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[DBS]Browning

On the new visibility system

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2 hours ago, Archie said:

Well, I guess if the devs don't have the time to do it at the moment it is purely down to the server admins to put the info in the description. It's not as if there's hundreds of servers to trawl through, and if the people running a server like a particular setting there's not much people who don't like that setting can do about it.
I flew online since the 'early '46 days, and always with the 'harder' (not necessarily more real) game settings, as that is what the online wars were using, I've done the 'elite' stuff but these days I can't be bothered but people will vote with their feet, and a server that has the settings and missions people want will get the numbers.
So my original point stands, if the current server admins like the new settings then people are just going to have to start their own server and set it up the way they prefer.

 

You might as well just stow it with your "Elitism" and class warfare crap, because I guarantee you that you aren't making anyone feel ashamed of their stance on the issue.  Get real.  Some of us consider ourselves "Flight Simmers", meaning we prefer a system that represents to the best extent possible what one would see in the real world.  We want the best interpretation possible to mimic one of the fundamental real-world challenges in air combat of all eras:  Being able to see the enemy and maintain situational awareness.  We aren't interested in gamey, visual aids that overly simplify this fundamental task in a way not too disimilar from having Icons.   I think most of us recognize that because a smallish 2D screen creates some unique limitations complicating the task of simulating reality, some artificial enhancement may be welcome to compensate, but it is a matter of degree, and the current "Alternate" vision system appears to be way, way out there, pressing the bounds of credulity.  I don't think anyone wants things to be artifically difficult, but some of us don't believe that the solution to that is to go completely in the opposite direction and embrace "Easy Mode" spotting.

Edited by SeaSerpent
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Just did a test with alt vis on and off (will do a similar explanation of my settings than that of hrafnkolbrandr up there)

Ultra

1920x1080
Max shadows

Complex mirrors

blurred landscape

150km draw distance
high grass

High clouds

60 fps target

Dynamic res factor Full

Antialias 4

Gamma 0.8
 

Fullscreen

Vsync

No sharpen

4k text

the test was made on a B25, big plane so I could keep up with it a longer distances.
With it on I could see him pretty well from 10km, that's fine. Could see it from 20km up to 30km but he was actually reallty big specially when it turned.
With it off I could also see him pretty well from 10km, and could see it up to 25+km although he was really small and the moment I looked away to change position I lost it which is fairly accurate representation I guess. I don't know how that would fare in a combat situation but I don't know where did people started saying that Alt Vis off reverts spotting back to pre-bodenplatte spotting. It most certainly does not.

Edited by SCG_Faerber
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I tested the different visibility options at 4K and at 1080p.

 

Alternate Visibility checked

4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

1080p - Dots were visible across almost the entire map (Rhineland).  In fact from around 10K to much further distances the "dots" were identical in size.

 

Alternative Visibility OFF (Unchecked)

4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Much the same as with ON as above

1080p - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

 

  • If you want a level playing field that is similar regardless of resolution, then stick with Alt Vis OFF.
  • If you play with a 4K screen on a server that has Alt Vis checked, then lower your resolution or they will see you long before you see them.

 

I suspect anyone stating dots were too visible are playing at 1080p.

Edited by ICDP
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Combat Box has been running Alternate spotting for a few days now, yet the forums and our Discord channel contain quite a few posts singling us out as running "expert" spotting. The same is true for KOTA who have done the same. Just goes to show that the difference is not as large as people would have you believe with Alternate enabled!

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1 minute ago, ICDP said:

I tested the different visibility options at 4K and at 1080p.

 

Alternate Visibility checked

4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

1080p - Dots were visible across the entire map (Rhineland).  In fact from around 10K to much further distances the "dots" were identical in size.

 

It looks like resolution is a big factor.

What about with Alt Vis unchecked?

1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

Combat Box has been running Alternate spotting for a few days now, yet the forums and our Discord channel contain quite a few posts singling us out as running "expert" spotting. The same is true for KOTA who have done the same. Just goes to show that the difference is not as large as people would have you believe with Alternate enabled!

It's a mess, devs should have just allowed for one spotting system and thats it. Having 2 fractures the community really hard, must be pretty tough for you guys over CB and KOTA... trying to make everything work...

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1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

Combat Box has been running Alternate spotting for a few days now, yet the forums and our Discord channel contain quite a few posts singling us out as running "expert" spotting. The same is true for KOTA who have done the same. Just goes to show that the difference is not as large as people would have you believe with Alternate enabled!

 

Thanks for confirming!  Based on experience of myself and the others I was on comms with (some who are extremely experienced and dedicated to realism) everyone was still sufficiently challenged overall, no "gimme's" noted!

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8 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

Combat Box has been running Alternate spotting for a few days now, yet the forums and our Discord channel contain quite a few posts singling us out as running "expert" spotting. The same is true for KOTA who have done the same. Just goes to show that the difference is not as large as people would have you believe with Alternate enabled!

 

Thats funny...because it is very very obvious to some of us.  The fact that almost immediately after they temporarily took away the initial "100K vis" thing lots of people were complaining that they had gone back to the "10k bubble" seems to indicate that the differences for a lot of people are quite significant indeed.

Edited by SeaSerpent
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2 minutes ago, SCG_Faerber said:

It's a mess, devs should have just allowed for one spotting system and thats it. Having 2 fractures the community really hard, must be pretty tough for you guys over CB and KOTA... trying to make everything work...

 

It's not great I must admit. CB has always been a server focused on building an inclusive community, so making anybody feel blind and like they can't participate is the last thing we want to do. With that in mind the Alternate spotting seems like the natural choice, though we are planning on testing "Expert" visibility in the near future and gauging player response.

1 minute ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

Thats funny...because it is very very obvious to some of us. 

 

Based on @ICDP's testing I have reason to believe it's very hardware dependent

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42 minutes ago, ICDP said:

I tested the different visibility options at 4K and at 1080p.

 

Alternate Visibility checked

4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

1080p - Dots were visible across the entire map (Rhineland).  In fact from around 10K to much further distances the "dots" were identical in size.

 

It looks like resolution is a big factor.

 

Thanks for this. Looks like resolution is the missing puzzle in this spotting issue debate.

 

They should definitely enlarge the dots depending on the resolution used. As it stands now, VR guys and those with HD screens have the advantage over those with higher rez screens...

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I updated my testing for the different visibility options at 4K and at 1080p.

 

Alternate Visibility checked

  • 4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Still an improvement over pre patch visibility.
  • 1080p - Dots were visible across almost the entire map (Rhineland).  In fact from around 10K to much further distances the "dots" were identical in size.  Just looked wrong for me.

 

Alternative Visibility OFF (Unchecked)

  • 4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Much the same as with ON as above
  • 1080p - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

 

Suggestions

  1. If you want a level playing field that is similar regardless of resolution, then stick with Alt Vis OFF.
  2. If you want want super human long range visibility play at 1080p with Alt Vis on :)
  3. If you play with a 4K screen on a server that has Alt Vis checked, then lower your resolution or they will see you long before you see them.

 

I suspect anyone stating dots are too visible are playing at 1080p.

Edited by ICDP
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12 minutes ago, ICDP said:

If you play with a 4K screen on a server that has Alt Vis checked, then lower your resolution or they will see you long before you see them.

I have suspected for a long time that resolution settings are a big part of the problem. So now the issue seems to be is if you are flying on a server with Alt Vis enabled it is pointless having a higher resolution than 1920x1980. 

 

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S!

 

 @6./ZG26_Custard I think most of western players forget that our Eastern friends do not necessarily have the moolah to spend on high end hardware, thus most are using 1080p. I have not moved to 1440p or higher yet either, because while flying I just can not see a squat, tested on a friend´s machine. So now I use a 2560x1080 35" wide screen. With Alternate the LOD and Zoom issue depends on plane mostly. Bigger planes like Pe-2 or 110 have a slight problem, single engine fighters less so. I have tried to test if any settings have an effect for the better or worse, but as pointed out the issue is propably the resolution. Nibbio mentioned Lefuneste´s mod helps too with this issue in Alternate, has anyone else tested it?

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51 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

 

Thanks for this. Looks like resolution is the missing puzzle in this spotting issue debate.

 

They should definitely enlarge the dots depending on the resolution used. As it stands now, VR guys and those with HD screens have the advantage over those with higher rez screens...

 

I am a VR user, Pimax 5k+, and my graphics visual experience used to be great, but ever since the new big patch that we had all been waiting for, including the hot fixes, my graphics are now appallingly bad! 

No advantage for me at all, I can assure you of that.  I am in this for MP and real human interaction flying, but have to now give up flying with my squad as the new patch graphics has cause this flight simulation to be no longer enjoyable and is now a rather miserable experience for me.

All the other great stuff that the development team has delivered with the new patch has been totally overshadowed by the horrible graphics, which are all blurry now in VR.  On top of this sad state of affairs, is the awful alternate visibility that MP servers have adopted.

I shall leave off flying in MP for now and spend my time off-line learning to fly the new aircraft available in the hope that the graphics will be fixed soon.  I feel very sad about this and wish the developers good luck in fixing the graphics.  In the mean time I would love for the dev's to return to the pre-patch graphics so that I can enjoy the rest of this flight simulation like I used too.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman 

 

Processor: Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake CPU, 6 Cores, 3.7 - 4.7GHz, overclocked 
Case: Fractal Design Define R6 Case - Black 
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Graphics Card 
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eDimensional AudioFX2 FF Vibration Headset 
Gametrix KW-908 Jetseat (with SSA software)

Edited by 56RAF_Talisman

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1 hour ago, ICDP said:

I updated my testing for the different visibility options at 4K and at 1080p.

 

Alternate Visibility checked

  • 4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Still an improvement over pre patch visibility.
  • 1080p - Dots were visible across almost the entire map (Rhineland).  In fact from around 10K to much further distances the "dots" were identical in size.  Just looked wrong for me.

 

Alternative Visibility OFF (Unchecked)

  • 4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Much the same as with ON as above
  • 1080p - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

 

Suggestions

  1. If you want a level playing field that is similar regardless of resolution, then stick with Alt Vis OFF.
  2. If you want want super human long range visibility play at 1080p with Alt Vis on :)
  3. If you play with a 4K screen on a server that has Alt Vis checked, then lower your resolution or they will see you long before you see them.

 

I suspect anyone stating dots are too visible are playing at 1080p.

I play at 1080 p and as stated I cannot see across the entire map in alt vis mode. Most I have seen is 20km or so, most of the time even less, using cities as landmarks and estimating position on the map for the farthest seen dot (I was watching aircraft take off from our airfield near Antwerp and they were visible against the city, so I could tell where they were). So resolution isn't the entire story here either.

The thing about testing 4k vs. 1080p is that to do that, you have to have a monitor that can show 1080 p vs. 4k. I think that a native 4k monitor rendering 1080p is going to be a little different than a native 1080p monitor rendering 1080p. 

I think the new spotting has really laid bare the vast differences between a lot of our displays and settings - some people are seeing contacts at 20km plus even on the expert spotting, others can't see anything beyond 5km. 
 

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52 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I play at 1080 p and as stated I cannot see across the entire map in alt vis mode. Most I have seen is 20km or so, most of the time even less, using cities as landmarks and estimating position on the map for the farthest seen dot (I was watching aircraft take off from our airfield near Antwerp and they were visible against the city, so I could tell where they were). So resolution isn't the entire story here either.

The thing about testing 4k vs. 1080p is that to do that, you have to have a monitor that can show 1080 p vs. 4k. I think that a native 4k monitor rendering 1080p is going to be a little different than a native 1080p monitor rendering 1080p. 

I think the new spotting has really laid bare the vast differences between a lot of our displays and settings - some people are seeing contacts at 20km plus even on the expert spotting, others can't see anything beyond 5km. 
 

 

Apologies, I should have specified that I used a native 24" 1080p monitor and a 32" 4K monitor.  Both were IPS monitors.  From my testing/estimation I would say I was seeing easily visible from very long distances of ~40-50K.  From my testing Alt Vis at 1080p gave a massive advantage in spotting.  Unless you are also able to test using a native 4K monitor to verify your conclusion that resolution is not the major factor?  (Not calling you out, this is a genuine question and worth having more input).

 

EDIT: Here is an unedited 1080p image taken from around 60-70K distance.  The camera is over the city of Ghent and the dots are about 10K SW of Antwerp in the QMB.  So around 60-70K according to google maps.  The 4x white dots can be seen quite clearly just above the horizon and are even more noticeable when they are moving.

 

For the record the dots are a P-51D, P-38, Fw190D and Bf109K

Spotting 1080p Ghent to SW of Antwerp.png

Edited by ICDP

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2 hours ago, Talon_ said:

Based on @ICDP's testing I have reason to believe it's very hardware dependent

 

Hooked up my old 1080 res monitor. Could actually spot targets I would have never seen on my highres monitor. So yes, its very much hardware dependent. Not sure on how this could be solved onless PPI is considered.

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16 minutes ago, cellinsky said:

 

Hooked up my old 1080 res monitor. Could actually spot targets I would have never seen on my highres monitor. So yes, its very much hardware dependent. Not sure on how this could be solved onless PPI is considered.

 

It's quite logical in hindsight.  At 4K a pixel is one quarter the size it is at 1080p so all things being equal it will be much easier to see at 1080p.  Maybe the devs need to take rendering resolution into consideration.  Or as my testing shows, keep alternate vis off.  It is still a big improvement over the older pre-patch visibility system.

Edited by ICDP

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2 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

 

I am a VR user, Pimax 5k+, and my graphics visual experience used to be great, but ever since the new big patch that we had all been waiting for, including the hot fixes, my graphics are now appallingly bad! 

(.....)

Turnt PP off? 

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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1 hour ago, ICDP said:

 

Apologies, I should have specified that I used a native 24" 1080p monitor and a 32" 4K monitor.  Both were IPS monitors.  From my testing/estimation I would say I was seeing easily visible from very long distances of ~40-50K.  From my testing Alt Vis at 1080p gave a massive advantage in spotting.  Unless you are also able to test using a native 4K monitor to verify your conclusion that resolution is not the major factor?  (Not calling you out, this is a genuine question and worth having more input).

 

EDIT: Here is an unedited 1080p image taken from around 60-70K distance.  The camera is over the city of Ghent and the dots are about 10K SW of Antwerp in the QMB.  So around 60-70K according to google maps.  The 4x white dots can be seen quite clearly just above the horizon and are even more noticeable when they are moving.

 

For the record the dots are a P-51D, P-38, Fw190D and Bf109K

Spotting 1080p Ghent to SW of Antwerp.png

Oh,  I see. If you are comparing two monitors like that it’s much more viable comparison. I don’t have anything but my 1080p monitor to test on unfortunately. Still, flying in Combat Box last night i was never able to spot craft at that distance even when the radar call outs noted that planes were above a certain city and I looked in that direction. Possibly there is some other setting that is causing big difference, or I just didn’t look hard enough.

 

Edited by RedKestrel

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So, as I have got absolutely no clue about the current drawing implementations and its limitations, I asked myself how a good implementation for various resolutions and ranges could look like regardless of it:

 

It would be nice if there was a resolution-independent angular size abstraction layer for aircraft drawn. The actual size would then be translated to the pixels (via FOV) and if the size of 1 pixel is not met, then the pixel intensity would be lowered accordingly (using a neighborhood averaging filter), allowing for a fade in and fade out. 

 

This layer would also allow for a scaling operator, that would let's say, amplify target size by 1.5 from 15km out and gradually lower to 1 approaching point blank distance. 

 

That way a more resolution independent implementation would be possible that would also allow for alternate scaling. 

 

In the above model, transitions in LOD Size are gradual instead of step wise. 

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4 hours ago, ICDP said:

 

 

Alternative Visibility OFF (Unchecked)

  • 4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Much the same as with ON as above
  • 1080p - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

I spotted way beyond 10km on a 1080p monitor, granted it was a B25 but I could see it well up to 25km

 

Edited by SCG_Faerber

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I run 4k and can spot very easy 40km out.  Calling contacts that wingman can't see.  I do run reshade tuned to my likes.  I have completely opposite findings.  🤔

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Those screenshots showing the 70km spots make my point. Those dots are almost impossible to see, and they are so far away that it is virtually tactically irrelevant. By the time you flew over there that plane would likely be dead, rtb, or you even more likely you would lose track of it before you arrived.

 

However with alt-spotting on contacts from 25km and under have quite realistic spotting, and this is critical not only for general spotting but for being able to cruise at higher altitude and still be relevant. Moreover spotting at 70km is probably not impossible, just much rarer than we see in game. Overall this is a huge improvement to the game and I very much appreciate the devs adding it.

 

The point being is that alt-spotting is the more tactically realistic and fun of the two options. Neither is perfect.

 

Moreover: The spotting issue in this game that has not been fixed really is the sub 3nm spotting. The glint effect has certainly helps with spotting close targets against the ground, but in general the sub 3nm spotting is unrealistically poor. I could be wrong, but it appears to me that under 6km there is not scaling at all. There might not be any under 6km. It is the spotting at 6km  (3.5miles) and below that needs fixed more than anything else really. There is far much planes blending into the ground even when you are staring right at them. And there needs to be some scaling at these ranges because everything is too small, particularly in profile.

 

 

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6 hours ago, ICDP said:

I updated my testing for the different visibility options at 4K and at 1080p.

 

Alternate Visibility checked

  • 4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Still an improvement over pre patch visibility.
  • 1080p - Dots were visible across almost the entire map (Rhineland).  In fact from around 10K to much further distances the "dots" were identical in size.  Just looked wrong for me.

 

Alternative Visibility OFF (Unchecked)

  • 4K - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).  Much the same as with ON as above
  • 1080p - Dots became almost invisible at ranges over 10k unless you got some glint (white dot).

 

Suggestions

  1. If you want a level playing field that is similar regardless of resolution, then stick with Alt Vis OFF.
  2. If you want want super human long range visibility play at 1080p with Alt Vis on :)
  3. If you play with a 4K screen on a server that has Alt Vis checked, then lower your resolution or they will see you long before you see them.

 

I suspect anyone stating dots are too visible are playing at 1080p.

Why didn’t 1CGS test this feature like you have done, before releasing it?

seems like a simple thing to have done. Who thought seeing aircraft across the entire map would be ok?

IL-2 just added the same ridiculous feature DCS did and then got rid of. I would have hoped they had more sense. But Devs get driven to do crazy stuff by the vocal player base. 

 

Running a 4K monitor myself, the results I get are like what you see. I don’t see the giant dots. 

Edited by SharpeXB
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It's obvious that opinions differ strongly on this.

 

As a VR player, I'm incredibly thankful for the alternate visibility. For the first time since getting a VR headset I can turn icons off, which is an indescribable increase in immersion.  The zoom stuff is not an issue for me because I don't use zoom (it feels incredibly "gamey" when you're at 1:1 scale and makes me nauseous).  Like others have pointed out, the sim needs to simulate both the field of view and the "resolution" of the human eyeball on our comparatively inferior displays. Alt Vis is a solution to the FOV vs resolution problem, and it has different pros and cons compared to zoom.

 

I'm very glad to have the choice.

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I think we have excellent situation, options to choose from. Anyone can setup a server and use the settings he pleases. 

 

It seems to me that it's pissing off some because alternative is a more popular choise.

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22 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

 

 

It seems to me that it's pissing off some because alternative is a more popular choise.

 

yeah, you're correct, it -is- pissing some people off (quite a lot actually judging by the number of negative comments in this thread) because it's deemed to be much less realistic than the "expert" or "normal" setting, and as hard as it might be for you to believe, some here have an affinity for something called "simulation". 

Edited by SeaSerpent
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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Why didn’t 1CGS test this feature like you have done, before releasing it?

 

 

They and we did, and 102 other things.

Quote

1. Tempest Mk.V Series 2 fighter is available to all Bodenplatte owners;

[...]
103. Radio chatter volume is affected if the player is concussed, lost consciousness or wounded.

 

If you would have everything released 100% error free and optimized as you'd like it best you would not be playing this sim. In fact you'd be wondering why there are no sims around at all.

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1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Why didn’t 1CGS test this feature like you have done, before releasing it?

 

It seems the devs did not intend to release this feature (1st hotfix), but due to public outcry decided to make it available as an option (2nd hotfix). 

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28 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

yeah, you're correct, it -is- pissing some people off (quite a lot actually judging by the number of negative comments in this thread) because it's deemed to be much less realistic than the "expert" or "normal" setting, and as hard as it might be for you to believe, some here have an affinity for something called "simulation". 

Not so much complainers compared to the player base it seems. Complainers are always most loud'. Others are happily flying. As said, glad we have options.

Edited by LLv24_Zami

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5 hours ago, ICDP said:

At 4K a pixel is one quarter the size it is at 1080p so all things being equal it will be much easier to see at 1080p.

 

I guess we are back in time where some competitive-minded people will go down to 640k to get the edge in spotting. Well, I hope there will be at least one populated server with the realistic visibility setting.

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Just now, LLv24_Zami said:

Not so much complainers compared to the player base it seems. Others are happily flying. As said, glad we have options.

 

"we have options".  I'm not a server operator, mission designer or marketeer, and have no interest in being such.  So if mainstream server operators decide to go with EasyMode vis because it is "most popular", than my choice is to play in a server with settings that I don't like, or else, go find something else.  I guess that makes guys like you happy, because the tone of your writing indicates there is a certain amount of glee over that situation.

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6 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

"we have options".  I'm not a server operator, mission designer or marketeer, and have no interest in being such.  So if mainstream server operators decide to go with EasyMode vis because it is "most popular", than my choice is to play in a server with settings that I don't like, or else, go find something else.  I guess that makes guys like you happy, because the tone of your writing indicates there is a certain amount of glee over that situation.

Well, I just don't know how anyone can help you. You're not willing to do anything yourself, and no one can force server admins to do anything they don't want.

 

Yoy want to force others to do like you want, thats absurd.

 

And no, Im not happy. I want options for everyone but server admins do as they please.

Edited by LLv24_Zami

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18 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Well, I just don't know how anyone can help you. You're not willing to do anything yourself, and no one can force server admins to do anything they don't want.

 

Yoy want to force others to do like you want, thats absurd.

 

lol, I don't need "help".  I left IL-2 about 6 months ago for DCS, approximately around the time the Tomcat came out, and returned very recently within the last 2 weeks because I was eager to try out Bodenplatte!  I had intended to get back into the swing of things, but I'm not a prisoner of this game, I go where I am most happy, and I have no shortage of such places.  If the game is not for me anymore, because it's become too arcade-like, it is a dissapointment because there are a lot of good things about Il-2, but not that big a deal.  I can check back in 2 weeks, or 3 months, and if things are different, cool, if not, oh well.  My experience though, through several flight sims, is that when games change their character like this due to popular demands, it isn't always the blue skies ahead you think it might be.

 

The ironic thing is that the thing that most infuriates me about flight simming, and my greatest weakness, is being able to spot bogies before they spot me.  I consider myself terrible at it.  Most of the time I get shot down, and it's quite a lot, it's by an enemy I didn't notice.  If only I could spot enemies better!!!!  But that is how it worked in real life, where they say 90% of the shootdowns were from opponents that weren't seen, and my hobby is flight simulation:  I'm not going to use crutches that give me 2xChuck Yeager vision to make myself feel better.

 

 

Edited by SeaSerpent
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It's literally not even that bad, seriously.  I know you're not playing on a 1080.  Tweak your settings and I'm sure you can find something tolerable.

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14 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

lol, I don't need "help".  I left IL-2 about 6 months ago for DCS, approximately around the time the Tomcat came out, and returned very recently within the last 2 weeks because I was eager to try out Bodenplatte!  I had intended to get back into the swing of things, but I'm not a prisoner of this game, I go where I am most happy, and I have no shortage of such places.  If the game is not for me anymore, because it's become too arcade-like, it is a dissapointment because there are a lot of good things about Il-2, but not that big a deal.  I can check back in 2 weeks, 3 months, and if things are different, cool, if not, oh well.  My experience though, through several flight sims, is that when games change their character like this due to popular demands, it isn't always the blue skies ahead you think it might be.

 

 

Okay, I'm glad for you. You seem to have options after all, like we all do. I've never played anything I don't like. 

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10 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

All the other great stuff that the development team has delivered with the new patch has been totally overshadowed by the horrible graphics, which are all blurry now in VR.  On top of this sad state of affairs, is the awful alternate visibility that MP servers have adopted.

 

 

I wonder if you are experiencing the same blurry bug with the new update I was getting in 2d mode with the "full screen" mode.  It went a way when I switched to "windowed mode."  Nobody responded to my report with pics attached (see below).  The graphics should not be blurry but if you have this bug then the alternative view system is magnified even more with distant planes being large blobs followed by them practically disappearing when you zoom in on them.

 

 

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