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Do you like new tank gun aiming system (Poll)?

New tank gun aiming system - pro et contra  

165 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like new tank gun aiming system? Think it is better than old one?

    • Yes
      29
    • No
      102
    • "New tank gun aiming system"? What's that?
      34


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3 hours ago, No.322_Nocke said:

Please believe me that I am not trolling - but yes, all is fine, the turret moves as I would expect it to move. Not very fast. As expected, it is heavy. But I have to admit I have no idea how fast they rotated  in reality. 

Maybe it is about mouse acceleration,  and yours  is just too fast?

But what really makes me wonder about this entire thread is that I haven't  seen any change by the last update. For me all feels like always. Strange ...

 

 

Do you have your engine ON?))

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The current system is garbage. Can't understand why devs don't copy what Steel Beasts or Graviteam tactics do. At times it feels you have downed 34 shots of vodka

Edited by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal
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20 hours ago, No.322_Nocke said:

Please believe me that I am not trolling - but yes, all is fine, the turret moves as I would expect it to move. Not very fast. As expected, it is heavy. But I have to admit I have no idea how fast they rotated  in reality. 

Maybe it is about mouse acceleration,  and yours  is just too fast?

But what really makes me wonder about this entire thread is that I haven't  seen any change by the last update. For me all feels like always. Strange ...

 

Hey Nocke , thats really strange that you  haven't  seen any change by the last update

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Well I had now by chance that info stuff on you get when pressing  "I", I usually don't  do that. And indeed there was something  new, a white arrow,  and a circle floating around. Had not seen that before - was that this update, or the previous  one?

But still, if you are careful with your input and use the reset view button when needed all seems fine to me.

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24 minutes ago, No.322_Nocke said:

But still, if you are careful with your input and use the reset view button when needed all seems fine to me.

You probably aiming at full zoom (max size of sight net on your monitor). Reduce it in 2 times and try again. You will get something like this (see below).

I'm not swingig mouse left-reight-left or something as you can think lookibg at the video. I'm just trying turn my turret to the left as fast as I can! And what I get - my yellow pointer (vector) just haoticly turning around with huge step. My turret is out of control! I can't even stop it there where it is at the moment - it doesn't stop until reach yellow pointer!
While I fight the turret, my enemy kills me with pleasure...(

 

 

Edited by Lofte
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Wow, I never had a behaviour, that weird. Did you try it with your gunsight view zoomed in, until the triangle on top reaches the top of your screen. This would be the correct gunsight view, how it was IRL, and from my experiences, the turret never does that strange things.

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17 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Wow, I never had a behaviour, that weird

Zoom out a bit and try - you'll get much "fun")

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Yeah the aiming system is probably my biggest issue with TC. I am starting to get used to it however. I found that turning my mouse sensitivity down made it much more bearable and I was not having the erratic movement like the video above. 

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21 hours ago, Lofte said:

You probably aiming at full zoom (max size of sight net on your monitor). Reduce it in 2 times and try again. You will get something like this (see below).

I'm not swingig mouse left-reight-left or something as you can think lookibg at the video. I'm just trying turn my turret to the left as fast as I can! And what I get - my yellow pointer (vector) just haoticly turning around with huge step. My turret is out of control! I can't even stop it there where it is at the moment - it doesn't stop until reach yellow pointer!
While I fight the turret, my enemy kills me with pleasure...(

 

 

And the most interesting thing is that I wrote about this in June, but then no one supported me.
Although he wrote about this as a bug. But it was not always. Then the developers specifically introduced such a system to all tanks. That was the official answer.

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I see now know yeah it's  a pain in the ass when doe that but it I wouldn't say it's game brake just a inconvenience doe it happen when the Hud's off and if any one whats information about how the sights work on KV 1/T34 just let me know.

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This mouse-going-crazy thing, it's simplest form is when the sight literally starts to behave erratically yes? I've been experiencing this issue, in fact it stood out prominently seeing as I just bought the game an hour ago. 

 

Is it possible it's a bug? Maybe tied to simulation rate? I only ever notice it when there are sudden slow-downs and it takes a while to revert back. Most noticeable too is the delay in firing when it happens (assuming I've wrestled the gun enough that I can lay it properly). 

 

Curious things these are. Hope TC gets to cook a bit more in the oven. 

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So it seems the mouse cursor, even though invisible and represented only by this small yellow line on the left-bottom corner compas, is still able to point anywhere in whole 360 degrees sphere around your tank.

1st factor making aiming really poor is that gun always tries to follow this invisible cursor

2nd factor is the cursor can go outside of view boundaries and point direcly up in the air or straight down into the ground or virtually anywhere within 360deg sphere 

3rd factor is a wonky mouse acceleration/input/sensitivity settings dependant on zoom level and constantly producing some strange artifacts like with only small movement, the yellow line on compas jumps like crazy to the back, or either side, sometimes completely opposite to your physical movement.

 

So many times the gun is facing full way into the ground and I have to move mouse 3-4 times up using the whole length of the mousepad to make the gun move up. It is because the invisible cursor is pointing directly (-90 degrees from level) downwards into the ground. What is the reason behind such an implementation? I don't find it realistic or simulating anything.

IMO the implementation of cursor and gun following it in the first place is a bad decision. This is exactly the same system as in War Thunder for example, the indirect mouse - turret connection, where gun constantly follows your aim. The only difference is in TC the cursor is invisible and can get out of the view boundaries which creates all the additional confusion and control issues.

 

My preffered fix, direct input:

Why the turret movement cannot be directly connected to mouse movement, without invisible cursor?  This would only represent the manual fine-aiming. The acceleration of the gunsight would be mapped proportionally to acceleration of the mouse and dampened by traverse speed limit and obviously inertia of the turret itself. Moving mouse up/down, moves elevation crank wheel, moving mouse left/right moves the traverse crank wheel - as simple as that. Then we simply need 2 (if powered system supported only traverse) or 4 (if powered system supported both traverse and elevation) controls which can be mapped either to buttons, or analog axis for fast powered turret traverse system.

 

Fixing curent system:

If current non-direct system with invisible cursor has to stay, then at least make it so the cursor cannot move past gun elevation and traverse limits. I mean what is the point of having it pointing 90 degrees up when gun cannot follow that and then you have to move mouse several times to bring the invisible coursor back within the gun elevation limits. What does this simulate?

When we get the first turretless tank destroyer and this invisible cursor starts to point directly backwards or whatever angle outside of gun traverse/elevation limits this will get even more annoying.

 

Alternative, mouse joy:

War Thunder has really good example of implementation of mouse joystick with boundaries and dead zone in the middle. The idea is whenever the mouse cursor goes outside of deadzone circle in the middle, the gun moves into this direction with speed proportional to how far the mouse cursor is from the center. The mouse cursor cannot go outside of view boundaries and the system works in a way simulating joystick input. I personally think the joystick system suits better modern tanks though rather than WWII ones.

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I'll add to the post above, just a smidge in case it hasn't been mentioned: 

 

Let us, as Tank Commander and in the Position, have an option to command the Gunner's traverse with keybinds. I'm sure calling out "Gunner left" or "Gunner right" without having to go through the trouble of back-and-forth switching from the Gunner position to the TC would be useful.

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The more I use it, the worse it gets. I can manage if my targets are far (and use full zoom), but if you are in hurry, fighting short range knife-fight unless you are VERY careful, it just wobbles around like John Holmes's... barrel. Very irritating. HARDLY realistic. JoyToKey is probably the only option to sort that mess out.

 

I've tried to sell TC to my buddies, but they've given up because of this after trying and getting frustrated this gun control.

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I just randomly grabbed a Sherman and did a little test:

 

Fully zoomed in I moved the mouse from the center of my mouse pad to the right edge.  The turret traversed 31°.

Fully zoomed out I, again, moved the mouse from the center of the mouse pad to right edge.  The turret traversed 2009°.

 

That's a ratio of 1 to 65 (roughly).

 

That's really the issue, there is simply too much variation of mouse movement between the two extreme views.  And slowing one's mouse down significantly to deal with it hurts every other task the mouse is used for requiring constantly varying the mouse speed to match the current task.

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That you can zoom in gunsight is nonsense anyhow. They should make the view, like it is historically correct. This zooming is absolutely arcade. 

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1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

That you can zoom in gunsight is nonsense anyhow. They should make the view, like it is historically correct. This zooming is absolutely arcade. 

 

You misunderstand the purpose of zoom. It's there to make up for the lost visual acuity from using a monitor. Every view in the game provides zoom for this reason. Nobody is pretending that the sight itself is adjustable.

 

While a fixed FOV for the sight would be historically correct, its effectiveness wouldn't be realistic when hardware limitations are taken into account.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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1 hour ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

You misunderstand the purpose of zoom. It's there to make up for the lost visual acuity from using a monitor. Every view in the game provides zoom for this reason. Nobody is pretending that the sight itself is adjustable.

 

While a fixed FOV for the sight would be historically correct, its effectiveness wouldn't be realistic when hardware limitations are taken into account.

Sorry, but this is wrong. The gunsight is 2D like the picture on the monitor is. The effectiveness is absolutely not worse, than IRL. Did you ever use a gunsight with 2.5x magnification. Our SPz Marder had a gunsight with 2x and 6x magnification. What I see in game with the gunsight is not worse than 2x magnification of this gunsight. The zooming around in gunsight is only for making the playing more easy, zoomed out with larger FOV for faster looking around, and zooming in for better shooting. This is purely arcade.

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7 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Sorry, but this is wrong. The gunsight is 2D like the picture on the monitor is. The effectiveness is absolutely not worse, than IRL.

 

No, I'm not talking about 2D vs 3D. Due to the limited size and resolution of display devices, we cannot simultaneously show the full visual field of our eyes and preserve all the details that we would realistically see. We therefore have zoom to recreate the full capability of our vision. Zoomed out we get a reasonable field of view, while zoomed in we get something closer to the full acuity.

 

Imagine taking your whole vision in the Marder sight and projecting it on a monitor some distance away. Do you think you would still see distant targets as clearly?

 

The following images show a Sturmgeschütz seen through the Sherman's telescope at a range of 1 km on a 1920 x 1080 display with and without zoom.

S1_1.png.fc414734a848394c8a7241a41b27f615.pngS2_2.png.9b8ad23c636a09b3cc0e7e66463b74db.png

 

Without zoom, it is a handful of pixels not easily distinguishable as a vehicle. Of course, that's not realistic at this range; we should be able to identify a tank-sized target quite well. Therefore, we need aid in the form of zoom to achieve a somewhat realistic vision ability.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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Ok, then how about playing on 50" TV, the fully zoomed gunsight fills the whole screen. What I am looking at is a 60cm diameter telescopic sight. How does that compare to looking through telescope with one eye in real tank?

 

Zooming in cockpit view in order to render cockpit in realistic size is okay with me, but tank gunsight zoom where irl sight had fixed magnification is not a good option IMO.

The fixed magnification gunsight should be fixed in game.

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1 hour ago, Sputnik77 said:

The fixed magnification gunsight should be fixed in game.

 

As an option hopefully. For some folks who need assistance at least. 

 

I shudder to think the devs would want to lock people out of assistance for the sake of realism over gameplay. 

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12 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Zoomed out we get a reasonable field of view,

which has nothing to do with how it looked IRL. This is my point. The gunner simply was not able to see that much of the terrain. Looking around is mainly the task of the commander, which is the reason why we absolutely need binoculars. I can't say how far you would have to zoom in to have the correct view in the Sherman, T-34, and KV-1, but according to the german tanks, it should be around two third zooming in. This also makes the turret better controllable.

But I understand, that there always are players, who don't care about, how it was IRL, when this would make the gameplay experience worse. And I only can hope, the Devs will find a middle way between simulation and arcade game, which makes the game enjoyable for me again.

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15 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

No, I'm not talking about 2D vs 3D. Due to the limited size and resolution of display devices, we cannot simultaneously show the full visual field of our eyes and preserve all the details that we would realistically see. We therefore have zoom to recreate the full capability of our vision. Zoomed out we get a reasonable field of view, while zoomed in we get something closer to the full acuity.

 

Imagine taking your whole vision in the Marder sight and projecting it on a monitor some distance away. Do you think you would still see distant targets as clearly?

 

The following images show a Sturmgeschütz seen through the Sherman's telescope at a range of 1 km on a 1920 x 1080 display with and without zoom.

S1_1.png.fc414734a848394c8a7241a41b27f615.pngS2_2.png.9b8ad23c636a09b3cc0e7e66463b74db.png

 

Without zoom, it is a handful of pixels not easily distinguishable as a vehicle. Of course, that's not realistic at this range; we should be able to identify a tank-sized target quite well. Therefore, we need aid in the form of zoom to achieve a somewhat realistic vision ability.

Well the Early Sherman's sight as we have is meant to be terrible.

I don't think any tank sim has this variable zoom malarchy, even War Blunder uses 2 seperate zoom settings.

Edited by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

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9 hours ago, Sputnik77 said:

Ok, then how about playing on 50" TV, the fully zoomed gunsight fills the whole screen. What I am looking at is a 60cm diameter telescopic sight. How does that compare to looking through telescope with one eye in real tank?

 

Developers can't detect the size of your TV or design a game solely for large 4K televisions. 1080p monitors <= 27" are by far the most common display device, so that is what developers target.

 

4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

which has nothing to do with how it looked IRL. This is my point. The gunner simply was not able to see that much of the terrain.

 

Are you saying that we should have more area obscured by the black overlay? I don't know exactly what field of view is correct for the M3 telescope, but this would keep a correct visual field for the gunner's eyes.

2019_11_15__1_57_50.thumb.png.dec2c24295c63db6ead6a6fe28867412.png

Alternatively, do you want the view zoomed in so only the transparent sight area is visible? The latter option would require an unrealistically small visual field for the gunner's eyes. At that point, why not just make it adjustable?

 

4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

But I understand, that there always are players, who don't care about, how it was IRL, when this would make the gameplay experience worse. And I only can hope, the Devs will find a middle way between simulation and arcade game, which makes the game enjoyable for me again.

 

I would never want arcade. I just want both a realistic visual field and a realistic acuity for identifying targets. Currently that's only possible with zoom.

 

1 hour ago, =362nd_FS=RoflSeal said:

Well the Early Sherman's sight as we have is meant to be terrible.

 

Yes, but every tank in the game is modeled similarly and has similar limitations related to visual field and acuity. Had I shown images from any other tank, the target still wouldn't be identifiable without zoom.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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1 hour ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

Developers can't detect the size of your TV or design a game solely for large 4K televisions. 1080p monitors <= 27" are by far the most common display device, so that is what developers target.

 

 

Are you saying that we should have more area obscured by the black overlay? I don't know exactly what field of view is correct for the M3 telescope, but this would keep a correct visual field for the gunner's eyes.

2019_11_15__1_57_50.thumb.png.dec2c24295c63db6ead6a6fe28867412.png

Alternatively, do you want the view zoomed in so only the transparent sight area is visible? The latter option would require an unrealistically small visual field for the gunner's eyes. At that point, why not just make it adjustable?

 

 

I would never want arcade. I just want both a realistic visual field and a realistic acuity for identifying targets. Currently that's only possible with zoom.

 

 

Yes, but every tank in the game is modeled similarly and has similar limitations related to visual field and acuity. Had I shown images from any other tank, the target still wouldn't be identifiable without zoom.

The M3 and M4 periscope had 1x magnification, so just a range graticule. the M4A1 periscope had 1.44x magnification.

As said, the early Shermans sights are aweful.

Edited by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

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1 hour ago, =362nd_FS=RoflSeal said:

The M3 and M4 periscope had 1x magnification, so just a range graticule. the M4A1 periscope had 1.44x magnification.

As said, the early Shermans sights are aweful.

 

Yes, I’m aware of that. However, people can identify tanks at a range of 1 km with the naked eye. No magnification is necessary. In game, that’s impossible without zoom; all you get is a tiny blob of 20 pixels on a 1080p monitor.

 

Even with the Tiger's excellent magnified optic, the view without zoom is far worse than what I'd actually see.

T1.png.9124b0c130f004741c3befaa0f324485.png

 

If you project a person’s full visual field onto a display with limited size and resolution, you’ll always lose some detail unless you allow zoom. That is my only argument.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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Good news for those who have said "NO")

 

"We're also starting the work on two other important things for the tanks (they won't be ready for the next update though) - improving the gun aiming (fixing the problem when the rotation marker 'jumps' too far) and adding the binoculars for tank commanders. "

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2 hours ago, Lofte said:

Good news for those who have said "NO")

 

"We're also starting the work on two other important things for the tanks (they won't be ready for the next update though) - improving the gun aiming (fixing the problem when the rotation marker 'jumps' too far) and adding the binoculars for tank commanders. "

 

Solution can be a lot simpler - to allow moving the turret using keys instead of mouse.

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1 hour ago, Bies said:

Solution can be a lot simpler - to allow moving the turret using keys instead of mouse.

That would be a bad solution. With keys you can do only 2 actions - "1" (move) and "0" (don't move). But almost all WWII tanks had traversing speed control system one way or another. They weren't just 1-0 binary systems.

Edited by Lofte

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19 minutes ago, Lofte said:

That would be a bad solution. With keys you can do only 2 actions - "1" (move) and "0" (don't move). But almost all WWII tanks had traversing speed control system one way or another. They weren't just 1-0 binary systems.

Yes, joystick or other not 0/1 controler (i.e. encoder) would be better but mouse could be possibly the worst to directly control the turret, as it is right now, because it's hard to stop the rotation finding idle position.

Maybe after the rework this is going to work a lot better, they know what they are doing, they will test some ideas and find some solution i believe.

Edited by Bies

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@Mitthrawnuruodo, to see, how I want the zoom for the tank gunsights, take one of the german tanks and zoom the gunsight in so far, that the reverse triangle on top touches the top of your screen. This is how it looked in real life. It should be around two third zoomed in, more or less. I don't know exactly how the russian and the Sherman gunsight view was, but I would assume, it should be similar to the german gunsight, when talking about the zoom.

Another thing, often mentioned, when talking about zoom, to make large and small screens comparable. But this does not work, because you can not only zoom on small screens, but on the large screens, too. And you don't even have to make them comparable by zoom, they get comparable by the distance of the player to the screeen and the resolution. I play on a 42" TV screen with HDTV resolution, someone playing on a 27" monitor with 4K resolution clearly is in advantage over me, because he usually will sit about half a meter away from his screen, usually standing on the table, he has his keyboards and mouse on. I am sitting about 1.5- 2m away from my TV. Some weeks ago I was in another town in a guesthouse, I played TC on a 17" notebook. This is doable, too, because you are sitting nearer. There simply is no need to zoom in and out in the gunsight. Make it with the magnification, the real gunsight had, and everything is fine. The bombsights of bombers don't have zooming either, and noone cares.

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I am against unrealistic zoom levels and ability to zoom, no matter if human eye in reality has a resolution which probably wont be achieved by any PC screen in next 20 years.

The unbuttoned commander view should be set static, non zoomable and this should be reference 1x zoom.

The gunsights should then be adjusted so they magnify this reference picture by realistic historical levels and restricting FOV to historical levels as well.

As simple as that.

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1 hour ago, Sputnik77 said:

I am against unrealistic zoom levels and ability to zoom, no matter if human eye in reality has a resolution which probably wont be achieved by any PC screen in next 20 years.

The unbuttoned commander view should be set static, non zoomable and this should be reference 1x zoom.

The gunsights should then be adjusted so they magnify this reference picture by realistic historical levels and restricting FOV to historical levels as well.

As simple as that.

Absolutely agreed, zooming around is arcade gaming and has nothing to do with simulation. Ask pilots training in a flight simulator, if they can zoom in and out, because the screen of the simulator can't simulate the resolution of their eyes.

The question we have to ask ourselves is, do we want to play a simulation or an arcade shooter, that is optimized for gameplay. Where do you want to draw the line to Warthunder and other similar games?

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14 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

The question we have to ask ourselves is, do we want to play a simulation or an arcade shooter, that is optimized for gameplay. Where do you want to draw the line to Warthunder and other similar games?

 

 

 

You're absolutely right in terms of how the optics should be. But at the same time @Mitthrawnuruodo also raises great points about hardware and personal/physical limitations. 

 

I want to try and understand your position on this. Would you rather have folks get an option for full simulation while keeping assists like zoom available for other people or would you rather have the Devs strictly enforce a one-experience-only approach, e.g. no zoom at all? Pardon, because I'm getting a lot of gate-keeping vibes from this. 

 

Personally I'd love to play under full-real conditions, but not at other folks expense. 

 

Just trying to get a handle on what you're trying to say.

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This has been beat to death many times.  The "Fully Zoomed In" view is actually supposed to be the "Normal Naked Eye" view.  The problem with this view is you have next to ZERO peripheral vision so a wide angle "Zoom Out" feature is given so one can have a more realistic spacial awareness.  Apparently, with a monitor you can't have both peripheral vision and see things at distance as well as in the real world.  The gunsight issue should be checked by seeing how well 1/3rd meter can be resolved at 1km (I ain't doin' that now - lol)

 

With both eyes people have about 210/220 degree field of view, the game is more like 150° (I haven't tried to measure it).  See Wide view.  But, the human eye can resolve ~1/3rd meter at 1000 meters.  I could only get as far away as 800 meters but the width (vertical) of the roadwheels on the fender are about 1/3rd meter so try and spot those on the narrow view. 

 

(For scaling purposes my name (chuter) should be 14mm wide if you want to see it as I do on my monitor 😃)

Panzer III Wide FOV.jpg

Panzer III Narrow FOV.jpg

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4 hours ago, MarderIV said:

Just trying to get a handle on what you're trying to say.

Agree absolutely. I'm not exactly sure what the intentions are.

 

The visual field of the average person is roughly 180° (first person games typically choose a comfortable 90° field of view).

 

The Tiger has 2.5x magnification with a 25° field of view.

 

Strictly preserving geometry, the sight view should look roughly like this:

full_real.thumb.png.ed2af971e2063e134c7a9274ccccb966.png

The black area represents the gunner's peripheral vision obscured by the optic. Of course, this limited vision just doesn't work in a game and most would find it unplayable.

 

Some are arguing that we should fill the screen with the sight's usable area and fix it there.

zoomed.thumb.png.aa34a75d475495172147f76b6ea3b252.png

However, this isn't particularly "realistic" in any sense; the gunner's view never actually looked like this.

 

Therefore, as @chuter is saying, we should have zoom to adjust between views similar to the two images I've shown, letting the player choose between a roughly realistic visual field and a roughly realistic acuity.

 

It is important to note that the Tiger in game has a field of view much larger than 25°. I am only looking at the Tiger because I don't have much information on the other vehicles.

 

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
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OK - Here's a fully zoomed gunsight view of a Panzer III at 800m to compare to my previous 800m zoomed image.  The Panzer here is exactly twice the size of the naked eye view (fully zoomed) image I previously posted.  Isn't the Russian gunsight supposed to be a 2.5x?  If so there's a little more zooming to do.  So the fully zoomed in images aren't far off from reality.  The trick now is to play the game exclusively zoomed in and NOT using that arcade zoomed out view.

 

Zoomed in view and then the zoomed out for comparison.  Remember, at 1000m we should be able to resolve to 1/3rd meter.  The tank near center is at 1.0 and the tank just to the left is at 0.8 for comparison to previous post.

 

T-34 Gunsight Zoomed In.jpg

T-34 Gunsight Zoomed Out.jpg

Edited by chuter

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6 hours ago, MarderIV said:

I want to try and understand your position on this. Would you rather have folks get an option for full simulation while keeping assists like zoom available for other people

EDIT: When we are talking about normal viewing, yes, exactly this. Like you have the possibility to choose, if you want to play with HUD or not. When I started playing the old IL-2, I also played with HUD and every help, the game gave me. So for beginners, and of course for people, who just want to have some fun, give them the help, they want. But if someone wants to play a real simulation, there should be no HUD or zooming around. In SP you can do this on your own, but for MP there should be the option for the server administrator. But in the gunsight, you do not need zooming around. You do not have it in the bombsights of the bombers.

FOV is an interesting thing. Theoretically you are right, we have about 180° FOV. so now my question, when you are playing on your screen, do you actively see thee room around your screen? I don't think  so. Our peripheral seeing is not good. We don't see colours, and we don't see precisely. It is mainly movements we see there. This seeing of movements is more or less everything we miss on the screen. So you have to look a bit more around. Such a big issue?

4 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Strictly preserving geometry, the sight view should look roughly like this:

full_real.thumb.png.ed2af971e2063e134c7a9274ccccb966.png

The black area represents the gunner's peripheral vision obscured by the optic. Of course, this limited vision just doesn't work in a game and most would find it unplayable.

 

Some are arguing that we should fill the screen with the sight's usable area and fix it there.

zoomed.thumb.png.aa34a75d475495172147f76b6ea3b252.png

However, this isn't particularly "realistic" in any sense; the gunner's view never actually looked like this.

TBH, no. It is more the lower one, because when you look through the gunsight, your eye will automatically focus, as you are looking for something, that could be important for you. Theoretically you could see the black around, but you don't. 

Edited by Yogiflight
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