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BlackSix

Developer Diary, Part X

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I have deleted some posts in this thread so if you see a post that you made is not here.. that is what happened.

 

Any explanation why? Obscenities, child pron links... ? ;) Or just Ministry of Love Truth at work?

 

Evolution of politics with TF was one of the main points of this part of dev diary, Russian BOS forums have free discussions on that topic, why not here? 

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Exactly right, MineFewer. We have all been utterly betrayed by this update! I demand my money b....!

Oh right, I haven't paid anything as the product does not yet exist and this was just an update to keep people interested and show the real aircraft in action, something that the developers thought might appeal to members of a flight sim forum.

 

 

 

 

Or just Ministry of Love Truth at work?

 

 

BINGO!

 

Evolution of politics with TF was one of the main points of this part of dev diary, Russian BOS forums have free discussions on that topic, why not here? 

This question is fair. I haven't checked the Russian forums (can't read the language)so I don't know how the discussion has gone there.

However, given the proven inability of many people in the English-language sim forums to debate anything without poisoning the atmosphere, that would be the reason for avoiding it.

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BINGO!

This question is fair. I haven't checked the Russian forums (can't read the language)so I don't know how the discussion has gone there.

However, given the proven inability of many people in the English-language sim forums to debate anything without poisoning the atmosphere, that would be the reason for avoiding it.

 

The discussion there goes like so: no obscenities/name calling, no lying, no slander - no foul. A good model I think :)

 

Whats "poisoning of atmosphere"? Difficult questions? They will be posed anyway and answered in a less balanced way on other internet forums - local Ministry of Truth will only harm BOS in the long run. 

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For "poisoning of the atmosphere", have a look at what happened on some CloD related forums. It'S a tough question, isn't it? How much moderation is needed. Depends a lot on the attitude and participation of the members.

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For "poisoning of the atmosphere", have a look at what happened on some CloD related forums.

 

I personally think there is at times too much concern about the past on the CLoD forums, affecting this forum in how it is handled. But that is just me.

 

But back OT, nice update, it is very appreciated!

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The discussion there goes like so: no obscenities/name calling, no lying, no slander - no foul. A good model I think :)

 

Whats "poisoning of atmosphere"? Difficult questions? They will be posed anyway and answered in a less balanced way on other internet forums - local Ministry of Truth will only harm BOS in the long run. 

 In fact it is not just a normal "innocent" poster vs local Ministry of love/truth issue: actually some poster like myself for instance find that there is indeed some poisoning atmosphere (all the talk and premature comparison involving CoD and other teams of modders). It is really annoying and the path these guys chose is not the poor innocent's one: they try to impose some kind of agenda. The tone is not appropriate, just remember the "fake 3D cockpit"??????? statement in the last update... There seems to be a deliberate will to bash and to discourage the development team, at least this is my feeling. To me this sort of behaviour is already harming BOS by contributing to lower morale and enthusiasm, like an attempt to spread doubt on what the dev team is able to do.

Edited by RegRag1977
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Could be, could be. 

 

 

Anyway, let's return to the topic and leave enthralling moderation philosophies behind.

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 In fact it is not just a normal "innocent" poster vs local Ministry of love/truth issue: actually some poster like myself for instance find that there is indeed some poisoning atmosphere (all the talk and premature comparison involving CoD and other teams of modders). It is really annoying and the path these guys chose is not the poor innocent's one: they try to impose some kind of agenda. The tone is not appropriate, just remember the "fake 3D cockpit"??????? statement in the last update... There seems to be a deliberate will to bash and to discourage the development team, at least this is my feeling. To me this sort of behaviour is already harming BOS by contributing to lower morale and enthusiasm, like an attempt to spread doubt on what the dev team is able to do.

 

I also sense negativity towards BOS from some quarters (in many cases based on lies and slander), but its only fuelled further by lack of honest discussion. 

 

For "poisoning of the atmosphere", have a look at what happened on some CloD related forums. It'S a tough question, isn't it? How much moderation is needed. Depends a lot on the attitude and participation of the members.

 

Imho yellow forums phenomenon was part of a overall PR failure by the previous team. I really like Loft's approach this time round, so forums should also be in a much more healthy state. In fact they already are on the Russian side. But English community is behind the language barrier and does not benefit from small doses of common sense injected by Loft, Han, An Petrovich and other devs on almost daily basis. Which is unfortunate :(

 

Moderation only became topic after the actual topic- TF relations discussion was moderated out ;)

Edited by 89-

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I also sense negativity towards BOS from some quarters, but its only fuelled further by lack of honest discussion. 

 

 

Imho yellow forums phenomenon was part of a overall PR failure by the previous team. I really like Loft's approach this time round, so forums should also be in a much more healthy state. In fact they already are on the Russian side. But English community is behind the language barrier and does not benefit from small doses of common sense injected by Loft, Han, An Petrovich and other devs on almost daily basis. Which is unfortunate :(

 

Moderation only became topic after the actual topic- TF realtions discussion was moderated out ;)

 

I reall ywonder, how come they speak so little English? I mean, simply by being on the Internet you can't help but learn enough to engage in a basic dialog, do you not?

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Not much harder than learning Russian, I guess.

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I reall ywonder, how come they speak so little English? I mean, simply by being on the Internet you can't help but learn enough to engage in a basic dialog, do you not?

 

There is a pretty big Russian internet, and also I conjecture that they dont kill time on the internet watchin RayWilliamJohnson et al but work on making sims;) Learning a language is not easy for an adult.

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Royraiden, 'respect' might well include staying on topic. This is a discussion about BoS development. What TD do with CloD is irrelevant.

 

Well, this discussion is about part 10 of dev diaries, which included info about TF relations ;)

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Royraiden, 'respect' might well include staying on topic. This is a discussion about BoS development. What TD do with CloD is irrelevant.

Am I the only one who read the question about ATAG(should be TF) and Loft's answer???If anything that question and answer had nothing to do with BOS development to begin with.

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I very much doubt that the devs will make the mistake of commenting about ATAG/TF/CloD again....

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I very much doubt that the devs will make the mistake of commenting about ATAG/TF/CloD again....

 

They shouldn't of done in the first place.

 

And to expect people not to discuss it once done is clueless.

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I very much doubt that the devs will make the mistake of commenting about ATAG/TF/CloD again....

Well thats another story, I dont expect them either, also there is no need , at least not on the developer diary regarding BOS.

Edited by royraiden

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Well - I think that picking on the TF team that voluntarily are working day and night to fix the game that 1C left with major bugs is a bit more than I came take... They are not hacking it - they are trying to fix what should have been done by 1C to save the IL2 brand. As 1C will never use that code base again I think they should sight a deal that TF can get the code it they keep the requirement that you have to buy CloD to play the "TF patched" version. With no advertising and the awful reviews that CloD got it will never compete with BoM anyway...

 

Let's hope that 777 can restore the IL2 brand with BoB (and I think they will) - but let TF help all us disappointed buyers get a game that at least is playable. 

 

Far from picking on TF, Loft answered yesterday that if TF patch is successful, it is not infeasible for it to be made into global Steam patch. 

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.su/topic/281-???????

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Loft said (I cant find the link, but I am 100% certain) that he is head of ALL IL2- 1946, CloD and BoS now. He was saing that his head is full with BoS, Daidalos Team, potential win8 patch for CLoD etc. He is definitely the man to speak to about any IL2 now. 

Edited by 89-

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Loft said (I cant find the link, but I am 100% certain) that he is head of ALL IL2- 1946, CloD and BoS now. He was saing that his head is full with BoS, Daidalos Team, potential win8 patch for CLoD etc. He is definitely the man to speak to about any IL2 now. 

 

Interesting....I thought there were members of TD working within TF who would be aware of this.....

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There is a pretty big Russian internet, and also I conjecture that they dont kill time on the internet watchin RayWilliamJohnson et al but work on making sims;) Learning a language is not easy for an adult.

 

No, but they are professionals who have to face a market, its audience and other professionals outside of Russia. That alone should be plenty of reason to absorb whatever knowledge of the English language comes their way.

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Interesting....I thought there were members of TD working within TF who would be aware of this.....

 

Does it matter? Either way, TF have nothing to lose by contacting Loft in private to ask for clarification.

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Does it matter? Either way, TF have nothing to lose by contacting Loft in private to ask for clarification.

 

Your'e missing the point, if members of TD are working with TF then there must have already been lines of communication between them, does it really matter to anyone if 1C-777 need someone to go cap in hand begging for approval?

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No, but they are professionals who have to face a market, its audience and other professionals outside of Russia. That alone should be plenty of reason to absorb whatever knowledge of the English language comes their way.

 

As usual in evolution, one does not need to be perfect, only good enough. I guess their language skills (Russian, English, German, etc) are good enough - they got this far after all from their humble beginnings in a IL2 squad.

 

Also there is difference between technical (AnPetrovich had to study historical documents on French, German and English WW1 fighters) and conversational language.

Edited by 89-

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A little bit more on topic, what do you think about the sound of the I-16 in the air? Sounds pretty flat to me. Just bad microphones or is it what you can expect flying this bird? What will it be like in BoS?

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Any explanation why? Obscenities, child pron links... ? ;) Or just Ministry of Love Truth at work?

 

Evolution of politics with TF was one of the main points of this part of dev diary, Russian BOS forums have free discussions on that topic, why not here? 

The usual.... spam in the DD  .... Sideways attempts to rehash some of the CoD drama .... accusations of persecution based on nonsense.. that sort of thing.

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For the benefit of those of us who don't speak Russian ( ;) ), I see that Loft has posted a few more details regarding the plane set -

 

 

 

 

 

The list will be expanded gradually, declared:

LaGG-3 and Bf-109F-4

IL-2 (1942 model year) and Ju-87D-3

He-111 and Pe-2

 

Original: http://forum.il2sturmovik.su/topic/281-???????

Edited by AndyJWest

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I also sense negativity towards BOS from some quarters (in many cases based on lies and slander), but its only fuelled further by lack of honest discussion. 

 

 

Imho yellow forums phenomenon was part of a overall PR failure by the previous team. I really like Loft's approach this time round, so forums should also be in a much more healthy state. In fact they already are on the Russian side. But English community is behind the language barrier and does not benefit from small doses of common sense injected by Loft, Han, An Petrovich and other devs on almost daily basis. Which is unfortunate :(

 

Moderation only became topic after the actual topic- TF relations discussion was moderated out ;)

TF relations is in the DD so that is obviously not "taboo" .. What s taboo is the slightest sign of that discussion morphing into anything resembling what took place here during the first two weeks of this forum. As for those little doses of common sense I agree the language barrier may be an issue.. case in point the whole "boys" reference by Loft which was interpreted as trying to insult the ATAG team by some .. Those were the posts deleted among others and we all need to ratchet our sensitivity down a notch .. but as moderators we are tasked with keeping things in line and in doing that we cannot please everyone. I have found that it is better to err on the side of reasonable moderation rather than trust the maturity and good intentions of posters on flight sim forums.

 

They shouldn't of done in the first place.

 

And to expect people not to discuss it once done is clueless.

 

The problem is not in the discussion it is in the manner and evolution of the discussion. I for one am glad that he responded to the question. Don't forget the DDs are responses to us to questions raised by us.. so I would hope that at no point would the devs decide to not answer something because it might get some folks excited. That is why these boards have moderators to keep things on a certain plain.

 

We need to keep this thing on topic gents. The pruning shears are out. Keep it on topic and be civil.

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The usual.... spam in the DD  .... Sideways attempts to rehash some of the CoD drama .... accusations of persecution based on nonsense.. that sort of thing.

Could you explain to me how my post was related to everything you posted there? I understand that there are members who spam  on every chance they get to bash BOS or any other sim except CLOD but you deleted MY  post, which had nothing to do with all that.I repeat once again, I was on topic, I replied respectfully.Im not responsible for other member's attitude or the fact that some of them cant follow forum rules.

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Thanks for the update. 

 

Glad the pilot is ok and the plane repairable. 

 

Also like the philosophical discussion on simulation and glad they defined it so we're all on the same page. 

 

In regarding the CLOD and the mod correct. I see the devs for BOS communicating with us and keeping us updated. In the same they want to dialogue with the community, and all parts, especially their product and since 1C / 777 own the rights to CLOD, they expect dialogue from the community mods regarding it.

 

Team D did the same for IL-2. And it turned out great. But ATAG / team fusion / whoever is modding CLOD without dialogue to its owners is not cool. And the devs here are answering the question that was asked, and being honest. 

 

sometimes it does hurt to be honest

 

 

It's a lesson for modders, work with the devs, and its greener for both sides. In regarding Boyz II Men, amateurs are referred to boys and pros referred to men. It's not a put down. If you call a 5' 240 lb or   1.5m tall and  108 kg lady heavy, its calling it. Now there are nicer ways to say it but don't consider calling thing the way they are as a put down. 

 

I do feel alot of haters for BOS crew. If you go in banana mode, they're there. But look at what the dev's have given us with this game. Open and honest communication, a love for the genre, and constant updates. 

 

But you know the saying, some people roll up into Heaven and Paradise and still find something wrong with it. 

 

I'm happy a new sim with a promise that has more potential to fulfill our hopes than CLOD can, is coming out. I'm going to wait and check it out before talking smack. 

 

And Bear and Flatspin are pretty level headed regarding moderating. The ministry of truth junk, maybe look at modern day North Korea or China? 

 

Anycase thanks for the devs for giving us perspective on your game development. 

Edited by hiro

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Could you explain to me how my post was related to everything you posted there? I understand that there are members who spam  on every chance they get to bash BOS or any other sim except CLOD but you deleted MY  post, which had nothing to do with all that.I repeat once again, I was on topic, I replied respectfully.Im not responsible for other member's attitude or the fact that some of them cant follow forum rules.

 

Just post it again, the world is not perfect and mods were maybe overcautious... It happens. Imho, just don't take it personally and don't hold grudges against mods- they are doing a balancing act.

 

A lot of balancing acts on all flight sims forums apart from Russian BOS - but oh well, lets have mature conversations and discharge the unnecessary electricity from WW2 flight sims forums ;)

Edited by 89-

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Just post it again, the world is not perfect and mods were maybe overcautious... It happens. Imho, just don't take it personally and don't hold grudges against mods- they are doing a balancing act.

 

A lot of balancing acts on all flight sims forums apart from Russian BOS - but oh well, lets have mature conversations and discharge the unnecessary electricity from WW2 flight sims forums ;)

 

The only flaw is that some self appointed mods will rock up and cause havok in order to manupulate the actual mods into 'pruning'

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Could you explain to me how my post was related to everything you posted there? I understand that there are members who spam  on every chance they get to bash BOS or any other sim except CLOD but you deleted MY  post, which had nothing to do with all that.I repeat once again, I was on topic, I replied respectfully.Im not responsible for other member's attitude or the fact that some of them cant follow forum rules.

 

No. Get over it.. it happens.

 

Just post it again, the world is not perfect and mods were maybe overcautious... It happens. Imho, just don't take it personally and don't hold grudges against mods- they are doing a balancing act.

 

A lot of balancing acts on all flight sims forums apart from Russian BOS - but oh well, lets have mature conversations and discharge the unnecessary electricity from WW2 flight sims forums ;)

 

Don't. True. Perhaps. It does. Please don't. Sho 'nuff. You got that right. Let's.

 

The only flaw is that some self appointed mods will rock up and cause havok in order to manupulate the actual mods into 'pruning'

 

Those self appointed mods will find themselves unabkle to participate in activities here for a while.

 

Look guys.. don't take any of this personally. Should you chose to do so then make it personal and use the PM system.

 

This is a thread addressing DD X. It will not be locked or hidden or shut down because some folks either cannot or will not keep the thread OT.

 

ATAG & TF were mentioned in the DD.. hence the discussion. Keep the discussion within the realms of the DD and it will be fine. If anyone addresses moderation in this thread again their post will be deleted and they will be suspended. Keep it OT or be gone. If you have a beef with ME.. then PM me or suck it up.. or both but keep it out of this thread.

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Btw - if this thread disappeared for a while that was just because I hid it mistakenly. Hit the wrong button. Nothing else going on.

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You notice that puddle of oil on the ground..

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Btw - if this thread disappeared for a while that was just because I hid it mistakenly. Hit the wrong button. Nothing else going on.

 

 

It did, and yes I was wondering.

Glad to see it back.

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Very happy to see the thread back :) Conspiracy theories can go back to bed now.

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Hi BlackSix,

 

Introducing the concept of StoLuft units for communicating with air units from the ground is a very good idea, not to mention that it is also historical.

:help:

The same was done between Kriegsmarine and air units during the war at sea, but that's for the Malta/Mediterranean theater to come (hopefully !).

;)

Just a comment anyway, regarding the kind of missions that can be done : Recon (Aufkl???

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