather the prop and get trimmed for single engine flight. @ 2600  rpm and 44" mp I maintained about 200 mph ias and reduced to 25" mp for a straight in descending approach from 2000 feet. 

 

P38-Feathered.png

 

I dropped gear @ 175 mph, combat flaps just after that, and came in a bit hot at about 120 mph before I dropped full flaps just short of the apron.

 

When I pulled off the runway, I realized I was actually all tensed up. 🙄

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Great thread, interesting & educational :good:

 

23 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

They were, but CAL managed to squeeze out a good deal of miles more from the tanks.

If you look at the numbers, the MAP is double oversquare (30'' MAP vs 1500 RPM) - a setting that many people believe will destroy your engine.

 

Interesting, indeed that would explain why Lindy's numbers never made the manual.

 

In his book Samurai, Sabouro Sakai went into some detail about how they managed to squeeze out the extra range required to make their 8th December attacks on the Philippians, thereby avoiding the need to use a few small carriers. When we have the technology we now have as per your "Lean of Peak" video, it demonstrates to me just how pioneering these guy's like Lindbergh, Sakai and so many others of that time really were.

 

==============

 

Anyone know how the  mixture gauges in the Pe-2-35 work, both in real and in the game? I really like those gauges and are one of the reasons I prefer the earlier Pe-2 over the later.

Edited by Pict
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11 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

I have some more for you...

 

I flew a mission I am working on earlier today. I took an AA round in the port radiator. Temp went up and left engine went out about half way home so I managed to feather the prop and get trimmed for single engine flight. @ 2600  rpm and 44" mp I maintained about 200 mph ias and reduced to 25" mp for a straight in descending approach from 2000 feet. 

 

P38-Feathered.png

 

I dropped gear @ 175 mph, combat flaps just after that, and came in a bit hot at about 120 mph before I dropped full flaps just short of the apron.

 

When I pulled off the runway, I realized I was actually all tensed up. 🙄

 

Some say the second engine is only installed to reliably get you to the place of crash.

Now, it's actually way better than this, but twins OEI need a lot of care and finesse to work.

 

Just yesterday I watched this great ground--school video (made by the same guy who did the LOP video) for the twin-rating.

The "Drill" is actually a great idea. As is the notion that on some aircraft, the whole tail might stall, putting you into a snap-roll/ spin just slightly below Vmc.

It's timey, but nonetheless very interesting.

 

I have had Vmc-rolls in this sim in the Pe 2 (couldn't feather the /%(&/%§§ prop!) and in the A-20. And I didn't live...

Both were online, trying to limp back home just above the trees.

 

 

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P-47 Climb rate

 

After watching this video  - load the P-47 with 100% fuel and ammo only ( no bombs or rockets)   Take off and try to get to 20 thousand. It's MAX service ceiling was supposed to be a bit over 40K - but lets not worry about that. If You make it to 20K feet - tell us how long it took you and if you did................. try 30K which was its optimal performance altitude.  The performance parameters of the 47 in the sim need very very serious work. It's dainty porcelain damage model is for another topic. 

 

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3 hours ago, Misty06 said:

P-47 Climb rate

 

After watching this video  - load the P-47 with 100% fuel and ammo only ( no bombs or rockets)   Take off and try to get to 20 thousand. It's MAX service ceiling was supposed to be a bit over 40K - but lets not worry about that. If You make it to 20K feet - tell us how long it took you and if you did................. try 30K which was its optimal performance altitude.  The performance parameters of the 47 in the sim need very very serious work. It's dainty porcelain damage model is for another topic. 

 

P-47 optimum altitude depends on it's power settings. P-47 D-25 through D-30 all had the same engine and turbo/supercharger type but the critical altitude changed with power. When the P-47s were running at 56" WEP the critical altitude was around 29,000 ft but once they boosted the WEP to 64" and above the critical altitude dropped to around 24k due to the turbosupercharger not being able to sustain those powers higher up.

 

Our P-47 has a critical altitude of around 24k not 29-30k. Also another thing to keep in mind is the climb rates you see listed for the P-47 in most charts are for the Curtis/Hamilton Prop which was the standard props used for the P-47. The P-47 we have uses a A.O. Smith prop so the climb rate is likely going to be different from most charts due to it being a different prop with different performance.

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Pilot manuals and training videos are a start, but they do not represent how pilots pushed their planes in action. For example, lots of P-38 pilots reported flying at full throttle for entire sorties.

 

Based on that, on the P-38 we now fly 55" manifold and 2300 RPM in level flight. Adjust the manifold down a hair to stay out of emergency mode depending on the outside temperature. This setting will run all day if you are just out of emergency into combat mode. More important, it will get you 30 more mph or more in level flight than the manual's suggested 44" and 2600. Stay in the green zone on the RPM gauge in this mode. Before you dive or climb for any amount of time, lower the manifold to the suggested 44" and THEN raise RPM to 2600-2700. This is the opposite to the manual, which says adjust RPM first; that will kill your engine.

 

Credit to 69th_Sawham for figuring this setting out. Enjoy the extra speed!

Edited by 69th_Bazzer
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Copy Bazzer,

 

Great info thanks for sharing !!!

 

Last night I went into  Quick Mission> Realism> and in last list to the right - I checked ALL options EXCEPT  Cruise Control.

 

After doing so I put Technical Messages on and HUD on for info gathering purposes - I DID get the jug up to 20K and even all the way up to 30K .

 

Got indications of power settings beyond "Continuous Power" as well as indication of supercharger being activated.

 

It basically flies as advertised in the vid I shared and in US Army Air Corps Tech Order pubs on the aircraft ( 47D to be specific WITH paddle prop) .  Of course I hope the dainty damage modeling will be addressed. Of all the fighter aircraft in IL-2 BOS - the Jug was without doubt supposed to be - on of the toughest  - but right now it is far from it.

 

Cheers !! 🥂

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