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Microsoft Flight Sim 2020

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@Detcord12B,

 

I noticed the strangely shaped 'column trees' along the coastline of Naples.

It is still WIP and they might find a fix for it. But what does it look beautiful all together.

 

 

 

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S!

 

MS FS2020 sure sets the bar high graphically, there is no contest. I might buy it to just do some bush piloting. And seems the flight physics are there too when looking at those landing approaches.

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7 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

 

That comparison is apples to oranges. The default scenery in FSX, P3D, and XP is highly lacking. Like big time. Which is why there's a fairly large market for third-party addons. I probably have $1.5K worth of addons (aircraft, airports, terrain/scenery, weather, clouds, effects etc) for P3D/FSX, and I'm not even that into it like the majority of the of the community. As for the aircraft included in MSFS 2020, they're not study level, obviously. People in this genre want study level aircraft. They want PMDG, A2A, Majestic, FSLabs, and the others out there. There is a market for it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Not apples to oranges, but red apples to green apples.

 

You said: " The default scenery in FSX, P3D, and XP is highly lacking. Like big time." That's my point. If you get really high quality scenery everywhere, or even mostly everywhere, or even just in a lot of places, for $70 in FS2020 (not to mention the planes), how does that not put the major screws to companies charging that much just for one region or just one airport?

 

And yes, people want better planes than what comes stock. I never said otherwise. I bought lots of planes for FS9 & FSX. A2A and CaptainSim mostly. But then who will want to pay $50 - $70 for a study level plane and fly it in P3D or XP when they can get the same study level plane and fly it in the FS2020 world, given the radical enhancements of the FS2020 world? Paying top dollar for any P3D or XP add-on, even if a comparable product is a year away in FS2020, will fast become a "why would I do that?" question. There's no future proofing when paying money for destined obsolescence.  

 

To my point; will the scenery companies lower prices permanently and perhaps drastically, or will they still want $70 to do what FS2020 does comparatively for $0.70? I'm curious if some will stubbornly stick to their guns and watch sales fall rather than lower prices.

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6 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

for $70 in FS2020

 

Uh uh.  Sixty bucks.

 

The more I see of this the more I agree with Seawolf ;  this is going to be the Dreadnought of flight-simming.  Overnight everything else is going to become obsolete - including Google Earth!:)

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26 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Uh uh.  Sixty bucks.

 

The more I see of this the more I agree with Seawolf ;  this is going to be the Dreadnought of flight-simming.  Overnight everything else is going to become obsolete - including Google Earth!:)

 

$80Cdn. We have the weak tea of money.

 

Agreed, P3D and XP are toast. But I understand the pain of someone who has $1000+ invested in one of the older sims and is about to see it all rendered "yesterday's news". If FS2020 released a WWII module or a "Modern Fighters" add-on, "beeg badabooms!" included, I can't say I wouldn't pass a thought to the $1000 I've spent on IL2 and DCS and how those sims would not gather virtual cobwebs.

 

But for us that's a ways off. For P3D and XP, it may be less than a month.

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It is as if a dream comes true. The entire world available in a flight sim in high resolution, densily populated and highly detailed.

 

Flying over the Amazonas at tree top level, landing your plane on the Kim-Il-Sung Square in Pyongyang, aerobatics in the Grand Canyon, sightseeing over Venice at sunrise, following the meandering Chnese Wall, try to find your own house.

 

The planes in their plane list are unfamiliar to me. I hope the list contains a waterplane.

Would be nice to take of from Lake Ontario and heading to the Niagara Falls. I have no clue if waterfalls are animated anyway...

 

23 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

$80Cdn. We have the weak tea of money.

 

Agreed, P3D and XP are toast. But I understand the pain of someone who has $1000+ invested in one of the older sims and is about to see it all rendered "yesterday's news". If FS2020 released a WWII module or a "Modern Fighters" add-on, "beeg badabooms!" included, I can't say I wouldn't pass a thought to the $1000 I've spent on IL2 and DCS and how those sims would not gather virtual cobwebs.

 

But for us that's a ways off. For P3D and XP, it may be less than a month.

 

I think that after having played FS2020 and going back to IL2 BOX for some boom 'n' zoom, strafing, bombing or dogfighting the difference wiill be huge.

From a fully populated Europe to the green emptiness of BOBP is quite a transition. Despite the fun of rocketing everything to smithereens.

Edited by Uufflakke
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18 minutes ago, Uufflakke said:

 

I think that after having played FS2020 and going back to IL2 BOX for some boom 'n' zoom, strafing, bombing or dogfighting the difference wiill be huge.

From a fully populated Europe to the green emptiness of BOBP is quite a transition. Despite the fun of rocketing everything to smithereens.

 

I think you're right. Your Dreadnought analogy was right on.

 

Took a look at the ORBX site and a lot of stuff is on sale for about 25% off. And it's not a "summer sale" or anything, I think it's a "please buy it at 25% off and don't wait for the 75% off" sale. Don't get me wrong, ORBX makes gorgeous stuff, but if it's yesterday's stuff, then that's that.

 

IL2 and DCS will definitely be taking a back seat for a while after August 18th. I might spend two-weeks just flying across Canada. One thing I used to do in FSX and will definitely do in FS2020 is listen to lectures while flying. I love doing that. Take off for a nice flight, and have a history or philosophy lecture playing on the headphones, just audible over the engine. (I'm a wild party animal so I can handle that level of fun.) 

 

And if there's a a shot of whiskey on the table as well, so be it. :cool:

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42 minutes ago, Uufflakke said:

me. I hope the list contains a waterplane.

Would be nice to take of from Lake Ontario and heading

Icon A 5 

I hope caravan will have a seaplane version. They did add that in previous. 
and maybe a cessna version

2677CDE2-E556-4E54-ACA7-9003706B116D.jpeg

14 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

IL2 and DCS will definitely be taking a back seat

I think not for my sake. I rather spend time with Tobruk than too much on 2020 until trackir at least are implemented 

you see TrackIr is addictive. 

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17 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Icon A 5 

I hope caravan will have a seaplane version. They did add that in previous. 
and maybe a cessna version

 

I think not for my sake. I rather spend time with Tobruk than too much on 2020 until trackir at least are implemented 

you see TrackIr is addictive. 

 

I'll have to get some kind of track view going. But as I don't have it and FS2020 doesn't use it for now, I'll be in 2020 first and foremost.

 

I would like a DeHavilland Beaver and a Twin Otter. I'd do the world in those two planes.

 

And an F-104 of course. 

 

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1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

I would like a DeHavilland Beaver and a Twin Otter. I'd do the world in those two planes.

 

Beaver and twin otter is my favorites too. 
Twin Otter I sat as a passanger a lot before. I true shame they stopped flying in Norway. 

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I am wondering ai traffic. I know that there will be ai traffic but are those planes limited same planes that are playable, same with liveries. Do we need to wait proper ai add-on that will add new planes and realistic liveries like before.

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6 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

 

I'll have to get some kind of track view going. But as I don't have it and FS2020 doesn't use it for now, I'll be in 2020 first and foremost.

 

I would like a DeHavilland Beaver and a Twin Otter. I'd do the world in those two planes.

 

And an F-104 of course. 

 

Ha ha this is the second time I'm agreeing with you on this sim in as many days almost.

 

The Beaver was the first plane I bought on XPlane 11, and have been doing a route planned from where I live in the UK to Australia, although I've had a pause in central Europe for some time.  Just love the plane

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11 hours ago, Uufflakke said:

@Detcord12B,

 

I noticed the strangely shaped 'column trees' along the coastline of Naples.

It is still WIP and they might find a fix for it. But what does it look beautiful all together.

 

Lots of terrain issues to be sure.

 

10 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

 

 

 

Not apples to oranges, but red apples to green apples.

 

You said: " The default scenery in FSX, P3D, and XP is highly lacking. Like big time." That's my point. If you get really high quality scenery everywhere, or even mostly everywhere, or even just in a lot of places, for $70 in FS2020 (not to mention the planes), how does that not put the major screws to companies charging that much just for one region or just one airport?

 

And yes, people want better planes than what comes stock. I never said otherwise. I bought lots of planes for FS9 & FSX. A2A and CaptainSim mostly. But then who will want to pay $50 - $70 for a study level plane and fly it in P3D or XP when they can get the same study level plane and fly it in the FS2020 world, given the radical enhancements of the FS2020 world? Paying top dollar for any P3D or XP add-on, even if a comparable product is a year away in FS2020, will fast become a "why would I do that?" question. There's no future proofing when paying money for destined obsolescence.  

 

To my point; will the scenery companies lower prices permanently and perhaps drastically, or will they still want $70 to do what FS2020 does comparatively for $0.70? I'm curious if some will stubbornly stick to their guns and watch sales fall rather than lower prices.

 

I meant that it was apples to oranges with regards to the likes of FSX, P3D, and XP whence compared to FS 2020. I think we misunderstood each other. Or I misunderstood you... Still, as pointed out, the scenery in 2020 has topography and elevation issues that'll likely remain given the monumental task of visually IDing them and then conducting hand-jammed corrections, cause that's what it will take due to the way the algorithm renders everything. 

 

Agreed though, the third-party scenery scene for the likes of Orbx and RESENTIUM and others is more or less done with this iteration. There's no need for their large scale products in a photogrammetry rendered world. Sure, there's still gonna be a market in which FlyTampa, Flightbeam, Aerosoft and others can operate via airport addons, but the era of massive terrain, mesh, and RTV overhauls is over. Unless of course MSFS 2020 turns out to be more like the dud that was Microsoft Flight than FSX or XP... That's a scary thought.

 

EDIT - That said, I don't think 2020 in anyway renders the likes of XP and P3D as dead-end products and they are by no means obsolete, yet. Personally speaking I can't wait to try it out and have already pre-ordered the PD edition.

Edited by DetCord12B
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54 minutes ago, DetCord12B said:

Unless of course MSFS 2020 turns out to be more like the dud that was Microsoft Flight than FSX or XP... That's a scary thought.

 

 

If they screw the pooch on this, it will go down in history as one of the great gaming pooch screwings of all time. Cliffs of Dover to the 'nth degree.

 

My guess is it will not be. My guess is solidly more positive than negative.

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42 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

If they screw the pooch on this, it will go down in history as one of the great gaming pooch screwings of all time. Cliffs of Dover to the 'nth degree.

 

 

Gonna be hard to beat Anthem or Andromeda.

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1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

 

If they screw the pooch on this, it will go down in history as one of the great gaming pooch screwings of all time. Cliffs of Dover to the 'nth degree.

 

My guess is it will not be. My guess is solidly more positive than negative.

 

We're both civil sim cats, so we're both optimistic. Cautiously at least. But! As a study level Airbus guy I can't wait to jump into the cockpit of the NEO. I know it won't have all the bells and whistles but it'll still be fun, hopefully.

 

One thing I haven't heard about are PSD templates for the stock aircraft. I need to get back into painting commercial liveries.

 

qioFLNQ.jpg

 

woteSIr.jpg

 

VividLandscape-1-scaled.jpg

Edited by DetCord12B

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26 minutes ago, Tycoon said:

Gonna be hard to beat Anthem or Andromeda.

 

I'm not up on those.

 

Quality pooch screwings?

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14 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

I'm not up on those.

 

Quality pooch screwings?

 

Andromeda failed because of Anthem and due to the engine forced upon both of them.

 

EA/BioWare dumped the project on the B-Team (Montreal Studio) to shift focus exclusively to Anthem, and both titles suffered because of this decision.

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22 minutes ago, DetCord12B said:

 

 

 

EA/BioWare dumped the project on the B-Team (Montreal Studio) to shift focus exclusively to Anthem, and both titles suffered because of this decision.

When you climb the mountain of death and destruction to find the cause, you find out EA has been sitting at the top all along.

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I think the only way they can screw it up is by demanding a cut from contributors in the third-party addon industry.

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25 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

I think the only way they can screw it up is by demanding a cut from contributors in the third-party addon industry.

That’s a done deal. In the GUI hit the ‘market’ tab to select your add on.  I’ve no idea whether this is a good or bad thing but in our part of the games market this is the business model of DCS too.  In the console world this is business as normal.  

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3 hours ago, Tektolnes said:

Somebody just posted a NDA breaking full point to point flight which is something a lot of people have wanted to see as we've mostly seen just snippets so far. Looks fab:

 

https://m.bilibili.com/video/BV1ba4y1a7Bp

 

Will the Microsoft Police arrest us for watching? :unsure:

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This guy is posting these videos for a while now. I guess Asobo does not mind, since he does a good job. He has a video of an airplane parked at an airport at night, with a storm and lightning on the horizon, and it’s amazing. I hope that the strengths of the sim far outweigh the weaknesses, especially as there must be a considerable development in the first year or so.

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It's not a very recent video, because with the latest versions your username will pop-up at random all over the screen and not as in this video in a few fixed positions..

 

Graphics are great, but be aware that when you model the whole earth there is no way you can have the same fidelity everywhere. Down low you will always see weird little anomalies: cut-outs in the terrain, incorrect roads, vehicles painted on the road etc. And buildings aren't all modeled using 3d photography. By default a building is based on a 2d outline taken from a map and then a 3d object is put there following the 2d contour using some algorithm. So on the spot where your house is, there will be a house, but not your house :) . 

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4 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

It's not a very recent video, because with the latest versions your username will pop-up at random all over the screen and not as in this video in a few fixed positions..

 

Graphics are great, but be aware that when you model the whole earth there is no way you can have the same fidelity everywhere. Down low you will always see weird little anomalies: cut-outs in the terrain, incorrect roads, vehicles painted on the road etc. And buildings aren't all modeled using 3d photography. By default a building is based on a 2d outline taken from a map and then a 3d object is put there following the 2d contour using some algorithm. So on the spot where your house is, there will be a house, but not your house :) . 

You're not a real flight simmer unless you remodel your house to match the FS2020 algorithm. 

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17 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

You're not a real flight simmer unless you remodel your house to match the FS2020 algorithm. 

 

LOL, in my case I would lose 2 floors so I rather keep mine ! ;) 

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The guy posting the 'NDA' footage should be banned, sued etc etc.

But because ... It all looks all so ... booooring to me.

Long live IL-2 with the kuban map, DCS with the caucasus map ... !

Reason is plain simple : FS2020 is only a sim ... no matter how nice its scenery can be.

IL-2, CloD and DCS OTOH are sims + games ... feeling more alive and thus far more interesting (to me personally anyway).

I am curious how long it may take posters here checking out FS2020 ... getting bored with it in no time ? 🙂

Edited by simfan2015
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14 hours ago, Tycoon said:

When you climb the mountain of death and destruction to find the cause, you find out EA has been sitting at the top all along.

 

 

1 hour ago, simfan2015 said:

But because ... It all looks all so ... booooring to me.

Long live IL-2 with the kuban map, DCS with the caucasus map ... !

Reason is plain simple : FS2020 is only a sim ... no matter how nice its scenery can be.

IL-2, CloD and DCS OTOH are sims + games ... feeling more alive and thus far more interesting (to me personally anyway).

I am curious how long it may take posters here checking out FS2020 ... getting bored with it in no time ? 🙂

 

People were playing the MS Flight Sim and the X Plane franchise long before DCS ever showed up.

 

I was part of a Virtual Airline that had more concurrent active members (7000+) than the entire player-base of DCS and IL-2 BoX combined. Now we can argue market-share to and fro to the end of time, but judging DCS and the civil aviation sims by third-party content is the biggest tell. Hell, the old school FSX has thousands of payware addons alone and this doesn't even take into account XP or P3D.

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4 minutes ago, DetCord12B said:

Hell, the old school FSX has thousands of payware addons alone and this doesn't even take into account XP or P3D.

I don't doubt this for a minute DetCord !

I will check the new FS2020 out too (who in fact here won't ??).

OTOH I, again personally, tried (older versions of) MS FS before ... yet am so glad there is IL-2 and DCS !

Maybe this time it is so different ... I sure hope so !

 

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4 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

The guy posting the 'NDA' footage should be banned, sued etc etc.

But because ... It all looks all so ... booooring to me.

Long live IL-2 with the kuban map, DCS with the caucasus map ... !

Reason is plain simple : FS2020 is only a sim ... no matter how nice its scenery can be.

IL-2, CloD and DCS OTOH are sims + games ... feeling more alive and thus far more interesting (to me personally anyway).

I am curious how long it may take posters here checking out FS2020 ... getting bored with it in no time ? 🙂

 

MSFS franchise has been around for a long, long time. Almost as long as PC-Gaming if not as long.

I would hazard a guess that they have a huge following that has been with them for many years, probably larger than any.

Granted it is a whole different game, but many want to be pilots and also pilots really dig it and will continue to do so.

 

If not for me being VR only now I would be all over this one. Keeping my fingers crossed for VR support sooner rather than later.

But for me, even with that- combat flight sims  will always be my first love.

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I probably will get around to buying MSFS2020 at some point, but I can't imagine it becoming my primary thing over combat flight simming any time soon, no matter how good it is.  I used to do a lot of MSFS stuff, but haven't touched it for years.  Recently I picked up X-Plane, which I think is very good and has some really excellent 3rd party airplanes.  It might act as an occasional change of pace from IL-2/DCS, and MSFS2020 might do the same, but I can't see switching from combat sims to civ sims as my main focus.  Honestly, and somewhat to my dismay, I found flying a simulated civilian aircraft from one airport to another was kind of boring these days compared to the stuff we do in combat sims.

 

 

Edited by SeaSerpent

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3 hours ago, dburne said:

 

MSFS franchise has been around for a long, long time. Almost as long as PC-Gaming if not as long.

I would hazard a guess that they have a huge following that has been with them for many years, probably larger than any.

 

Flight Simulator isn’t initially by Microsoft. I played version 2 on my father’s Atari ST, and IIRC the producer at the time was called Sublogic. Gaming on IBM PC compatibles was already possible, but it was quite terrible compared to what Atari and Commodore could do. I think that might have been around 1988 or earlier. 

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I wonder how many of their excellent joysticks Microsoft managed to shift over the years?

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3 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

I probably will get around to buying MSFS2020 at some point, but I can't imagine it becoming my primary thing over combat flight simming any time soon, no matter how good it is.  I used to do a lot of MSFS stuff, but haven't touched it for years.  Recently I picked up X-Plane, which I think is very good and has some really excellent 3rd party airplanes.  It might act as an occasional change of pace from IL-2/DCS, and MSFS2020 might do the same, but I can't see switching from combat sims to civ sims as my main focus.  Honestly, and somewhat to my dismay, I found flying a simulated civilian aircraft from one airport to another was kind of boring these days compared to the stuff we do in combat sims.

 

 

I'm betting he downloads it day one.:P

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9 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

Honestly, and somewhat to my dismay, I found flying a simulated civilian aircraft from one airport to another was kind of boring these days compared to the stuff we do in combat sims.

 

And that's the thing, it can be boring and often is flying from A to B but people love it. I love it. When you factor in weather, load, failures (emergencies), CDU/MCDU programing, pre-flights, takeoffs, cruising, changes on the fly, shared cockpit COOP problem solving, and all of the above calculations you have to do yourself it is and can be hellaciously fun. Yeah you're running numbers and flying the friendly skies in a bus, but to put yourself in the shoes of someone responsible for hundreds of virtual lives tends to change your outlook a bit, especially if things go awry. And especially if you're running addons like AirHauler that checks everything you do.
 

Quote

 

As an example, my mate Mick and I (of DCS fame) decided to do a hop (shared-cockpit) in the 319 a ways back in P3D. Something quick between ENGM and ENBR. En route we suffered a lightening strike during a NOR squall that killed the port engine and there was no restarting it due to the way it simulates complex failures, and this was catastrophic. In fact the addon itself is used in Airbus pilot training but that's neither here nor there.

 

The port engine died. There was no way of restarting it. And a potential port COLAX fire was also present, though the sensors were melting we couldn't tell but knew because of. I mean if the sensors poop-the-bed after a heat warning and then stop responding hey, that's probably it. But we, he and I, troubleshot the entire thing from top to bottom via the real Airbus manual, because that's what was included in the addon as opposed to a game manual...

 

 

  • An F-22 has an estimated two million lines of code.
  • The modern commercial airliner has between 22-97 million lines of code.

Regardless of automation, which one is potentially more difficult to fly, maintain, train, manipulate, and problem solve via a massive variety of potential issues?

 

Mick and I made it though!

AcK7T0q.png

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Never played any of civilian flight sims, but when I started playing DCS 6 years ago I discovered that I enjoyed "clickability" and interaction with systes more than combat aspects of the sim. So, ironically, Digital Combat Simulator turned me into a non-combat flight simmer and most of my flying in DCS and Il-2 nowadays is just flying for the sake of flying :D. Thus I'm looking at this new MS offering with quite a bit of interest.

 

As for the addon makers, I'd say the ones specializing in airport and city addons will continue to function just fine simply because bing maps service doesn't have comparable quality of world coverage to Google maps. On the teaser vids we've seen examples of locations with the best modelling, obviously, but when I saw a couple of months ago a screenshot made by one of Alpha testers, showing the center of freakin' capital city of my country, with low res terrain texture, only one hand-made famous building and a couple of auto-gen ones not even close to the look and locations of their real counterparts, it became clear that even this sim will still require 3rd party addons to get desired accuracy in chosen regions.

 

I'll keep an eye on post-release reviews though, 'cause it still might become my primary sim in the future (as soon as A2A port their warbirds to the new platform).

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36 minutes ago, Art-J said:

I'll keep an eye on post-release reviews though, 'cause it still might become my primary sim in the future (as soon as A2A port their warbirds to the new platform).

 

A2A unfortunately seem to be in no hurry to move to MSFS2020. They look to be concentrating more on their real aircraft and military contracts. They might get around to working on MSFS2020 at some point but I wouldn't expect it to be anytime soon. 

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Yup, the startup process in DCS is badass (P-51 especially). I still like the dogfighting aspect of the game, but above all I like to fly these planes. I will not get bored in MSFS2020, that's for sure. They just have to support TrackIR soon enough and the sim to have some stability and performance, and the talks is that performance is not a problem.

 

The dollar exchange is skyrocketing in my country, but it everything goes well after the release, I need to get a RTX 3000 series.

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