Jump to content
danielprates

The Rheinland map

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

And crap all else.

 

What “all else”?   The developer of the “arcade” game obviously decided that people who wanted an arcade experience were happy with a small map.  The developer of the “realistic” game decided that their customers wanted a larger map.  If you want both options in the same game you might have to start your own game company.

 

You could learn how to create your own maps.   That’s what the guys who created the Velikiye Luki did.

Edited by BraveSirRobin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

What “all else”?   The developer of the “arcade” game obviously decided that people who wanted an arcade experience were happy with a small map.  The developer of the “realistic” game decided that their customers wanted a larger map.  If you want both options in the same game you might have to start your own game company.

Or chose DCS as second platform beside IL-2. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This should be you're view of Rhineland most of the time...from here I don't care how many villages there are over how many kilometers.

Just give me something to shoot!

 

2019_11_26__1_53_14.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

Or chose DCS as second platform beside IL-2. 

 

I’ve heard that the DCS Normandy map is a disaster.  Not to mention that lots of the DCS WW2 aircraft didn’t fly over their Normandy map.   But, sure, you could do that.  

15 minutes ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

Or chose DCS as second platform beside IL-2. 

 

Shorter answer.  You probably won’t live long enough to see an appropriate DCS map for your DCS Dora.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Primus: we are leaving the topic "The Rhineland Map" and thus derailing the thread, aren't we? 

 

Secundus: in regards to DCS. You have not the slightest idea what You're talking about. I'm not intent to advertise another product on this webspace here, but the given aircraft in DCS are beyond all doubts remarkable. 

 

The Normandy map is a stinker I have to admit though and back on topic of IL-2 maps, I absolutely hope that the GB Normandy map will surpass the DCS Normandy map. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Blooddawn1942 said:

 

You have not the slightest idea what You're talking about. I'm not intent to advertise another product on this webspace here, but the given aircraft in DCS are beyond all doubts remarkable. 

 

 

We’re not talking about the aircraft.  We’re talking about the map.

 

PS.  I know exactly what I’m talking about.  I own the DCS P-51, 109, and Dora.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

 

Shorter answer.  You probably won’t live long enough to see an appropriate DCS map for your DCS Dora.

I'm half way there. While I have another 40 years to look forward to, I'm confident, I will fly the D9 above the Reich in 2027 or 2034. ;)

Edited by Blooddawn1942

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

What “all else”?   The developer of the “arcade” game obviously decided that people who wanted an arcade experience were happy with a small map.  The developer of the “realistic” game decided that their customers wanted a larger map.  If you want both options in the same game you might have to start your own game company.

 

You could learn how to create your own maps.   That’s what the guys who created the Velikiye Luki did.

 

Sorry, don't mind me. I don't want to get in the way of this EXCELLENT discusison. Toodle-oo!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

We’re not talking about the aircraft.  We’re talking about the map.

 

Didn't I pointed out exactly this? 

1 minute ago, danielprates said:

 

Sorry, don't mind me. I don't want to get in the way of this EXCELLENT discusison. Toodle-oo!

No. You're very welcome. More arms to the front. 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Blooddawn1942 said:

Didn't I pointed out exactly this? 

 

No, you tried to go off on a tangent about the DCS aircraft when you realized that DCS maps wasn't really a winning argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

No, you tried to go off on a tangent about the DCS aircraft when you realized that DCS maps wasn't really a winning argument.

You're twisting my arguments. I had not to realize that the DCS Normandy map is bloody bollocks. I admitted it in the first place. 

 

That goes not for the ED maps though which are excellent. 

Edited by Blooddawn1942

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

This should be you're view of Rhineland most of the time...from here I don't care how many villages there are over how many kilometers.

Just give me something to shoot!

 

The Jug in it's natural habitat :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had our share of fun. I enjoyed it and it felt like L.G. Hawker vs Richthofen. Chivalry forum duell at its best. It was kind of entertaining. But I'm off to bed now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

This should be you're view of Rhineland most of the time...from here I don't care how many villages there are over how many kilometers.

Just give me something to shoot!

 

2019_11_26__1_53_14.jpg

 

Looks cool, only problem is the trees still have leaves and I see no firs or spruces. That ought to change. It never snows in september, as we all know from Robert Kershaw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First, the map of Moscow region has been improved, more evergreen trees were added. They weren't simply added to existing forests at random - forest types reflect the real forestation in the area. You can see the forest type map below: violet color for pine, red for spruce, yellow for leaf, blue and aquamarine for mixed forests.
_forests.jpg
 
 
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Especially recently, the Devs have been doing an excellent job of making changes that directly relate to community feedback (see spotting and clouds among many other examples).

It is rare that the maps have come in for criticism, but when they have, the Devs have a track record for updating maps, even long after their release (i.e. removal of fields at Stalingrad among many other examples).

This makes me plenty hopeful that we will see changes here.

Edited by [DBS]Browning
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

 

No you don't.  Just play Warthunder.  It's my understanding that they have much smaller, but more detailed, maps.  

 

I'll clarify my feelings: I hope that the development of the GB series will also focus on technological improvements that intend to allow more detailed landscapes, and not just larger ones. I'm interested in the careful representation of both natural and artificial characteristics of a given territory at some point in history just as much as I am fond of a detailed recreation of aircraft and of aerial combat. I think action and place are equally important. I hope this is reasonable enough.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Picchio said:

 

I'll clarify my feelings: I hope that the development of the GB series will also focus on technological improvements that intend to allow more detailed landscapes, and not just larger ones. 

 

I suspect the issue isn’t one that can fixed by technology.  I suspect that the problem is the time needed to add all those details. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

Or chose DCS as second platform beside IL-2. 


In these polarized times it is unacceptable liking more than one game, and a must to hate them others. 
But honestly, if you find it too hard making your own sim, I see no other option than flying many brands of sim’s. 
Only then all things can be enjoyed, no sim is best in all, or meet all customers

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My gosh is fighting annoying... I came here looking for historic photo-references for rail yards, barges, and canal boats... and what do I find? Bickering?!

 

Just challenge each other to duels so we can move on!

Edited by Avimimus
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting to see that anybody suggesting a bit more work for the map is stomped into the ground. 

 

Argument No. 1 being "the devs have no time".

Yeah, it's their job, they don't have time for their job? Of course they do. 

 

They have time for a Normandy map but the Rhineland map is still a pretty repetitive WIP-wasteland. 😃 

But new planes and titles bring money as opposed to content we already paid for. 😁👍

 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they didn't have enough time, they should re-evaluate their goals. If their team is too small, they should focus on smaller, less ambitious projects. If our hardware couldn't handle this amount of geometry, they also should re-evaluate their ambitions. Maybe they should sell maps and planes individually (to some extent they already do with premium aircraft) if they have problems with deadlines and quality. If the engine can't handle large, detailed maps, focus on smaller ones. I'm a paying customer, not a friend, not family. I paid in advance and i expected a product of comparable quality to previous releases. This is the last time i bought something in advance from this developer and i'm not sure if i will buy anything at all from this point forward. The Rheinland map is just low quality, unfinished mess, if it doesn't get a significant overhaul, i'm done with this sim.

 

Also, all that talk about DCS Normandy map being bad is quite hilarious. Yeah, it may be meh by DCS standards, but it's still lightyears above the barren landscape of Rheinland created through the magic of ctrl-c and ctrl-v.

 

At the end of the day, this is strictly business. I'm definitely not going to cut them any slack. I paid my hard earned money and they underdelivered.

 

Go on, call me being too negative. But next time you're shopping for groceries and end up buying rotten food, stand by your standards and don't complain. Think of the hardships the seller had to go through to deliver those products to you 😂

Edited by bonescraper
  • Like 2
  • Sad 1
  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is a COMBAT flight sim, the most important thing for me is game play,good AI,good effects,good missions etc,

good maps and scenery is all very nice but some people have low end computers,so high detail maps would make this sim unplayable for a lot of people.

i agree more types of ground objects to shoot at would be nice,but these can be added by the clever mission builders out there.

if you just want to fly and look at beautiful scenery,buy the upcoming Microsoft flight simulator,I repeat myself this is a COMBAT flight sim,so I can live with less than perfect scenery

if you live in a house and you look out of your window and the view outside is of epic beauty,after a few days that same view gets less interesting and boring and you stop looking

  • Confused 3
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

S! 

 

A dull or not so good map reduces immersion. Even the FM/DM etc. are important, they are the core of the game and should be good, without question. 

 

Sounds blunt, but a developer should not always cater to the potato computer users. You can not expect to run a high fidelity simulator on a steampunk computer. Oleg said it already in early days of original IL-2 that if you want a better game then be sure to have hardware to run it.

 

It comes with a price and of course it is kind of discriminating for those who can not have or afford decent rigs. But a line has to be drawn at some point. 

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, meplanes1969 said:

this is a COMBAT flight sim, the most important thing for me is game play,good AI,good effects,good missions etc,

good maps and scenery is all very nice but some people have low end computers,so high detail maps would make this sim unplayable for a lot of people.

i agree more types of ground objects to shoot at would be nice,but these can be added by the clever mission builders out there.

if you just want to fly and look at beautiful scenery,buy the upcoming Microsoft flight simulator,I repeat myself this is a COMBAT flight sim,so I can live with less than perfect scenery

if you live in a house and you look out of your window and the view outside is of epic beauty,after a few days that same view gets less interesting and boring and you stop looking

 

 

As long as the sim allows you to kill off terrain quality and keep the planes and clouds nice and that gets you good FPS, then the option to turn the terrain way up should remain available. If you kill off the eye candy in this sim you can get really good FPS and the planes still look great.

 

We're on the edge of 2020 here, our disposable coffee cups have more computing power than the Voyager spacecrafts that are now way past Pluto. It's not unreasonable for a combat flightsim to be pushing the envelope of high quality eye candy.

 

I love me some flightsim eye candy. :cool:

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Newer maps/ planes/details should not be a step backwards.

Maps were getting better and better, and people were expecting same quality or better, but not less.

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bonescraper said:

If they didn't have enough time, they should re-evaluate their goals. If their team is too small, they should focus on smaller, less ambitious projects. If our hardware couldn't handle this amount of geometry, they also should re-evaluate their ambitions. Maybe they should sell maps and planes individually (to some extent they already do with premium aircraft) if they have problems with deadlines and quality. If the engine can't handle large, detailed maps, focus on smaller ones. I'm a paying customer, not a friend, not family. I paid in advance and i expected a product of comparable quality to previous releases. This is the last time i bought something in advance from this developer and i'm not sure if i will buy anything at all. The Rheinland map is just low quality, unfinished mess, if it doesn't get a significant overhaul, i'm done with this sim.

 

Also, all that talk about DCS Normandy map being bad is quite hilarious. Yeah, it may be meh by DCS standards, but it's still lightyears above the barren landscape of Rheinland created through the magic of ctrl-c and ctrl-v.

 

At the end of the day, this is strictly business. I'm definitely not going to cut them any slack. I paid my hard earned money and they underdelivered.

 

Go on, call me being too negative. But next time you're shopping for groceries and end up buying rotten food, stand by your standards and don't complain. Think of the hardships the seller had to go through to deliver those products to you 😂

The more I fly the rheinland map, the more disappointed I get. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, meplanes1969 said:

this is a COMBAT flight sim, the most important thing for me is game play,good AI,good effects,good missions etc,

good maps and scenery is all very nice but some people have low end computers,so high detail maps would make this sim unplayable for a lot of people.

i agree more types of ground objects to shoot at would be nice,but these can be added by the clever mission builders out there.

if you just want to fly and look at beautiful scenery,buy the upcoming Microsoft flight simulator,I repeat myself this is a COMBAT flight sim,so I can live with less than perfect scenery

if you live in a house and you look out of your window and the view outside is of epic beauty,after a few days that same view gets less interesting and boring and you stop looking

 

Its the same logic as "food has the purpose to provide energy and nutrition" while serving bland and cold porridge. If i had a good steak in the past and payed for a steak, i expect a steak, not porridge. If you dont have a problem with the quality that got delivered, good for you. We as paying customers have every right to expect the quality level of previous releases.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

The more I fly the rheinland map, the more disappointed I get. 

 

I'm sorry to hear that because it's a big map and that means a big disappointment.

 

I'm mostly happy with it, but then I'm a sucker for new maps. My only real gripe is the emptiness of it. I'm a QMB flyer and that means I'm flying over a large post-apocalypse dead world. If I saw a cow in a field I'd land and talk to it, ask if it needs a friend and if it's seen anyone in a while, that's how empty the map is. I mean, would it kill them to populate a few airfields or something?

  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

If I saw a cow in a field I'd land and talk to it, ask if it needs a friend and if it's seen anyone in a while, that's how empty the map is.

 

I hear the echo of Bob Ross...  :)

 

BR02.jpg

  • Haha 4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to admit that my days where I could spent years with a flight sim are somehow over. Nowadays I only manage to jump into a cockpit once in while, but what sticks with me is that it looks like those sims are getting less and less immersive as a single player experience.

 

What I loved in the past was that you always felt you were in the midlle of a bigger battle, sometimes even a whole battlefield experience. In "Knights of the Sky" you could pass by an enemy airfield with arriving and departing planes, issuing a challenge to the Ace of Base in the middle of everything that`s going on around you. In "Red Baron II" waves of bitmap soldiers stormed the opposite trench, when you attacked a truck column the soldiers were disembarking and running for the woods. In the original "IL- 2 Sturmovik" you could follow a Me 262 over the complete map to its base (to try to get it during landing) and find a rather crowded environment. You had the feeling there were air operations going on, something was happening.

 

Nowadays there are a couple of units spawned in the vicinity of your target and I have the feeling that this is it. Everything feels quite isolated and especially when I fly a ground attack airplane I want to see some intricate map design with units battling it out ...and a cohesive front line, not just 8 units in the target area. Really a pity that these days seem to be gone...

 

Edited by XShadowY
  • Like 3
  • Upvote 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ironk79 said:

 

Its the same logic as "food has the purpose to provide energy and nutrition" while serving bland and cold porridge. If i had a good steak in the past and payed for a steak, i expect a steak, not porridge. If you dont have a problem with the quality that got delivered, good for you. We as paying customers have every right to expect the quality level of previous releases.

 

What a steaming pile of equine excrement.

 

This here is entirely the problem.

 

Steak/porridge analogy clumsily applied to software/hardware limits??? Not only is it fundamentally inappropriate it also goes to shows how little you understand.

 

Poly limits are poly limits. Object density is a thing.

 

You got  a vast area of operations that offers a wide player base (RAF, USAAF, Jagdwaffe) an opportunity to play careers of meaningful length. 

 

Smaller map? Sure! But then you limit the scope of who historically would have operated within that region. Suddenly the RAF/USAAF/Luftwaffe bases are off the map, or the 262 bases are off the map, or the P-38 bases are off the map, or the <insert your fave ride here> bases are off the map, or you have a map valid for all of two weeks worth of frontline activity before the FEBA moves off map.

 

Make it half scale? Then the purists rant & rave. 

 

Put ALL the houses and farms in!!! Then no-one except Mr Moneybags with his Eight-core CPU, 128Gb RAM and quad SLI 2080Ti setup can even hope to load it, let alone get good frames; and forget about trying to host a multiplayer server with anything more than 1x AAA gun in it.

 

What about the mid-low end or even entry user who's PC is not gonna run even Kuban above 20fps but desperately wants to try BoBp out cos he loves ETO?

 

Seems to me there's a an over subscription of spoilt brats round these parts.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Confused 2
  • Sad 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like others, I'd have preferred a smaller map with more detail. I don't fly 1000km round trips, but I do look out of the window. The Rheinland map is what it is and I'm still not over seeing the industrial heart of Germany as a green valley with a few villages in between, but so be it. What bothers me is that the Normandy map is of similar size and I fear there'll be a similar result. Which is the major reason you don't see a BoN badge to the left, yet.

 

I'd appreciate a statement or commitment of some sort from the devs at this point, to know their point of view and their thought about detail/size/performance balance. Are they happy with Rheinland as it is, and what is their plan for Normandy?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would really like to know which (wartime) flight sim has lots of objects, people, animals, as well as troops in it and have a battlefield as big as Bodenplatte !?

DCS ? ... not really ... Ok, the maps look nice, but are also not that 'crowded'.

You could try Cliffs of Dover Blitz ... lots of planes and rather big area map.

I love FC and TC maps, but those are way smaller than the others.  

There are a.o. the attack helicopter sims like Apache : Air Assault and Heliborne with very nice but very small maps as well.

OTOH I personally don't think it can t be done like what people are expecting here, only I do not think IL-2 is an exception ... it is the rule !

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

 

What a steaming pile of equine excrement.

 

This here is entirely the problem.

 

Steak/porridge analogy clumsily applied to software/hardware limits??? Not only is it fundamentally inappropriate it also goes to shows how little you understand.

 

 

Read again, my comparison was refering to "i dont need good graphic in my combat sim". As paying customer, i couldnt care less about technical limitations, thats the job of the creators, to find good balance and still provide a product of quality. You dont seem to be bothered by funding or money limits. For me, 49$ for a map that appears to be created with an "it´ll do" attitude in large parts isnt good PR for future sellings. And when you look at the previous releases, this maps appears like 2 steps back. They should have gone PTO already, no problem with you holy "polycounts".

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"i couldnt care less about technical limitations"

 

And that just goes to show why a good proportion of your displeasure and indignation is generated by the fact that you are an ignoranamus. 

 

I must say it's quite bemusing watching people get in their own way.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

"i couldnt care less about technical limitations"

 

And that just goes to show why a good proportion of your displeasure and indignation is generated by the fact that you are an ignoranamus. 

 

I must say it's quite bemusing watching people get in their own way.

 

To me its amusing how people find all kind of excuses for sub qualtity work and settle happily with it. If thats your philosophy in life i hope you dont get served 1998 graphics in your next Sim.

And whats even funnier, the things i am bothered the most, arent things with limitations of HW or polycount, but sloppy copy paste textures that dont make sense or  non existing shore lines of the river. If the engine cant handle every of the thousands of villages, fine, but dont tell me we have to put up with texture mapping that looks like straight out of 2003.

Edited by ironk79
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ironk79 said:

To me its amusing how people find all kind of excuses for sub qualtity work and settle happily with it. If thats your philosophy in life i hope you dont get served 1998 graphics in your next Sim.

 

Hmmmm. Please continue to labour under your delusions - if only to reinforce my last assessment.

 

 

 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Uufflakke said:

 

I hear the echo of Bob Ross...  :)

 

BR02.jpg

 

 

It's legal over here now.

 

We're all Bob Ross. :friends:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is pretty obvious it hasn't been developed as much as the the other maps. Hopefully they can add to it over time like with other maps. The Stalingrad map was retextured, the moscow map forests were reworked, and Kuban came out amazing from the start because they took forever working on it. I really wish we could get a summer map of the Vieliekee Loki. That one is amazing. The railyards, tree placement, village and buildings placement, as well as attention to detail with the textures is just awesome. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...