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C'mon guys - tell me about that P51d !!!


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1 hour ago, DSR_T-888 said:


okay

P-51 won ww2.

There is always one.....

P 51 saved a lot of aircrews, it strengthened allied airpower in a time Luftwaffe no longer had air superiority.  It made daytime bombing sustainable. But the war was already lost for Germany before it entered the scene. 

It was vital against Japan, but go elsewhwere with your fairytale. 

I sure looks forward to coming home trying this update

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32 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

There is always one.....

P 51 saved a lot of aircrews, it strengthened allied airpower in a time Luftwaffe no longer had air superiority.  It made daytime bombing sustainable. But the war was already lost for Germany before it entered the scene. 

It was vital against Japan, but go elsewhwere with your fairytale. 

I sure looks forward to coming home trying this update

Based on your view that the P-51 was just doing mop up duties in the ETO, how can you possibly say it was vital in the airwar against Japan? Japan lost the war for all intents and purposes when it lost the Battle of Midway.

Edited by Rjel
war, not was
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1 hour ago, DSR_T-888 said:


okay

P-51 won ww2.

A single plane type among many cannot be said to have won an entire war. This is not the movies - there is no single hero that saves the day from everyone. A million factors decided the outcome of the war. 

That said, if we count actual impact on the war, the P-51 probably had a greater impact than the P-38, and certainly the Tempest.
 

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1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

First MP kill using P-51, a 262.  I'm sold on it.

 

That 262 needs to get its pilot licence revoked unless it was af strafe. 

 

I got to fly one full map in 262 and the thing is night untouchable as long as you are even remotely awake and dont let your speed fall below 700.

 

8 easiest kills ever.  (tho the gyro sight is less than useful because closing speeds are too fast for it to adjust in time)

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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I thought the engine sound was terrible.  I would have never known it was a Merlin.  Much worse than the Spitfire.

 

Also, the plane doesn't feel like it has a laminar wing,  I have never flown one, but I think the DCS model is closer to the truth.

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Laminar flow wing is biggest meme there is. 

 

How you can have laminar flow when you have rivets in that thing?  Theres bound to be boundary layer turbulence and other effects caused by imperfections. 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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22 minutes ago, TWC_SLAG said:

Also, the plane doesn't feel like it has a laminar wing...

 

It didn't. It had an airfoil designed for laminar flow, but subsequent research indicated that such laminar flow wasn't actually achieved over a significant part of the wing.  I'm not sure what a laminar flow wing is supposed to 'feel like' anyway, beyond having the fairly nasty stall characteristics that the sim seems to have replicated reasonably well.

 

https://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/XP-51_Mustang#Development_of_the_Laminar_Flow_Airfoil

https://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/perfect-airplane-wing-180971225/

http://wp1113056.server-he.de/ABL/20-forschung/laminarfluegel/laminarfluegel_en.htm

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On my first Mustang sortie online, I began by successfully placing 2x 1000lb gifts in the hangers of an enemy airfield, then went on patrol. After a half hour alone, I bounced a 262 after it made a low pass on our factory and scored hits on a fuel tank and an engine, but had to disengage after picking up another 262. The P-51 with 150 octane can keep up for quite awhile if you start with an altitude advantage.

 

After regaining altitude, I spied another 262 cruising alone several thousand feet below; he didn’t see me and perhaps wasn’t watching since he was going over 700kmh, but I was going 450-plus mph :) ; three seconds with the .50s at convergence and he blew up, with one wing pinwheeling with its still-running engine.

 

Checked my fuel and I was down to 15 gallons in the wings; RTB with a score of 140 after 1 hr and 7 minutes of fun. 😄

 

 

Edited by kurtj
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12 hours ago, Rjel said:

Based on your view that the P-51 was just doing mop up duties in the ETO, how can you possibly say it was vital in the airwar against Japan? Japan lost the war for all intents and purposes when it lost the Battle of Midway.

It was vital for escort , saving lives. It was not vital for the outcome of war. 

Your opinion on what I said is yours I just corrected the ever returning claim that P 51 won the war. It is utter bullshit and disrespectful. 

But it do not change the fact of its importance.  That design was truly a needed one

Edited by LuseKofte
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4 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

It was vital for escort , saving lives. It was not vital for the outcome of war. 

That's a pretty simplistic viewpoint. Beyond destroying thousands of German A/C in the air and on the ground, reaching them where no other Allied fighter could go in 1944, it met a Luftwaffe that hadn't yet been decimated when it was first introduced in December '43. The Mustang was a big part of that decimation. If it's value was as an escort saving lives as you say, then it must have had a vital influence on the airwar, otherwise the bomber offensive would have stalled. I think most historians agree on that.

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1 hour ago, Rjel said:

That's a pretty simplistic viewpoint. Beyond destroying thousands of German A/C in the air and on the ground, reaching them where no other Allied fighter could go in 1944, it met a Luftwaffe that hadn't yet been decimated when it was first introduced in December '43. The Mustang was a big part of that decimation. If it's value was as an escort saving lives as you say, then it must have had a vital influence on the airwar, otherwise the bomber offensive would have stalled. I think most historians agree on that.

Basically what I said but I did not want to spam theis topic of facts all known to us

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3 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

Basically what I said but I did not want to spam theis topic of facts all known to us

Re-reading your comment, what I wrote then was almost verbatim. Uncanny. 🤨

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5 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

How about 4 kills in 6 minutes on Combat Box the other night? http://combatbox.net/en/sortie/log/97919/?tour=14

 

What a beast!

Well done!

 

And yes, the Mustang CAN take out a 262. You need altitude and surprise. Obviously it's a lot harder than bouncing anything else, and the 262 has a massive advantage in general (if it didn't, we wouldn't have switched to jets in the first place!), but it's doable. Even the space force can get bounced. :)

 

Beyond that, the Pony is definitely a good fighter. Yesterday in my one real mustang flight I dove into a swarm of fighters attacking a target, shot down 2 190s (a Dora and an A5) took hits from a Dora, and booked it for home and made there safely, outdistancing the Dora at full buster (at least my Pony was). It was a good flight. :)

 

After flying the P38 most of the time, getting in the Pony is like putting on a suit: it's so light and small and responsive that you're wearing the aircraft. I can see why many pilots instantly fell in love with it, especially when switching over form the Thunderbolt.

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23 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Laminar flow wing is biggest meme there is. 

 

How you can have laminar flow when you have rivets in that thing?  Theres bound to be boundary layer turbulence and other effects caused by imperfections. 

Are you, then, agreeing that the engine sound is terrible, and the DCS Mustang is more accurate?  You didn’t mention them, so....

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6 minutes ago, TWC_SLAG said:

Are you, then, agreeing that the engine sound is terrible, and the DCS Mustang is more accurate?  You didn’t mention them, so....

 

I dont know, i fly with game sound turned down so i can listen to...

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

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Before this turns into a history flame-war, I'm interested in getting some opinions on flying AGAINST these birds. Usually I'm an allied flyer, but I'm taking the opportunity to practice my D9 flying in such allied target rich environments and I find them really rather frustrating, even with entering the battle with a significant advantage, the P51 seems to have no problem at all getting behind me. One guy tonight actually saw me diving on him, flipped over on his back and just shot me in the face, which I found equally hilarious, and annoying.

 

I've tried using the FW roll to my advantage but I seem to not be able to roll hard enough anymore with the G system to outroll the P51; I'm constantly falling unconscious. I've looked up some popular youtube "ace in a day" channels to see if perhaps I'm completely approaching the D9 wrong (i've been gone for months) and they're almost entirely bounces where the opposing pilot was simply unaware so not entirely helpful. 

 

How do you guys find the weaknesses of these planes particularly the P51? I think the P38 is amazing also, but it's so large, I don't think it'll be quite as problematic for blue team as the P51 and Tempest.  

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Ok, after spending a good handful hours in the P-51, I'm definitely warming more and more to it. It is certainly extremely capable and, once you get to know it, fairly pleasant to fly - the slow roll rate is still an issue for me, but I can work around it. It's just that it is not immediately appealing the way the P-38 and Tempest are. It is solid all around, easy to work with, but nothing really stands out. On the other hand, I also have a hard time pointing out serious weaknesses, off the top of my head I can only really think of the roll rate and the sharp stall, otherwise it is just good. 

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8 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

so i can listen to...

/thread drift 

 

I always found that song strangely produced for the Prodigy; like, the Spitfire sample they've used is hugely underwhelming. You'd have thought they'd really crank it and blow you're ears out through your nose as if the damn thing was parting your hair, but instead it's a much more gentle 'woosh'.....

 

 

/thread drift.

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On 10/4/2019 at 2:46 AM, TWC_SLAG said:

Are you, then, agreeing that the engine sound is terrible, and the DCS Mustang is more accurate?  You didn’t mention them, so....

 

FYI unless I am mistaken, DCS P-51 sounds are being re-recorded (this year's Duxford Flying Legends), Yo-Yo said so himself. To me, they sound awfully artificial and lack the distinctive "Merlin pops". IL-2 GB has done a much better job with the details that stand out.

 

OTOH while I find the cockpit sounds spot on, the externals are meh and too quiet for me. Then again, I am spending most of the time in the cockpit... Better they have done these right.

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I thought the American planes had automatic mixture? 

I haven't seen a P-51 or P-47 hadn't had a long black smoke trail behind it. To counter this in other allied aircraft you lower the mixture but with the P-51, it's always there all the way down to idle cutoff.

 

It's really annoying especially when it doesn't seem to happen with German aircraft, who also have automatic mixture.

Edited by Y-29.Silky
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1 hour ago, Y-29.Silky said:

I thought the American planes had automatic mixture? 

 

Mixture control is automatic when it is set to Auto Rich. All of the other settings are either for emergencies or for engine startup.

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On 10/8/2019 at 6:40 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Mixture control is automatic when it is set to Auto Rich. All of the other settings are either for emergencies or for engine startup.

 

But the American planes are still spewing that black smoke with auto-rich while in combat mode, it's utterly annoying, they didn't do that in real life. The black smoke from the engine mixture is almost as if the engine is damaged.

Edited by Y-29.Silky
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I have only flown this with 50% fuel twice. And even that was carrying  too much. 

To me it seems having no problem diving turning or anything. 

It is in my point of view very easy to fly. I havent done aerobatics with it. I guess it is there it will show its personality 

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