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WOW on Physiology

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12 hours ago, KG200_Achilleus said:

My friend, thank you for your research,

really appreciate it.

It could be very helpful if the theme to my last post was “how to complete a fast turn- with min speed loss without blacking out”..

but it wasn't,

the post made to represent(one more time) the G limit and how quickly the blackouts are occurring even at a simple maneuver(just a smooth turn), and probably they wouldn't at those times.(at least in reality)

 

 

But that was kind of my point, how quickly blackouts are occurring based on your turn examples compared to what the aircraft is cable of doing in real life. So achieving some consistent turns to try and match real world turn rates, how fast can I turn 90, 180 degrees, degrees a second, at what entry speeds and altitudes, etc. Can I match, exceed, or not turn as fast as the real world aircraft? Then while doing this and matching the info, how do the g effects respond.

 

So one place to start is try to achieve the fastest turn rates, various max turns, dives, etc. without blacking out and compare that to real world numbers. 

 

Pulling on a virtual flight stick is so easy and typically a much less distance to travel from center to back/forward, I think it's greatly underestimated how much of an affect that has on timing and blacking out quickly. So the actual video test you did are missing a lot of info for comparison as well as consistent turn examples. 

 

I read some real pilots respond on the forum and wonder how much they consider the differences in RW aircraft/verses/Virtual aircraft in the flight controls. It's such a subtle difference in timing, speed loss, etc. 

 

Maybe someone on the forum could provide some practical test that can be done for different aircraft demonstrating turn performances in the sim verses real world, and then look at how the g effects are implemented as the flight test is done. 

 

So many variables.  

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2 hours ago, WWDriftwood said:

Pulling on a virtual flight stick is so easy and typically a much less distance to travel from center to back/forward, I think it's greatly underestimated how much of an affect that has on timing and blacking out quickly. So the actual video test you did are missing a lot of info for comparison as well as consistent turn examples. 

 

I read some real pilots respond on the forum and wonder how much they consider the differences in RW aircraft/verses/Virtual aircraft in the flight controls. It's such a subtle difference in timing, speed loss, etc. 

 

Maybe someone on the forum could provide some practical test that can be done for different aircraft demonstrating turn performances in the sim verses real world, and then look at how the g effects are implemented as the flight test is done.

Because the thing that counts here the most, is how fast is making that 6G. In DDs it is very clearly written that the way cardiovascular system modelling works, is that it takes a few seconds to develop high G resistance. And so ingame high G, long turns are possible if the G factor comes on gradually. That is why it`s relatively hard to blackout in 109s, easy to do it in 190/Tempest/Spitfire. Long lasting turnfights are perfrctly possible imo, just not silly evasive/gun solution maneuvers.

Edited by Mac_Messer
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I think the physiology overall, and in particular the effects of speed and duration of G-force application, is modeled pretty accurately based on personal experience.

 

When I was 19 I went with some buddies to the county fair after work on a Friday, we drank a bunch of beers in the parking lot, then went inside the fairgrounds where I had a couple of greazy corn dogs.  The first ride we went to was the Tilt-A-Whirl, we strapped in, and there were a couple of absolute babes across from us so I was flirting around with one of 'em as the ride started up.  As it spun faster and faster, the constant sideways G-forces slowly became more and more noticeable, I could tell things weren't going the way I wanted with the beer and corn dogs sloshing around in my stomach and that tingly sensation starting in my mouth, and slowly but surely things went more and more sour until I yuu... yuuuuu... yuuuuurked up both corn dogs and most of the beer, which immediately spewed out to the right (we were standing, spinning to the left) as soon as it exited my mouth, splattering all over the pants of this 11-year old kid who was strapped in a couple of spaces away to my right.  He never even noticed it, probably because it was a warm evening.  The ride stopped shortly after that, the kid unhooked his strap and actually said "Oh Boy that was FUN" as he went running toward the exit, my buddies were laughing hysterically and the babe I was flirting with came over as we got off the ride and actually apologized, saying "I'm SO SORRY!" several times like it was all her fault and of course I was too ashamed to ask her phone number or anything of course (loss of consciousness kinda thing?). 

 

So yeah, physiology checks out although maybe some attention to detail lacking in the way of decorative in-cockpit effects, which could feasibly be addressed in the future if needed.  
 

 

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Not totally relevant to current IL2, but one interesting thing with blacking out in WWII aircraft is how important it is to have stick free longitudinal stability.

 

The MkV Spitfire had a crisis in RAF use when rear CG loading creep at the squadron level led to instability and probable mid air breakups. Basically if you were going fast enough to pull yourself to blackout at around 4-6g without stalling, you let go of the stick and the plane would tighten further into the turn by itself until the airframe failed at 9-10g or so.  Perhaps you would wake up having been ejected from the disintegrating aircraft and pull the parachute, but probably not. Technically a P51D with full internal fuel load (and hence very rear CG) might do this also which would be an interesting thing to simulate, but I'm not aware of any actual accounts of it happening. Have read a few accounts from shocked new pilots after being sent up in fully fueled up P51Ds without being told to be extremely careful about manouvering until draining the rear tank, which seems amazing from a modern safety perspective.

 

cheers, camber

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Can we get a definitive answer regarding G suits ?

 

Which aircraft have them in the Sim ? P51,P47 and P38?

 

Are the aircraft and pilots equipped with them by Default ?

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55 minutes ago, Bert_Foster said:

Which aircraft have them in the Sim ? P51,P47 and P38?

 

Are the aircraft and pilots equipped with them by Default ?

 

Yes and yes

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I should have posted this earlier. This was a test I did shortly after the patch. Tried to see all the different effects with the new physiology. Cool thing was the weekend before the patch I spent about 8 hours flying to try and push my turns and ride the edge of a blackout. So when the patch came out and I performed the same moves, I had to make a bit of an adjustment. 

 

But this is constantly entering positive and negative g flight, inverted dives and flight into positive g turns, so it a big pilot workout. You should be able to read the speedometer/altimeter most of the flight. Blacked out a couple times, even long enough for my engines to cut out, the 3rd was the end of my flight. I think all the different effects are shown in the video. Accept once and a while the guy huffs hard, I get a double huff, ooof ooof like a stutter, or that means my pilot is really really tired. 

 

 

Edited by WWDriftwood
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