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Fang333333

Are Campaign Missions Rigged?

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OK guys,

 

I've been a member for awhile. I flew and accomplished the campaign back when it wasn't "Dynamic". Throughout the years I have noticed that missions seem to have a predetermined outcome. I am not going to go through the continuing AI issues, failed mission objective spawns or other issues we have sadly become accustomed to (Yes I love Il-2 but I am bitter that we will never get AI improvements). Anyhoo, I want to focus specifically on this weird Groundhogs Day nightmare'. 

 

I noticed that when I constantly refly a mission, the same kind of damage happens, almost exactly the same way in the same timing. I'll give you my current campaign nightmare as an example. It is a poorly ran mission as usual, mission objectives appearing late, bad wingman AI and generally I am completely outnumbered. I take off. Intercept some bombers and BOOP dead. Instant Kill. Not sure from what or whom because it is an INSTANT kill. Happens about 10 minutes into mission. OK...

Restart.

Preflight. Takeoff. Intercept bombers (completely differently I might add). Boop. Instant Kill. Same way, about the same time into mission.

THIRD TIME.

Preflight. Takoff. Intercept-BOOP- Dead. Yup same way.

FOURTH TIME.... You get the idea and no I am not kidding.

It is important and even more peculiar to note that the same exact damage was dealt by a ground enemy as opposed to a bandit. In other words, I switched from getting an instant kill from the air AI, but instead traded it for the same instant kill from the ground. It does not matter who "pulls the trigger", the damage theme will be the same for that mission.

 

There are so many missions I have recorded throughout the years with this weird (issue?). My previous mission I was stuck with a similar situation except without any mission objective spawns. Instead of an instant kill it was a coolant hit or Fuel leak. 45 into the minutes. OVER AND OVER. Although the damage may not be the same, it is the same TYPE of damage. For example I can go back and forth between a coolant leak/damage and fuel leak. They are the same kind of damage, not downing me immediately but limiting my flight time. Other missions may focus on a KILLING the engine over and over again.

 

ANOTHER example... In setup takoff certain fuesalage armor and watch how the computer all of a sudden starts hitting that are more than it was before. When I remove Glass armor I find my cockpit gets hit more by AI. (Now to be fair I have not tested this in a long time, I just remember one day not being able to fly without AI headshots until I put it back on.)

 

It is like the sim is an RPG that has themed outcomes. 

THIS IS A PROBLEM. I have noticed it to the point of actually freaking people out with my death predictions. If you do not believe me I charge $20 per minute for my psychic abilities, prepare to be amazed!

 

It does not always happen, it is more like the sim decided to have what I call "FU Missions". I can have a series of great mission's and then all of a sudden one mission I get stuck with the same outcome until I get lucky. It's like the sim deemed this mission to be a fail for me. 

 

OR IF I RESTART THE SIM. Then I get a different outcome, not always but usually.

Lastly I have noticed this on now 3 different systems.

Perhaps instead of being "rigged" I should call it "Damage Theming"...

 

Sorry for the long post, but thanks for letting me rant.

 

Fang

Edited by Fang333333
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Salutations,

 

You might appreciate Patrick Wilsons Campaign Generator. PWCG.

 

Patrick is constantly updating and improving his campaign generator. With it you can configure your own campaign. :salute:

 

PWCG

Edited by Thad
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I like that! I have to get into that, I meant to but I fell in love with Coconuts Campaign...

 

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When rise of flight made their campaign, it was the coolest thing for me, feeing like I was part of a squadron back on ww1 and flying day to day missions with newspaper articles weekly... pretty cool..

 

then IL-2 came out with the same one, it’s pretty cool still but I feel it’s very flawed, more like a way to get use to the game... should be more of a training aid.

 

patrick Wilson’s campaign generator hits the mark for me, I just wish it was implemented into the game. 

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I never experienced Rise of Flights system, sounds wonderful!

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for the "new" Campaign. I too feel that it is lacking too much. It feels like the same 3 missions without any form of accomplishment. It's very formulaic and basic.I always want to see new improvements in the developers notes and I am always disappointed when there is not.

It's a bummer to see little to no effort being put into what should be the core of the sim.

Edited by Fang333333

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1 hour ago, Fang333333 said:

I never experienced Rise of Flights system, sounds wonderful!

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for the "new" Campaign. I too feel that it is lacking too much. It feels like the same 3 missions without any form of accomplishment. It's very formulaic and basic.I always want to see new improvements in the developers notes and I am always disappointed when there is not.

It's a bummer to see little to no effort being put into what should be the core of the sim.

You must not read them too often since they hired a new AI programmer to work on the AI. Seemed to have missed that one. And no, the missions aren't predetermined.

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While I do consider the present career mode to be decent, I also think that it still has lot's of undeveloped potential.

 

Would be nice if these would be addressed by the devs some day.

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Real quick question, can someone tell me if it is normal for Pats campaign to take a REALLY long time to load a mission?

All my other missions loaded fine but Pats literally takes a few solid minutes stuck on the loading screen.

 

Also, where do I put the music file for pats and what does it do?

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Can't say that they're rigged, but they're terribly repetitive. For fighters: bomber/ground attack escort, bomber/ground attack intercept, river crossing/ground troops cover, river crossing/ground troops attack, with some occasional free hunt. No air superiority, no recon, no scramble. All missions per type have the same scenario. For example crossing/ground troops cover: you fly to a designated area, fly in circles above the target, then enemy planes spawn. When you see the type of the upcoming mission, you can 100% predict what would happen. Even 1946 Dgen campaigns feel more immersive. They have some sort of variety in briefings mentioning some details like cities, etc, not the same template text as in GB. They have debriefings that reflect how well you performed in the mission. There was frontline movement.

You can wait for whatever next theater, but it won't be much fun if in the end you'll get same old repetitive missions in the career. Yeah, I'm looking forward for the Bodenplatte release and whatever next theater is gonna be, I'll buy it, but what I really want so see is further major improvements in the Career system.

There are some amazing scripted campaigns for sure, made both by devs and community, but the ability to start from early period of the war, fly variety of planes, move on to the later stages, have you own story of your virtual character - only dynamic campaign can give all that.

Edited by Arthur-A
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11 minutes ago, Arthur-A said:

Can't say that they're rigged, but they're terribly repetitive. For fighters: bomber/ground attack escort, bomber/ground attack intercept, river crossing/ground troops cover, river crossing/ground troops attack, with some occasional free hunt. No air superiority, no recon, no scramble. All missions per type have the same scenario. For example crossing/ground troops cover: you fly to a designated area, fly in circles above the target, then enemy planes spawn. When you see the type of the upcoming mission, you can 100% predict what would happen. Even 1946 Dgen campaigns feel more immersive. They have some sort of variety in briefings mentioning some details like cities, etc, not the same template text as in GB. They have debriefings that reflect how well you performed in the mission. There was frontline movement.

You can wait for whatever next theater, but it won't be much fun if in the end you'll get same old repetitive missions in the career. Yeah, I'm looking forward for the Bodenplatte release and whatever next theater is gonna be, I'll buy it, but what I really want so see is further major improvements in the Career system.

There are some amazing scripted campaigns for sure, made both by devs and community, but the ability to start from early period of the war, fly variety of planes, move on to the later stages, have you own story of your virtual character - only dynamic campaign can give all that.

 

Thanks Arthur I agree 100%. It pains me to see how cool all the previous releases were (I never played them). Very surprising to see that this later edition to the series has what basically is a sandbox theater. Very bland sadly. We hope to see something exciting in the career aspect from the developer.

 

As for now, can anyone quickly tell me if it is normal for Pats career to Load exceptionally long? My Missions for Pat's takes minutes to load! Normal?

 

Also, what do I do with the music file and what does it do? 

 

Fang

 

 

Edited by Fang333333

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25 minutes ago, Fang333333 said:

Real quick question, can someone tell me if it is normal for Pats campaign to take a REALLY long time to load a mission?

All my other missions loaded fine but Pats literally takes a few solid minutes stuck on the loading screen.

 

Also, where do I put the music file for pats and what does it do?

 

Load times are long.  Half is probably because they are text instead of binary.  The other half is lots of stuff.  I have noticed that almost all of the load time is after the bar is close to 100%.  Wish I knew what it was stalled on - something I can figure out with time.

 

The music file unzips into the PWCGCampaign directory.  When you are done you should have PWCGCampaign\Audio.  The music was composed by Matt Milne - professional stuff and extremely good.  I'm not sure what I did to rate that but I am grateful to Matt for doing it.  Music is controlled by configs on the main screen.

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I’ve not noticed repetition in the Career Mode, much to the contrary there’s a great amount of variety in the action. Never experienced anything like the OP

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45 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Load times are long.  Half is probably because they are text instead of binary.  The other half is lots of stuff.  I have noticed that almost all of the load time is after the bar is close to 100%.  Wish I knew what it was stalled on - something I can figure out with time.

 

Hello Pat! Thanks for this clear answer, I was getting kinda worried I was in store for hours of troubleshooting! I can't wait to try out the music. I am pretty excited about your work, it already seems to offer more "Variety" in the missions. I was also wondering if it would ever be possible to install a monetary system in the campaign? Like perhaps every kill or accomplished mission could rack up a kind of credit that could be used for maintaining planes, purchasing armor, even getting planes unlocked? 

I probably am the only one who would dig this feature, but I was just curious.

 

Anyway, thank you so much for making something we can all enjoy in place of the campaign! I am constantly blown away by how great our Il-2 community is! I only wish I could help more...

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Missions in the default campaigns can get predictable enough that it often feels like you could see the puppet strings being pulled. Or recognizing a TV Trope as it happens. 

 

Kinda takes away the magic once you know what the triggers are. Like that thing with the mission where you provide cover for ground troops. Back then I remember I always flew with absolute certainty that once I finish time on station, only then will the enemy strike package come to interdict. I don't know if this was fixed recently; I've learned to  always reassign these missions. 

 

You're probably just starting to see how the missions are built. Choosing PWCG for a breath of fresh air was a good idea.

 

I only ever come back to default campaigns when I'm starved for time and need missions in as little clicks as possible.

 

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13 minutes ago, Fang333333 said:

I was also wondering if it would ever be possible to install a monetary system in the campaign? Like perhaps every kill or accomplished mission could rack up a kind of credit that could be used for maintaining planes, purchasing armor, even getting planes unlocked? 

I probably am the only one who would dig this feature, but I was just curious.

Hahaha you would have enjoyed the original IL-2 BoS campaign! 😆

It had all that. 

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1 hour ago, Arthur-A said:

whatever next theater is gonna be, I'll buy it, but what I really want so see is further major improvements in the Career system.
 

I  wholeheartedly agree! :good:

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21 minutes ago, Fang333333 said:

 

 Like perhaps every kill or accomplished mission could rack up a kind of credit that could be used for maintaining planes, purchasing armor, even getting planes unlocked? 

I probably am the only one who would dig this feature, but I was just curious.

 

You are the only one in the solar system who thinks such a thing is anything but awful...well you and the guy who thought of it in the original BoS.

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On 9/12/2019 at 6:52 AM, Thad said:

You might appreciate Patrick Wilsons Campaign Generator. PWCG.

Would be awesome if this generator could be extended  to incorporate Flying Circus!

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I think Pat plans just that after the FC map is available. :salute:

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49 minutes ago, Gretsch_Man said:

Would be awesome if this generator could be extended  to incorporate Flying Circus!

 

It will be,  Need a map and some WWI ground objects.

@MarderIV IMHO the biggest advantage of PWCG missions is the fact that all flights move all the time.  They do not sit at a spot waiting to trigger.  I did this with a system that I call Virtual Way Points.  Every flight has a set of WPs.  VWPs are moving spawn points that track the actual WPs.  Once spawned all further spawn points for the flight are disabled, the flight spawns, and then follows actual WPs starting with the correct one based on where they are at in terms of the virtual WPs..  What this means for the player is that the planes can come to you as well as you going to them.  You can play the same mission and get entirely different results by flying a different path or at different speed.  If you are engaged in combat an enemy flight might come upon you.  

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24 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

It will be,  Need a map and some WWI ground objects.

@MarderIV IMHO the biggest advantage of PWCG missions is the fact that all flights move all the time.  They do not sit at a spot waiting to trigger.  I did this with a system that I call Virtual Way Points.  Every flight has a set of WPs.  VWPs are moving spawn points that track the actual WPs.  Once spawned all further spawn points for the flight are disabled, the flight spawns, and then follows actual WPs starting with the correct one based on where they are at in terms of the virtual WPs..  What this means for the player is that the planes can come to you as well as you going to them.  You can play the same mission and get entirely different results by flying a different path or at different speed.  If you are engaged in combat an enemy flight might come upon you.  

 

Paul Lowengrin does a similar sort of thing with his DCG utility for IL2-1946. You guys don't get enough credit for really enhancing other's products and making far more dynamic and living campaign generation. Thanks for all you do with your outstanding PWCG Patrick! - the game wouldn't be the same without it! :good: We gotta put you in the outstanding dynamic campaign maker club with Paul Lowengrin, OBD Software (Wings Over...), and the original Falcon 4. 🏆

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On 9/13/2019 at 12:08 AM, Redwo1f said:

 

Paul Lowengrin does a similar sort of thing with his DCG utility for IL2-1946. You guys don't get enough credit for really enhancing other's products and making far more dynamic and living campaign generation. Thanks for all you do with your outstanding PWCG Patrick! - the game wouldn't be the same without it! :good: We gotta put you in the outstanding dynamic campaign maker club with Paul Lowengrin, OBD Software (Wings Over...), and the original Falcon 4. 🏆

 

Fully agree on that!!

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On 9/13/2019 at 2:38 AM, Arthur-A said:

Can't say that they're rigged, but they're terribly repetitive. For fighters: bomber/ground attack escort, bomber/ground attack intercept, river crossing/ground troops cover, river crossing/ground troops attack, with some occasional free hunt. No air superiority, no recon, no scramble. All missions per type have the same scenario. For example crossing/ground troops cover: you fly to a designated area, fly in circles above the target, then enemy planes spawn. When you see the type of the upcoming mission, you can 100% predict what would happen. Even 1946 Dgen campaigns feel more immersive. They have some sort of variety in briefings mentioning some details like cities, etc, not the same template text as in GB. They have debriefings that reflect how well you performed in the mission. There was frontline movement.

You can wait for whatever next theater, but it won't be much fun if in the end you'll get same old repetitive missions in the career. Yeah, I'm looking forward for the Bodenplatte release and whatever next theater is gonna be, I'll buy it, but what I really want so see is further major improvements in the Career system.

There are some amazing scripted campaigns for sure, made both by devs and community, but the ability to start from early period of the war, fly variety of planes, move on to the later stages, have you own story of your virtual character - only dynamic campaign can give all that.

Best post in the whole thread here. The Dev´s should pin this on their blackboard.

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