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Axis late war fighters

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Neither K-6 or K-14 were completed as far as I know. The K-6 proto was tested IIRC at a weapons testing station, the K-14 was cancelled in December 1944, as it was a backup project for the Ta 152, in case the latter's development would fail which wasn't the case. In any case it would be a bit like the Ta 152, a full blown extreme high altitude fighter for the 10km region, but for normal altitudes, the K-4 series with the DB 605D would be more suited. 

 

Now the projected K-10 would be fun, as it's like the K-4 but with an MK 103 instead of the MK 108, but that wasn't built either.

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P47 had pretty high (higher) loading as well and did not handle like csap afaik. Besides that there were a number of GM1 109s for extreme high altitude work before and I haven’t seen anything to indicate they handled poorly.

 

Of course large aspect ratio wings are better to reduce drag the higher you go, though the Ta 152 was pretty extreme in this regard and had g load limitations imposed.

 

Its always a compromise of design.

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1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

Without an increase in wing-area (akin to the 109H), the K-14 would have handled like crap at hi altitudes.

Have heard that...it was like walking a tightrope.

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31 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

P47 had pretty high (higher) loading as well and did not handle like csap afaik. Besides that there were a number of GM1 109s for extreme high altitude work before and I haven’t seen anything to indicate they handled poorly.

 

The P-47 hadn't seen a doubling of gross-weight and a tripling of engine power by that time. The difference was that P-47s were designed to go hi alt from the get go and Griffon Spitfires did get a larger tail altogether, while 109 had to linger on with it's modified G-6 tail. Hi-alt flying is as much about lift as it is about stability. That's where the 109K-14 essentially loses out with it's uprated engine and another prop-blade (creating additional torque) to deal with.

 

Also, the GM-1 airplanes - at high altitudes - handled poorly, like all other specialized hi-alt aircraft without the necessary design-alterations did.

That is exactly why the Ta 152H and the 109H (including the various Me/ Bv 155-iterations and the other Mtt high-alt projects) hat stretched wings and, on the Ta 152H had lager tailfeathers (the vertical tail had already been enlarged, the horizontal tail was to be enlarged).

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So the Ta 152 H1 as a interceptor for the Me 262 A1b 

 

Edited by RAY-EU

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Not having dived into multiplayer myself yet, I'd expect part of the issue the blue team is having is that *all* the new shinies are on the Allies side. With the Tempest, Lightening and the Mustang people have just gotten there brand new fighters that are all very nice planes, to play with, and a lot of people want to play with all of them. Further, even the Spitfire IX just got some new toys to play with, 

 

Recall how unbalanced the blue teams got when the Bf-109K-4 and later the Fw-190D-9 got released? And those were single plane releases, not "Here, have a bucket of toys!" 

 

I'd expect things to be crazy for the next couple of months, then to start seeing many of the more experienced Luftwaffe pilots shift back to blue team and into the K-4 and Dora after they've tried out all the new Allied planes, and we'll see the teams get more balanced. 

 

Then of course, it will be time for the Yak-9 and Hurricane release. 

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On 10/3/2019 at 10:47 AM, hrafnkolbrandr said:

You guys act like the russian aircraft never had any advantages and aren't winning 2 out of 3 of every map.

 

Whatever gives you your feels I guess.

 

Thank you it's so true

 

On 10/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, [_FLAPS_]Diggun said:

/as a team to complete objectives.

 

Gonna be even more of a headache for the LW now that we actually have decent bomb loads comparable with what they have available...

 

Excuse me? PE2 destroys TAW ...

 

On 10/3/2019 at 11:37 AM, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

The only superior russian aircraft at this time is the La-5FN. That one is hands down a winner. For every other fighter matchups, the only edge the russian aircraft ever held is that of turning radius, but they've always been the weaker energy fighters... and in the hands of skilled pilots, energy is what counts.

 

So yes, on the eastern front the advantage has been held by the Luftwaffe, at least when it comes to air superiority (with the rare exception of late scenarios where the FN and the Spit IX are made available). When it comes to strike aircraft things are a lot more balanced, possibly with the russians having the advantage (though we never had anything that could drop anything above 500kg).

 

Remember, energy beats maneuverability, and a competent pilot with the superior energy fighter will know to always maintain the initiative. The only reason why the eastern front isn't dominated by the luftwaffe is because this is a tactical warfare simulator... and to win the 109s need to actually come down and take out some bombers (or bomb targets), thereby giving lesser fighters like the P40s and P39s an opportunity to come in with an energy advantage of their own (but unlike the 109 they really get 1 or 2 tries... if they miss their bounce and squander their initial energy advantage, a good 109/190 pilot will be able to use their better energy capabilities to get away or turn the fight around).

 

This makes no sense .... P40s and P39s are obviously not the best aircraft, but you throw some Yaks in there it's doing fine. Comparing the P40 or the P39 is like comparing the Folgore to the Yak1b ??

 

 

On 10/3/2019 at 12:04 PM, JonRedcorn said:

I can't tell you how pleased it makes me to see Luftwaffe only fliers crying about fairness. For all I care I hope the teams never balance out and they face the team stacking we had to endure for so long. 

 

LOL, like the domination of reds on TAW ....

 

 

On 10/3/2019 at 12:05 PM, III./JG7-MarkWilhelmsson said:

For servers planning on placing severe restrictions on the number of 262s, I think you have it backwards. There should be very few K4s actually (some 109 units only had two or three K4s and the rest were G14s or G6 with MW50 mod). The 262 was MUCH more prevalent than the K4. There were several days when JG7 got 30+ jets in the air at once. There should be 3x more 262s on an historically appropriate map than K4s. 

 

I also hope the teams stay stacked for allies. I enjoy a struggle and it really proves who the better pilots are. 

 

Interesting.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 12:10 PM, hrafnkolbrandr said:

Yes yes, ballad of the poor oppressed VVS.  😄

 

lol I know

 

On 10/3/2019 at 12:37 PM, =KG76=flyus747 said:

That's because of that thingy they have called the Pe2. Legendary in speed, agility, armor, defenses. The Blues? A huge slow 111 that's got laughable defense and the 88 which is just as weak, but faster. You can see why reds love their bombers.

 

THIS is the big problem ...

 

 

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1 minute ago, II./JG77_Myn said:

PE2 destroys TAW

Yes, despite, rather than because of, its pitiful bombload. More due to the aforementioned teamwork etc. 

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One thing I do wonder is if the increases view range will enable bombing opera at higher altitude to be effective? 

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5 hours ago, [_FLAPS_]Diggun said:

Yes, despite, rather than because of, its pitiful bombload. More due to the aforementioned teamwork etc. 

 

You must be referring to the teamwork between the pilot and his AI gunner, because about 90% of the time you interdict a pe2 near a target, there isnt a single VVS fighter to be seen.

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5 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

 

You must be referring to the teamwork between the pilot and his AI gunner, because about 90% of the time you interdict a pe2 near a target, there isnt a single VVS fighter to be seen.

Have you ever played TAW for a significant amount of time (that is covering a whole campaign)?

Edited by -332FG-Garven

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1 hour ago, -332FG-Garven said:

Have you ever played TAW for a significant amount of time (that is covering a whole campaign)?

 

Sadly up until very recently 20 players online across all servers during my time zone was a good night.  Outside of the odd occasions where I was able to get on during the high times.  Hoping to try it properly (with other players) in the future if it has good numbers during my regular hours.

 

But I'm sure the VVS are just as whiny and oppressed there as they are everywhere else.  ;)

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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1 hour ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

But I'm sure the VVS are just as whiny and oppressed there as they are everywhere else.  ;)

Maybe you should set an example and not make sarcastic comments that minimizes one sides efforts to win a campaign and basically whine about the pe-2 gunner.

Edited by -332FG-Garven

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45 minutes ago, -332FG-Garven said:

Maybe you should set an example and not make sarcastic comments that minimizes one sides efforts to win a campaign and basically whine about the pe-2 gunner.

 

If you stop whining about aircraft performance and players choosing to fly aircraft that they happen to like, you've got a deal.

 

;)

 

These devs have given us 8 different 109s so far.  Some people are going to end up wanting to fly the mount they're most experienced/comfortable with.  There's a decent chance, on any given map, that will be a 109 of some sort.

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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3 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

If you stop whining about aircraft performance and players choosing to fly aircraft that they happen to like, you've got a deal.

 

;)

I'm far from perfect, but I'm not someone who habitually complains.  ;) ;);););)

Edited by -332FG-Garven

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On 10/20/2019 at 8:30 AM, II./JG77_Myn said:

 

This makes no sense .... P40s and P39s are obviously not the best aircraft, but you throw some Yaks in there it's doing fine. Comparing the P40 or the P39 is like comparing the Folgore to the Yak1b ??

 

I was using the P40 and P39 as an example of how a weaker fighter can beat better airplanes, by fighting with an E advantage. Re-read my post, please.

 

Secondly, all Yaks are inferior to their contemporary 109s/190s opponents. The only thing the Yaks do well at is sustained turns, but since they are outclassed where it matters (speed, climb, dive, basically anything in the vertical), the 109s/190s maintain the initiative and possess a decisive advantage. Energy is king, always.

 

As I wrote, red can still do well since this is a tactical simulator: eventually the 109s/190s need to come play on the deck to take out those pesky bombers (or defend their own bombers)... which is why even planes like the P40 and P39s can do quite well, despite being completely outclassed in every way.

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The only way that the yak advantage in sustained turn is irrelevent, is if all axis pilots stop trying to turn on the deck with them.  That hasn't happened yet, and isn't likely to ever happen; so while in theory that turn advantage is irrelevent- in actual practice, as evidenced on the servers every day- it is still a relevant advantage.

 

There is a saying in sports, specifically for people like many in this thread.  It addresses statistics and strengths on paper, as opposed to the real world- "That is why they still play the games."

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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10 minutes ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

The only way that the yak advantage in sustained turn is irrelevent, is if all axis pilots stop trying to turn on the deck with them.  That hasn't happened yet, and isn't likely to ever happen; so while in theory that turn advantage is irrelevent- in actual practice, as evidenced on the servers every day- it is still a relevant advantage.

 

Exactly 

I lost count of how many Corsairs I killed while flying the Zero, or how many 109F’s or 190’s while flying the i16 in 46.

 

What they should do and what they actually do in the moment “I can get away with it” are almost always two different things.

 

Drag em low into your fight and bag em.

 

 

 

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On 10/20/2019 at 6:30 AM, II./JG77_Myn said:

Excuse me? PE2 destroys TAW ...


Geez, enough already.  For every story or complaint about the Pe-2’s gunners being OP, I say the Ju-88, Bf-110, He-111 and at times even the Ju-87’s gunner(s) can be just as OP.  I’ve flown enough fighters who’s engines have been shredded (with the occasional PK) by the likes of all of those aircraft.  It’s a universal AI gunner accuracy issue across BoX aircraft of all nationalities.

 

The difference between a perfect bounce with minimal exposure to defensive guns and a dismal bounce where you are exposed just enough to get shredded can be a split second (or seconds) and/or just a few degrees (i.e. dive, climb) on the angle of attack of your aircraft vs the enemy and/or a few degrees on the clock position of the attack on the enemy aircraft (I.e. from it’s 12, 3, 6, 9, etc).  If you don’t get the bounce just right you will often get exposed to defensive fire and get hit, so you can’t just blame it on OP defensive guns.  We all have to take responsibility for how effective (or not) our bounce/attack profile is each time we make a pass :).

 

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If the P-40 would ever get updated engine limits to 5/15min WEP/Combat then it be a pretty competitive aircraft imo, currently it's hard to work with due to it's limited amount of power. Come in from a high speed dive and the P-40 can do some work, it also has a good instantaneous turn imo and can hang with early 109s in the turn.

Only reason I don't fly the P-40 is because of the engine timers and no WEP.

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Why should the P-40 E-1 be a pretty competitive aircraft? 

 

Later versions were  better but by all accounts it (E-1) just wasn't, 

 

When used (historically) at end of Moscow campaign not too bad but outclassed during Stalingrad 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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Didn't want to make a new topic about this, so "late war axis fighters" is close enough. 

 

When using the D9 in the QMB, I notice that the cowl flaps open almost immediately when in combat or emergency power. They open nearly all the way pretty quickly. My understanding  is that these systems are automatically managed, and I believe Requiem (or someone else's) videos mention that you can set the temp threshold for when they open. Does anyone have any more details on this or a "best practices" for this to maximize its performance?

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3 hours ago, Pre said:

Didn't want to make a new topic about this, so "late war axis fighters" is close enough. 

 

When using the D9 in the QMB, I notice that the cowl flaps open almost immediately when in combat or emergency power. They open nearly all the way pretty quickly. My understanding  is that these systems are automatically managed, and I believe Requiem (or someone else's) videos mention that you can set the temp threshold for when they open. Does anyone have any more details on this or a "best practices" for this to maximize its performance?

I want to say you need to adjust the temp threshold for different altitudes because of the way the liquid acts in the reduced pressure environment, though in this case I'm likely totally wrong (Given that the system is pressurized lol). I poked around in the manual for the *other* game and it noted that the setup was supposed to be tuned for about 100 degrees celsius and wasn't supposed to be changed.

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5 hours ago, Pre said:

Didn't want to make a new topic about this, so "late war axis fighters" is close enough. 

 

When using the D9 in the QMB, I notice that the cowl flaps open almost immediately when in combat or emergency power. They open nearly all the way pretty quickly. My understanding  is that these systems are automatically managed, and I believe Requiem (or someone else's) videos mention that you can set the temp threshold for when they open. Does anyone have any more details on this or a "best practices" for this to maximize its performance?

Taking into acount boiling temp at higer Alt, even on a somewhat presurized sistem might be part of the idea.

 

But at least I use the whater radiator control,wich basicaly sets the temperature that the automation will try to mantain, like this.

For normal flight, keep it between 1/2 or 1/3 open.

For a climb 1/2 

And for combat almost closed, between 10% to 20%

My idea being, keeping water and oil on the colder side of the range until in actual combat, and setting a low % when in combat, wich should make the automation let the temperature rise higer before opening the cowl flps.

 

This is how I understand the sistem, might be wrong though.

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On 10/21/2019 at 5:55 PM, AKA_Relent said:


Geez, enough already.  For every story or complaint about the Pe-2’s gunners being OP, I say the Ju-88, Bf-110, He-111 and at times even the Ju-87’s gunner(s) can be just as OP.  I’ve flown enough fighters who’s engines have been shredded (with the occasional PK) by the likes of all of those aircraft.  It’s a universal AI gunner accuracy issue across BoX aircraft of all nationalities.

 

The difference between a perfect bounce with minimal exposure to defensive guns and a dismal bounce where you are exposed just enough to get shredded can be a split second (or seconds) and/or just a few degrees (i.e. dive, climb) on the angle of attack of your aircraft vs the enemy and/or a few degrees on the clock position of the attack on the enemy aircraft (I.e. from it’s 12, 3, 6, 9, etc).  If you don’t get the bounce just right you will often get exposed to defensive fire and get hit, so you can’t just blame it on OP defensive guns.  We all have to take responsibility for how effective (or not) our bounce/attack profile is each time we make a pass :).

 

Seriously, this. You only have to fly as a pe-2 human gunner for one or two sorties to see how easy it is to get hits on most blue fighters, who then whine about OP AI gunners who shot them unrealistically in a high-G turn. But also to realize how slow, not durable, poor turning, and otherwise vulnerable the pe-2 is to any fighter.

 

And then fly a pe-2 yourself, and wait for your AI gunner to shoot down blue fighters....never.

 

And then fly red fighters vs. a 110 or a stuka, and guess what...take a lazy angle, you are just as dead.

Edited by 69th_Bazzer

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1 hour ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

And then fly a pe-2 yourself, and wait for your AI gunner to shoot down blue fighters....never.

 

You are probably joking? Take a look at some of the Pe-2 pilots' stats on WoL, for example, (a couple of examples here and here). If an AI gunner shoots down 90 enemy planes in 40 hours of flight time, like in the first example, you can hardly say that they never shoot down a blue fighter. Here a Pe-2 gunner shot down four fighters in 8 minutes of flight time. Near miss to becoming an "ace in a flight".

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Afaik in WoL they use ace AI setting which has nothing to do with reality as seen with those figures shot down by gunners. Bomber pilots like it for sure and that`s why it`s used there I guess. 

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1 hour ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

You only have to fly as a pe-2 human gunner for one or two sorties to see how easy it is to get hits on most blue fighters

 

Would also be interesting to see, if you have a reference to it?

Looking at your WoL, KOTA and Combat Box stats during the last several months, the only kills that you scored as a Pe-2 pilot (10 out of 11 air kills in July), were all done by your AI gunner. 

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Oh my god guys don't you know that all you need to do to avoid the Pe-2 gunner is attack from a high adverse angle on a full moon with a 32 bead reiki wand and sacrifice 3 chickens to moloch?  Blue players are so lazy and such noobs.

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54 minutes ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

Oh my god guys don't you know that all you need to do to avoid the Pe-2 gunner is attack from a high adverse angle on a full moon with a 32 bead reiki wand and sacrifice 3 chickens to moloch?  Blue players are so lazy and such noobs.

 

I think I would rather sacrifice every Blue player to Moloch who flies along behind a Pe-2 and then post videos whining about being hit. If Moloch gives me even one chicken in return that will be a fair trade. I would have a thriving poultry business by now. 

 

When will they get it into their thick skulls: they are not ubermensch. People with machine guns will fight back, even AI Slavs.  

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The new situation about balance have made me able to fly JU 88 snd heinkel a great deal. 
It is time you fighterpilots take a pill and chill. JU 88 is as capable to defend itself as pe 2. 
If you dont believe me for christ sake fly them. 
I will guarantee you sitting in a PE 2 will not at all feel safe. You get shot down everytime a enemy who knows what he is doing spot you. 
attacking a bomber alone was historically very risky business. Taking a risk means you might have to return with a hit on your engine

Edited by LuseKofte

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Yes it was, just don`t tell me that your average gunner repeatedly could hit a single engine fighter from ranges up to 170m.

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8 hours ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

Would also be interesting to see, if you have a reference to it?

Looking at your WoL, KOTA and Combat Box stats during the last several months, the only kills that you scored as a Pe-2 pilot (10 out of 11 air kills in July), were all done by your AI gunner. 

May be true, I honestly can't recall and I don't see that info in the stats page. If you are just going by 10 fighters shot down and assuming those were AI, that's bogus. At least some of those i am confident I was 'flying from the back seat' gunning and piloting at once, or gunning for someone else, or possibly got a front gun kill. But again, maybe I am wrong, if you see some more specific stats than I can.

17 minutes ago, Mac_Messer said:

Yes it was, just don`t tell me that your average gunner repeatedly could hit a single engine fighter from ranges up to 170m.

Just try 1 or 2 sorties as a pe-2 gunner. I'm not saying you'll blast every fighter around you, but yes hitting a single engine fighter at 170m is very doable even for a brand new gunner.

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6 minutes ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

At least some of those i am confident I was 'flying from the back seat' gunning and piloting at once, or gunning for someone else, or possibly got a front gun kill. But again, maybe I am wrong, if you see some more specific stats than I can.

 

Yes, you can look at the sortie log and see there, who did how much damage and when. When looking at your log, it did not register you doing any damage to enemies, and when clicking on the names that damaged you, can see from their logs that they were damaged and shot down by AI Pe-2 turret.

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14 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

Yes, you can look at the sortie log and see there, who did how much damage and when. When looking at your log, it did not register you doing any damage to enemies, and when clicking on the names that damaged you, can see from their logs that they were damaged and shot down by AI Pe-2 turret.

Fair enough, thanks. Pe-2 gunner bagged 10 to my 45 deaths. Don't think anyone could call that OP.

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1 hour ago, 69th_Bazzer said:

Fair enough, thanks. Pe-2 gunner bagged 10 to my 45 deaths. Don't think anyone could call that OP.

 

To be more precise, you were shot down in Pe-2 15 times, while your AI gunner shot down 10 enemy fighters. When flying other planes, you were shot down 30 times, while you shot down one enemy plane, He-111.

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8 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

To be more precise, you were shot down in Pe-2 15 times, while your AI gunner shot down 10 enemy fighters. When flying other planes, you were shot down 30 times, while you shot down one enemy plane, He-111.

Thankyou for carefully and meticulously clarifying my flying ineptitude. 

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On 10/21/2019 at 4:04 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

Exactly 

I lost count of how many Corsairs I killed while flying the Zero, or how many 109F’s or 190’s while flying the i16 in 46.

 

What they should do and what they actually do in the moment “I can get away with it” are almost always two different things.

 

Drag em low into your fight and bag em.

 

 

 

This is exactly what is going to happen in multiplayer when pacific comes out. In theory, hellcats and corsairs should make mince meat out of zeros and ki43s, but what will actually happen is alot of hellcats trying to out turn a zero.

 

 

 

To OP-There arent any more axis planes to add, especially considering that the entire axis team is flying around in essentially fictional 1.98ata 109K4s already. What should happen is the allies get P-47M.

Edited by YIPPEE

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33 minutes ago, YIPPEE said:

entire axis team is flying around in essentially fictional 1.98ata 109K4s

Not fictional and they are usually quite limited and gone after the 1st hour on the map. 

There are plenty of axis planes left to add for various theaters.  The axis is more than just germany too you know, even still, there are more aircraft in their stable too I would love to see. 

 

 

Your 47m is relatively as fictional as ta152s although I would enjoy both

Edited by Hajo_Garlic
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