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KB-Kriechbaum

Implementing Squadrons with INGAME- COMS

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Borrowed from @Feathered_IV

 

This is how I envision built in game comms, and feathered summed it up so well.

 

-> You assume that the people playing IL2 are the same kind of people that play Call Of Duty? Otherwise this doesn't make sense.

Other games have proven his envisionment to be false. 

Also, how are ingame-comms creating such a chaos, but 3rd. party comms are totally enabling everybody to work together flawlessly 😄 What a great analysis of the concept.

 

I think some nay-sayers underestimate the effect of how structure can motivate people to "play by the same rules".

In Squad, since we used this as an successful example, people are either supporting their squadleader or they get replaced by players who will. Guess what, people learn very fast that they get kicked out of squads if they behave like a dick. You can then run around the map alone behaving like a dick till you get kicked out of the game. :) 

The outcome of this the absence of idiot-behaviour. So in case such a problem would occur, this will solve it.

 

After some time, people know what is expected and the pool of capable players is growing. Same would happen here, and probably even faster.

And everybody who has his year long buddies, will just form closed flight with his buddies without any new people and nothing will change.

 

The effect that i think is most needed are coherent groups of airplanes flying sorties to destroy assigned targets. Basically creating an atmosphere you get from campaign, just with real people. 

 

 

 

 

 

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And your not listening at all, no one said anything against having an in game voice app, what we all said is we'd avoid it like the plague.  We aren't looking for your structure, we already have one. ;)

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On 10/9/2019 at 11:29 PM, [CPT]Crunch said:

And your not listening at all,

Don't get me wrong, everybody gets it, you personally and a handful of your friends don't need it. 

Fair enough. Thank you for your opinion. 

 

I don't want to convince you and your friends. I am merely discussing an idea with people and so far there is quite some people who like the idea. 😊

 

23 hours ago, [CPT]CptJackSparrow said:

Okie dokie, but Jason still said no.

 

😃

Thank you for your input. 😘

 

 

 

 

Edited by KB-Kriechbaum

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Would love for this to be a higher priority, it really would make the game great. 

It would be basically required for the marshal system we've heard the team talk about. I know Jason has said no, but nevertheless I want to put my word out that this is something important

The system would need to require you to join a "squad" (like Squad's VOIP), with features like squad locking, command channels and mutes. Think of how this game is for a new player, they jump on MP and it's overwhelming, airfields, planes, objectives... you take off and you're all alone then you get bounced and die. Rinse and repeat. In a sim game like this VOIP is crucial, and requiring each new player to find websites with IP's/Discord links which often end up empty because everybody's flying on their own custom VOIP server & service means you don't end up meeting people and learning.

The rest (radio sfx, distance attenuation) is extra and not crucial, but a nice thought.

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I like this idea too, for a couple of reasons:

 

VR - if the controls for VOIP were built into the game it would save me having to break the immersion by removing the headset if I need to switch channels, mute somebody or whatever. Push to talk would also be great. Maybe there is some existing work-around for all this? But I would certainly value it being in the game. 
 

New players - which kinda includes me, especially for MP. There is a really steep learning curve in this game. Figuring out that teaming up is a really really good idea and then figuring out how to find someone to team up with and how all the mechanics of that work adds to that learning hurdle and perhaps makes it less likely that people will stick with it for long enough to learn and keeps the servers quieter in the long term. Having it as a default that you can opt out of could make the process a bit easier. How well it would work in practise I don’t know - will be interesting to see what Air Marshall does. 

I killed an embarrassing number of friendlies in my first few MP flights (having moved across from War Thunder sim battles where a tiny blue indicator makes this much less likely). Who knows how many of them might be alive today if I’d had someone with a bit more experience warning me off?


So yeah, this is something I’d be happy to see too. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 1:41 PM, Seapiglet said:

Having it as a default that you can opt out of could make the process a bit easier. How well it would work in practise I don’t know - will be interesting to see what Air Marshall does. 
 

 

 

i tihnk that would be the best way, I agree that we should wait for air marshall first, and see

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Here are two subjects we had already created relating to it.
I also agree that the use of the onboard radio would be important for the interest of the game.

 

But I do not think that using the voip similar to the operation of "squad" or "post scriptum" would be acceptable.

If we have to use comuniquation via the game, it would have to match the specificities of the different radios of the different aircraft, taking into account the terrain, weather, distances, state of the plane, etc. etc.
And that's the real difficulty.

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I've always loved the idea of in-game coms, not sure why so many people are against it.

Imo coms don't have to be complex, all you'd need is squad coms and team coms.

 

Squad coms would allow you to talk with someone in your squad (could be people that have each other selected as friends in the players tab. Group coms would allow you to talk to your whole team. Both of these options would be optional and could always be muted just like any other game.

 

The same way we have optional pilot physiology, and optional view settings, why not have optional coms?

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3 hours ago, -IRRE-Axurit said:

....would have to match the specificities of the different radios of the different aircraft, taking into account the terrain, weather, distances, state of the plane, etc. etc.

 

This kind of "radio simulation" is for DCS standards, for this game a VOIP like in ARMA3 is OK, can talk to all on your side, to guys that join a squad, can mute inconvenient guys...

 

Besides some WWII era radios are very limited, TR.9D (HF) used by RAF fighters in B of B:

 

- "The TR.9D operated in lower HF, between 4.3 to 6.6 MHz. It was crystal controlled, and had a range of 5 miles air-to-air, and 35 miles air-to-ground."

- "A further handicap was that an aircraft transmitter-receiver carried only one channel, so there was no communication between squadrons,"

- “Pip-Squeak was the code word for (IFF) equipment installed in at least two key aircraft in each RAF Sector Station’s Flight or Squadron.

When enabled, Pip-Squeak regularly keyed the Hurricane or Spitfire radio transmitter, usually a TR9D, for 14 seconds every minute (prevent their use as RT), to allow ground-based direction finding stations to take bearings and thereby determine the position of the Squadron Leader’s aircraft and hence the general location of his Squadron.” 

 

Latter TR1133 VHF version (e.g. in Spit. IV) have four channels.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sokol1

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On 10/9/2019 at 4:54 AM, KB-Kriechbaum said:

Borrowed from @Feathered_IV

 

This is how I envision built in game comms, and feathered summed it up so well.

 

-> You assume that the people playing IL2 are the same kind of people that play Call Of Duty?

 

No, many of us have been doing this for years.  We've tried flying with randoms. 

 

It.  Does.  Not.  Work.

 

We don't want the developers wasting time and resources on something that we know will not work.  

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28 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

No, many of us have been doing this for years.  We've tried flying with randoms. 

 

It.  Does.  Not.  Work.

 

We don't want the developers wasting time and resources on something that we know will not work.  

 

 

I wouldn't call it a waste of time, and no, you haven't tried comms as some of us here envision it. No combat flight sim has implemented them yet. 

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8 hours ago, SAG said:

 

 

I wouldn't call it a waste of time, and no, you haven't tried comms as some of us here envision it. No combat flight sim has implemented them yet. 

 

Flying with randoms  is flying with randoms.  It doesn’t matter how you try to dress it up as something different.  And it does not work.

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Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Flying with randoms  is flying with randoms.  It doesn’t matter how you try to dress it up as something different.  And it does not work.

 

 

It works for me and many others, is it the best experience? no. Is it better than flying alone in MP? yes. Is it a way of meeting people so that they stop being random at some point? also yes.

sure, these are all my opinions, but you surely should/could stop stating your own, as if they were facts.

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2 hours ago, SAG said:

 

 

It works for me and many others, is it the best experience? no. Is it better than flying alone in MP? yes. Is it a way of meeting people so that they stop being random at some point? also yes.

 

‘There is a BoX Teamspeak server for that.  That’s how I met people to fly with.  Problem solved.

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9 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

‘There is a BoX Teamspeak server for that.  That’s how I met people to fly with.  Problem solved.

 

You met people like that? but I thought you said that flying with random people "Did. Not. Work."

 

Anyway, it is not a solution for everyone in the game simply because it is not integrated with the game; In your opinion the problem is solved, in the opinion of others it has not been.

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1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

‘There is a BoX Teamspeak server for that.  That’s how I met people to fly with.  Problem solved.

 

TS is the abomination of the real-time communications. It's a 20th century solution to a 21st century problem.

 

Discord is a little bit better. You can see all servers in single window. However, the major problem is you must be invited there, or find the link somewhere, i.e. there isn't a single place to view ALL comm servers with all rooms and squads and etc etc etc. And even there you still don't have a single pane of glass to see where everyone is, which server they're on, etc, etc.

 

If you fly with the same 2-3 people then a cell phone is a solution. But if you're interested in meeting different players, changing squads, and generally expand your social presence there isn't an easy option to do so.

 

So, no, problem isn't solved.

Edited by moosya

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Honest question. Are there a lot of people out there who want to use voice chat that currently don't because its not in-game?

 

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21 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Honest question. Are there a lot of people out there who want to use voice chat that currently don't because its not in-game?

 

 

I know of a few, but it's hard to meet more as they're not in comms :P  I sometimes don't use them myself as it is inconvenient. But to say if there are many or few is beyond me. I think the best way is to got to the forums and make our voices heard, that way we can all get a better idea.

 

So would you like in game voice-comms in one way or another? or do you think it is not something that would benefit the community? 

Edited by SAG

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1 hour ago, moosya said:

 

 

 

 But if you're interested in meeting different players, changing squads, and generally expand your social presence there isn't an easy option to do so.

 

So, no, problem isn't solved.

 

If it's a problem for people, I submit that it's a problem largely of their own making.  If someone isn't getting on comms because installing Teamspeak or Discord and joining a server isn't "easy" enough option, then I definitely don't think I would want to fly with them.  They want scarce resources taken away from a whole host of other things that people are demanding from the game because they are too lazy to spend 10 or 15 minutes figuring out how those third party comms system works? 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

If it's a problem for people, I submit that it's a problem largely of their own making. 

 

 

That's a cop out position that can be applied to pretty much anything in this game. Compromise. And it's not about laziness either. On top of it you're not counting the VR players, for whom (myself included) it's a major PITA to switch between applications, join/unjoin channels, mute, unmute folks, change volume, etc. With discord it's barely feasible, but TS is a no-go from the get-go.

 

I do agree with you wholeheartedly that it'll be a major resource hog if added to the current dserver build. There's a need for some external integration support between the IL2, some sort of a Lobby and the VoIP client (with either cloud based voip service or hosted).

 

The idea here is to reduce or eliminate the fragmentation of the user community in IL2 if you indeed are looking to grow the presence of this title on the internet.

 

The current solutions don't allow for that.

 

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I don't understand why this energy isn't being focused towards the server owners. DCS has several very good servers (with varying levels of professionalism) that require a password. To get that password you must join the discord, just hop on, you don't have to say anything if you don't want to. However, I myself (an introvert) soon found myself participating simply because it adds that much to the experience. Some of the servers are set up with ground control roles and everything (not everyone listens to them, but that's ok, it still works). It allows those that want to team up to do so, and those that don't are not forced to, and can even mute the channel if they so choose. 

 

I don't see why 1C should be forced to divert development resources to do this, when the tools are already there - just nobody chooses to use or enforce them on servers. 

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24 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

That's a cop out position that can be applied to pretty much anything in this game. Compromise. And it's not about laziness either. On top of it you're not counting the VR players, for whom (myself included) it's a major PITA to switch between applications, join/unjoin channels, mute, unmute folks, change volume, etc. With discord it's barely feasible, but TS is a no-go from the get-go.

 

I do agree with you wholeheartedly that it'll be a major resource hog if added to the current dserver build. There's a need for some external integration support between the IL2, some sort of a Lobby and the VoIP client (with either cloud based voip service or hosted).

 

The idea here is to reduce or eliminate the fragmentation of the user community in IL2 if you indeed are looking to grow the presence of this title on the internet.

 

The current solutions don't allow for that.

 

 

The cop out position is that you have decided that things as you describe are an insurmountable barrier and that the developers will magically be solving it by incorporating much of exactly the same requirements "in-game".  Who do you think is going to be tasked with switching channels, muting/unmuting, volume changing etc?  Presumably this will all be automatic in your in-game system, and you won't have to do anything?  It's all moot anyway, they announced that they aren't doing it.  I guess that could change, but if it does, a lot of people will be perfectly correct to be saying "you mean that you did this in-game comm system, but didn't fix x, y or z, that has been outstanding for years???"  Sounds like a pretty big job to do this, for questionable gain.

 

Edited by SeaSerpent
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1 minute ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

The cop out position is that you have decided that things as you describe are an insurmountable barrier and that the developers will magically be solving it by incorporating much of exactly the same requirements "in-game".  Who do you think is going to be tasked with switching channels, muting/unmuting, volume changing etc?  Presumably this will all be automatic in your in-game system, and you won't have to do anything?  It's all moot anyway, they announced that they aren't doing it.  I guess that could change, but if it does, a lot of people will be perfectly correct to be saying "you mean that you did this in-game comm system, but didn't fix x, y or z, that has been outstanding for years???"

 

missing my point. In VR everything is doable as long as the interface is shown inside the headset. Discord is not a VR application, it's displayed on the flat screen, to which you'd need to alt-tab from the game, take off the headset, etc bla bla bla. 

 

You're not offering any solid reasons why it shouldn't be done though. Yes, for some folks something else is important, and for others it's the comms. My point was about the fragmented collaboration/communication and I totally understand the difficulty of fixing it. But brushing it off under the premise "you're lazy, spend 15 minutes to learn about this new and exciting app (that only does X and doesn't fit everyone anyway)" isn't exactly a constructive approach to solving this. 

 

I use discord, but it's only useful when the people are actually on-line and inside the comm channels, whereas I join MP and I see a ton of people playing Il2. Where are they? How do I find them? Are they all just so lazy to install some 3rd party app, configure it, find the servers, bla bla bla.. 

 

Honestly, I'd like the devs on focusing solving the VR performance issues before any comms anyway. I know this game-based VoIP is never gonna happen. But it is sad because of the above.

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1 minute ago, SAG said:

 

I know of a few, but it's hard to meet more as they're not in comms :P  I sometimes don't use them myself as it is inconvenient. But to say if there are many or few is beyond me. I think the best way is to got to the forums and make our voices heard, that way we can all get a better idea.

 

So would you like in game comms in one way or another? or do you think it is not something that would benefit the community? 

It's on my "Cool to have" list but I don't see it as essential. The barriers to getting on voice communications are not non-existent but downloading  and running Discord is pretty basic so its not all that difficult to do. I regularly get on the server Discords or Teamspeak (just for TAW really) and usually find  players if server numbers are high.

My fear is that it would introduce a lot of work for the devs and a lot of overhead for the servers for a small return. 

I also feel that some of the things people are proposing just wouldn't work that well...such as having squads where a leader can kick you off the channel or something.  Setting up who was squad leader and so on is just another thing that takes time.

Squads will likely continue to use the third party platforms if they can't configure things to keep random people out, and if they CAN configure things to keep randoms out then we are still dealing with a fragmentary community. If the in-game radios are distance-restricted then there is an incentive to use Discord or Teamspeak, which is not.
 

 

16 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

I use discord, but it's only useful when the people are actually on-line and inside the comm channels, whereas I join MP and I see a ton of people playing Il2. Where are they? How do I find them? Are they all just so lazy to install some 3rd party app, configure it, find the servers, bla bla bla.. 

 


What makes you think they want to participate in voice comms at all? A lot of people are in squads, so they use their squad discords/teamspeaks. People who aren't in squads but want to use voice comms use the server discords/Teamspeaks. How do we know there are people who want to use voice comms and participate in an organized way, but won't use the third party comms?
 

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4 hours ago, SAG said:

 

You met people like that? but I thought you said that flying with random people "Did. Not. Work."

 

It doesn’t work for flying on a server.  It does work for meeting people and then finding your own channel.  

 

And the BEST part is that we already have Teamspeak and Discord servers that fill that exact need.  Problem solved!

3 hours ago, moosya said:

 

TS is the abomination of the real-time communications. It's a 20th century solution to a 21st century problem.

 

Discord is a little bit better. You can see all servers in single window. However, the major problem is you must be invited there, or find the link somewhere, i.e. there isn't a single place to view ALL comm servers with all rooms and squads and etc etc etc. And even there you still don't have a single pane of glass to see where everyone is, which server they're on, etc, etc.

 

If you fly with the same 2-3 people then a cell phone is a solution. But if you're interested in meeting different players, changing squads, and generally expand your social presence there isn't an easy option to do so.

 

So, no, problem isn't solved.

 

So the developers of a combat flight sim are now supposed to design a comms package that has more features and functionality than is currently offered by dedicated comms software developers??   You can’t seriously think that this is actually a realistic option.

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:


What makes you think they want to participate in voice comms at all? A lot of people are in squads, so they use their squad discords/teamspeaks. People who aren't in squads but want to use voice comms use the server discords/Teamspeaks. How do we know there are people who want to use voice comms and participate in an organized way, but won't use the third party comms?
 

 

don't be your own echo chamber, bud. If in-game VoIP was a fad it'd pass by now. But it's not. Every single FPS offers it. Even the consoles embraced it. Do you know why? Because it's a no-brainer communications tool. Especially for the noobs. Where do I fly? How do I do this? How do I bomb, etc etc etc... But instead this game offers a limited chat and a manual document that's gazillion pages long. This forum is great, however it's off-line communications when it comes to learning and ultimately playing the game. The 3rd party tools are a crutch that noobs don't expect nor want.

 

I'm being realistic. I know devs won't focus on it. But at least the community needs to understand the reasoning behind why people want it.

 

50 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

It doesn’t work for flying on a server.  It does work for meeting people and then finding your own channel.  

 

So the developers of a combat flight sim are now supposed to design a comms package that has more features and functionality than is currently offered by dedicated comms software developers??   You can’t seriously think that this is actually a realistic option.

 

neither TeamSpeak nor Discord solves the problem, how many times do I have to say that. It may solve YOUR problem, but not others. Neither of these tools is a panacea for a broken communications that must exist in a squad based title. Really, look at any squad based game, or a title that requires a squad based play in order to win. They all offer an in-game voip because it's the easiest way to get people to actually make people play in squads and keep playing. If you've never dealt with any end user product design the first path to adoption is the ease of use. Obviously Il2 isn't exactly an arcade title, but people do come here from the arcade experience and get met with an environment where they can't communicate like they used to.

 

I'm not suggesting for devs to do anything. That's not my point, so don't jump in to conclusions, I'm merely trying to make the seasoned TS/discord vets on this forum understand why their solution is not a solution at all and simply a work-around that for a noob is neither simple, easy to use, or inviting.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, moosya said:

I'm not suggesting for devs to do anything. That's not my point, so don't jump in to conclusions, I'm merely trying to make the seasoned TS/discord vets on this forum understand why their solution is not a solution at all and simply a work-around that for a noob is neither simple, easy to use, or inviting.

 

 

 

Then you are completely missing the point.  No one is saying that the TS/Discord option is going to provide every comms option that someone might want.  But it provides a means for people to communicate while flying together.  And since the perfect comms solution is not likely going to be provided any time soon, especially by these developers, your best option is TS/Discord. 

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41 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

don't be your own echo chamber, bud. If in-game VoIP was a fad it'd pass by now. But it's not. Every single FPS offers it. Even the consoles embraced it. Do you know why? Because it's a no-brainer communications tool. Especially for the noobs. Where do I fly? How do I do this? How do I bomb, etc etc etc... But instead this game offers a limited chat and a manual document that's gazillion pages long. This forum is great, however it's off-line communications when it comes to learning and ultimately playing the game. The 3rd party tools are a crutch that noobs don't expect nor want.

 

I'm being realistic. I know devs won't focus on it. But at least the community needs to understand the reasoning behind why people want it.

 

 

neither TeamSpeak nor Discord solves the problem, how many times do I have to say that. It may solve YOUR problem, but not others. Neither of these tools is a panacea for a broken communications that must exist in a squad based title. Really, look at any squad based game, or a title that requires a squad based play in order to win. They all offer an in-game voip because it's the easiest way to get people to actually make people play in squads and keep playing. If you've never dealt with any end user product design the first path to adoption is the ease of use. Obviously Il2 isn't exactly an arcade title, but people do come here from the arcade experience and get met with an environment where they can't communicate like they used to.

 

I'm not suggesting for devs to do anything. That's not my point, so don't jump in to conclusions, I'm merely trying to make the seasoned TS/discord vets on this forum understand why their solution is not a solution at all and simply a work-around that for a noob is neither simple, easy to u

 

I’m not being an echo chamber, just expressing an opinion. People have popped onto Discord’s I’ve been on and asked for advice on taking off, etc. By the way. It’s not that much harder than with in game comms, lots of gamers already use discord. As for documentation...I kind of want to see this document that’s a bajillion pages lonG. There’s almost no up to date documentation outside the manual and the tech specs.

 

I’m just asking people if there really are that many people out there that are wanting in game voice chat and won’t make the leap to Discord or TS. I get that it’s not a perfect solution but I’m having a hard time believing that someone who wants voice comms isn’t just sucking it up and dealing with the issues to get some voice communication. Do we have polls? Do we know a dozen people flying silently and alone because they don’t like Discord? Or is it just that if we make it easier people who don’t care all that much will hop on the chat? 

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5 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

 

I’m just asking people if there really are that many people out there that are wanting in game voice chat and won’t make the leap to Discord or TS. I get that it’s not a perfect solution but I’m having a hard time believing that someone who wants voice comms isn’t just sucking it up and dealing with the issues to get some voice communication. Do we have polls? Do we know a dozen people flying silently and alone because they don’t like Discord? Or is it just that if we make it easier people who don’t care all that much will hop on the chat? 

 

 

here's a very basic repeatable every-day-every-hour on any server use-case that neither TS nor Discord can meet/provide:

1) join any server with 6-10 people on it.

2) you don't know a single soul there

3) you ask "hey, do you guys want to get on coms?". Everyone goes "sure, yeah, that'd be cool"

4) you ask about discord, if anyone has it. One guy goes "I have TS", another goes "what's Discord?.. what's TS?" .. another guy goes "I have discord"

5) you ask the last guy - hey, since you have a discord, do you want to pair up?

6) he says "sure, yes"..

7) then there is about 5-10 minutes of frantic exchange of chat messages where the server is, where to get the link, etc.

😎 then you sit and wait for the guy to show up. 

9) the guy shows up and tells you that he has only 10 mins of playtime left.

10) ten minutes later you're back at 3)

 

Now imagine you have in-game voip. 😄   You join the squad, you start organizing a mission, or join an existing one.

 

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5 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

Now imagine you have in-game voip. 😄   You join the squad, you start organizing a mission, or join an existing one.

 

 

And yet the dude who joins you still only has 10 minutes left to fly.  Unfortunately, he's such a tool that you wish it was only 2 minutes. 

 

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Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

 

And yet the dude who joins you still only has 10 minutes left to fly.  Unfortunately, he's such a tool that you wish it was only 2 minutes. 

 

 

dude, why are you responding..  wasn't talking to you, you've got your own agenda going, just stick to it.

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21 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

dude, why are you responding..  wasn't talking to you, you've got your own agenda going, just stick to it.

 

I am sticking with it.  Just demonstrating how easy it is to come up with hypotheticals that support whatever situation you want to support.  

 

If there is someone who is playing MP who isn't on comms and wants to be, it's not that difficult to find out where the BoX Teamspeak server is.  

Edited by BraveSirRobin

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12 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Flying with randoms  is flying with randoms.  It doesn’t matter how you try to dress it up as something different.  And it does not work.

Sure it does, my buddy and I flew with some random players the other day, we ended up hoping on their discord and had a good flight.

It took us forever to get the coms sorted out, if we had coms in game it wouldve been quick and easy.

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3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

If there is someone who is playing MP who isn't on comms and wants to be, it's not that difficult to find out where the BoX Teamspeak server is.  

 

actually, TS is not user friendly at all. I couldn't get a new player to join me recently that I was trying to help with a new pc build. the point is, there are a lot of channels and servers between Discord and Teamspeak and finding one that is populated is just frustrating, if we had an in-game "Channel" for each server that is running, then anyone on that server would potentially participate in "comms".

 

The devs don't necessarily have to be the ones to develop the VOIP app either, they could just take some time to integrate an existing solution and make it usable in-game, they could reach a deal with TS or Discord or whatever else as some other games have done in the past. I'm not saying it wouldn't take work, but perhaps it is not as much as some people seem to think it is since a 3rd party could be the one to do the larger part of the work.

 

A good thing that could come to IL2:GB is ease of use, this would reduce the entry "barrier" for new players and this could be aided by the community through easy (read: voice) comms. I say "could" but i'm pretty sure, since I have seen countless players trying to help through chat or trying to get other "newbies" into TS or discord channels, I have personally tried to help many players over the years and even I, that have been around here since 2014 and know the ropes, find it frustrating at best; I can't imagine how a new player would feel.

 

We all want the success and growth of IL2:GB (at least thats what I tihnk) and for me, ease-of use is a main factor in that. Maybe people who don't want to download TS or Discord and learn how to use it are lazy as @SeaSerpent said , or maybe they are just regular consumers who expect that their entertainment products and/services are actually entertaining and not more work than they expect; you know, pretty standard consumer mentality nowadays.

 

Edited by SAG
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47 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Sure it does, my buddy and I flew with some random players the other day, we ended up hoping on their discord and had a good flight.

It took us forever to get the coms sorted out, if we had coms in game it wouldve been quick and easy.

 

Um, clearly it didn't take you forever to work it out.  But that's great you found some randoms to fly with.  You just proved that we don't need in game comms.

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Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Um, clearly it didn't take you forever to work it out.  But that's great you found some randoms to fly with.  You just proved that we don't need in game comms.

No, it took us about 10-15min. My point was that in-game coms would have made the process easier and quicker.

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14 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

No, it took us about 10-15min. My point was that in-game coms would have made the process easier and quicker.

 

I've seen people get the address and password for the BoX TS server.  2-3 minutes.  I'd prefer the devs work on useful features rather than saving you those 2-3 minutes.

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It is true that for the moment, on servers like WOL, KOTA or CB which are populated by solitary or paired wolves, flying mainly to shoot other pairs or solitaires, the communication is not necessary.
Most of these players do not care about the victory of their team, and prefer to inflate their stats.

 

But on servers like TAW, the interest is to hit the objectives on the ground, to change the front in your favor, and the objective of the hunters is only the interception and coverage of big butts.

With the new visibility, it will be very difficult to reach a bomber objective without coverage of fighter groups.

 

Before we could cross the map away from the most frequented targets, to hit strategic targets with one or two bombers, but in the future I doubt that this is possible, without being seen very far by many fighter.

So we will have the opportunity to coordinate bombers and fighters in a natural way.

 

What some people do not understand is that if a "radio" system is included in the game, groups of fighters or bombers will still be able to use discord or ts internally, but COULD easily join another group to coordinate.

 

(leader group A on discord) <= In game radio => (leader group B on TS)

 


I know that for the moment Jason is not in favor of adding this function in the game, for reasons that we can easily understand.

But would not it be possible to do as on DCS with simple radio ?

 

From what I understand, it is a plugin TS, so external to the game, which uses the available commands of the plane, and different information of distances between the planes, and certainly other useful things.

 

I am not computer scientist, but maybe this sollution would allow the studio not to manage the vocal part but only the part command and access via map menu.

 

Sorry for the block translated by google ...

 

As a reminder about Marshal Mode:

 

source https://stormbirds.blog/2019/02/06/part-1-an-interview-with-jason-williams-and-daniel-tuseev-il-2-great-battles-series/

 

You’ve talked about building an Air (and Ground) Marshal feature for a couple of years. How is the planning for that mode coming along and what are you hoping players will be able to get out of having a feature like that once it’s complete?

 

Jason: “We’re in the initial stages of development now. We’ve agreed to a design and begun optimizations of the GUI which was needed before we start the main building process. The design, if it works, has been improved from my early concept into a really neat system. Our hope is that it will make MP more interesting and increase teamwork as it was in real life. It will be an optional feature for servers if they don’t like it. It could be a game-changer for online wars and all forms of MP if the community takes such a feature seriously and tries to fly like a real coordinated air force.”

 

Daniel: “Marshall mode design is established and it is already in development. It will be a huge gameplay feature, comparable to Career by complexity of development. If everything will be good – this feature will be done before release of Bodenplatte. This feature also requires many GUI based improvements and optimizations, some of them you will see in 3.010 as a “bonus” from Marshall mode development which is still in progress. In result players on populated multiplayer game servers will have a new layer of gameplay and cooperation. First of all – this feature should bring an obvious and dynamically changed vision to each player of what multiplayer mission objectives are and what is the player coalition strategy and current tactical tasks. Also, it should bring a new proximity to immersion of real aerial battle to the players.”

 

A few more clarifications from Jason:

 

"When I can show you all about it I will. We have the early Alpha working, but not ready for Beta yet. It's a system to manage the battle, either Dogfight or a CO-OP. Completely optional for servers, but whatever side has a competent Air Marshal will have an advantage. Information coming into the Marshal can be used to coordinate routes, targets, escorts, create units (from players on the server) and assign a Squadron Commander to those units. And some other tools will be included like a tool for calculating distance and heading and ways to communicate strategy for your side. Marshals who master updating the map and using voice comms effectively will make MP a blast. Think of it as ATC and HQ rolled into one.

My goal was to stop having MP be a game of wandering around looking for the fight with no coordination (a common complaint). My past fun in MP was always within squad based scenarios. There will be built in limits to info and a certain fog of war so not all info is known to everyone. Each Marshal will see his side's activity unless certain conditions are met to see enemy elements. 

I wanted squad play to be more fun and also allow individuals to join and get some direction.  I also wanted there to be a new type of player - The Marshal. I expect some players to just want to do that and get good at it. 

 

So that is some basic info for you. We're hesitant to say or show much more because we need to make sure it works first. After seeing the pre-Alpha I am cautiously optimistic that it will work as we planned.

 

Jason"

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6 hours ago, -IRRE-Axurit said:


I know that for the moment Jason is not in favor of adding this function in the game, for reasons that we can easily understand.

But would not it be possible to do as on DCS with simple radio ?

 

From what I understand, it is a plugin TS, so external to the game, which uses the available commands of the plane, and different information of distances between the planes, and certainly other useful things.

 

I am not computer scientist, but maybe this sollution would allow the studio not to manage the vocal part but only the part command and access via map menu.

 

 

 

 

This is more along the lines of how I think it could be implemented, perhaps even have a button in game to install TeamSpeak/Discord/Whatever they choose. Now, I know this would require permissions from those companies, but that would be more of an administrative task rather than developmental.

 

I'm also eager to see what Air-Marshall brings to the table, and perhaps the improved GUI layer could also help steer new players into the existing TS/Discord Channels.

 

 

11 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I've seen people get the address and password for the BoX TS server.  2-3 minutes.  I'd prefer the devs work on useful features rather than saving you those 2-3 minutes.

 

That's all good and dandy as long as people already know how to use TS or Discord.

 

I've personally tried for over 40 minutes to get new people in chat into a TS channel before giving up. But neither your anecdote, nor mine, proves either point.

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